Blake Noble

Fiat needs to sell the Bravo here if it really wants to see decent sales numbers. Let Dodge offer traditional coupes and sedans and have Fiat offer hatches. Win/win situation, espeically if more Chrysler dealerships are allowed to pick up Fiat.

Well, this is all far from over. CarMax was a bust, although they gave me a nice bargaining chip to bring to the table at other dealers. Like I said, it's far from over.

It's something I've looked into, most definitely. If I refinanced it, I couldn't throw more than a grand down out of my tax returns for a new down payment. At that point, I'd be refinancing something like $16,500 without TTL. The payment still somehow works out to the same $300 bucks a month on 60 months at about 3 to 4 percent interest. To make the payment cheaper, I would have to set things up on a 72 month term again -- something I'm trying to avoid at all costs in the future. Of course, those numbers are estimates but they're very, very close. I've been thinking seriously about a three-door Astra (I want one with a five-speed, but I can get along with the slushbox despite the fact it penalizes you on gas mileage). It would certainly be economical, cheap to insure, and affordable. CarMax is the first place I'm taking the Challenger to tomorrow, and, depending on how things go and what they offer me, I might see if I can't get them to transfer one of these two Astras (link and link) to the store nearest to me and maybe work something out from there. That's still a big "might", though.

"I like to park in the handicapped spaces while handicapped people make handicapped faces ..." I hate Denis Leary, but that's the first thing I thought of.

The ties aren't quite so dire. The Chinese goverment realizes it's in a precarious position since we became it's number one debtor and the value of our dollar keeps diving lower and lower. Since the Chinese know our money could be a potentially bad asset and more of it is sure to head their way, they look for things to spend it on as soon as it arrives on their doorstep. Automakers, oil fields, property ... anything that has a good chance (i.e hard assets, commodities) of being sold for profit should we wind up deferring on our debt.

Exactly.

Well, I didn't really ask, I just listed a few cars that I was considering and things sort of developed from there. Sure, cars like the G8 and G35 were listed out of shear optimism, but none of them are completely unrealistic. You can buy a decent example of almost each car I listed for $13,000 and under and they all can be had for around $200 a month or less if you know how to work the numbers right. The worst ones to insure would probably be either the GTO (which, if I remember correctly, was about $10 a month cheaper than the Challenger when I looked into buying one last year before my premiums went down) or Trans Am, two cars that I'm not honestly holding my breath for since they're also the least economical by far (a Cobalt SS/SC will run 87 octane gas without any penalty if you don't plan on doing any performance driving). Another LX car, some sort of Jeep, or an Astra or Cobalt are what I'm really looking at. Trucks aren't out of the picture, either, if I find the right one. There are even a few cars that Z listed that I had simply forgotten about. I can't buy a car that I won't be satisfied with, though. If I buy something I'm unhappy with, I'll just wind up posting another thread on here about how I want to get rid of it because of reason a and reason b. I nitpicked the Sonoma I had to death because, ultimately, I wasn't happy with it. It just means that there will be another thread on here full of my bitching, more white Accords posted, more bitching, and more treadded water. I think we all (myself included) would like to see an end put to that. Understand, too, that I'm not unhappy with the Challenger, it's just getting to the point where I can't sustain paying $300 a month (plus insurance) for it anymore, job or no job, college or no college, or whatever. As I've said before, however, I can realistically pay for a cheaper payment long enough until this whole mess is sorted out, and it just about is. I'll know on the third of next month if I've been accepted back into college or not and, regardless of the outcome, there's just a few simple things I have to take after that before I land another job. Sure, the unemployment rate is terrible and the economy is lackluster, but I'm determined enough not to let it stop me. I'll find a way to make everything work out as best as I can, one way or another. Sure, it would be great not to have another car payment for the next four years, but from where I'm sitting it's unavoidable. My savings are my rainy day money. Spending all of it without having any money to put back is simply not an option. It's not that I'm offended by anyone's suggestions, either. I'm just a little upset that this thread deviated into what it is now. I'm also upset that the general attitude here is that I'm completely wrong. Am I saying I'm right and no one else is? No. And, again, I'm not ignoring anyone's advice. In fact, I really do appreciate that you guys care enough to extend it to me.

There's a difference between offering advice and trying to force someone to take it. Just keep your white Accords on standby and, if someone would kindly close this thread for me, it would be appreciated. This thread has went off-topic far enough. Just let it die.

I need a time machine so that I can go back and kick my ass.

I clarified on that end of things above. Simply put, I'm not willing to shell out $2,000 to $3,500 bucks for some '90s model car with 150,000 miles and have to constantly spend money to keep it on the road. I can think of a number of ways commuter cars can bear the brunt of abuse worse than any sports car or "enthusiast" car -- mainly being thousands of miles overdue for an oil change or for some form of basic maintenance or for some previous warranty work. Commuter cars are generally treated like junkyard dogs; not all of them have loving owners. I'm a.) not willing to have to put up with the long search of finding one that was treated right and b.) not willing to buy someone else's headache. I don't care to work on a car, but when I'm constantly having to work on my daily driver when I should actually be driving it, well it's a different story. If I were buying a car like that as a beater, it would be a completely different story. If something broke down, I'd get in my daily driver and fix it when I had the money and time.

Yes, I realize that. I said my savings were going to run out quicker than I anticipated if I didn't start trimming down my bills (all three of them) somehow. I didn't say I was completely broke, at least not yet anyway. I can afford to pay a cheaper payment until I start working again. If you're thinking "Since you're also planning on finding another job going and back to work, then you should just hold out and keep the Challenger" the issue there is that I may wind up commuting 30 plus miles away just to work part-time again. Like I said in the first post of this thread, I was going in the hole doing that with the Challenger. That won't work. I have to earn enough money to pay for gas to go to school and to work on, as well as earn enough money to pay the few bills I have. To sum it up: regardless of whatever happens, the Challenger has got to go from a financial standpoint. I only thought about the here-and-now when I bought it and I'm not ashamed to admit my stupidity and enthusiasm now has me backed me into a corner. I've said on here before the situation is complicated, and it's exactly that. It's not easy to find a place to start explaining it with the absolute best of clarity. I wish I knew of a way to keep the car, but I don't. I've continuously come up empty-handed when it comes to making that work and the time has finally come to take some action before things come down to the wire. I have to keep some of my savings for situations exactly like this, you know. It's also not like I can't buy another Challenger when all of this dust finally settles in a few years, anyway. There's also a reason why I can't buy a really cheap car as a daily driver: from my experience, older cars with 150,000 miles and up simply can't hold up to the stress of constant commuting. I honestly think that's one reason the Camaro was falling apart on me as bad as it was. I'm not saying there aren't cars that fit that criteria that are exceptions, but I think it's true for the majority of them regardless of who built it or what sort of car it is. To me, the cost of keeping a car like that on the road is almost like having a car payment to pay every month, even worse of an investment, and even more of a headache. It's different having one around as a beater, since you know you never have to really rely on it. To be honest, I wouldn't have even started a thread about it if I didn't think it would help me to think just a little more clearly about things. I'm thinking I won't be so open about issues like this one in the future.

To get back on topic, though, that '08 Astra is about as close I can come to being very fuel efficient, cheap to insure, cheap to pay monthly, and cheap to maintain out of everything I listed. If that isn't enough, it's also white and at a Honda lot as well. It's still 180 miles away, though.

Who invited you to this three way? In the future, you should at least spit in your hand before you join in.

I'm thinking I might ask Olds to make the forum software word-filter "White Accord" to "peanut-butter sandwich" or something. I see your point though, guys. Honest, I do. But Columbus, OH is a pretty far drive away from where I'm at ...

It seems limited. I'm selling the Challenger because I can no longer afford to pay for it, simple as that. What little money I have saved that's been paying my bills since I quit work is going to run out in the near future if I don't at least reduce my car payment by a hundred bucks. A used Charger, Magnum, or 300 (with varying mileage) can be had for around $200 a month and under depending on what term you go with on the loan. In fact, that's pretty much true of everything I have listed.

... I dun'geddit. It's cost and not reliability that's ultimately forcing me to let go of the Challenger.

Thanks, imp. I might kick the tires on a few Supercharged/Turbocharged Cobalt Super Sports as well. That, the three-door Astra, and the Golf GTi are the very few compact cars I'm sort of fond of. I'd also love to have a manual transmission again. So, I guess I have my options limited to the following cars: Dodge Magnum/Charger (These are on top of my list.) Chrysler 300/C (See above.) Pontiac G8 (Slim chance in hell, but I'm looking into it.) Pontiac GTO (I have regrets about not buying the one I found before I bought the Challenger.) Pontiac Firebird Trans Am (A low-mileage, later model fourth-gen only. I also list this one, well, just because I still have a spot in my heart for one.) Cadillac CTS (Not one of my first picks, but whatever. It's still rear-wheel drive and, if you're lucky, you can find one with a stick.) Infiniti G35 Coupe (Hell, why not?) Saturn Astra 3-Door (5-speed only.) Chevy Colt SS Supercharged/Turbocharged (Coupe only.) VW Golf (Rabbit) GTi (5-Speed only.) Jeep Liberty (A Renegade would be preferred here.) Jeep Wrangler (This one is obligatory.) Jeep Patriot (4WD models only.) Nissan Xterra (2005 and up models only.) NIssan Frontier (See above.) Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon (No four-banger regular cabs. After the two S-Series trucks I had, I swore I wouldn't go down that road ever again and I intend not to. Also, Z71 and Sport models are preferred.) Dodge Dakota (Again, why not?) Yikes. Three of those cars are front-wheel drive. Oh well. They could be worse.

The same is true for the Silverado nameplate. It actually wasn't the official name of the full-sized Chevy trucks until the either the 2003 MCE or the GMT-900 trucks came out (I can't remember which, but I know 1999 - 2002 models were still officially C/K1500s).

lolwut? I've never heard of this newfangled Nissan Rondo before.

I could finally be saying goodbye to the Challenger this Saturday. Payoff is about $17,500 and it books for almost $19,000, so I couldn't be any happier about that. I'm still out in the cold as to what I'm going to replace it with. Maybe a Liberty, Patriot, or an Xterra.

Yours for only $31k (what the ST was going to cost new with a few options): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200689954665&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_948 Note that no one bidded on it, so the seller still has it.

Ed Welburn has stated his affection for the GMT400 pickups in the past. Those trucks have proven themselves to be quite a timeless piece of design. I think there's a chance, though, we'll see the stacked headlamps go away on these next trucks. Well, the entire greenhouse is more elongated and squat compared to the current trucks. While GM may have added on an inch or two for the cabs of their next trucks, I don't think GM will go so far as to offer something insane like a MegaCab option. I'll have to agree here.

Oh boy, here we go ... Is it likely the Camaro will offer a turbo-four when it moves to the Alpha platform? Yes, of course, but I'm also not betting on the SS model being V6-only and over $30k. There could be a possibility of the four-banger engine being offered as an alternative option to a base V6. I wouldn't count on the CTS-V being the only V8 rear-drive sedan you can buy at GM for very long, either. You wouldn't buy a Chrysler product why? My Challenger has been completely hiccup free for almost 20,000 miles and still feels solidly built. Interior quality and powertrain technology is consistently improving leaps and bounds with every new car they introduce. There's no reason to be afraid of Chrysler anymore -- the days of shoddy transmissions, prematurely fading paint jobs, and sludge-filled engines are long gone. Again, I wouldn't bet on V8 engines going anywhere in the LX cars after the current generation models have run their course. Back when Chrysler released their Five Year Plan, a 4.8L V8 was in the cards to be used in the LX cars as well as the Grand Cherokee and Ram. Chrysler has been unwavering in their commitment to the V8 engine and finding ways for it to be more efficient. I know your last remark in that statement was made out of sarcasm, but the truth is a turbo Pentastar V6 probably wouldn't boast any drastic efficiency gains in a large car application versus the upcoming new 4.8L V8 Chrysler is planning to produce. See my thoughts regarding the Camaro. As for rear-drive cars coming from Ford outside of the Mustang, well, it still could happen. You know Ford would like to enjoy some of the same economies of scale for the future Mustang that GM has with the Camaro and Commodore and will continue to have when the Camaro moves to Alpha (especially considering the current Mustang is already so cheap to produce). Dying? No. It's just in a more limited role outside of full-size trucks. I see ... the Genesis sedan and the Genesis sedan as far as an affordable V8 sedan from Hyundai in the United States goes. The Equus is priced around $50k, out of the reach of blue collar Average Joes, so it doesn't exactly fit into the picture here. (That's also not to mention it's forgettable and just doesn't sell a whole lot.) Once again, you're buying into the doomsday hype about CAFE. Have a Snickers bar and some Midol, your crying is starting to annoy me. Just to throw this out there: the EPA employs 17,000 people and only 18 of their staff works at their automotive department in Michigan. Automakers submit mpg ratings to them and the EPA essentially takes those ratings at face value when they are submitted (read it on their own website if you don't believe me). The EPA only tests about 200 to 250 cars a year by their own hands -- some of those tests are random retests, others are tests that pertain to new technologies and cars claiming to have best in class fuel economy. Those 200 some odd cars equal up to only 10 percent of the new cars automakers introduce in a given year because, let's face it, a staff of 18 people can't test all of those cars, hence why they just take the automakers' word for it. Are you starting to see the loophole here? CAFE is enforced by the NHTSA based on what the EPA says and a majority of what the EPA says comes from the automakers. Sure, automakers have to use the mathematical formulas given to them by the EPA, but automakers also can think of ways to play with those numbers for a little extra efficiency.

No, this will only be true of corporate bread 'n butter models under those price points, like the Fusion and Malibu. While I agree a turbo-four will never have the sound and feel of a V8 engine, I don't think reasonably-priced V8 cars are going to go the way of the dodo bird. Yeah, they'll offer one V8 in the Genesis as an option. Sorry to kill your chubby, dude, but Hyundai isn't going to just up and build rear-wheel drive, V8 Sonatas any time soon. You're also forgetting Chrysler builds the 300, Charger, and a Challenger all with reasonably priced V8 powertrains (that probably aren't going to go anywhere when the next-generation debuts).

You're just buying into all of fear-mongering about the new CAFE regs. I wouldn't put too much stock in 2015 being a repeat of the Carpocalypse of the 1970s if I were you.