buyacargetacheck

Meh...looks plasticky, too sporty, too busy, not enough like a Buick. However, the center stack is very Lexus-esque--guess that's what they're aiming for.

The Vibe doesn't need to be reconfigured because it already gets similar mileage to the smaller Aveo. The Vibe, however, is more car and therefore more expensive. Pontiac is probably getting the G3 for economic reasons (recession) as well as helping the GM fleet with CAFE.

A Zeta Buick will never see the light of day. New car buyers have been increasingly disinterested in the full-size sedan market for many years. By 2011 a gallon of regular gas will cost over $5. At that price they will be completely disinterested in a 4000 pound sedan unless they're very rich and can afford a Lexus LS or BMW 7-series. By then, the G8 will be in its last throes too.

Maybe Buickman is right about Rick Wagoner. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1212489913...hs&ru=yahoo

A Pontiac G6 4-cyl auto gets 22/30 while the smaller Cobalt 4-door auto gets 22/31. Pathetic but true. If your wife can afford a G6 there's no fuel economy downside to your PBG dealer not offering a 4-door G5.

Looks like a lot of dealers, particularly PBG, will not survive the next 3 years without those high-margin P/U and SUV sales. Also, I'll be the first one to say here that the Lambdas are the next vehicles to feel the sting of high gas prices and a tough economy. No one expects to see these darlings to drop but just wait... So, what'll be the big seller at PBG dealers? Let's see...Sierra, Yukon, Envoy all tank...G8 doesn't get a decent start because of fuel economy concerns...Buick sedan sales keep going down...Big winner with increased production? Fleeted-out G6s. Yikes!

No, I remember the Iron Duke, the last Pontiac-engineered engine, quite well. Do you? Now, that's what you call Pontiac Excitement!

Looks like they've already shuttered Moraine production; nothing was produced there in April. The announced production cuts by themselves in a 15M vehicle market (not including the medium-duty truck cuts) mean a loss of about 1 point of market share if increased Lordstown production doesn't sell. The writing has been on the wall about oil prices for at least 6 years now. GM is a miserably run company.

Agreed. The reality, though, is that GM just doesn't have the money, the vision or the weak incompetent competition to make that happen.

The Torrent is a decent vehicle. I'm not ragging on your sled or on you. And you are right -- there are retail buyers who want something that looks a little different than a Chevy. Problem is there aren't enough of them anymore judging by shrinking sales at Pontiac, Buick and Saturn. Worse, increased fleet sales are keeping those shrinking Pontiac sales numbers looking better than they really are. BTW, we can't "blame greedy Saturn" because there is no "Saturn." Blame Lutz and his team of strategists if you want somebody to blame because that's where the product marketing decisions are made. Your perception of "divisional conflict" is many years out of date.

That's right. Chevrolet and Cadillac do not exist as separate divisions in the old sense. They are merely brand names with glorified sales/marketing managers "running" them. However, they are core brands and are therefore synonymous with GMNA. Chevy by itself accounts for 3 out of every 5 GMNA sales.

Pontiac exists in name only. There's nothing particularly "Pontiac" about the Solstice other than the beak and badges. It was developed by GMNA engineering, not by "Pontiac" engineers (as the original GTOs were). Same with the G8 except swap out "GMNA" for "Holden." Both cars could have easily been nose-styled and badged as Chevrolets and no one would blink an eye. Who but the completely blind do not see this?

Businesswise it's a great move. Look, the brand's days are numbered, CAFE is a very real requirement, and GM can't simply get rid of Pontiac until the PBG channel is fully integrated. What to do? Leverage your large dealer body and keep your factories humming by grabbing a few extra sales. There might actually be some profit in there if they don't get too wild and flood the market with these things. That could still happen judging by the apparent G6 dumping into fleets lately.

The "character, attitude, and soul" of a Pontiac boils down to the nostrils grille and the red instrumentation. The mass of car buyers would not miss Pontiac if it went away just like they haven't missed Oldsmobile, Plymouth, GEO, AMC/Eagle.

Looks like someone at GM is listening to me. Lutz tried to do the right thing by differentiating Pontiac as the performance brand, but the task isn't realistic given the lack of capital, state franchise laws, and the arrival of a permanent energy crisis among other headwinds. Pontiac will continue to be what it has been since starting in the 1970s: a Chevy clone with modified styling. At least until it finally fades away... http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...1023/LATESTNEWS

Your assumption that Buick is or could ever be a "Tier 1" luxury brand is incorrect. Forget the cars for a minute. GM doesn't have the vision nor the money to totally revamp the Buick dealer experience to come even close to matching the Lexus customer experience, an always-moving target by the way. In fact, by forcing single brand Buick dealers to pair with worktruck GMC and pedestrian Pontiac, GM is actually shooting itself in the foot in this regard. RWD doesn't fix this fundamental problem. BTW, because of the above, GM should immediately stop comparing Buick to Lexus. Buick should be presented for what it is: a nicely styled, high quality, comfortable brand with no pretention.

This whole "Buick must have a rear-wheel drive flagship" is a total crock. Those of you spouting this garbage are either very young or have a bad/selective memory. Buick for years had as its flagship a car called the Riviera. Remember that car? Specifically the FWD version that came out in 1979 and was one of the best-selling Rivs of all time? Remember, this was before Lexus -- a time when Buick was considered THE near-luxury car preferred by doctors, business owners, and country clubbers. Even after Lexus came on the scene the FWD H-Body LeSabre became a legend in itself. It sold so well it was almost its own franchise. Aside from the me-too styling of its C-Body counterparts the 1985 FWD Electra was well-received and unique in many ways. The 1991 Park Avenue was truly a sales winner and a step up in styling for Buick as well. For Buick customers, FWD was embraced and judged superior long ago.

Wouldn't Buick be down to 2 vehicles in 2 years since the Lucerne and DTS go out of production in 2010? Unless we have a major worldwide recession gasoline prices will continue to climb. We're looking at prices approaching $5/gallon in that same 2 years. Can anyone envision non-luxury brands like Pontiac and Buick thriving with gas prices that high? A 2-vehicle lineup may be the least of Buick's troubles.

Well, that's what we've all read about Hamtramck but maybe it's another GM mistake??? Theoretically, since the Zafira is a Delta-based vehicle it should be built on the same line as the Cobalt. Pick one: Lordstown, Hamtramck or GM-DAT -- not all three. The Volt will be practically handbuilt -- if it ever goes into production. It should also be built at the chosen Delta plant. > Detroit-Hamtramck (Let's See- Volt, Zafira, etc...) Closure Not Going to Happen > Doraville (minivans) Already Closed > Lordstown (build the Deltas in Korea) Not Going to Happen.

This is a smart move. And it'll give the new LaCrosse, which will be better than the current vehicle and roomy-enough, some breathing space in Buick showrooms too. The "full-size" sedan market is a loser from a business standpoint too. Not just because of CAFE either. It's been shrinking for years, and going to continue to contract as buyers look to smaller cars. GM needs to plot all its vehicles on a graph. 2 axes: sales potential on one and profit margin on the other. Full-sized sedans end up in the worst quadrant: low profit because of high incentives and low sales potential because of shrinking market. GM ran its factories in the 1st quarter of 2008 at 76% of capacity. Factor in another 10% too high of reliance on fleet sales and you've got about 7 or 8 assembly plants they need to close to get close to 100% plant capacity (the holy grail of profitability). My vote starting with full-sized sedans would be: > Detroit-Hamtramck > Doraville (minivans) > Moraine (mid-sized BOF SUVs) > Wilmington (find a way to build the Solstice and Sky at Bowling Green) > Orion (G6 is quickly becoming a fleet queen - get rid of her and let the new LaX shine at PBG dealers) > Lordstown (build the Deltas in Korea) > your choice of 2 full-sized P/U and SUV plants (the demand is not coming back ever)

Fellas, I have been telling you this for a long time now and many of you just refuse to believe it. The changes that are ahead will be larger and more disrupting than you can imagine. Gasoline and crude oil are going higher, much higher. Goldman Sachs came out yesterday and predicted $200/barrel oil (up from $120 now and $50 just a couple of years ago). Others are saying $300 and higher. Couple that with essentially no real median income growth in the USA over the last decade, loss of manufacturing, shockingly increased rates of white collar jobs outsourcing and you have a recipe for no one in this country other than some very rich people able to buy any car. This will kill "performance" cars except on the high end where the brand will support it. The age of the V-8 is over. RWD or FWD doesn't matter. Any program for mainstream branded cars that hurts fuel economy will be abandoned. BTW, don't blame the government. CAFE is actually doing the dummy leadership at the car manufacturers a big favor because they'll now be forced to be ready with fuel efficient options that the market will demand. For those of you who were living in the 1970s you'll remember when Detroit had the same problem it has now. Instead of Rams piling up and Fits flying out the showroom doors it was Cordobas and GLCs respectively. Big changes are ahead, and GMNA will look very different soon enough.

Seemed like everyone had a Colonnade. Looks better now than it did then for some reason. We Xers will be the last generation to enjoy a full lifetime of cars and a petroconsumer lifestyle. Listening to Carly from 1971 now, "These are the good old days. These are the good old days..."

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Don't make me laugh. It's going to take more than a few little rust problems to destroy the reputation of the vehicle Top Gear couldn't destroy. The Tacoma and its predecessors have a solid 40 year record of toughness. Here in the country's largest car market, LA, you wouldn't believe the number of 1980s vintage Toyota trucks puttering around, the choice of what seems like a million gardeners. And the resale value? Check this out: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p...amp;cardist=100 $9000 for a small p/u with nearly 200,000 miles on it. And he'll get it too. GM isn't even on the radar of small p/u buyers here. BTW, Tundras are everywhere here in California too.

It probably is. GM, until recently, was famous for using parts across divisional lines for long periods of time. Too long. Like brittle-feeling wineglass stem turnstalks. Cheap-ass outside pull-up door handles that wiggled and felt like they might break. Window cranks. Seatbelts and the plastic moldings that kept the buckles rigid that resulted in an awkward fit. Interior door lock pulls. The maddening 2-key system with the same ignition switch used by Methuselah. All these things turned me (and many others) off from GM during the 1980s after seeing Toyota's superior engineering/design of the same items. I've always been a sucker for Olds/Buick pillow-top velour seats and the quiet, cush ride though:) I like this Cutlass.

Not according to the Automotive Lease Guide which rated the 2005 GTO as 3 out of 5 stars (mid pack). Most of the rest of the Pontiacs were 2 stars. Maybe the G8 will be better, but the brand has a sucky image which doesn't help. Sorry, sometimes the truth hurts.