siegen

Lose the buck-tooth grille and the spoiler, and replace it with something more modest, and it might be a good looking Pontiac.

The Land Cruiser and LX are pretty much the same vehicle, and they both sell at abysmal rates. They could be eliminated quite easily IMO.

Diesel-hybrid compact car. Sounds good to me!

Toyota does have a lot of SUV's. 6 to be exact (pretty good for the greenest automaker right?). At first glance they seem to overlap, but they each have their place... it's a question of whether or not covering every base is the best strategy, especially for an automaker trying to uphold its green image while maintaining a full lineup of SUV's. The RAV4 is the smallest seating 5, comes with a transversely mounted 4cyl or 6cyl. The Highlander is mid-sized, seating 5-7, comes with a transversely mounted 6cyl. The 4 Runner also seats 5-7, but is differentiated from the Highlander in that it comes with a larger V6 or a V8, which are longitudinally mounted. It is marketed as an off-roading vehicle. The Sequoia is a full-size SUV, seats 8, comes with a V8. The FJ Cruiser is also marketed as an off-roader like the 4 Runner, but only seats 5 and only comes with a V6. The Land Cruiser is pointless in the Toyota lineup, since it's so expensive. If anything, the 4Runner and FJ seem to overlap, cause Toyota doesn't really need both if you ask me. In the Lexus lineup, they have 3. The GX and LX, IMO, could be combined into one model. LX/Land Cruiser sales total around 300-400 per month, so they aren't exactly Toyota's hottest sellers.

For those of you that don't know, the current Accord available in Europe is the same car that is sold here as the Acura TSX (minus the 205hp engine, luxury goodies, and Acura interior). This Tourer concept, as well as the Sports4 concept, are the styling direction of the next European Accord and very likely the direction of the next Acura TSX. While it is highly unlikely we'll get a wagon version, the sedan which will be shown later should carry a lot of styling cues from this, specially in the front. Honda's current diesel, the i-CTDi will be getting replaced by this new clean diesel i-DTEC. It will be equipped with the new catalytic converter (which does not require any sort of Urea injection) for the U.S., to meet our requirements.

Honda Presents Accord Tourer Concept and i-DTEC at Frankfurt Motor Show Next-Generation Clean Diesel Engine Technology Press Release Photo Index September 11, 2007– Honda presented to the world the exciting Accord Tourer Concept and the new generation of Honda diesel engines, i-DTEC at the 2007 Frankfurt motor show. The premiere of the Accord Tourer Concept provides a strong indication of the design direction of the all-new generation Accord Tourer set to debut in mid-2008. The wider, lower look signals a sportier, more emotional styling approach, and while the design of the current Accord Tourer maximises its load-carrying capability, the new model goes for smarter, sleeker proportions while retaining a strong degree of versatility and practicality. The Concept's greater width makes for a more spacious cabin and also allows an increased track for enhanced handling characteristics. The all-new Accord range will boast one of the first all-Euro 5-compliant engine line-ups which will consist of two i-VTEC petrol engines of 2.0 and 2.4-litre capacities and a newly developed 2.2-litre i-DTEC next-generation diesel engine. Compared to the current Accord engine line-up, power output will be boosted and emissions and fuel economy significantly improved. The latest engines will be complemented by innovative new chassis technology that will deliver exceptional handling, greater linear stability and a more involving driving experience without compromising ride comfort. The all-new Accord will debut in Sedan and Tourer forms at the 2008 Geneva motor show. The all-new i-DTEC is the 2nd diesel engine Honda has developed. By further improving the current award winning i-CTDi's superb performance, fuel economy and emission efficiencies, i-DTEC has achieved various stringent emission standards in the U.S., Japan and Europe (Honda test data). The first phase of the programme - compliance with the Euro 5 legislation expected in 2009 - has already reached fruition, and an example of the new engine, which makes its first appearance in next year's Accord range, is being shown on the stand. Honda continues to work on the second phase of development of its latest diesel engine and has already achieved compliance with the stringent US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Tier II/Bin 5 emissions requirements. This is of particular significance to the European market in that the Tier II standards are even more demanding than the Euro 6 requirements which remain at the proposal stage. An example of this engine is also on display at the stand.

The new Accord is FAR from Crown Vic bland. It doesn't stand out like the Charger/300, but that isn't the point. If a buyer wants a car with style and character, they can buy the Coupe.

I called my local dealer, they just got 3 in, so the guy let me go in the back warehouse to look at them. Only saw two among all the recent arrivals, a V6 and a 190hp I4, both in Silver, top models with leather and nav. They look better in person. The only gripe I have is I think the head lights are a bit too large. They make the rest of the car look small and disproportionate. Not a lot, but I think they could have made the head lights a half inch shorter both in height and length, and it would have flowed better. The rear view looks great, as does the rest of the angles. A bit too much hard plastics on the inside, but I am comparing it to my Acura. The hard plastic isn't as hard as a lot of the cheaper plastics I've felt in Hyundai's and rentals, it's more of in the middle, between hard and soft plastic. It might be the pattern they use. Overall it's a huge improvement over the current. The inside feels great. Didn't get to mess with the controls much, they were mostly covered in plastic still. I may test drive one later this week when they officially go on sale. But then I'm not really interested, unless they get a nice 6MT V6 Coupe!

They're probably defining "domestic" as just the U.S., while most automakers define "domestic" as all of North America. So half of their cars are assembled in the U.S., where do all the parts come from? I bet the percentage of domestic parts in their cars is still well below 30-40%.

A Value Package or SE model may come eventually, as well as the 6 speed manual for the sedan, if there is demand. When the 2003 Accord first came out, there was only the DX, LX, and EX trim levels. By the end of the model cycle they had Value Package, LX, Special Edition, EX, and EX-L. As far as a trim coming out priced under the LX, I'm not sure if they would do that, probably not.

It doesn't count if you stand on the sidewalk and use binoculars. Ha, just kidding. Just talked to my dealer and they don't have any '08 Accords in yet. Should be any day now though, maybe tonight.

With destination charge, the base price for the 5sp manual equipped Sedan is $20,995, and $21,795 for the 5sp auto sedan.

Honda Announces Pricing for All-New 2008 Accord Style, performance and a focus on safety span entire lineup Press Release 09/10/2007 - TORRANCE, Calif. - The all-new, completely redesigned 2008 Honda Accord is set to debut at dealerships nationwide on September 12 (sedan) and September 20 (coupe), with Manufacturer Suggested Retail Prices1 (MSRP) ranging from $20,360 for the well-equipped Accord LX Sedan to $30,510 for the sporty and luxurious Accord EX-L V-6 Coupe equipped with the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation2 System™, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced today. "The 2008 Honda Accord adds popular features and enhancements while maintaining competitive, value-oriented pricing on every model," said Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. "A new, innovative design with improved packaging and even more refined performance adds to the Accord's strong foundation of historically high residual values, renowned manufacturing quality and legendary reliability." Compared to the outgoing 2007 Accord, the 2008 Accord pricing reflects a sales-weighted increase of approximately $600 (2.5 percent) across the entire lineup while adding approximately $1,400 in relative value through new standard features and enhanced equipment. All 4-cylinder models add Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®), 11 horsepower (24 horsepower on Accord EX and EX-L Sedans and all Accord Coupes), rear disc brakes (LX), larger wheels and tires and audio system enhancements. The audio system enhancements include an MP3/auxiliary input jack, steering wheel audio controls (LX), MP3/Windows Media® Audio3 (WMA) playback capability and Radio Data System (RDS). New standard features and enhancements on V-6 models include Variable Cylinder Management™ (VCM®) on automatic transmission models, a 24-horsepower increase, audio system enhancements, fog lights and more. The Accord is available in sedan and coupe body styles with 2.4-liter 4-cylinder and 3.5-liter V-6 engine choices. Available transmissions include a 5-speed manual (standard with all 4-cylinder engines), a 5-speed automatic (standard on V-6 sedan models, available on all 4-cylinder engines and V-6-powered Accord Coupes), and a 6-speed manual transmission (available exclusively on the Accord EX-L V-6 Coupe). The available 3.5-liter i-VTEC V-6 engine produces 268 horsepower - the most ever for any Accord - while introducing a new generation of fuel-saving VCM technology and achieving a Partial Zero-Emissions Vehicle (PZEV4) rating. The VCM system, standard on all automatic transmission-equipped V-6 models, operates in 6-cylinder mode for power and 4- and 3-cylinder modes for efficiency, resulting in an EPA city/highway fuel economy rating of 19/295 miles per gallon (Accord V-6 Sedan). New for Accord, the Advanced Compatibility Engineering™ (ACE™) body structure enhances frontal collision compatibility with vehicles of different sizes and bumper heights. Additional safety equipment standard to all Accord models includes VSA, also known as Electronic Stability Control; side-curtain airbags; dual-chamber front side airbags with passenger-side Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS), active front seat head restraints, anti-lock brakes with electronic brake distribution, brake assist and more. Sedan trim levels range from the well-equipped Accord LX Sedan and plus-featured LX-P (177-horsepower 4-cylinder engine), to the nicely-equipped Accord EX Sedan (190-horsepower 4-cylinder engine or 268-horsepower V-6 engine), to the premium and upscale Accord EX-L Sedan (190-horsepower 4-cylinder engine or 268-horsepower V-6 engine). Coupe trim levels range from the well-equipped Accord LX-S Coupe (190 horsepower 4-cylinder engine), to the nicely-equipped Accord EX Coupe (190-horsepower 4-cylinder engine) to the premium and upscale Accord EX-L Coupe (190-horsepower 4-cylinder engine or 268-horsepower V-6 engine). Dimensionally, the Accord Sedan's overall length of 194.1 inches (4-cylinder models, V-6 models add 0.2 inches for front spoiler lip) is 3.0 inches longer than the 2007 model. The width of 72.7 inches is 1.1 inches wider, and the height of 58.1 inches is 0.9 inches taller. Premium quality with a simple, modern and spacious design describes the philosophy behind the Accord's interior. The larger Accord LX Sedan total interior volume of 120.0 cubic feet (+3.3 cubic feet compared to 2007) moves the EPA classification from the midsize sedan class to the large sedan class. The additional space is intended to provide "equal" seating comfort for front and rear passengers. Rear legroom of 37.2 inches (+0.4 inches) approaches the impressive second row legroom of the Honda Pilot SUV (37.4 inches). The wider interior (+1.5 inches) allows the front seats to be positioned farther apart to allow for a wide center console more commonly associated with the finest luxury vehicles. Three impressive audio systems are available - all with MP3/WMA playback capability and an auxiliary input jack. The standard system features 160 watts, a single-disc CD player and six speakers. The RDS displays information broadcast by participating radio stations that often includes call letters, station type and programming information. The Accord EX Sedan and all Accord Coupes add a 6-disc in-dash changer. The premium audio system, which comes standard on Accord EX Coupe and EX-L Sedan models, has a six-disc CD changer, 270 watts of total amplification and seven speakers, including an 8-inch subwoofer. XM® Satellite Radio6 is standard equipment on all Accord EX-L models. The latest-generation of the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System with voice recognition (available on EX-L) uses an 8-inch screen and an interface dial for user input. Features include the Zagat7 Survey® guide for restaurants, nightlife, hotels and attractions. Navigation-equipped models also include Bluetooth® HandsFreeLink®8. A performance-inspired, double-wishbone front suspension and a multi-link rear suspension are designed to provide world-class chassis dynamics. The Accord Sedan wheelbase of 110.2 inches is 2.3 inches longer than the 2007 model, while the 62.2-inch front/rear track is 1.1 and 1.0 inches wider, respectively. The Accord Coupe wheelbase of 107.9 inches is 2.8 inches longer than the 2007 model (track is identical to sedan). Ultimately, the suspension design with wider tire sizes, standard ABS and standard VSA is intended to enhance driver confidence and handling performance. The 2008 Accord Sedan also comes standard with 16-inch steel wheels with wheel covers, or 16- or 17-inch alloy wheels, depending on model. (The Accord Coupe has 17-inch alloy wheels standard, with 18-inch alloys available on the V-6 Coupe). The 17-inch wheels are the first for a four-cylinder Accord and the Coupe's available 18-inch wheels are the largest ever for a Honda car. The Honda Accord was first Japanese-nameplate car assembled in the United States and calendar year 2007 represents the 25th anniversary of its manufacture here. The first Japanese-built Accord was introduced as a 1976 model, and by 1982 it was being manufactured both in Japan and in a brand-new automobile assembly plant in Marysville, Ohio. The success of the Accord set a path for Honda, and conclusively proved that assembling cars in America was a viable proposition. Seven more Accord generations followed, leading to the eighth-generation 2008 Accord. 1MSRP excluding tax, license, registration, $635.00 destination charge and options. Dealer prices may vary.

Nicer as in looks nicer in pictures, or have you driven both?

That is a bit on the heavy side. The BMW M5 weighs in at 4012 lbs. The Audi is at 4455 lbs and has an AWD system and twin turbos adding weight, but not 400+ lbs worth of weight.

It's also an expensive lightweight 2-seater. I want one!

Interesting comparison. The Toyota can use the gasoline and/or the electric motor to drive the car, while the Volt can only use the electric motor (the gasoline motor is a generator only). At least that's what I get based on the diagrams. As long as the Volt's electric motor has enough power for all types of operation (uphill accelerating, etc) and the generator can keep the battery fully charged, I don't see this as a problem. In fact it seems like quite an advantage to me, specially if you replace the gas motor with a small diesel generator. The Volt has a larger electric motor and battery than the Toyota, which sounds like a big advantage to me for electric only operation. And only 8 miles on the Toyota? That won't get me to work and back electric only. And with the size of the electric motor, is it going to have enough power to go those 8 miles is any driving condition or will the gasoline motor be kicking in everytime I have to accelerate hard or uphill? Btw. Next gen Honda FCX = 270 miles, all electric operation. With possibly to use solar or natural gas powered home-based hydrogen generator.

Overall it is definitely an improvement over the current. What I don't like is the front fenders, they don't fit with the design at all, and looks like they took the front end of an RX-8 and attached it to the rear of the 6. In some angles it looks great while in others it looks really odd. I would take the wagon.

You mean ask your neighbor? :AH-HA_wink:

So what exactly do you guys not like about the CR-V, in particular? Why is it not good? Have you driven one? So the headline should read: American Honda Sets New All-time Record, August Sales Up 4.7 Percent Honda Division, Pilot sets All-time Record low, down 50.2 percent Would that make you happy?

What's going on with Accord, Pilot, and Element sales? Looks like they're literally dumping old Accords off the lots, wonder what kind of incentives they're offering. And the Pilot and Element are feeling the heat big time. The Pilot is down 4,000 units compared to last month, and way off compared to last year August. Maybe GM's new Outlook/Acadia/Enclave triplets are stealing sales, they sold a total of 12,893 between the 3, for August. Accord sales, with big incentives, might have stolen from Honda's SUV sales too.

American Honda Sets New All-time Record, August Sales Up 4.7 Percent Honda Division, CR-V, Odyssey and Fit each set new all-time records Press Release 09/04/2007 - TORRANCE, Calif. - American Honda Motor Co., Inc., posted all-time record monthly sales of 158,342 Honda and Acura vehicles in August, up 4.7 percent while breaking the previous record of 156,173 set in August 2005, the company announced today. American Honda year-to-date sales totaled 1,066,320, up 1.6 percent on a daily selling rate basis*. Honda Division posted all-time record sales of 141,906 in August, up 6.7 percent compared to last year while breaking the previous division record of 136,952 set in August 2005. All-time records for individual models include the CR-V with sales of 23,192, up 42.1 percent for the month; the Odyssey with sales of 19,324, up 2.9 percent for the month; and the Fit, up 167.7 percent with sales of 6,408 for the month. Accord sales increased 37.3 percent to 47,360. Ridgeline sales increased 12.8 percent to 4,439. "Demand remains strong for Honda cars and trucks," said Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "The launch of the all-new, redesigned 2008 Honda Accord this month should further increase our sales momentum going into the fourth quarter." Acura Division posted sales of 16,436 with new August records set for the MDX and RDX, resulting in Acura light truck sales increasing by 35.8 percent. Sales of the Acura MDX increased 35.5 percent to 5,816. Acura RDX sales increased 36.7 percent to 1,860. August sales of the TL luxury performance sedan totaled 4,992; the TSX sports sedan totaled 3,245. Previous all-time records for individual Honda models include: CR-V sales of 20,413 (October, 2006), Odyssey sales of 18,773 (August, 2006), and Fit sales of 6,343 (July, 2007). *The daily selling rate (DSR) is calculated with 27 days for August 2007 and August 2006. Year-to-date, the DSR is calculated with 205 days for 2007, versus 204 for 2006. All percentages in this release reflect DSR. For more information about Honda vehicles, please visit www.honda.com. For media inquiries, please go to www.hondanews.com. For more information about Acura vehicles, please visit www.acura.com. For media inquiries, please go to www.acuranews.com.

Ahh too many buttons. :AH-HA_wink: So what is GM's secret for eliminating torque steer? Taller gear ratios? Honda doesn't know what they're doing when they build a FWD car with a weight and power disadvantage that beats its RWD competition around the track? Here is what Road and Track had to say about the TL-S's torque steer: "Torque steer is present when mashing the throttle pedal coming out of turns, but it’s so slight, it’s hardly an issue." Pretty good considering the TL-S is geared aggressively (6-speed manual) with a limited slip differential.

Dropping the program just in time for the '08 Accord. Not much confidence in the new Malibu?

It's a mild hybrid just like the Aura Greenline. Depending on the performance and acceleration it will either be worth it for the price or not. If it's slower than the regular 2.4L model I don't see it being worth it, specially once the 6sp auto becomes available for the 4cyl model and might boost mileage by a point or so.