Do kids hate cars?

[regfootball]

http://www.insideline.com/features/do-kids-hate-cars.html

a great summation about where it's at...... phones are more important than cars..... and cars are not connecting with the young set, and they are too expensive, and probably not fun enough......

[vonVeezelsnider]

I was having just this same conversation with my dad maybe a month ago.

It's interesting how priorities and hobbies change with generations... It is plain to see for me as I observe my peers. Many people around my age (21-23) don't drive period, the ones that do seem to prefer appliances like the Civic or Corolla (if they have money it's the ubiquitous base model Silver 3-Series, White C-Class or Black A4) to anything interesting, be it American, German, Korean or Japanese . Then again lots of folks my age seem to me to lack the situational awareness that would make them safe drivers (perhaps this is also related in some way to phones, texting, technology replacing common sense- I could go on and on forever on this one).

I would agree that it's not connecting any more. I used to think think that I one of the things that made me an "old soul" was my taste in big american cars, but it has been becoming more and more apparent to me lately that it's maybe because I am into cars period. From where I sit my generation is, though in the presence of exceptions, becoming a subset of drones who are cripplingly beholden to societal 'norms', social trends, and blending in at all costs, lest, god forbid, someone realize you are a living breathing individual.

/rant

[regfootball]

this is a big problem for the auto industry..........

unless they want less revenue and fewer units sold......

[the_yellow_dart]

Of the roughly 15 good friends I have in my age group in Toronto, one has a car. Three have licenses. Transit is seen as the future and many of them don't understand why I drive.

[§carlet §wordfish]

In metropolitan areas I can understand why cars are becoming less relevant. But where I grew up and still live, where there is practically zero public transportation, cars are still very important to young people. My house and my friends' houses aren't in walking distance from ANYWHERE interesting. Even so, I didn't like learning to drive and put off getting my license until after I graduated high school. I was perfectly content riding in my parents' or friends' cars.

[CanadianBacon94]

Around here in northwestern Ontario people prefer trucks, People i know actually hate cars, and drive these

other than that close to the same situation as Mr. $wordfish i could see not having a vehicle in a city, but in small towns there is no public transit

Edited February 6, 2012 by CanadianBacon94

[Robert Hall]

I can't imagine living w/o a car, even in the city. I've lived downtown before in a city of 1/2 million people (Denver), but still had 2-3 cars. And in the suburbs or small towns or rural areas, public transit options are little to none. I'd hate to have to wait on a bus (though I did use the light rail often to get from the burbs to downtown and vice versa in Denver).

[Camino LS6]

Sad commentary.

[balthazar]

Just asked my son (17), he mulled it over & said 'phone'.

'I can always get a ride'...

[FAPTurbo]

Sad commentary.

No it's not.

[Robert Hall]

Reality, circa 2012. People are so dumbed down that in another decade or so, will there be anyone under 30 in the US that can even operate a manual transmission?

Edited February 7, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[FAPTurbo]

With the financial situations you've been in, I think this article is right on the nose.

[Intrepidation]

Reality, circa 2012. People are so dumbed down that in another decade or so, will there be anyone under 30 in the US that can even operate a manual transmission?

It's not dumbed down. I don't know if anyone here has noticed lately. but the economy isn't in great shape. Especially if you don't need a car, it makes perfect sense not to take on the financial responsibility of owning one. From payments, to insurance, to maintenance. It costs a lot of money to have a car, and if you live in an era where public transit is a viable option, there's not a real need for it.

Plus, it works well for those of us to do enjoy our cars. Remember that statistics show that 16-18 year olds have the highest accident rate of any rage group. Having less of them on the road is just fine by me.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Guys, in a century, cars are going to be about as common as horse-drawn carriages are now. And they'll have the same romanticism associated with them. There will always be people who like to drive, but it's incredibly naîve to believe that the motor car is the pinnacle of personal transportation.

[Robert Hall]

Guys, in a century, cars are going to be about as common as horse-drawn carriages are now. And they'll have the same romanticism associated with them. There will always be people who like to drive, but it's incredibly naîve to believe that the motor car is the pinnacle of personal transportation.

In the future, maybe it will be like the Matrix...resource units just plug in and provide energy to the computers...

As far as driving less, I wouldn't mind at some point living in a nice gentrified neighborhood in a large city where I only need my cars on weekends and can enjoy driving and live and work in walking distance of lots of restaurants and bars, etc. When I lived downtown I enjoyed it, but I never worked downtown--found myself commuting to the burbs..that got old. I want more square footage in a house, though, so my next place will probably be in the burbs...

Edited February 7, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Blake Noble]

Guys, in a century, cars are going to be about as common as horse-drawn carriages are now. And they'll have the same romanticism associated with them. There will always be people who like to drive, but it's incredibly naîve to believe that the motor car is the pinnacle of personal transportation.

Unless I can beam myself between point A and point B (and come out completely intact when I arrive there) with a magic wrist-watch, the automobile is about as good as it's going to get. And I'm just fine with that.

For the record, a self-driving car, despite the fact it is Satan incarnate, is still a car. It still has four wheels, something that powers them, and is road-going. A bus, by technicality, is also an automobile as well.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I was referring to manually-operated cars like we've had for six score years. Self-driving cars will probably become very common in the next century, much as everyone here will hate to admit it. I'm having a hard time caring anymore.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Well from this point on, when I refer to "cars," I mean cars as we know them today.

It just baffles me that some people here can't accept that other people have greater priorities in their lives than their mode of transportation. Cars are not a quintessential part of human existence. Americans lived without them for over a century. Humanity has lived without them for millennia. Billions of people STILL live without them, and couldn't care less about what they're missing. When the complete history of humanity is written up, the internal combustion engine powered automobile will be nothing more than a footnote, a fad that lasted 100-odd years before people found some other gadget to obsess over. THINGS CHANGE, it's a fact of the universe. Nothing lasts forever. Enjoy what you have while you still have it, don't bitch about nobody else giving a f@#k someday.

[Blake Noble]

Well I see I've managed to offend a few of the resident clowns around here by all of the negative points on my posts. Sorry my opinion differs from yours. Sorry for being myself. Just to make ya'll happy, I've taken down most of my posts in this thread.

Also, since I'm so inclined to please everyone tonight, you can just go ahead and down rank this post into oblivion too since I know you won't agree with it and can't be bothered to respond to it as an intelligent adult. And hey! Before I forget, while you're at it you can just go find my other 11,923 posts and rank all of those down too.

I wonder why I even bother to stick around this place sometimes.

Edited February 7, 2012 by black-knight

[§carlet §wordfish]

Wasn't me who downvoted your posts. And my posts were aimed at everyone, not you personally. I don't have a problem with anyone who's a fervent petrolhead, I mean who else is this website for? What really annoys me though is when some fervent petrolheads get all indignant towards people who don't really give a damn about cars, acting like that makes them some sort of soulless brainless communist sheeple or whatever other ridiculous epithet they care to apply to them. Just as it annoys me when non-car lovers get indignant towards car lovers and think they're sociopaths who are single-handedly ruining the environment.

It's not "sad" that some people don't care about cars. It's perfectly normal to not care about cars. People will find other things to care about as times change. That doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make you wrong for not caring about the same things they do. Why is this so hard for some people to accept?

Edited February 7, 2012 by §carlet §wordfish

[Blake Noble]

Wasn't me who downvoted your posts. And I don't have a problem with anyone who's a fervent petrolhead, I mean who else is this place for? What really annoys me though is when some fervent petrolheads get all indignant towards people who don't really give a damn about cars, acting like that makes them some sort of soulless brainless communist sheeple or whatever other ridiculous epithet they care to apply to them. Just as it annoys me when non-car lovers get indignant towards car lovers and think they're sociopaths who are single-handedly ruining the environment.

I know it wasn't you.

I don't remember if I was belligerent in any way towards your posts and I personally don't think that I was, but if I was then I didn't mean to be.

Threads like these, though ... what can I say? They scare the piss out of me. Like I said in one of my earlier posts (which I have taken down), I've loved cars since I was just old enough to say a coherent sentence. I always looked forward to getting my license growing up. I always aspired to own a car that was fun to drive when I was a kid. Sad to say, but there isn't much in my life that I'm truly passionate about. A future without cars around to drive, love, hate, praise, and bash is a future that I just do not want to be a part of, sorry.

There's also no changing the fact that I'm proud to be one of the few out there in my generation who still feels that way. I make no apologies for who I am. You love or like me, or you don't and you stay the hell away from me and out of my way.

So do I get confused about someone who could care less about the concept of driving a car? Well, yeah. There's no avoiding the fact you'll have to get behind the wheel of a car at least once in your life. Acting apathetic about driving and treating it like a chore is only going to make you drive poorly, I think. Find some reason, some way to make it fun regardless of what you're driving. You only live once. Life is too short to not to get the most out of every last second you get.

That doesn't mean I want to seek someone who could care less out and put their head on a pike. I guess I might be a little daft but I'm not quite that daft.

/endresponseandfirstrant

I'll be fair and say if there's anything at all in that article I agree with it's that the price of insurance, gas, and a decent car does make it difficult for someone my age to get behind the wheel. I don't think any of that should be an excuse, though. If you're like me and you live in a rural town a car is essential. It's how you get to class, it's how you get to work. If you don't have something to drive, you're dead weight. No one's going to chauffeur your ass around, especially when you can't chip in for gas.

Sure, it may be convenient to live in an urban area, but I personally would prefer not to. I value my own personal space, not to mention it's costly to pay for a decent apartment with a minimum wage job in a large city. You can't just wake up one day and suddenly make enough money to pay for any sort of car and any sort of apartment when you're trying to get on your feet. You choose one and go from there. It's almost impossible to have it both ways.

In another post I had up earlier, I said that any financial problems I'm dealing with was due to my own ineptness with money and my lack of effective foresight and planning, not because I have ownership of a car. I stand by that statement. I'll admit I'm wrong if someone wants to show me how with some concrete evidence and not the click of a dumbass button.

I know I should post this thought elsewhere, but I should let it be known I have no issue with the idea of favoriting posts. This current negative/positive rep system, on the other hand, makes this place a little too much like Reddit at times for my liking.

If you read something you don't like, you have other options rather than clicking that stupid, childish, yellow-assed little button. You can:

• Do the first adult thing by engaging someone in an intelligent debate. It's okay if it gets heated as long as you aren't going to escalate things into an outright flame war.
  
• Choose to put the author of the post on your ignored user's list. Sure, you might look like an idiot with your fingers in your ears all the time, but as long as you're happy then who's to judge?
  
• Do the other adult thing and simply quit reading the post when you feel a little upset but not upset enough to do anything affirmative about it. It can't be that hard to quit reading something. I always manage to make myself quit reading stuff that I vehemently disagree with when I'm lurking TTAC.
  

Edited February 7, 2012 by black-knight

[SAmadei]

It's not dumbed down. I don't know if anyone here has noticed lately. but the economy isn't in great shape. Especially if you don't need a car, it makes perfect sense not to take on the financial responsibility of owning one. From payments, to insurance, to maintenance. It costs a lot of money to have a car, and if you live in an era where public transit is a viable option, there's not a real need for it.

And if you live in the 95% of the US where public transportation is awful, I guess you just walk or stay home and "go to" college online. Bunch of socialites that will breed.

We've made cars expensive by insisting that we have insurance, fully optioned premium vehicles, and heavy, yet tiny cars with too much technology... all these cars are a lot more expensive to fix and fuel, and then we removed a whole bunch of perfectly fine affordable vehicles with cash for clunkers. We have allowed ourselves to be priced out by our greed, politicians and the auto, energy and insurance conglomerates.

Plus, it works well for those of us to do enjoy our cars. Remember that statistics show that 16-18 year olds have the highest accident rate of any rage group. Having less of them on the road is just fine by me.

Removing that age group would result in 19-21 year olds having the highest accident rate. Remove them and 22-25 would be highest. Remove them and 25-30 would be highest. Remove them and 31-39 would be highest. Its not the age, its the years of driving experience... even though mostly everyone out there seems awful, they would be TEN TIMES WORSE if they were all rank beginners.

You want less people on the road? Make everybody get retested for a driver's license exam that 98% fail.

[riviera74]

So the kids are not into cars as cars? OK then, such is life. Most of us remember life pre-Twitter, pre-Facebook and pre-cellphones: they do not. A 21 Y.O. would see a car as little more than an appliance for getting from point A to point B. I knew a few when I went back to college, and they are far more interested in other things. I doubt kids HATE cars, as much as they are indifferent to them. In a compact city, cars are expensive and possibly unnecessary. In Florida, they are mandatory, unless you want to be dependent on local buses..... bad idea.

As for cars getting to be too expensive, that is true. Compare a fully equipped 1980 Regal at $9000 brand new to a fully optioned 2012 Lacrosse at $38,000 brand new. Despite cash for clunkers, I still see plenty of used cars around here for sale for the better part of two years after the program ended.

[regfootball]

Just asked my son (17), he mulled it over & said 'phone'.

'I can always get a ride'...

that's it right there. 'always get a ride'.

at some point, the job you will need to take will not have transit, and all your other relatives and friends will be busy tending to their own responsibilities and will be worlds away.

[Intrepidation]

And if you live in the 95% of the US where public transportation is awful, I guess you just walk or stay home and "go to" college online. Bunch of socialites that will breed.

I know lots of people who live in Boston or commute to or from Boston. My boss for example, commutes an hour and a half from there. He'd much rather take the train but unfortunately the network stops about a half hour from where work is. From that point on its freight line. He wants a G37 in the future but not while he lives in Boston, it would get dinged up in no time. I've driven there, I hate it. Hate it. I'd much rather take the train.

Of course there's plenty of people who need to have a car, but that's need not so much want. Most buyers probably don't buy a Camry because they dying to own one.

We've made cars expensive by insisting that we have insurance, fully optioned premium vehicles, and heavy, yet tiny cars with too much technology... all these cars are a lot more expensive to fix and fuel, and then we removed a whole bunch of perfectly fine affordable vehicles with cash for clunkers. We have allowed ourselves to be priced out by our greed, politicians and the auto, energy and insurance conglomerates.

Even the cheapest piece of crap Versa is more than $10,000. No sane person aspires to own one, certainly not teens. Not only that, even being a band new car there's the costs of maintaining and insuring it associated. I don't know about you but when I was 16 I didn't have 10 grand handy. As well, not everyone in cities have places to store cars beyond public roads, which as I mentioned before, will likely get them dinged up.

Going the used route is an option, but there again you have the costs of insuring and maintenance, plus the costs of repairs the car will need at some point. The amount of people who put off important repairs on their cars or do it with the cheapest, lowest quality parts is startling, but its because often times they can't afford it.

Also, as the article mentions, kids are still interested in cars, but those are dream cars like 911's not Cruzes.

Removing that age group would result in 19-21 year olds having the highest accident rate. Remove them and 22-25 would be highest. Remove them and 25-30 would be highest. Remove them and 31-39 would be highest. Its not the age, its the years of driving experience... even though mostly everyone out there seems awful, they would be TEN TIMES WORSE if they were all rank beginners.

By and large as a 21 year or or evena n 18 year old is going to be more mature and have a greater sense of responsiblity (and a job) than a 16 year old. Honestly, I didn't get my license until I was 18, and didn't get my first car until I was20. Couldn't afford it before then, much as I wanted to.

You want less people on the road? Make everybody get retested for a driver's license exam that 98% fail.

Dude I only wish, although I would add that the tests should be much harder to pass in the first place. Any dumbass can get a license now.

--

We're different. We're enthusiasts and love cars. I love my car and the freedom to go anywhere with it (just not the time or spare money for gas to do so!) But enthusiasts have always been out numbed by people who just view them as appliances. Now just more of those younger people are seeing less of a need to want to own one.

[Intrepidation]

Just asked my son (17), he mulled it over & said 'phone'.

'I can always get a ride'...

that's it right there. 'always get a ride'.

at some point, the job you will need to take will not have transit, and all your other relatives and friends will be busy tending to their own responsibilities and will be worlds away.

Yes, but that's usually not an issue until at least after high school. In fact, some of my high school friends still don't have a car. I was the first and for a while the only one among us to get my license and buy a car.

Balthy's son's response is proof enough that the article holds water. Kids may not hate cars but the certainly don't want them like they used to.

[the_yellow_dart]

The young intern here at my suburban office doesn't drive, he takes cabs in and out every day. Wonder which is cheaper in the long run.

[A Horse With No Name]

Of the roughly 15 good friends I have in my age group in Toronto, one has a car. Three have licenses. Transit is seen as the future and many of them don't understand why I drive.

This is the way that it needs to be in places like Tokyo, Toronto, NYC, etc.

transit has a great future, despite what the naysayers rant about it...

[Robert Hall]

Of the roughly 15 good friends I have in my age group in Toronto, one has a car. Three have licenses. Transit is seen as the future and many of them don't understand why I drive.

Interesting..do they ever venture into the suburbs or outside the metro area? You can only get so far by bus or other public transit. I can understand not having a license if you only stay in a confined area...I could understand not having a car but having a license if there are resources like ZipCar available when you need a car.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[G. David Felt]

As long as Transit is unresponsive to the needs of the people, cost the tax payers to support rather than charge a proper price to the riders, Transit can die.

In seattle, no different than any other large city, bus fares should be about $5 one way. The fact is the riders should pay enough to cover the cost of the buses, fuel, employees, repairs, insurance.

If you choose to not drive and take mass transit, then expect to pay, $50 a week, $10 a day, $5 one way. Mass Transit should be Non-Profit break even cost structure. Most mass transit systems rely on all tax payers to pay for it when most do not use it.

I see and understand the need for mass transit in the cities and non poluttion auto's, but for most people who like to live away from the cities, they should not have to pay for someone elses transportation.

We pay for our Auto's, the auto insurance, gas and maintenance. Then people think everyone should pay for mass transit that is used by a much smaller group.

Before anyone bashes me, My new job is in Downtown Seattle. By Choice I ride the bus as it is a 30 min commute time versus 1hr and expensive parking garages if I drive my car.

I still feel the bus fare is too cheap and must be raised to cover the costs without increasing tax's.

[FAPTurbo]

I still feel the bus fare is too cheap and must be raised to cover the costs without increasing tax's.

But that unfairly penalizes people who rely most on transit: students and low-income earners.

Taxes should be levied on drivers. If you choose the luxury to use a car, you pay to subsidize the people who choose not to. If you live outside of the city in the suburbs, thus paying lower property values and taxes, but enjoying larger square-footage, it's an acceptable penalty to subsidize transit.

[the_yellow_dart]

Of the roughly 15 good friends I have in my age group in Toronto, one has a car. Three have licenses. Transit is seen as the future and many of them don't understand why I drive.

Interesting..do they ever venture into the suburbs or outside the metro area? You can only get so far by bus or other public transit. I can understand not having a license if you only stay in a confined area...I could understand not having a car but having a license if there are resources like ZipCar available when you need a car.

The people I know without licenses rarely leave the downtown core, and do so by plane or train when they do.

[regfootball]

As long as Transit is unresponsive to the needs of the people, cost the tax payers to support rather than charge a proper price to the riders, Transit can die.

In seattle, no different than any other large city, bus fares should be about $5 one way. The fact is the riders should pay enough to cover the cost of the buses, fuel, employees, repairs, insurance.

If you choose to not drive and take mass transit, then expect to pay, $50 a week, $10 a day, $5 one way. Mass Transit should be Non-Profit break even cost structure. Most mass transit systems rely on all tax payers to pay for it when most do not use it.

I see and understand the need for mass transit in the cities and non poluttion auto's, but for most people who like to live away from the cities, they should not have to pay for someone elses transportation.

We pay for our Auto's, the auto insurance, gas and maintenance. Then people think everyone should pay for mass transit that is used by a much smaller group.

Before anyone bashes me, My new job is in Downtown Seattle. By Choice I ride the bus as it is a 30 min commute time versus 1hr and expensive parking garages if I drive my car.

I still feel the bus fare is too cheap and must be raised to cover the costs without increasing tax's.

word.

even if you own your car outright, its about 300 a month to insure, fuel, park and drive. a 300-400 payment plus fuel maintenance and insurance can often be 600, 700, 800 a month. But if you want a job and need to get there, that's the price. If you can walk, all the power to you. If you want to visit the fam in Peoria 4 hours away, then there's your means. But if choose to take the bus instead, 200 a month to ride to work should not be an issue. chump change, in comparison. you can always stay home and have your very own prn site if you want an occupation that makes money but you don't want to leave your house.

Edited February 7, 2012 by regfootball

[SAmadei]

We've made cars expensive by insisting that we have insurance, fully optioned premium vehicles, and heavy, yet tiny cars with too much technology... all these cars are a lot more expensive to fix and fuel, and then we removed a whole bunch of perfectly fine affordable vehicles with cash for clunkers. We have allowed ourselves to be priced out by our greed, politicians and the auto, energy and insurance conglomerates.

Even the cheapest piece of crap Versa is more than $10,000. No sane person aspires to own one, certainly not teens. Not only that, even being a band new car there's the costs of maintaining and insuring it associated. I don't know about you but when I was 16 I didn't have 10 grand handy. As well, not everyone in cities have places to store cars beyond public roads, which as I mentioned before, will likely get them dinged up.

Going the used route is an option, but there again you have the costs of insuring and maintenance, plus the costs of repairs the car will need at some point. The amount of people who put off important repairs on their cars or do it with the cheapest, lowest quality parts is startling, but its because often times they can't afford it.

This is all common sense, but I think you are missing my point. That piece of junk Versa costs so much because it has 1001 federal regulations to conform to and requires 200 lawyers to peruse every piece of documentation. Then its a fortune to insure because statistically its going to hit another car which costs considerably more... because of those lawyers, federal regulations and the other cars' need to be quiet, have Sat Nav, 301-way tiger leather seats and electric bun warmers. Those 28 air bags and all the interior panels that break when they deploy are pricy to replace after a tiny accident.

Worse, if you decide to go used, because people are keeping the cars longer, you get a worn-out over-optioned, over-priced used car in which the 201-way seats only go 8 ways, the Rhino-leather is ripped and the bun warmers don't work. And since its made with parts that are only stocked for a few years, especially if its a foreign car, the parts are hard to locate and expensive.

Compare this to 1996 when I bought a 10 year old full size station wagon for $200... and put little into it. It was presentable, but the paint was starting to burn off the roof and hood. Sure, it eventually got a new tranny put in (junkyard... installed for $250) and some suspension parts... but otherwise the car got little maintenance except for brakes and fluids. Parts it did need were engineered in the '70s and where dirt cheap... and were still made in America... back before the Chinese junk really started to fill up the auto stores. And it was dirt cheap to insure... IIRC, about $300 a year. Only downer was the gas costs... but, again, I was paying $1.07 in 1999. I put about 125K on this car. Today, this car would have been swallowed up by C4C.

I used to always buy cars for dirt cheap (less than $750)... but its HARD to find a decent one today for less than 2000.

Enjoy the high cost of auto ownership. It was brought upon by cheering on that every brand needs to be premium and uber-over-safe.

Also, as the article mentions, kids are still interested in cars, but those are dream cars like 911's not Cruzes.

And for 95% of them, its going to stay a dream.

By and large as a 21 year or or evena n 18 year old is going to be more mature and have a greater sense of responsiblity (and a job) than a 16 year old. Honestly, I didn't get my license until I was 18, and didn't get my first car until I was20. Couldn't afford it before then, much as I wanted to.

Sure, you're more mature... but that has little bearing on your actual driving acumen. Most accidents are the result of inattention, carelessness or driving while intoxicated or tired. For all the hype about people hooning around or road rage, which even older drivers do, they result in few accidents (but they create spectacular ones when they do). If you are a young driver, you will have bad habits that need correction, and will only get corrected over time by making mistakes.

The bottom line is that statistically, you are a risk in your first couple years, reguardless of age... thats why insurance companies want to know how many years you've been driving when they quote you. My friend who got her license at 28 paid more per month than I did when I was 22.

When you get older, you are going to group all 18-29 year olds in the same maturity level... many of my friends made their worst mistakes in their mid-20s.

[Camino LS6]

Sad commentary.

No it's not.

Of course it is.

It's always sad when a way of life dies, especially one that embodies a sense of freedom such as car ownership does. In this society, individuality itself is dying and the car is just a casualty.

In times when you didn't have to mortgage your soul to own and operate a car, it was the ticket to independence and a step into adulthood, It was a rite of passage and a declaration free expression. A car empowered you.

If losing that isn't sad, what is?

[FAPTurbo]

And smartphones/cell-phones have introduced a new sense of freedom, individuality and connectivity.

[Camino LS6]

...and conformity, and isolation, and a loss of privacy...

[Robert Hall]

...and conformity, and isolation, and a loss of privacy...

Isolation would be not having a cell phone. I couldn't imagine not having a phone, and especially not having a smart phone...

[§carlet §wordfish]

And driving your car to work every day isn't already conformist and isolationg?

[Robert Hall]

And driving your car to work every day isn't already conformist and isolating?

No..it's practical. I work in an office 18 miles from home. Going by bus or light rail would double my commute time and have several other inconvenient aspects.

[§carlet §wordfish]

I drive 18 miles to school 3-4 days a week. But it certainly doesn't make me feel more individual or in touch with other people.

[Robert Hall]

Well, the key aspect to 'feeling individual' with driving is you don't have to be dependent on someone else for a ride....free to go where you want to go, when you want to go, what route you want to take, etc. It's one of those freedom aspects to growing up as opposed to being a kid driven around by a parent.

I couldn't imagine trying to catch a ride w/ someone, waiting in the disgusting heat on a bus, having to call a cab, etc.

[Camino LS6]

Well, the key aspect to 'feeling individual' with driving is you don't have to be dependent on someone else for a ride....free to go where you want to go, when you want to go, what route you want to take, etc. It's one of those freedom aspects to growing up as opposed to being a kid driven around by a parent.

I couldn't imagine trying to catch a ride w/ someone, waiting in the disgusting heat on a bus, having to call a cab, etc.

Yes.

And, taking a drive just for its own sake...

[Robert Hall]

And, taking a drive just for its own sake...

That reminds me...I haven't taken a 'destination unknown' random drive in a long time...I always seem to be busy w/ life and have a specific destination in mind--the office, a restaurant, Starbucks, Target, etc. Haven't driven just for fun in ages..

[FAPTurbo]

Yeah 300,000 people driving a Camaro is totally non-conformist.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah 300,000 people driving a Camaro is totally non-conformist.

A few individuals compared to the millions of sheep driving Toyotas.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I think the thing kind of being lost in translation here is that there is some lament that amongst young people, the car hobby is becoming less and less mainstream and fewer people are getting involved. I'm not as much talking about fewer teens driving, I'm talking about fewer and fewer of them being interested in cars. I think that's what a lot of people are getting at here. Not that you should drive everywhere or that we shouldn't have a transit system, but that it's sad that a lot of the values and more favorable things and the dare I say "romanticism" we associate with the car hobby is being somehow supplanted by more interest in things that some here view to have less of an air of permanency and staying power, more disposable etc...

That's certainly how I am approaching this at least.

[Robert Hall]

I think the thing kind of being lost in translation here is that there is some lament that amongst young people, the car hobby is becoming less and less mainstream and fewer people are getting involved. I'm not as much talking about fewer teens driving, I'm talking about fewer and fewer of them being interested in cars. I think that's what a lot of people are getting at here. Not that you should drive everywhere or that we shouldn't have a transit system, but that it's sad that a lot of the values and more favorable things and the dare I say "romanticism" we associate with the car hobby is being somehow supplanted by more interest in things that some here view to have less of an air of permanency and staying power, more disposable etc...

That's certainly how I am approaching this at least.

Good point.... I see it when I go to car events...most of the people seem to be my age or older, lots of gray/white hairs.. not many 'youfs'...

[regfootball]

And smartphones/cell-phones have introduced a new sense of freedom, individuality and connectivity.

i sure wish i could have sexted pictures of my p3nis to a girl i was chasing, or been able to take pictures of naked conquests and send them around to friends when i was younger.

you know, the important, meaningful, and culturally valuable things you can do with a cell phone. that, and play games. Zomg

[regfootball]

And driving your car to work every day isn't already conformist and isolating?

No..it's practical. I work in an office 18 miles from home. Going by bus or light rail would double my commute time and have several other inconvenient aspects.

in your car, you don't have to sit next to loud and sweaty. you have your own audio. You have a place for your beverage, and if you need to swing out of the way on a whim and go pick up your meds at the pharmacy, you can do that.

and you don't have to stop every 5 minutes and pick up a bunch of others.

my favoritie scenario is this. my kid gets sick at 2 a.m. i need immediately to get them to urgent care or a pharmacy or both. It's freezing out and snowing and minus a bunch wind chill. I don't think i'll be taking my kid on a bus........partially because it won't be running at that time and place.