2012 VW Passat (TDI SEL and gas SE)

[regfootball]

2012 Passat SEL TDI 33,+/- MSRP and 2012 Passat SE 5 cylinder, 25,8xx MSRP

HIGHS

-stately exterior, looks more expensive than class competitors

-large car

-classy interior (see commentary)

-simply laid out and functional interior

-huge inside, by all metrics...leg, head, shoulders, it's all good.

-big trunk

-nice feeling controls

-well organized under the hood (including insulation on battery)

-SE trim level better than expected, on par with class

-SEL has decent plood and nice seat accents, even SE interior in black is alright with pleather

-TDI has some snort (see comments)

-TDI, DSG functions pretty well

-TDI, you really have little idea you are driving a diesel

-TDI 30/40 mpg

-something slightly akin to what a large German car MAY feel like -like an A8-, at an Ikea price

-good visibility, its not a complete bunker inside

-i think a lot of drivers will like the driving position (see comments)

-nice padded dashtop, nice headliner

-standard bluetooth with standard bluetooth streaming

-standard touchscreen audio interface

-nice cubbies in the console for phones etc

-better size steering wheel than the jetta

-cruises well

-a certain level of quiet inside

-good tires and wheels

-some steering feel in certain situations

-overall, should be a big hit for VW.....a much better fit for the USA than before

LOWS

-five cylinder is just wrong.....lacks grunt, not even smooth like the good fours these days, will have to see how it works with a stick

-both cars desperately aim to short shift all the time. Sport mode helps some, but really, it's ridiculous.

-AT in the SE is not as good as the DSG, not that that either is top drawer

-TDI has gusto but seems to run out of steam earlier. It's adequate and smoother but not above average.

-Rear seats are flat, lack shape, headrest too far back, seat bottom not deep enough

-lower part of dash is cheap plastic (door plastics are probably passable)

-I had trouble getting the front seat bottom adjusted the way I wanted it. I could not get it high enough or get the angle i wanted. However I think others won't have that same problem. Shorter women especially may have trouble in this car.

-Shape of the front seats and the support were very problematic. Seemed unsupportive and cheaper than they should be.

-Bumps on bad roads are felt too much and there is too much noise from tire and suspension thumping. Car as a whole is not as bank vault solid as you may expect. Car is not really pedigreed as a autobahn burner......

-Steering should be quicker and have more feel on a VW. The hydraulic system of the SE felt a little better I think, but the SEL was quieter inside. I expected better ride, handling, agility, road feel, heft, and quietness.

-Some folks may not like how big the car is, actually

-Some folks may not like the more stately styling

-yeah there could be some nicer plastics in spots

-power mirror controls are really in a stupid spot and the mirrors themselves are not big or shaped well for actually, you know, seeing stuff off of

-yeah, the trunk is trimmed a little cheaply....

-the handbrake really could have been, you know, integrated into the design.....

-did i mention the five cylinder is just plain wrong? what a joke.

SUMMARY

Depending on your feeling and what you expect of a VW moving forward into history, your acceptance level of this radically revised Passat will vary. I do not come at this from the perspective of a VDubophile, or a German car buff in general. But neither am I a bland Asian car lover. It is with great curiosity I was eager to see the result of this new cross-pollination of VW with its next Americanization project.

VW aims to squarely address every item of its previous entry into this class of car and remove the objections...cost, size, design.......that kept it in the past from being a volume player. It would really be wasting time to repeat what a lot of other articles have said about the Americanization of the Passat. Because VW is so blatant about how they have changed this car. And from my perspective, it's all better, and an almost complete success in doing so.

Partially this works because the Jetta and CC can bridge the gap of the sporty German VW car. The new Passat has a long way to go to be considered sporty or classically a Germanic car. It might be a fantastic car if they ever take it there. Right now, its a puff cruiser, and that's what a lot of folks want.

The really big flaws on this car, IMO, are the five cylinder engine, the tendency for the car in either form to want badly to short shift, some of the seating issues (which maybe not everyone agrees with), lack of solidity, and lastly, I think they still have work to do on the steering, suspension, bump and noise isolation, and overall refinement of the drive.

Don't get me wrong! It's better than a Camry or Accord! But I think it's still not up to par. OK, you CAN buy a CC to have fun...... but why should an 010 Passat be a more pleasing drive?

A Taurus is more solid, comfortable and quieter and smoother. On the bottom end, a Kizashi (shameless plug, I know) is sharper, quicker, smoother, more fun, and has better seats. I am certain a lot of Fusion drivers would probably like a Fusion far before the 5 cylinder Passat. A LaCrosse is a much smoother and sharper solution. The Regal even is so much more refined and feeling of value and solidity. An Impala will save you a bunch of money.

I would say in SE trim, a Passat is a bangup deal and a super car, except with the five cylinder its a bit of a fail. The five cylinder is always a fuss until you wind it out, and even then its not really anything to speak of. The TDI is a nice powertrain, but now the price is getting up there.

For what VW has done, they deserve big praise. They sat down and said, "what do we need to do to sell a buttload more of these"? They were laser sharp in deciding conceptually what the car needs to be to have a raised profile here in the US. Larger, cheaper, softer. For many, the style or size of the car alone will seal the deal.

What's left is to put just a little bit more of the VW mojo back into the car.....it's really not far off though. No wonder why VW is so optimistic.

Would I buy one? Good question, I would balk with the 5 +AT, I think. The rest of the car is nice enough that a cheap lease may nail me though because I like the size, packaging, and value. As it stands, its on par or better than most of the cars in the class, it just doesn't put it all together just yet into a knockout punch. The TDI IMO it depends on how much you admire the diesel, because you pay for it.

I would give the car an A- if they had powertrains sorted out. I want to give it a B but I should be nice and give it a B+ because for VW to make this paradigm shift alone is praiseworthy and notable and a great canvas for them to improve this car year after year. It's a great start. I'm extremely curious how the V6 drives.

[regfootball]

turbo four + stick and sport suspension in this car would be a really neat combo........

[Drew Dowdell]

more about the sparkless ignition one please....

[ocnblu]

Reg, diesels are very low RPM engines. All diesels run out of steam in the higher revs. Their powuh is copious down low, however.

Like the Jetter beferr it, the new Passat is genuinely nice and super utilitarian.

I've gotta ask, did you go to the dealer as a little pudgy Darth Vader?

[regfootball]

more about the sparkless ignition one please....

i think most folks would be very jiggy with it.

its not crude like it is on the Jetta. It's pretty transparent, aside from the short shifting, and the sport mode helped with that a bit.

no clatter, rattle, none of that. sales dude suggested the DSG was a far better match for the diesel on this car than the manual and I would take his word for it here........

there is some lag, getting the diesel up and running....but in slow traffic that is probably a moot issue......

I would say the power should meet the needs of most when considering the tradeoff between mpg and such. I would probably want a little more go out of a 34k car.......

realize you are not getting a sport sedan, nor a luxury car, and not a hardcore German car. You are sort of getting a bit of a caricature of all three of those plus some generic mid size car aura in with that.

There are so many good cars out there, if the diesel is what floats your boat and is the unique selling proposition, then I don't think you'd be remorseful. There is just enough style, panache, etc. here to buy this car for more than just it being the nicest most useful TDI.

At the same time the Regal, LaCrosse, Taurus, Chrysler 300............the 2 buicks in particular just seem more buttoned down and such........

[regfootball]

Reg, diesels are very low RPM engines. All diesels run out of steam in the higher revs. Their powuh is copious down low, however.

Like the Jetter beferr it, the new Passat is genuinely nice and super utilitarian.

I've gotta ask, did you go to the dealer as a little pudgy Darth Vader?

i think the passing power was hindered by the turbo lag a bit and the DSG while very good still was not a master of kickdowns.......

anything up to 65 mph or so the car did an ok job but my guess is at say 75mph trying to get some extra kickdown to pass on the interstate may be something that would make the car seem a bit flat footed........

at least the passat is not downright cheap feeling like a lot of the Jetta is.......

Edited July 21, 2011 by regfootball

[pow]

You can't get a Taurus, LaCrosse, or Regal for $20K.

It seems the base car would be an interesting buy. The manual transmission might make the driving experience a bit better, and perhaps the cloth seats will be more comfortable and accommodating than the pleather. I'd get the $19,995 S special, spend $1200 on some A8-replica wheels and 18" tires, 3M Di-Noc carbon fiber wrap the silver plastic, and call it a day. Personally I don't mind the racket the I5 makes, because it sounds like a muted off-key Gallardo V10.

I wonder if the DSG programming is driver adaptable. I'm a slow accelerating driver, and over time, the Tip in my Passat has learned to adapt to that and shift early.

turbo four + stick and sport suspension in this car would be a really neat combo........

SAIC-VW makes a version with a 2.0T in mainland China...

Was seat comfort an issue for both the SEL Premium and SE? Apparently the SEL Premium gets more supportive "sport" seats.

[regfootball]

you can't get a passat for 20k either. SE like tested was 25,800....the S automatic is probably 23k. I can tell you with certainty you can buy a new Taurus SEL for 25k. You can buy a new Fusion S for 18k with automatic that has a nicer drivetrain than the pukey 5......

[regfootball]

You can't get a Taurus, LaCrosse, or Regal for $20K.

It seems the base car would be an interesting buy. The manual transmission might make the driving experience a bit better, and perhaps the cloth seats will be more comfortable and accommodating than the pleather. I'd get the $19,995 S special, spend $1200 on some A8-replica wheels and 18" tires, 3M Di-Noc carbon fiber wrap the silver plastic, and call it a day. Personally I don't mind the racket the I5 makes, because it sounds like a muted off-key Gallardo V10.

I wonder if the DSG programming is driver adaptable. I'm a slow accelerating driver, and over time, the Tip in my Passat has learned to adapt to that and shift early.

turbo four + stick and sport suspension in this car would be a really neat combo........

SAIC-VW makes a version with a 2.0T in mainland China...

Was seat comfort an issue for both the SEL Premium and SE? Apparently the SEL Premium gets more supportive "sport" seats.

the SEL seats were a little bit nicer......but i did not think by a large amount.

[pow]

Drove the TDI SEL today. Agreed with most of your points. My observations:

- "aluminum" trim on the SE wasn't as bad as expected; SEL plood was okay

- steering wheel seemed offset to the right, or maybe I'm not used to having so much shoulder room and seeing the wheel so far from the door

- seat bottom angle wasn't adjustable, even though there was power lumbar and seat position memory... weird

- doors didn't slam with the "thunk" I was accustomed to; Jetta is better in this regard

- brakes could feel more solid

- steering was accurate and pleasantly light

- nicely damped ride with good body control

- good fit and fitness and materials overall, better than its competitors (Accord, Camry, Fusion, Malibu, Optima, etc)

- seats could feel more plush, but I thought they were supportive

- the Captain Slow in me wanted the DSG to upshift earlier for better economy

- averaged 28 MPG in mostly low speed city driving... nice

- didn't bother to play around with the touch screen radio; seems less intuitive than proper buttons

Overall, I thought it was a solid midsize contender with a more luxury feel than most its competitors. It's not sporty or engaging to drive by any means, but it seems like it will handle the daily slog effortlessly and efficiently. A low stress driving environment. Like it more than the rental 2011 Maxima I drove for 1,500 miles. Looks pretty sharp, but I would still prefer lower ride height and more interesting 19" wheels.

[regfootball]

i noticed the steering wheel offset, lack of plush in the seat, and also and the lack of solid door thunk.

But yeah, compared to an Altima or even the Maxima and so many other cars, the Passat is definitely more appealing in many ways.

VW may actually meet their lofty goals......

Edited July 24, 2011 by regfootball

[ocnblu]

I looked at a couple today at the local VW/Audi/Porsche store. It's an imposing, large automobile. I like it.

[regfootball]

it's got length, it's got girth. easy to feel excited about it......

[ocnblu]

You're so right, Reginald!

[67impss]

Longer, lower , wider... oooh

[regfootball]

sat inside a 12 passat today again....black interior SE....it did not come off quite as well........but yes, it has room.....

both excited about this car and on the fence at the same time...