caddycruiser

Very good points, and it's a breath of fresh air to FINALLY see those types of pieces in any domestic car, let alone a GM. Truth be told, most Toyotas and even Hondas (though to a typically lower level than the bigger 'Yota) are chalk full of cheapness here and there--but somehow, it isn't something that instantly smacks you in the face when you're in or around one. It's kind of subtle, and overall, you just get the impression of a tightly built car with generally nice materials, with pieces that all work perfectly without much flare. Not like, say, how a car like the Grand Am (IMHO), made you want to barf upon entry... Actually, of a more interesting note, some of the worst interiors (purely materials, I'm talking) anymore, are coming from Chrysler. They don't spend a lot of time or money anymore on making things soft and supple or even ultra-pricey feeling--BUT, the general level of styling, of engineering, and overall "solid" feel allow them to get away with it. Proof that several ultimately strong details can completely blind people to the less than stellar bits. Problem is, even with GM using such generally nice interior materials and even build quality anymore, their attractiveness is still made less visible by the fact that there's still "that old 4-speed gearbox" or the "antique and underpowered 3.8L". If they'd just get a few more of the "biggies" up and past the par, they'd probably be getting a lot nicer overall reviews.

Not to sound a little off hear, but something struck me with this post. Remember Saturn, back in the early 90's, when they were doing really well? The cars were (and somewhat still are) absolute garbage, but people were so refreshed and happy to finally have a car brand with a dealer network that made them feel comfortable and happy when buying a car for once, that they overlooked things like the rattle can build quality and engines louder than a lawn mower. Now that most GM vehicles have advanced so far past those horrid times for cars, but are still "ho-hum" in most ways, it's a combination of perfectly nice "okay" cars matched with a buying experience that's like going to a big mall, run by 16 and 17 year olds. Clearance price stickers everywhere, can't find what you want, can't find a salesperson that knows much more than how to chew gum, etc. I'm not saying it's the best practice in the world to sell hum-merchandise strongly based only on a terrific buying experience, but if it works, it works. A similar idea in the "Return to Greatness" just *might* help GM get a little more momentum right now, even with several cars that are considerably below par. Ahh well...take it or leave it...that's about as far as much as I can type with finals on my mind...

Just saw the "3rd" new Lucerne commercial, the one with the decibal-reading head (Mr. Arkin, or whatever it is), and that one is actually a little better than the stupid "millimeter" or heated washer fluid one that have been playing non-stop. Same dark, cold (and kinda ugly) coloring to the whole thing, but actually does one or two complete pans of the full interior and talks just a bit about how the head is used in Buick's QuietTuning, in a sorta jovial way. Not amazing, but pretty good. One problem though: When panning around the interior, even in the horrible black/blue/gray death lighting they're using, the "black chunk" of a center piece with the radio and A/C jumps out like a sore thumb :blink: Looked a little funny at first, but then I remembered what I was seeing...GM CSD...GM Center Stack Disease... :huh: Too bad THAT had to stick out in a overall pretty nice ad :rolleyes:

Oh, now that's a good comment to make :rolleyes: If the crossovers can comfortably seat as many people as the -370's and have cargo space, most people won't give two hoots that it doesn't still have an antique-style truck chassis underneath. All they'll see is that it's a lot more fuel efficient, a LOT nicer to drive, etc. Also, right now, the current short-wheelbase models can't hold a candle to the new '06 Explorer/Mountaineer. Actually, even before the redesign, they hardly could. Regardless of the reasons GM cited back in '01, the Explorer's independent rear has allowed a 3rd seat in the same "short" wheelbase as every other Explorer, and one that is truthfully quite comfortable--even more so than the butt on the floor, knees in your face setup that persists in even the '07 Tahoe. It's those kind of things that matter to most real-world buyers (especially since most are coming out of cars and would NEVER drive a minivan), and that's one area where GM was way behind the curve. TAKE HOME POINT: Had the TB/Envoy had only a wheelbase like the current "short" ones from the start, BUT also incorporated things like an independent rear, comfortable and fold-flat 3rd row, tighter build quality, and a less sloppy driving feel, they'd probably be doing a lot better today.

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Very true. Forgot about that. Remember back to seeing the first '06 GP to hit our local dealers lot this summer--a White GT supercharged with the 2-tone interior--and immediately noticed the new chrome details around the vents and (I think?) in one or two other places. If there was anything really missing, it was a little brightwork, and the new shiny bits for '06 really do make a difference. It looked great, especially compared to the Lacrosse's lined up right next to it, with their massive flat black center piece and terrible fake wood panel across the dash.

Besides having a back seat from hell (literally :o ), I still think (and I'm NOT a huge GM supporter, by any means, especially when it comes to Pontiac), that the '05+ GP interior is quite nice. Not so much in all black form, but the 2-tone beige/charcoal really compliments it well. Shocked the hell out of me too, I know, but after sitting in a Black GP GTP with the 2-tone interior at the Philly Auto Show and then a G6, I liked the GP MORE. Actually, I think a few of the materials in the G6 are a bit nicer, like the top dash texture, but there was just something about the GP's overall cockpit design, steering wheel, front seats, etc., that made it better in my mind. BUT, to support blackviper here, I too think the GP's interior materials are nicer than the latest Impala--just materials though, as both seem about equal in the solidity department. It could certainly stand to be taken up several notches, especially around the center stack (what GM car DOESN'T seem to have that issue anymore? :o ), but overall, it isn't bad at all. I even like it more than the 300M we used to have, because it felt more solid and even better layed out to me. NOTE: Like I said above, the interior COLOR you pick seems to have a HUGE affect on even what "level of quality" one perceives inside a car, of which, the 2-tone beige and black definately looks classier and higher grade in the GP (or any car for that matter) than the "coal bin" option.

A few bugs with the front end look or not, the Durango is a GREAT SUV, no doubt, as is. Definately one of the most solid and well-built feeling, plus has a roomy interior for 7 and a 3rd seat that folds flat--live axle underneath and all. Plus, well, there's also the Hemi :) It didn't beat the snot out of an Expedition, Tahoe, Armada, and Seqouia in both MT and C&D full-size ute's comparison about a year ago for nothing. :AH-HA_wink: Give the same vehicle a very classy, elegant look and even better interior trimmings, and there'll definately be a market. Even from these pics, I already think I like the wheels and the grille. I'd buy one, IF that was, I wanted a trucklet myself...which I don't at the moment.

Congrats! Perfect car for winter time :AH-HA_wink:

Haha, thanks :) If GM's still around by then... :rolleyes: ..., we'll see how it goes :AH-HA_wink:

I really like the 900's, but was still speaking about a few "specifics" that make you wonder. i.e., the "Buick blob" look they gave the GMC, making what was once the most distinctive and classy the LEAST distinctive and fat looking; the lack of any improvement to the pathetic 3rd row; the typical "GM powertrain delay" on the 6-spd., etc. Nice, but there's still "buts". That, by far, is what baffles me above all. Decades after decades after decades and they STILL have yet to do a single vehicle that had EVERYHING right and ready from day one. Oh, and I still think the Lucerne is too frumpy...extremely nice, but frumpy...if that makes sense. It could definately use a tablespoon more "bold" in the recipe. AND, if I might add, even though we've only seen camo'd versions, the Lambdas are now worrying me too. The Acadia seems to continue the new GMC "big blob" look, and the Saturn looks to have about as boring and plain a profile as possible on such a vehicle. My last hope is the Enclave, which I'm praying for GM's sake is at last a design without excuses, or bizarre/plain detailing. A lot of this is styling, which can be subjective, but still very interesting points to say the least.

Well at least it has properly fitting pieces for once....good lord, the huge bumper gap and crooked hood on our $41k Suburban is one thing, but on a $55k+ Caddy, it's just lunacy... :blink: To me, it looks like a vehicle that FINALLY might look and feel worth the high price tag it commands, instead of just going in with good looks alone.

If you're going to copy the front end of another car, here's a hint: DO NOT xerox the Lucerne's! Well, that is, unless you're intentionally going for blobby, boring, and fat at the same time....

I'm sorry, but at this point, this late in the game, it's time to cut the old crapola and start pointing fingers DIRECTLY where they need to be pointed. There comes a time and a day where, if you're not getting done what needs to be done or even providing a CLEAR and COMPLETE strategy of how you're going to start to get the corporation out of the black hole, it's time for some fresh blood to take over. It's that simple. Wagoneer is NO Deitsche or Ghosn, that's for damn sure.

That's OH SO true. Not to bring up the most used example again, but the current Chrysler 300 was and still is so over the top for the price, that they could get away with NEVER marketing it, and still sell everything they make. Year after year after year, GM STILL can't make a single vehicle for the masses that has more than 2 people waiting in line--the Solstice being one lonely example. Yet, they still seem intent on dumbing everything down. We have the Lucerne which is great from a general engineering and quality aspect, but has such boringly bland and dull front styling and the old 3.8L under the hood, it makes you go "What?!" Then there's the Impala which, it seems, the goal was to make it a LOT better, but still keep the rental/fleet overall ambiance. Moving on, it now also seems someone is intent on dumbing down even GMC of all brands, which has always stood out for having some of the best GM looks and character, by making everything new look like "the blob from Buick past". It just goes on and on. Yet, as always, year after year, we hear the same story and the same rumors "Just wait, you'll be amazed". Yeah, right...exactly the feeling I got when the turds also known as the Lacrosse, G6, CSV's, etc., plopped out of GM's ass and onto the streets.... BUT, beyond all of this, at the end of the day, they STILL need a completely gutted and rejuvenated basic business and customer service strategy to make any headyway, anywhere. Get the great cars out, and at the same time, get your asses together and make sure the people you want buying them are treated properly and WANT to keep coming back--not disgusting them.

That's an equally stupid commercial. First time I saw it, I though "What?! :o ...they're actually ADVERTISING that? A crapload of GM cars have had that for eons...." Shows that poor marketing occurs EVERYWHERE. Too damn bad GM can't find a firm that can ever do something 100% right, and find a way to really get the RIGHT message across. But, at the same time, Toyota can clearly make just as weird of decisions.

EXACTLY. Nothing ever seems to be trully successful at GM, and a large part of that is they NEVER find the right chord and stick with it. I remember an article from the past that, talking about the engineering specifically, said something to the extent of "They have some of the greatest minds, technologies, and tools in the business. Problem is, they never have the correct leadership or decision making to determine WHAT it is they REALLY want to do." That applies here too. They (whoever "they" is...and I'd REALLY like to know), make lots and lots and lots of hits, which end up being pennies thrown down an empty well--seem good at first, but if they had just sat down and trully came up with a proper plan, it probably would have succeeded much more. Think of the Lucerne commercial focused ONLY on the heated washer fluid; the still horrible electric steering in the Equinox, Malibu, G6, etc.; the constant changes in pricing and rebates, that are not only confusing, but led to most vehicles being MASSIVELY overpriced in the past several years, etc., etc. There's a lot of great minds, for certain, they just need set DIRECTION and planning. Something they've clearly never had at all, or at least in full.

WOW. If that were the way GM ran, step by step, I think they'd be in a much better situation today. As is, if that could be implemented, step by step, but as quickly as possible, it would also help to get them out of the black hole they're in now. Buickman needs to replace Wagoneer and do it NOW...seriously! What needs to be done to get these changes in place and you in a position where you can take charge over the morons set to dig the company an even deeper grave?

Exactly. Mention it, maybe, in a commercial, and make sure the dealers KNOW the car inside and out, and point that out to potential buyers.

Well, you can't do what you don't have the $$ for B)

I really don't think killing them would have much effect at all, as long as the Lambdas were out at the same time. Truth be told, quality has never been a high point of the 360's, nor has driving dynamics, and for probably 90% of the people who buy them, they'd never know the difference between the body on frame Envoy they once had and the new Acadia they now have, for instance--except one is MUCH more space efficient, more fuel efficient, and nicer to drive. And for those who need to tow, there's always still the Tahoe/Yukon, which would remain as the "trucky" ones. No one really tows a whole heck of a lot with a TB or Envoy anyway. Then again, that's just my view. I've known so many people, either directly or indirectly, who started out with a TB or Envoy an then moved up to a Tahoe or Yukon, which they felt was infinitely better, that I hardly think killing them off would be much of a bad thing, PROVIDED that there would be a suitable crossover replacement for each of the affected brands. As such, since only Buick, GMC, and Saturn are getting the Lambda ute's, it's most likely a necessity to keep the 360's around in some form for quite some time.

That's great. BUT, do they really need a specific commercial for it? I could see mentioning it in conjunction with other stuff, just not by itself.

Just for a random comparison, here's a photo I just saw that caught me off guard, as I hadn't realized how MUCH all the little changes GM made to the Malibu altered its look this year.... Still not a jaw dropper, but WOW, has it ever improved from its first two very ugly duckling days :AH-HA_wink:

Well, that's just you're view, but maybe you've been around WAY to many sub-tupperware GM's and old Chryslers.... :lol: So no, don't see it. I see very attractive lines and a VERY attractive (can't comment on feel yet, but I think we know what to expect) materials selection.

All true. If they want people to TRULLY get the idea that the Lucerne is finally something different, and something that can go toe to toe with some of the best (imports) out there, then they better start focusing on the engineering, interior, ride/handling, etc. Can't help but say it, but focusing on a feature like heated washer fluid (which is great, but...), reminds me of the days several years ago when GM tried to be the "button leader" and have more buttons and computer functions/controls than anyone else. Cool feature, but it belittles such a great car to actually make a point out of highlighting that on its own commercial.