The $25,000 question....

[Drew Dowdell]

So, with some life changes coming up, I am car shopping. I'm looking in the $25k range +/- a grand. Since the number of miles could potentially swing wildly opposite of what I do now (Less than 5k a year on my own car), I'm looking at high(er) mpg options, but a lower priced car that doesn't get the best mpg but has other convincing options is on the table too. I don't really want to go any smaller than Cruze/Verano

Here's what I'm looking at so far:

Passat TDI/DSG/Sunroof - about $25k after current incentives

Cruze Diesel - $26k

Verano Leather Group + sunroof - $26k

200 V6 + sunroof and upper UConnect - $20k after current incentives

(Used) 300 V6 + 8speed + UConnect - Typically around the low $20ks off the Enterprise lot (really not a fan of the Charger except in the absolutely loaded trims which won't come from Enterprise)

Fusion SE 1.6T with 205b and Sunroof - $24,600 after incentives.

What am I overlooking.. what else should I consider... which would you pick?

[regfootball]

All good choices.

Obviously the Vdub diesels make sense from mpg standpoint, and the Passat is roomy. You wouldn't be giving that up. I think personally the Passat is a bit cheap inside.

Cruze diesel or Verano, can't go wrong.

I am surprised at your notice of the 200 but you did notice it's main draw right now. price, chrysler is giving them away. A good chance to burn miles for not much cost. The pentastar is a gem, and in an AWD Journey it will pull close to 30 mpg in some cases (my own experiences). Imagine with FWD only and less weight.

Used 300, good choice also.

The Fusion, the 2.0t is a huge gas hog, but the 1.6 is ok. Bring your fire extinguisher.

Mazda6? 38 highway mpg.

Not an idea you were expecting, but how about just a Malibu 2.5? Or, even a CPO pre 14 Impala with the 3.6? Find one with like 5k miles on it and drive the piss out of it! It may be the same idea in concept with the Chrysler 200. Just not as faux elegant. An ATS 2.5 RWD may end up being not far off 25k by the end of summer. Regals may be had cheap near end of model year also.

Me, I still want to find a Kizashi, of course not new anymore. The real world mpg is better than posted and AWD. Of course the big issue there is dealer network. The car is still covered with warranty very well if you find good in service date and most of the 100k powertrain. Of course the CVT may not be your cup of tea. You could maybe find a 2012 or 2013 SLS or GTS for a lot under 20 now. I don't think resale hit is going to be too bad as it's already taken enough of dive.

[pow]

What about Volt?

$39,995 MSRP

- $3,600 dealer discount

- $3,000 GM rebate

- $7,500 federal tax credit

- $3,000 PA state rebate (As of May 1, 2013, 422 rebates remain at $3,000)

$22,895 effective cost + 0% financing for 48 months + 3 cents per mile on electricity

And those are just private costs. Greater EV adoption will also generate knowledge spillovers (stimulates further innovation), network externalities (as more people drive EVs and need charging infrastructure, the more valuable this infrastructure becomes), and economies of scale (cheaper EVs for all).

[regfootball]

If you could do a 2 year high mileage lease on a Volt. Don't give all your money away for taxes and finance charges. Let GM and stuff take the first couple year hit and then give the car back. You don't want a used hybrid to unload anyways.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I'd go with the Passat, seems to tick many of the boxes and the price is definitely right.

[riviera74]

Get the 300: IMHO that is the best choice.

[daves87rs]

You're missing the Cruze Eco there. Those seems to be pulling some pretty good mpgs themselves..

[Drew Dowdell]

Not an idea you were expecting, but how about just a Malibu 2.5? Or, even a CPO pre 14 Impala with the 3.6? Find one with like 5k miles on it and drive the piss out of it! It may be the same idea in concept with the Chrysler 200. Just not as faux elegant. An ATS 2.5 RWD may end up being not far off 25k by the end of summer. Regals may be had cheap near end of model year also.

Me, I still want to find a Kizashi, of course not new anymore. The real world mpg is better than posted and AWD. Of course the big issue there is dealer network. The car is still covered with warranty very well if you find good in service date and most of the 100k powertrain. Of course the CVT may not be your cup of tea. You could maybe find a 2012 or 2013 SLS or GTS for a lot under 20 now. I don't think resale hit is going to be too bad as it's already taken enough of dive.

I've just soured on the Malibu too much and I've already had a 2.5 on one of my Pittsburgh-Columbus-Pittsburgh runs and only pulled 30mpg. I can and have done that in a Hemi 300c. No way on the Impala. Albert likes the Regal, but even CPO with low miles, they still pull $23k - $25k. If I'm spending that, I'll get a new Passat TDI and get the EmPeeGees also.

The local Suzuki dealer somehow has 160 Kasashi's left (unless that is a misprint) at $9600 off.

What about Volt?

$39,995 MSRP

- $3,600 dealer discount

- $3,000 GM rebate

- $7,500 federal tax credit

- $3,000 PA state rebate (As of May 1, 2013, 422 rebates remain at $3,000)

$22,895 effective cost + 0% financing for 48 months + 3 cents per mile on electricity

And those are just private costs. Greater EV adoption will also generate knowledge spillovers (stimulates further innovation), network externalities (as more people drive EVs and need charging infrastructure, the more valuable this infrastructure becomes), and economies of scale (cheaper EVs for all).

An interesting proposition and I do like the car. The only hit against it that I can see is that it would only be a MPG bonus locally... the TDIs are on the list for long distance cruise needs.

If you could do a 2 year high mileage lease on a Volt. Don't give all your money away for taxes and finance charges. Let GM and stuff take the first couple year hit and then give the car back. You don't want a used hybrid to unload anyways.

Leasing preferable for what I'm looking to do anyway (tax reasons)

Get the 300: IMHO that is the best choice.

Honestly, the 300 V6 + 8-speed is pretty close to the top of my list anyway. I keep going back to the Passat TDI for the mileage, though I do like them too... just not as much as the Chrysler. UConnect alone is a major selling point because it feels almost like a PDA that helps me get business done.

[Drew Dowdell]

You're missing the Cruze Eco there. Those seems to be pulling some pretty good mpgs themselves..

Cruze Eco was left off for a couple reasons, not the least of which is that I can't equip it the way I want. Power train definitely works for me though, but if I could equip it the way I want, it is almost Cruze diesel or Buick Verano territory anyway, so might as well get that.

[pow]

If you're leasing, I'd take a look at the E250 BlueTEC (4MATIC only for 2014). Not sure what your timeframe is, but they're supposed to come out in a few months. If their residuals are anywhere as good as the E350 BlueTEC's (74% for 2 year, 10k mi/yr lease), and the dealer is generous with discounts, then you should be able to lease one for no more than a normal family sedan.

Edited May 24, 2013 by pow

[Drew Dowdell]

Interesting and noted.... just concerned about the mileage and how much that will hurt the residual.

[Camino LS6]

Following this one without comment, but with some interest.

[BigPontiac]

Subaru BRZ. They have 2.9% financing right now too.

[Drew Dowdell]

While I like that car, it wouldn't work for what I'm going to using it for.

[ocnblu]

I love my Volkswagen TDi. It's perfect for my current life and situation.

[regfootball]

Couldn't fault you for going with a 300. That v6 plus 8 speed rocks I bet.

Isn't it outrageous how many car choices you have these days?

Would it seem as though you are leaning larger than smaller?

Edited May 25, 2013 by regfootball

[regfootball]

http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/chevrolet/2014-chevrolet-cruze-diesel-review-2637.html

Cruze diesel reviews are trickling in.

[ocnblu]

Autoblog has given a Cruze diesel review that seems just about right. The car is well done with a list of positive attributes to recommend it, and GM deserves praise for putting it in our market. But a Volkswagen Jetta TDi starts out less expensive, offers a choice of transmissions and trims, and delivers a sportier (by a good tad) driving experience. Plus it has all those millions of miles of Volkswagen diesel proof behind it.

This is a great opportunity for GM. I wish them success with the Cruze diesel... even if they are positioning it rather selfishly by packing it with profit-padding kit that some economy-minded shoppers might not be interested in.

The Passat is a huge car in comparison to the Cruze, and it would offer comparable real-world economy in a very competitively priced package. But I would not blame anyone for going with the Chevrolet. If GM trains their service providers properly...

[Drew Dowdell]

Couldn't fault you for going with a 300. That v6 plus 8 speed rocks I bet.

Isn't it outrageous how many car choices you have these days?

Would it seem as though you are leaning larger than smaller?

Yes. I prefer bigger cars to smaller, so if you want to break it down to the most basic selection criteria, I'm looking for the best combination of size + mpg + price.... and if I can get some luxury in there too, that would be good. As I mentioned in another thread, if I could get a Chrysler 300-D at a reasonable price, we'd not even be having this discussion.

http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/chevrolet/2014-chevrolet-cruze-diesel-review-2637.html

Cruze diesel reviews are trickling in.

Yeah, I gotta get on the list for that press car... after I finish all the reviews that have been piling up on my desk. I'm not sure I agree with that reviewer that the Jetta has a more stylish and better quality cabin than the Cruze... The Jetta, while not bad, is just all flat with really chinzy materials around. The Cruze uses better materials on average, there is more styling, and the size of the screen + MyLink is vastly superior to what VW uses.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you're leasing, I'd take a look at the E250 BlueTEC (4MATIC only for 2014). Not sure what your timeframe is, but they're supposed to come out in a few months. If their residuals are anywhere as good as the E350 BlueTEC's (74% for 2 year, 10k mi/yr lease), and the dealer is generous with discounts, then you should be able to lease one for no more than a normal family sedan.

The E350 Bluetech is currently running incentives close to $10k off sticker!? What is going on there?

[pow]

If you're leasing, I'd take a look at the E250 BlueTEC (4MATIC only for 2014). Not sure what your timeframe is, but they're supposed to come out in a few months. If their residuals are anywhere as good as the E350 BlueTEC's (74% for 2 year, 10k mi/yr lease), and the dealer is generous with discounts, then you should be able to lease one for no more than a normal family sedan.

The E350 Bluetech is currently running incentives close to $10k off sticker!? What is going on there?

Yup, apparently nobody wants diesel passenger cars. This is the deal my folks got December of last year:

...

(Sent you a PM, Drew. Anyone else who wants the details can PM me.)

Edited May 25, 2013 by pow

[G. David Felt]

Diesel here in Washington is $4.50 a gallon. They had better get great mileage for how pricey the fuel has become.

[ocnblu]

$3.56 here in my neck of the woods.

[regfootball]

Couldn't fault you for going with a 300. That v6 plus 8 speed rocks I bet.

Isn't it outrageous how many car choices you have these days?

Would it seem as though you are leaning larger than smaller?

Yes. I prefer bigger cars to smaller, so if you want to break it down to the most basic selection criteria, I'm looking for the best combination of size + mpg + price.... and if I can get some luxury in there too, that would be good. As I mentioned in another thread, if I could get a Chrysler 300-D at a reasonable price, we'd not even be having this discussion.

>>http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/chevrolet/2014-chevrolet-cruze-diesel-review-2637.html

Cruze diesel reviews are trickling in.

Yeah, I gotta get on the list for that press car... after I finish all the reviews that have been piling up on my desk. I'm not sure I agree with that reviewer that the Jetta has a more stylish and better quality cabin than the Cruze... The Jetta, while not bad, is just all flat with really chinzy materials around. The Cruze uses better materials on average, there is more styling, and the size of the screen + MyLink is vastly superior to what VW uses.

can we cut to the chase and just say the jetta interior is cheap all around, and lacks any style. The Cruze interior is a high, Jetta has more room. On all counts I think across the board Cruze and Jetta just are of different character. I don't think most typical VW's are trustworthy, the diesel may be the exception. What the diesel cruze is is GM basically going on attack vs. a VW stonghold. They know they need to start to do this here to be able to do it globally. Cruze was the best model to start with.

Jetta really is a half baked effort. BUt it does hit the heart of the market for someone who doesn't want a corolla.

I've examined several Impalas on lots over the last 3 days and I have come to conclusion that it blows the Passat out of the water as well. Unfortunately it's a bit more expensive than base Passats, and there is no diesel as a comparison. A large 4 pop diesel in the Impala would be the bomb.

Edited May 26, 2013 by regfootball

[smk4565]

Forget the small cars, the Passat TDI gets 42 mpg, that beats the little cars without having to suffer with a 1.4 liter 4-banger with 140 lb-ft. The Passat is also really big on the inside, compared to it's exterior footprint. My guess too is a loaded up TDI that is a a year or two old is under $25k.

I myself was going to look for a new car (well a used one) for $25k or less in the fall, I am sort of between the Genesis (due to the V8) and a 2009 E-class, because those seem cheaper than a 2009 C-class in most cases. I don't drive a lot of miles, so I was looking more for RWD and some performance and and luxury and mpg wasn't as big a concern for me.

E350 Bluetecs of the 2007-2009 era are under $25,000 and they do run forever and hold value. I saw a E350 bluetech with 226,000 miles on it for sale for $15,000, not worth it to me, but most cars are dead at 226,000 miles that one still has value. 2010 or newer E-class will be out of your budget though.

For FWD Family sedans I think the Optima, Fusion and Mazda 6 are all strong, but I suspect none of those are really what you are looking for, they are all pretty mass market and even though they are good, they still are a FWD appliance to some degree.

Chrysler 300's on the used market are cheap, I've seen 2012 Limiteds for under $25k. I personally wouldn't buy any Chrysler because I think they all fall apart, but you do get 290 hp, an 8-speed, 30 mpg, roomy interior and big car looks for a low price. But I like the Genesis more than the 300. Genesis coupe sucks though, it is really loud and unrefined, although it is quick.

Edited May 26, 2013 by smk4565

[smk4565]

There are 40 2012 Chrysler 300's for sale for $25,000 or less within 100 miles of Pittsburgh, most are Limited. Lots to choose from.

[smk4565]

If you ignore the MPG part of the equation, a 2004-2006 Mercedes S600 is under $25k, I've seen them for near $16k before. That is 4900 lbs and 17 feet of car for around $20k. Per pound it is cheaper than deli meat. Maintenance and fuel costs on a V12 though must be astronomical.

[pow]

If you ignore the MPG part of the equation, a 2004-2006 Mercedes S600 is under $25k, I've seen them for near $16k before. That is 4900 lbs and 17 feet of car for around $20k. Per pound it is cheaper than deli meat. Maintenance and fuel costs on a V12 though must be astronomical.

W220 is crap. I had the misfortune of having to drive a 2003 S430. Awful suspension, lousy interior, and the worst driving position I've had to deal with. It's like driving a school bus that you can't fit in or see out of.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you ignore the MPG part of the equation, a 2004-2006 Mercedes S600 is under $25k, I've seen them for near $16k before. That is 4900 lbs and 17 feet of car for around $20k. Per pound it is cheaper than deli meat. Maintenance and fuel costs on a V12 though must be astronomical.

LOL I like that!

Yeah, a friend of mine from rural Ohio had a 2005 S-class up until about 6 months ago.. he didn't like driving it in Pittsburgh, so when he came to town, we'd take his car but I would drive. It is definitely a car I like. His was the V8 though and I'd go that route for practicality. This will be a business car though, so I'm not sure tooling around in an S-Class while I'm just getting started is a good idea.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you ignore the MPG part of the equation, a 2004-2006 Mercedes S600 is under $25k, I've seen them for near $16k before. That is 4900 lbs and 17 feet of car for around $20k. Per pound it is cheaper than deli meat. Maintenance and fuel costs on a V12 though must be astronomical.

W220 is crap. I had the misfortune of having to drive a 2003 S430. Awful suspension, lousy interior, and the worst driving position I've had to deal with. It's like driving a school bus that you can't fit in or see out of.

Aren't there different suspensions? I like the softer rides anyway.. especially in pothole stricken Pittsburgh.

Following this one without comment, but with some interest.

I would have thought you'd have a comment.

[G. David Felt]

Some great deals on the last model year DTS. Cushy soft ride for you or go for a Buick.

[Drew Dowdell]

looking around at the DTSes, the 300 and 300C still seems to offer better deals

[Camino LS6]

I've been holding back on comments because I really don't care for any of the options very much - but I do find the process interesting.

On a side note, I drove a new beetle with the turbo and a manual yesterday and was impressed.

EDIT: A friend just bought it with only 7k miles on it for $18k - screaming bargain in my opinion.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Camino LS6

[smk4565]

A 2006 S-class is under $25,000 and that was the first year of the 7-speed transmission, and the S500's equipment list can rival any $60,000 2013 car. I am tempted by that car but they are really long, and if you spend a lot of time in parking lots or parking garages, that could be annoying. For my next car I want to go smaller and more agile than the Aurora, something mid-size.

Regarding the suspension, I think all S-classes have Airmatic, which has 3 settings. The S600 and AMG models had the hydraulic active body control added on which eliminates body roll.

I think if you like the Chrysler 300 more than the Passat you should do the 300, because what you lose in MPG, you can make up in the 300 being about $3000 cheaper on the used market than a Passat TDI is. The Pentastar V6 probably takes 87 octane too, so that would help.

[Drew Dowdell]

The S-class may be a bit ostentatious for what I'm going to be trying to do.

[frogger]

The Passat TDI and 300 are my choices. I like the 300 but at 5'9" and 150 I look like a little kid in one.

[Z-06]

Honda Accord Sport.

[Drew Dowdell]

Honda Accord Sport.

[Drew Dowdell]

Honda Accord Sport.

[G. David Felt]

I agree with Drew on the whole Honda thing!

[regfootball]

don't be silly guys, he is more of an Acura RLX kind of guy.

[Z-06]

Sarcasm aside. The car meets most of your requirements - 34 mpg highway, roomy inside, hell of a trunk space, good engine, (hell with the CVT get that 6-speed), no bells and whistles yet enough creature comforts all for around $24,000.

Honestly Honda is the only car maker that can build a slick 6-speed south of Porsche - even Porsche is slipping these days.

[Drew Dowdell]

But for $2k more I can get the Passat TDI and get 50mpg highway...

Keep in mind, sporty driving is not a priority for me. I like the cushy rides.

[Z-06]

That is if you pay MSRP on Accord. True car has it selling for $22,000 that is not the case for the Passat.

[G. David Felt]

Seems all the Passat TDI's I find in the Seattle area start from $26,000 and top out at $33,000 for a 1 year old low mileage model. I saw the TDI's Premium edition running higher. They seem to be pretty pricey auto's for a used auto compared to what you can get in other models from other brands.

[smk4565]

If every other car but the Prius, Mitsu Galant and Honda Accord got wiped off the earth, the Accord is a good idea. The Accord is just one step above a beige Camry, and buying a beige Camry is admitting you have given up on life.

You can get a used Passat TDI in southwestern PA for $25k or less, but they are harder to find. There are loads of Chrysler 300's to pick from at that price or cheaper. The Chrysler 300 is a bit obstentatious as well though.

[smk4565]

I did find a 2010 Mercedes Sprinter for $25,900, and that does have lots of room inside, and diesel mpg. But then I found this:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=15222&fuelCodes=DSL&endYear=2011&showcaseOwnerId=566795&startYear=2007&makeCode1=MB&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=300&maxPrice=27000&mmt=[MB[][]]&listingId=346347434&listingIndex=17&Log=0

It's all there, 3.0L turbo diesel with 398 lb-ft of torque fitted to a 7-speed automatic, 6-passenger, room for stuff, rear DVD, Sat-Nav, 2 sunroofs, AMG looking wheels.

[ocnblu]

Passat TDi it is then. Post pics as soon as you get it!

[Drew Dowdell]

well... I really think it's down to the 300 and the Passat... but a recent find is tilting me more in one direction over the other. I'm still waiting till I drive a Cruze diesel.

[regfootball]

there is still something about the Passat that screams cheap (to me). The top trims only have that feeling in scant percent.

Overall I think the 300 is classier.

I myself can't wait to drive the Cruze diesel.. I called a few dealers here and they said 'not till fall' WTF

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-cruze-diesel-first-drive-review

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1305_2014_chevrolet_cruze_diesel_first_drive/

Edited May 29, 2013 by regfootball