siegen

Isn't the new coupe supposed to be a 2+2?

You're coming at this discussion with a viewpoint that the way things are done in Europe are correct and any deviation from that way is incorrect. From our viewpoint, Europe offers too many needless choices. It is indeed a culture difference, however you are trying to use your culture's viewpoint on this topic to argue your point in this culture where things are quite different. Anything less than 2.5L is not insignificant, that is a considerable exaggeration. Sales of compact and sub-compact cars make up a very sizable portion of cars sold. If you consider the sheer number of mid-size sedans and small crossovers sold with 2.4L engines, you will find that the majority of car sales are indeed under 2.5L (I don't have the time to actually verify this assumption, but it isn't a stretch by any means). Note that by car sales I am not including truck/full-size SUV sales, which still make up a ridiculously large percentage of sales here (however that is changing). On the contrary, I believe we need more diesels in larger cars and crossovers, and more hybrids in smaller cars.

The Hyundai coupe will likely not compete with roadsters like the Solstice/Sky, MX-5, or S2000 successor. The G37/370Z and Mustang/Camaro/Challenger will indeed be competitors though. I am not impressed with Hyundai's interior quality. The designs are pleasing, as long as you don't actually touch or interact with any of it. The exterior designs also leave a lot to be desired, although the Tiburon has been their most acceptable and nice looking models.

Vehicle size, weight, and aerodynamics play a much larger role in fuel economy than engine displacement. Comparing a 1.8L to a 2.0L or 2.2L is not so cut and dry as you have stated. The larger does not always have the performance advantage while the smaller does not always have the FE advantage, as the Astra demonstrates. In my opinion, a vehicle should be designed around a single engine, and the engine should be designed with the entire vehicle in mind. They should complement each other. Simply putting a smaller displacement engine in to get better fuel economy is the "jerry-rigged" way of doing it -- in the same capacity as putting a giant engine into a car not designed specifically for it (*caugh*IS-F*caugh*lol). The FE benefits should be outweighed by the performance losses. Put a 1.5L (Fit engine) into the Civic, and it might return a point or two better MPG in the city, but will be a complete dog. US and EU buyers are different. We don't compare vehicles based on engine size. If a 1.8L and 2.0L powered car are roughly the same in performance, size, and FE, then they are indeed direct competitors.

The Civic engine produces 140hp/128tq, at least here. I did miss the Caliber 1.8L engine, for some reason I thought it only came with a 2.0L. That is another example of a too-small displacement engine in a very heavy car. Then there's the Versa 1.8L, but it is a sub-compact here and does not directly compete with the compacts.

Choice increases cost. I like having choices, but 5 different gas engines and a range of diesels is too many. Things may be different over there, but here if the cars are in the same price range and vehicle size, they are comparable. If one offers a 1.8L while another offers a 2.2L, it makes no difference.

Zonda R

Don't forget the 1.8L 140HP civic engine. I drive a 1.8L Integra and 1.9L Escort Wagon often. The Escort is sufficient for normal use, although it is a bit slow accelerating onto freeways and passing, it is adequate but not fun. The Integra is of course quite fast and fun. I believe it also weighs a tad more than the Escort. The gearing and powerband must be superior since it has the displacement and weight disadvantage. These are both 5-speed manuals. The 2.5 Jetta isn't the best comparison to the Astra, and I haven't tried to make that comparison although I suppose some people will. The 2.2L Cobalt, despite the larger engine, is a direct competitor, as well as the plethora of 2.0L compacts (Kia, Hyundai, Ford, etc). They are the same price range and offer similar mileage. The Astra may have a better chassis, better handling, and European styling.

I understand they are no longer in production, I am just picking at your word choice. Here in the US, there are very few 1.8's. The Civic, Corolla, and Astra are the only compacts with a 1.8l that I can think of off the top of my head. The Astra happens to be in the middle horsepower-wise of those two, which would make it average, not "one of the most powerful". The B18C engines were the most powerful for their time, but everyone has moved on and most start with 2.0L or larger. As stated by others, we are not saying that the Astra's engine is weak for its size, just it is in a heavier vehicle than it ought to be, and is mated to poor gearing. The Civic's engine is a SOHC unit, variable displacement (using vtec to control valve opening timing and duration, allowing some of the intake charge to move back into the IM depending on load), and is designed to be economical, yet also happens to deliver more horsepower and torque. If Honda wanted to use a 1.8L on the Civic Si instead of a 2.0L, it would likely produce around 190-200hp. However, people would complain even more than they do now that the engine lacks torque and low-rpm power. Just FYI, the Civic Si coupe weighs about the same as the Astra 3-door. The Civic coupe EX weighs about 170 lbs less than both, mostly thanks to the SOHC engine and economy drivetrain. The Astra is like a Civic Si with power equivalent to the Civic EX, and it just doesn't work. It needs both.

*caugh*b18c*caugh*197hp*caugh*1995*caugh* :AH-HA_wink: The Corolla and Civic both have 1.8L engines and deliver much better fuel economy and better acceleration. The Corolla is nearly as heavy too. The only cars that the 1.8L Astra matches or beats on fuel economy have 2.3 and 2.5 engines, although the 1.8L will likely produce less emissions (which is certainly becoming a factor here). GM needs to work some magic with the gearing perhaps. A 6-speed auto with gearing to match the engine output and driving conditions could do worlds for the fuel economy and acceleration.

I wonder what the engine revs are at 80mph in this thing. 5,000 rpms?

Industrial sized air conditioners positioned strategerically around the north and south poles?

Does the Euro Civic Type R fair well against competition over there? I've heard nothing but rave reviews for it.

Good post empowah, I was going to reply but there's really no reason because all the data is right there. Those appear to be specs for the manual transmission models. Except I see at least one discrepancy: The manual-trans Corolla is rated to 26/35, and 27/35 is for the automatic model. The Astra falls behind even further when you equip them all with automatics. The Astra suffers from being a bit over-weight and having a 4-speed automatic.

I know why GM only offers the 1.8L here, being the only engine offered with both manual and automatic. They could have at least brought over the high-performance 2.0 version, even in small quantities. The 2.2L Ecotech, being such an efficient and good engine, why doesn't GM ship it over there for use in European markets?

The strength of an engine is relative to the car it is in. 138bhp is average for a 1.8 liter, however the engine is weak for the Astra, due to the Astra's heft. The Astra's performance might fly as a base model Cobalt, but the Astra is supposed to be sporty, and certainly not slower than the Cobalt. The Astra would really benefit from the 2.2L Cobalt engine, which is something I've said from the start. European tastes are different of course. A 1.8 liter 118 HP Audi A4 would never fly over here, yet sells well in Europe.

Weak engine, heavy car, poor fuel economy. But it has European styling! Wait, I figured out a tag-line GM can use: "The sporty hatchback, with blazing CR-V performance!" I'm surprised GM has managed to get as many journalists on board as they have.

I guarantee he didn't spend anywhere near that. Whoever did the JDM Integra front end conversion did a horrific job, and those don't even look like OEM head lights. It's also missing trim pieces, and the doors probably don't line up or shut properly given the shoddy work elsewhere on the car. Steel wheels too. Overall, this car is a piece of junk, and I could probably build a replica of it for around $6000 including the cost of the car. However, if the work was done right and all the details ironed out, with a nice paintjob and rims it would make a good show car.

It's a good chop. Look at the cut line between the head light and the grille. That blur is a fairly common sign of a photoshop. I'm sure I could examine the picture further and find more give aways, but that's after just a quick glance. It is a good chop though, and definitely hotter than the M1.

I've been seeing many new Accords, as well as new Malibu's, on the streets lately. While I liked the exterior look of the new Malibu initially, even though it was a bit bland, and I found many flaws with the new Accord, my viewpoint is starting to reverse. It's funny because the Malibu still looks better in photos, while the Accord looks disjointed if anything in most of them. In person though, the Accord is sharp, even classy in upper trim levels. The Malibu is more bland than the Camry, and it has an ugly nose to match it.

It looks like it's trying to be a Camaro from the front, and I know it sounds crazy, but I think I'd rather have the Camaro. The rest of it is horrible. Very disproportioned, horrible wheels, ricey details. Yuck.

My thoughts exactly.

Sounds like the Prius wasn't in its best working condition, maybe needs an oil change. The owner probably thinks hybrids don't need oil changes. lol

Lol you're right, it is the only decent looking small car; and it probably isn't selling well because of all the good looking small cars. Assuming that the Astra is the nicest looking small car, it's going to need a lot more than looks to sell. Worse power/weigh ratio than its competition combined with mid-pack FE numbers, and of course no cup holders --a big one there!

The Solstice is indeed expressive, in a bumblebee, VW Bug, "Cars", Yaris hatch, kind of way. The curves give it a lot of character.