siegen

I didn't notice this before, but the rear also resembles another one of the more ugly cars in recent memory:

From certain angles, it actually doesn't look bad. The picture on CanadianDriver looks pretty good actually. The grille Toyota uses on its Camry and now the Corolla is still a turn-off though. I think if anything, it's the horrible hood cut-line. Give it a normal hood cut-line, which meets the top of the grille, and put the emblem in the middle of the grille, and it might be pretty nice looking.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all. Let me be the first to welcome you to the site. :AH-HA_wink: And yes, I don't think their recent trouble will cripple them by any means. It may slow their growth and give them a little awakening though. I think GM is being more competitive than ever, and Toyota isn't going to be able to dominate as easily as it was able to during its rise towards the top.

Tundra Grade? Hmm.... what pun to use.... what.. pun to use.... My 1992 Civic hatchback was Tundra grade.. apparently..... me and 2 friends could sit on the tail gate and it wouldn't buckle or bend at all. Could load 110 - 200 lb transmissions in it all day too, without breaking. Well I guess that would make it "Tundra Grade Plus"! Come to think of it, every car I've ever owned is at least Tundra Grade. But then again, I can't complain about less chrome.

No doubt it has gotten heavier, which is what I also believe is the reason for the drop in mileage. But Toyota's spokesman is saying it's due to revised EPA testing methods, which as far as I can tell, is false; the EPA already revised the rating system for the '08 MY, which is why the Corolla's mileage dropped in '08. The Corolla started it! Daaaaadddd!! It was the mileage king when equipped with a manual transmission. But now that its mileage has dropped below the Civic (at least the Civic automatic), I wonder if people will take notice? I thought about that too, but I think it's highly unlikely that they have quoted automatic figures which would be lower. The quote, "Tougher standards make it appear to be less fuel efficient than the 2008 model, which is estimated at 28/37 mpg with a manual transmission" (release), makes it seem like the 27/35 that the '08 number is being compared to, is also from a manual transmission. Although one thing that doesn't quite add up. I find it hard to believe that the extra weight due to more standard features and safety equipment could account for a 1 city 2 hwy mpg drop, unless the weight has increased a lot. Could there be a miscommunication between Toyota's engineers and the marketing department? If that number is for the automatic, and there is an increase of 1 hwy mpg, that would make much more sense in a new model with the same size engine.

Didn't the EPA change the standards for the 2008 MY? Which is why the Corolla went from 32/41 in 2007 to 28/37 in 2008? Now they're saying the EPA changed them again in 2009 which is why the Corolla goes from 28/37 to 25/33? Is this a blatant lie? or did the EPA change something again without anyone knowing?

That's likely with the automatic transmission - the Accord has always been slow with the auto. The last gen Accord managed a 5.9s 0-60 with manual transmission at the hands of car & driver. Road and Track tested an '08 Accord at 5.9s. I haven't found any other tested 0-60 times for the '08 Accord other than R&T. I wouldn't be surprised with the larger engine if it could do another tenth or two better. R&T tested a Civic Si at 6.8s (although Honda estimates 6.7s), which isn't terribly fast, but remember it is a N/A 2.0L engine. It isn't designed for pure straight-line acceleration. I am merely saying that a larger vehicle with a lesser HP engine managed an equal or very close 0-60 time. I'm not sure if the article is misleading, but they state that it "gets to 60 miles per hour...in just more than six seconds". If they are merely giving estimates, and not test results, then the point is not there so much until real test results come in. And it does kill any Honda its size, because Honda would never build a sort-of-compact-small-suv-thing its size to replace a perfectly good compact sedan. Is it just me or does the rear end give off horrible Aztek vibes.

132hp and 4-speed auto; Toyota is going all out with this one! EPA numbers (preliminary) of 27/35 seem alright. If that is for the 5-speed manual, then the automatic will likely get 25/33. Both are less than the current model. The 2.4L mileage is indeed very sad, especially for the low output: 158hp & 22/30 mpg. 2.4L equipped Accords with either 177 (base) or 190 (EX) horsepower engines both get 22/31 with manual trans, and 21/31 with automatic. Tell me, where is all the profit that Toyota is making going? Because it certainly isn't going into new product development, or powertrain development for that matter.

0-60 slower than last gen 240hp Accord sedan? Is it that heavy, or is it just difficult to launch? (I didn't read the whole thing really) And that rear end is horrendous.

Yes, well they were actually going to take the '08 Corolla and carry it over to '09 and just say it's different in the hopes that people will believe them. But I guess people caught on so they had to change the head/tail lights slightly and remove the side molding. Yes, I do get that vibe in certain angles too. Just a more rounded version of the Protege. The Mazda3 has good styling, but doesn't own anything. It is conservative, like the GTI (which I think looks better), and also a bit dated looking (dare I say boring?). The Civic, IMBO, looks newer and more edgy than the Mazda3, but is quite polarizing. I think the Civic Coupe wins in terms of styling for compacts available here.

The head lights don't look like they fit quite right, on the bottom side in the middle. Is it just me or does it look like there's a gap? Overall I get a negative feeling from this car, but it isn't that bad. The back end looks ugly, similar to the Malibu-Maxx, the way the tail lights jut out and the back window slopes inward. The front end looks bland, but not offensive.

The next Fit has 10 cup holders. :AH-HA_wink: The Astra really only has one cup holder? That is a pretty big oversight. That's like offering a sedan with only one openable window.

Lol, nice 5-gal laundry detergent bucket in there. ;]

Fake air vents (especially fake hood vents) are definitely retarded, but these fake exhaust tips are well beyond any fake air vent I have ever seen. It's just wrong what Toyota has done here. It would take next to nothing to make them real, yet Toyota has blatantly left it this way. It almost makes me think perhaps the IS-F Edmunds received had a manufacturer defect where they left those out on accident. And the IS-F interior looks like a Camry interior. The TSX interior trumps it whole-heartedly, starting at $28k.

Foreign Car & Import Driver.com? Getting a bit adjective-happy there?

50% sounds like a big increase, but when it's only 5mpg better (and almost no increase at hwy speeds) it brings things into perspective. I think GM should focus on diesels and offer an auto start/stop feature when idling. Combine the efficiency/torque of the diesel with the one big advantage a hybrid has over a diesel, turning it off at idle. But then that might bring some interesting problems considering the much higher fuel pressures and higher compression ratios in diesels.

Let's not forget one of the most overlooked green cars available, the Civic GX. "the ultra-clean Civic GX produces near zero emissions, makes owners eligible for significant tax credits, and can be refueled with a convenient home refueling appliance. The Civic GX is the only dedicated natural gas-powered passenger vehicle available to retail customers in the United States." Honda is down to only one hybrid (the Civic), but do not forget, they were the first in the U.S. with a hybrid, have made the most fuel efficient hybrid to date, and plan to release more small fuel efficient hybrids (dedicated Fit-sized hybrid or slightly larger within a year [there have already been spyshots], CR-Z maybe), while everyone else goes larger. A clean-diesel powered Accord is coming (and probably CR-V), which will likely get considerably better fuel economy than the Camry/Altima hybrids, at least in real world and on the highway. Honda diesels in Europe have been praised for their quiet operation and fuel efficiency. Honda has its own solar-panel production/research subsidiary. Honda may not have any E85 vehicles available in the U.S., but they do elsewhere in the world (Brazil), and they have made some key advances in the field, such as the technology for producing ethanol from non-food sources: "inedible leaves and stalks of plants, such as rice straw" (press release).

Voted for "other". Ha (Other is almost beating Toyota! Come on OTHER!) Damn, should have bought Microsoft stock before Halo 3 came out.

I saw this on the local news this morning. 40 miles on electric-only, 100mpg overall. Seems pretty good. It's kind of hard to calculate MPG when the vehicle can run on electric only so much. Are the Prius's electric motors powerful enough to propel the Prius in most driving situations?

See my previous post, or read this press release. Honda has had fully certified hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in fleets in the U.S. since Dec 2002. In June 2005, they also leased the first fuel cell vehicle to an individual customer in California (press release). Ah I see. Kind of like an EV-1 with onboard gas generator. Seems like the next logical step.

ManBearPig?

Just because someone is a republican, means they are obligated to not care about the environment? Welcome to the republican party! Oh wait, is that your car? A Corolla? Don't worry son, we'll get you into an Expedition or Suburban right away! They do sell a lot of Flexfuel cars, I see them often. Are there any figures that show how many people are filling up on E85? I thought the fuel cell fleet was being released this Fall 2007, is that a different fleet? Do you have a link to a press release? What is the series system?

I was unaware that he may have already driven the Tahoe. Regardless, even if it was the best thing he drove, it doesn't rationalize or make GM the "standard bearer for the industry", based on a product that isn't available to the public yet. Maybe it will be the "standard" for full-size SUV hybrids (and truck hybrids soon). Now that he could probably say. Just like with the EV-1s, there are no fuel cell vehicles for sale that can be purchased outright, but some manufacturers have them available for lease. Honda (surprise!) was the first to get their fuel cell vehicle (FCX) certified by the EPA and CARB along with safety standards, in June 2002 (link), and delivered their first FCX in Dec 2002. According to that press release, "During the first two-to-three-year period, Honda will lease about 30 fuel cell vehicles in California and the Tokyo metropolitan area". These leases were likely to companies or the government. The first individual customer sale was to a Californian family in June '05 (first customer). GM is rolling out 100 of their latest Fuel Cell prototypes for public lease this year. Whether that will be to individual customers or to fleets, I don't know. Well considering the average 2.4L Automatic Camry driver gets in the mid-high 20's (seems low, but that's after quite a few entries at www.fueleconomy.gov) and the average Prius driver gets 47-48mpg (here); I would say it makes quite a big impact. Assuming Prius drivers don't use their car to drive to/from work every day is a bad assumption I would say.

I understand that, but he seems to be jumping the gun, don't you think? CR just got blasted for giving Toyota's vehicles initially a good rating based on reputation. This journalist is giving GM his blessing based on even less. Of course this journalist's voice means nothing compared to the word of CR, but I'm still going to nit pick at it. :AH-HA_wink: When GM makes a serious dent in Toyota's hybrid sales, exceeds them in hybrid sales, or provides a truly high-mpg vehicle for us, then I will cheer on GM. The volt certainly meets these requirements, but we can't say anything until it is available to the public. In regards to FOG's comment: "Seen the Volt or the hydrogen concepts by chance?!?!?! Nothing has been 'fumbled away'" in response to the article: "They were a technological leader, and they fumbled that leadership away," Concepts do not make you the leader when other manufacturers already have production versions in the hands of customers. They had a production lease vehicle, and it showed that they were the technological "leader" in that area, but they fumbled it away, whether due to politics or simply cost. Now they are not the leader. They might have a leg up on Toyota in the plug-in hybrid area, but that's still a couple years away. And until then, Toyota's Pious will still keep them in the lead of electric-powered mainstream vehicles, even if it isn't that good. Speaking of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles; GM started working in that field a long time ago, but they are certainly not the leader in that area anymore, having been beaten to the lease-market by nearly 5 years. Although the by-wire technology is certainly a leap forward. I would say they are the leader in that area, showing a completely by-wire electric concept drivable vehicle in 2002.