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The Versa is larger than the Civic sedan?

QUOTE(CSpec @ Jul 14 2008, 01:32 PM) [snapback]411682[/snapback]4 FAST 4 FURIOUS Nah, it's 3 3ast 3 3urious!

This thread has the potential to go on forever. And it will accomplish nothing. What we see on the road means nothing, because we only see a minutely small percentage of the vehicle market. And more importantly, people tend to notice certain cars based on their unique experiences. Vehicles they own or have owned tend to get noticed more, as well as vehicles that they either like or strongly dislike. If you are a typical Toyota basher, which I am guilty of as well, you will notice every single Toyota stalled on the side of the road, every bit of rust on a Toyota, and pretty much anything you can find to complain about a Toyota. When a car you are fond of rolls by, you are naturally inclined to gloss over any problems, or attempt to chalk them up to the vehicle owner or simply not notice them. It is a natural reaction for everyone and nobody is truly unbiased.

Transportation does use a lot of resources. We need to convert all the China barges to hydrogen power!

I'm 12. I look forward to my first car. My parents said I can get one when I'm 16. I'm gonna get one of the cars from Fast and the Furious, CAUSE THEY'RE AWESOME !

The new TSX has been up sales wise for the last 2 months since its introduction. I believe it has already set a record for the TSX over the old model. Import brand snob? Wow, you're not pulling any punches. I'm hurt. The TL isn't designed to compete with a V8-powered 4 door muscle car. Settling it on "the ring" would be a useless gesture. A V6-powered CTS or STS would be a similar comparison on the other hand. The G8 might compete "neck and neck" with a BMW in performance, but that is hardly the only thing that matters. The TL is not a slow car. The TL-S 6MT beat the IS350 and G35 around Willow Springs by a considerable margin (thread). It is well engineered. Not sure if it would beat those cars on the Nurburgring. I'm sure there are plenty of RWD cars the TL would smoke around any race track. The TL makes plenty of sense. It is powerful, has lots of standard luxury features, looks nice, and is priced below its competition.

Is that water it is sitting in? Any production shots of it yet?

The main thing the G8 has going for it is that it is very athletic looking. Otherwise, it is a very plain vehicle. It does not give off a premium feel whatsoever. But then it is a muscle car after all.

The rear end has some serious Lexus GS styling cues, but I think once we see a rear 3/4 shot (for better or for worse) it will not resemble it so much. The current Camry head lights borrowed heavily from the previous TL and TSX. Otherwise I don't see the Camry resemblance in the least bit.

I don't get how Autoblog can call it a "love-it-or-hate-it" grille. I think it's a "hate-it-or-not-care-too-much" grille, I can't imagine too many people really loving it. It will eventually become like the BMW grille though, nothing particularly attractive about it or great, but it just says "BMW" and works. That is if Acura doesn't change the grille again in the next FMC cycle.

Mazda front? Looks like a clear evolution of the current TL. It's probably going to look a lot better in person, as most Hondas do. The TSX's I see in person now look pretty good and make the old model look very dated, even though I still don't like most of the TSX press photos. So far the new TL looks much more premium and substantial than the G8, but then the G8 isn't supposed to look premium. The CTS is kind of a mess. If you think the fender flare looks out of place on this TL, take a real close look at the CTS; lots of odd design decisions and it lacks cohesiveness, but it has the right bling parts to make a good initial impression.

I really like the fog lamps and lower grille of the new TL. And those wheels are great. I'm so glad they didn't fuxor up the head lights. The back end is probably going to be the most polarizing and controversial part of the new TL, based on the spy shots.

But at least it's a good start; and given the price of solar cells why not? Honda has its own solar power subsidiary, Honda Soltec, which manufacturers solar cells. I wouldn't be surprised, if consumers react well to this, to see a similar trend on their hybrid cars. I would like to have a solar powered hydrogen station at my house powering my home electrical needs and generating hydrogen for a Honda Clarity.... but alas I don't live in California dream on....

The reason we blast Toyota isn't because we have no clue about how fuel prices affect vehicle sales, or because we think Toyota has magical powers that protect them from problems that befall other companies. This business decision on Toyota's part is a result of their entering a lucrative market segment precisely at a time when that segment is starting to fall. I don't think anybody who follows world news or the automotive industry is surprised by the increase in gas prices. It has been a long time coming. Toyota knew it, but the profit was great enough to overcome the risk. Toyota, like all Japanese automakers, started with small cars. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, selling small cars has not been to "cover their bases", it is their bread and butter (as we call it) and always has been and always will be. That's how they broke into this market after all. Are you suggesting that Toyota is wise for not dropping their small cars when fuel prices were low? Once again we are talking specifically about the NA market; and we don't take kindly to that wishy washy nomenclature around here. :AH-HA_wink: They would be respectful if they achieved that size without sacrificing ethical company behavior. If they had a guiding company principle that they stuck to, or truly wanted to help the environment. Toyota's sole purpose is to make money, improve profit margins, and increase market share; and it is obvious based on their company decisions and actions. You may say that all companies are like that, and it is true to an extent, they are in business to make money. But there's a big difference between a company that pushes something because they feel it is important and a company that pushes something because they know they can make money off of it. Why do you think Toyota joined Nascar? To advance their engine technology? Toyota overworks their employees and buys from low-rate parts suppliers with unethical labor practices. We have read news articles about this and it makes you wonder, with Toyota's marketing and financial power, just how many other behaviors have gone unnoticed. Toyota exploits markets that go directly against the image of the company they spend millions of dollars in advertising to achieve. Toyota advertises their hybrids, their environment-friendly image, and yet for every single hybrid they sell they also sell a full-size BOF truck or SUV. Toyota is a business after all, and exploiting the high profit margin full-size SUV/Truck market is a wise business decision, or at least it was. But it certainly does not gain Toyota any respect. If hybrids became unpopular, Toyota would drop them overnight too.

It definitely looks more modern and muscular than the current. My only gripe, from what I can see here, is the roofline as it meets the rear of the car. It looks a little too generic. And of course the grille, which could be better, but at least isn't bad. This redesign looks like it will attract luxury buyers more than the current. I like it better than the current, which is getting a little dated looking.

From the last page: "Sourced as it is from some four locations—one in Fremont, California, one in Cambridge, Ontario, and two in Japan—and with only about 50-percent U.S.-sourced content, the 2009 Toyota Corolla is the one car in this group that could be said to have dual citizenship."

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I don't think you can make this generalization without something substantial to back it up. If there was a tank of fuel stabilizer, it would certainly be the duty of the dealer to fill it up every oil change or scheduled maintenance. And if the owner doesn't go to the dealer and does let it run out, it's not like the car is suddenly going to stop working. I don't think you can lump Volt buyers in the same group as economy buyers.

Wow, way to downplay Honda. Fared well? More like killed it. Last month they sold 74% as many vehicles as Toyota, without any full-size trucks, SUVs, or near the volume of hybrids. If this continues another couple years, Honda may very well overtake Toyota in the US. Of course I would never want that to happen, and I fully expect Toyota to shift production to smaller vehicles and start to see increases by the end of the year (chances are they will still be down YTD though). The real story here, I think, is that Toyota simply isn't supplying enough smaller cars and hybrids to its dealers. Their timing and flexibility seem to be off.

And there you have it, the key to Toyota's flexibility, temp workers. Any idea the percentage of temp workers other makes use?

Toyota must be kicking themselves. Had they kept the Tundra smaller they could have leveraged its efficiency against the other full-size pickup trucks. They could have saved the money that they spent building the new factory and retooling all of their dealers to work on the larger Tundra. Now they are having to halt production for 3 months because sales are far below expectations. Well maybe Toyota did anticipate this, and also anticipates a return to full-size SUV's and trucks in the near future. You mean subcompact and compact, right? Toyota is the world's most respected company after all. :AH-HA_wink:

I just saw that today as well.

And if GM had kept their mouths shut to start with, they wouldn't have to worry about this. I agree that it is probably packaging and size constraints more than anything. I guess you could spin it that way. The reality is GM originally said 600 miles, but due to cost/packaging/weight constraints, they are forced to reduce the range to 360 miles. It is not an improvement. The original 600 mile range may have been unrealistic though, but that has been GM's problem all along with the Volt: saying things way too early and then having to make changes, often times compromises that generally don't sit well with the media.

I am fairly sure the Prius makes a profit. There was an article way back in '03/'04, talking about how Toyota was taking a loss on each one at first, but that was only in the first few years. It's been out for 8 years now, and sells in great quantities, I'm sure Toyota makes a profit on them. It is probably not a large profit though as they are pricing it to compete with the Civic hybrid, which is far less expensive to produce (shared platform, simpler, smaller, cheaper hybrid system). Toyota is still denying that the government funded Synergy at all, while Jim Press says the Japanese government paid for 100% of R&D. There's really no evidence available to us so who knows. We do know that Toyota has been known to use parts suppliers with unethical labor practices.

GM is counting on the Volt to do exactly what? Single handedly turn the whole company around and bring in a profit? I think GM is playing into their own fantasy and I don't see anything but disaster at the end of it. In case GM hasn't noticed, their car sales are up, at least for the more prominent or fuel efficient models like the Malibu, Cobalt, Aveo, CTS, etc etc. How about instead of investing hordes of cash in a useless marketing vehicle like the Volt, focus on better cars. GM has this notion that it takes lots of green marketing hype to develop a good image, attempting to take a page from the Toyota book. What they haven't noticed, apparently, is that the one company who is thriving in this automotive downturn only makes one hybrid that accounts for less than 2% of its monthly sales. This company has had over 10% increases the last two months in a row, thanks almost entirely to three strong car models. The solution to GM's problems, as I see it, is simple. The Malibu is already a strong vehicle and well established, if GM keeps it fresh and strong, with a solid model cycle change, there's no reason it can't make its way to 30-50k/month sales. The Cobalt and Aveo, once those are replaced with strong models, will improve GM's image and their sales substantially. The fact that the Aveo is seeing sales increases despite being a piece of junk is proof enough; imagine if it was a good vehicle like the Malibu.