siegen

Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean Honda needs to do it to be successful. Sure a V8 RWD Luxury Sedan larger or similar to the TL would be a nice addition to the Acura line up, and would undoubtably sell well, that isn't what they need right now neccessarily. FWD has always been a better setup for economy and consumers that don't track their cars (which consists of, what 99% of luxury sedan buyers??). Buyer's appeal for RWD is based solely on the "image" and the fact that previous sporty cars and BMW's etc, have always been RWD. I think the Acura TSX has already proven time and time again, that FWD is a workable layout if done right. I'm not saying FWD is better than RWD, I'm just saying, for 99% of buyers, it will work exactly the same, and may keep some of the less experienced drivers from ending up in a ditch. This is the Honda concept FCX. It will be a hydrogen fuel cell-based full size sedan. This is the direction Honda will most likely be going for their non-sports cars. People may bash them for this, but Honda is without a doubt looking to the future and may be taking some hits for not being like everyone else right now. Do you think V8 RWD luxury sedans are always going to be around?

Fastback is a term used for cars which have a rear windshield slope of less than 20°. This reduces drag and lift caused by air detaching as it flows over the hood and cannot follow the contour of the body such as in sedans, etc.

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a Kia Rio without considerable front-end damage. :blink: They must have bad brakes or something. But then again, bang for the buck. You can't beat a $7,000 brand new car with an ok warranty, even if everything is sub-par (my friend used to own an '04 Accent).

That didn't make any sense at all. One sided argument? I'm starting to think you're just a troll. I don't suppose they have moderators around here that.. well, moderate people like this? I like Apple. I think it's great that the computer revolution started here (Microsoft is only a 25 minute drive away from me). I couldn't tell you how many of the parts that go into the iPod are imported. I know Apple likes to do a lot of production in house (which is why their computers are so expensive), so who knows. What's your point with that? I was mearly pointing out that a lot of good things are made in America, but they don't do everything the best. So why would you want to beat up people that buy foreign cars? That's sort of a hypocritical statement. I'll bet your whole outfit you're wearing right now was made in a foreign country. What you don't understand is that the U.S. relies on other countries for a lot of things. We are becoming less and less a production-based Country. Most of our economy is now based around resale and repair. This is not a bad thing, however most people wouldn't accept this fact if it hit them in the face. Must be that pride getting in the way.

Oh, and btw my car was assembled mostly in Canada (although a lot of the parts were imported from Japan). Does that make me a hoser? rofl Swallowit, how about Video Cameras? or TV's? Or the billions of products made in China? I'll bet you own more imported stuff than domestic made stuff. For me, my Danner boots are made in Oregon, because they do the best job. For a work truck, we buy GM, because they do the best job at making work trucks. For my personal car however, Acura (Honda) does the best job IMO, so I buy from them. The U.S. is great at a lot of things, but they aren't the best at everything. Why don't you stop buying gas? Because guess what that's imported too.

Wow, that was insightful. Maybe if Honda/Acura didn't make such good cars, I wouldn't buy them. Until then, Acura and Honda get my money (well since I bought used, the car dealer got my money). You can beat me up if you want, but from your post I figure you're about 15-17 years old. Good luck :lol:

That Yellow Honda is old, and shouldn't be compared to newer cars. The Kia has an ok body design, but the headlights are the worst I've ever seen, I honestly wouldn't be caught dead driving it (and would rather drive the Yellow Honda than that thing).

Looks like a horribly riced out Audi A6 or A8. There's definately potential in that design, but the headlights and taillights needs to change completely (as well as the front grille).

I know what you mean. A long time ago I did want to get the body kit and the neon lights, because I thought it was cool. I grew out of that a couple years ago, thankfully. I drive a 1999 Integra. Only mods are suspension (yes I did it right with custom shocks to match the spring rate and drop), a custom air intake box with K&N filter, and a few other nik-naks. You can see the 2004 Sierra behind it, I drive that very often. In fact I've probably put half of the 16000 miles that are on it, so I know it quite well =) It's a good truck, I don't really have any basis to compare it on though. I don't really have a lot of plans for my Teg, as I don't want to spend a lot of money on it right now (saving up for a down payment on a house). OH, and just for shits and giggles, my old Civic. I know the rims are hideous, but I was young! Oh, and that Ford in the background had over 250,000 miles on it before we sold it to a collector. Original engine and transmission, still driven to work every day.

There's nothing like a manual transmission. I honestly don't think anything will ever replace it, and it will always be an option even when CVT transmissions are standard on every car. It's hard to explain why, I think it has something to do with having your feet and hands directly connected to the car, in a way. Being able to set the engine free at any moment. It also has the most flexibility as far as driving is concerned (being able to rev anytime, between gears, etc. Being able to feather the clutch).

RWD, 6sp Manual, 2004+ S2000 (the one with the F22C engine). 240whp with 2.2 n/a liters in a 2800lb Roadster.

Yeh I hate those kind of kids. They really give us a bad name. They don't speak proper english either. The only good part about them, is they will buy parts just because someone tells them to, regardless of price (as long as it will give them more power!). haha :lol: Oh well.

Haha. Yeh because those things are beautiful. Definately better than the new Civic Si :P Personally, I liked the Concept model more. Of course it wouldn't take much to make the production Civic Si look as good as it (minus the red calipers though). I would also go for gloss black rims with a polished lip, or a darker, more deep gunmetal like what came on the DC2 00-01 Integra Type R. These rims just look a little flat:

Honda was the first back in 1990 with the DOHC Vtec engine in the Integra (and 1991 with the NSX). That is for USDM they might have had it a year earlier in Japan. Yes everyone copies it, just like everybody offers automatic transmissions and a/c, regardless of if GM invented them or not. JDM Integra Type R (DC2), 110hp/liter. Not a race car, paper air filter, chambered muffler, good emissions and 30mpg freeway (actual mileage). It's pretty easy to get these cars above 120hp/liter at the wheels too with just intake and exhaust systems, adjustable cam gears, and good tuning with Hondata or similar. A lot of the things I listed were indeed Improvements on current technology, and not new technology all together. The Honda IMA is just a Hybrid system like Toyota's Synergy. It works quite well, giving the current insight above 60mpg, with all the modern conveniences (yes the VW Lupo may get good mpg too, but so does the 1993-95 Civic VX, however they don't have things like A/C, P/S, Airbags, power windows, ABS, power mirrors, etc). Not to mention the Insight with IMA was the first Hybrid car available in America, and still holds the best mileage (it also has one of the lowest Frontal Area's of any production car available). Explained above.

Ricer fans? Come on, that's lame. I think several people have already replied stating that GM has been making aluminum block V8's, you don't need to chime in. How is your STS V8 "the most sophisticated engine in the world in 1993"? At least give me some links or something to back that up. I'm not saying GM is low-tech, but that statement isn't really helping. Offroad, yes. SH-AWD isn't designed for offroad, it is designed to control over and understeer to give a car neutral handling. It can over-accelerate one of the back wheels in order to give the car more rotation, and it can transfer up to 70% of the power to one back wheel, or both front wheels, or divide it accordingly between front and both back wheels. SH-FWD did the same thing with the front wheels, making a FF car (namely the Prelude which it came in) handle with much less understeer.

A few technology advances and improvements on current technology by Honda (most developed in the last 6 years). Vtec (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control) - First car to rev to 8000rpm reliably. Also first car to produce 100hp/liter in a n/a engine in 1989. VTC (Valve Timing Control) - adjusts valve timing up to 50 degrees. This means capability to have zero overlap at idle, but considerable overlap and scavenging at high rpm operation. Further recuding emissions and increasing mpg and performance at all rpms. SH-AWD (Super Handling-All Wheel Drive) SH-FWD (Same as SH-AWD except FF only) IMA (Integrated Motor Assist) - More Ultra-Lean burn (65:1 air/fuel) I-Vtec engine First Hydrogen fuel-cell car CMS (for people that suck at driving :P ) Insight (60mpg+ using IMA, first car to achieve this high MPG back in 99) Intelligent Night-Vision Dual-stage IM i-CTDi (diesel) HondaJet and Turbofan engines

Whether or not an engine block is built using aluminum or cast iron does not say anything about how high or low tech the company is. GM still produces all their marine blocks out of cast iron. Someone saying: Does not prove that GM is high tech, it is simply a statement. We can extract from that statement, that they have been building aluminum V8's for over a decade, that they run off 87, and the rest is just opinion.

The 93-95 Civic HB VX could get 50mpg+ easily. It did it because it only weighed a shade over 2000 lbs, had a incredibly efficient SOHC 1.5L vtec engine, and it even came with ultra light, alloy wheels. However, no passenger side airbag, no power windows, no a/c, no ABS, etc, and if you leave it parked in a movie theatre parking lot, it will get stolen. Like you said, it is a lot harder for current cars to get good MPG, and the only really good way is to use a hybrid powerplant.

Ah, forgive me for my lack of knowledge when it comes to automotive V8's. All the new marine V8's I deal with are still cast iron (as well as V6's). Of course those are in much more unforgiving environments. In that case, I'd bet a strategic alliance between GM and Honda would be profitable for both organizations (just like Honda's alliance with GE). Honda could use a good V8. I'm not saying that Honda couldn't design one just as good, but they probably don't have the time. The V8 in my dads 2004 Sierra gets over 20mpg on the freeway (with freeway gearing). I'm not sure what size it is, but it's the small one for the half ton trucks. That MPG is still a little lacking, but it is over 5L. If Honda wanted a V8, they'd probably go for the smaller 4.0L like you mentioned. Are these push-rod V8's still?

Does GM make any aluminum block V8's? If not, I highly doubt Honda would want anything to do with it. And before you say an aluminum V8 is rubbish, think about it. Honda's aluminum L4's and V6's have done just fine, why would a V8 be any different? I can't think of any technology GM has that Honda needs. The Corvette gets such good gas mileage because its light, has a small frontal area (and a low coefficient of friction), and can cruise down the freeway at less than 1500rpms. Even a gas guzzling V8 could give a car like that ok gas mileage (I assume the C6's engine is pretty well designed too).

The Euro 5 door Hatchback is really nice. I wish they offered it over here. I only thing I don't like is the headlights, I wish they were more like the USDM Si.

This isn't a surprise at all. Right now is not the time any company should be putting a lot of money into V8 developement, unless it is a hybrid assisted V8 or something to that effect. Regardless of how efficient a Honda V8 may be, I don't think Honda wants people to think they don't care about the environment by developing a V8 right now. Although I can't wait for the V10 to come out in the next NSX in a few years (assuming they don't go back to the drawing board like they did after the HSC). Then on the other side, Honda is without a doubt losing sales to BMW and the like, who have V8 sedans, while Honda only has its 3.5L and 3.2L V6 sedans. And not to mention the 2.4L L4 sedans (which are still beating BMW's V8s and every other manufacturer in the Speed World Challenge). If Honda could develope a V8 powered RL with RWD or SH-AWD, I'd bet that would be a hot seller. Believe it or not, a lot of people judge the performance of a car based entirely off of how many cylinders it has, which of course is rediculous. Unfortunately these people buy cars, and there are a lot of them, so Honda has to appeal to them too. I don't have any doubt that when Honda decides the time is right, they can develope a V8 that will outperform all other similarly sized V8's in every aspect. Why? They've only done it with every other high end engine they've developed. They have an abundance of technology to put into it (such as VTEC, VTC, cylinder cut, IMA, and any new technology they're working on right now), and they have the R & D and patience to get things right. Of course a large part of the American market will still reject it because it's a Honda. We'll stick to our "econoboxes", while you stick to your polluting, gas guzzling, full-size sedans, SUVs, and trucks =P It's nice to see car manufacturers that are worried about future generations and not curent profit.

Every new car will look like some other car in certain views, it's unavoidable. The new Civic sedan is ugly in a useful kind of way, lol. It looks like it is very functional and roomy for its size. But the downside is to make it so roomy on the inside, the exterior look had to be compromised. I would never drive one personally. I can't wait til the Si's come out and some real-life pictures are posted.

Most of the dynos you'll see with a nice smooth torque curve are a result of the inertia of the wheels smoothing the TQ curve out (or an automated process to make the dyno more "pretty"). This dyno has not been, and is the raw data being derived straight from the hub. I'm not too knowledgable on the Cobalt's specs, but I highly doubt the torque curve is flat until redline. Has Chevy developed a system similar to vtec yet? I suppose a supercharger is the easy way out. Does anybody have any dynos of a stock Cobalt SS? Preferably on a Dynopack and not a Chassis Dyno (since those can be +/- 10whp or more off).

The Civic is making very nice HP from 6100rpm to 8100rpm. That's not horrible at all. The 6 speed transmission will help keep the Civic in that rpm range easier, with only 1st -> 2nd and 2nd -> 3rd dropping it out of that range by only a small amount. The higher displacement of most GM engines compared to Honda engines usually gives them a higher peak Torque output. However, the torque curve usually drops off quickly in part because the head is designed to breathe in a certain RPM range (like 0-5000rpm). Since Horsepower = (Torque * RPM) / 5252, this usually gives the GM engines a similar peak TQ and peak HP number (like 200 and 200 for the cobalt). Then you'll see a Honda engine that has a peak TQ of 135, but a peak HP of 210 (like the JDM ITR), and a lot of uneducated people will laugh and make jokes like "You're rice if you have twice the HP as TQ" (I love that one). When they really do not understand engines at all (nor do they understand how well designed Honda Vtec heads are). There's two things wrong with that statement, first you're looking at just the peak numbers, and two; Horsepower is horsepower, regardless of torque. Honda uses RPM's to make more HP rather than displacement (to put it simply). Honda engines rev higher and breathe better both at the high end and low end. I would like to see a 1.8L N/A GM engine make the kind of power the b18c specR does (or even the non-vtec b18b LS engine). And finally I'm not supporting the Civic neccessarily (although I do like it), I just want to bring factual information to this board, as I'm sure you guys are used to the usually "Honda Fanatics". And for the record, one of my close friends used to own a 95 white Cavalier with a few mods (mainly appearance), and I honestly liked that car a lot. It was sad when he flipped it merging onto the freeway =P.