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Too bad GM wasted such a fine car on two brands that aren't going anywhere but down. Had they made 30,000 Chevrolet Stingrays instead not only would they command a high price and profit but these cars would actually be collectible in future. The Solstice, as good a car as it is, will be like the Fiero in 20 years time - an interesting low-priced hobby with little collectible interest. Even worse for the Sky.

It seems they are, but it looks like interior and cargo volume are going to less than the Highlander, and the Edge and Equinox don't offer 3rd rows. Plus, none of the ones you listed offer 4 cylinders. Therefore, the natural competitor in terms of size and power (and probably price), at least, seems to be the RAV4.

Hard to argue with that.

Love it! Finally, a mid-sized station wagon available with a 4-cylinder and what looks like a lot of cargo room. The Accord and Camry wagons are back! Fuel economy stinks though. Like a lot of Chrysler products lately it probably weighs too much. Hurry back to the drawing board guys: this thing should match or better the RAV4 in fuel economy.

So many of these brands have lost their original meaning and usefulness. GM taking the Google approach for Chevrolet worldwide might be the ticket. As the Google name is everywhere and applied to multiple products (Google, Google Earth, Google Labs, Google Finance, iGoogle, etc) so should Chevrolet. Expanding the Chevrolet brand domestically and worldwide while improving quality and processes would have the effect of making the brand stronger organically. If Ford can have the number one selling pickup with the Ford name alone why couldn't Chevrolet by itself do just as well (esp since it's a better product)? GM needs to get ahead of the curve and make this happen. Weed out the brands that have no future. Does anyone really miss Marshall Fields, Grants, Rich's or Woolworth? All brands that got axed after a long period of decline.

Not entirely true. GM squandered Oldsmobile's heritage over a period of 25 years to the point where almost nobody remembered Oldsmobile's glory days of innovation. Most people buying new cars only remembered Oldsmobile's unreliable, bad fit and finish and poorly designed cars. Again, they were simply guzzied up Chevrolets for the most part. Opel in the US now would be clean-sheet effort.

On the one hand the investment in badges and grills to make a Silverado into a Sierra must be very little. Yet, the payoff is big. On the other hand, GMC's brand equity is limited - GM will never be able to leverage the GMC name worldwide and growth here has limited potential. If you made GMCs into Chevrolets and changed the GMC signs to Chevy ones and lost half your buyer base because of it, you'd still have 200,000 additional vehicles on the road wearing the bowtie. That's not insignificant. The extra exposure is a cheap way to advertise Chevrolet. People like a winner. The next few years will be the perfect time to do this as fuel prices and recession kill demand for trucks - especially leather-lined and Nav-equipped Denalis.

You and I may not like it, but in the world of consumer goods image is everything. Pontiacs are perfectly good cars (they're Chevys and Holdens after all:). But it's not the buying public's fault that Pontiac has a crappy image. The product may be good, but if the image stinks the rocket doesn't even leave the launch pad. This is the crux of GM's problem. Their marketing blows. And marketing is more than just about advertising. Get your new Pontiacs while you still can!

BTW, I agree that GM will not adopt this idea. You can always count on GM to do the wrong thing. They're, like, experts at it.

Disaster? What do you think they have now? Right now with Saturn GM is struggling to invent an identity for a brand whose raison d'etre died a long time ago and is the one that most everyone who's ever heard of Saturn remembers. Moving Saturn into Oldsmobile's place in Sloan's structure is not going to work. Buyers increasingly don't get American middle brands no matter how good the iron (see Mercury, Buick, Pontiac sales over the last 20 years). At least with Opel GM would have a genuine niche story to tell: that is, Adam Opel has been making genuine value-priced German-engineered road cars for 108 years. No, they won't make any new sales records in the North America, but they won't with Saturn either. But under Opel they'll have a better, more genuine heritage combined with Saturn's excellent customer service.

Wait, I thought Chevrolet was the "American Revolution?" If I "Rethink American" with Saturn is that because the same basic car over at the Chevy dealer blows chunks? As a customer how do I differentiate Chevy and Saturn? Why do I even bother with going to a Saturn dealer when I know that the same American mid-sizer is priced less at my Chevy dealer? Hell, my Chevy dealer even has the same 2 imports in their showroom as Saturn does to compare. Opel as Saturn skirts this altogether.

GM's last ditch effort (it's axville if this doesn't work) is to sell Opels as Saturns. Great idea. But marketing them as the "new American" car makes no sense at all. But it's understandable because GM is keeping the American name. Saturn really only means something here and in Canada. So GM really couldn't market these cars as European alternatives - nobody would understand the message for sure. The benefit going from Saturn to Opel is clarity of branding. A Saturn in its original meaning (a small inexpensive economical plastic car) doesn't exist anymore. GM is rebuilding an image for Saturn anyway. Why not go all the way and call it an Opel? BTW, there are a handful of us who do remember when Opel sold cars here (and I don't mean the Isuzu imposters either). ***The "don't change anything" mentality from some of the posters here is perplexing. Think about how GM got in trouble to begin with. GM won't be great again without a great deal more change.***

Saturn should be renamed Opel. Saturn and Opel mostly share the same vehicles with little change other than federalization and the badge. Because of this fact Saturn's current positioning as the "new American car" makes absolutely no sense down here on earth. And this positioning will fail because it makes no sense and nobody (aside from all us geeks here) gets what GM is trying to do. Thankfully the cars are good because that's why they're getting bought at all. Certainly not on the back of Saturn's non-image. At least with the Opel name, it's clear why the Aura goes head-to-head with the Passat or the Astra versus the Rabbit (it's Opel versus VW, just like back in the Fatherland). Plus the Opel logo is far cooler than Saturn's. It's easy. Take 2 or 3 years (or 4-5 for a whole lineup refresh) and call every new Saturn an Opel but keep the model name. In the advertising, you say that these vehicles can be found at "your Saturn-Opel dealer." Once the last Saturn is purged you have Opel but with Saturn's great customer service policies (probably better than in Europe) and a legit competitor in image to VW and Mazda. This is similar to how Datsun transitioned to Nissan. GM has nothing to lose and clarity to gain.

You aren't alone in your hope for technology to bail us out. Oil will never be fully replaced - the laws of thermodynamics won't allow it. Remember, at the dawn of the automotive age many different fuels and engine types (including steam and electric) were tried. Gasoline and internal combustion won because it was the best, the least costly and the most powerful. All the talk you hear about electric, hydrogen, bio-fuels and, especially, ethanol are just talk. We might be able to run some cars on these fuels but none at the low-level of cost, high-performance and convenience that we enjoy today. And certainly not enough to match the scale that gasoline provides today. Get used to the idea of walking and, on occasion, driving an Aveo-sized vehicle. Bank on it.

The part about Pontiac being gone within 5 years probably sooner after the G8 bombs a la Monaro GTO sounds just about right. By that time, the BPG channel consolidation will have been just about completed - enough so that one or more nameplates can be "safely" dropped. Zeta sounds cool enough (rear drive, big engines), but it'll be the wrong car at the wrong time. Fuel prices are never going back down for good (see Peak Oil). No amount of alt. fuels and wiz bang technology "solutions" will allow us here in the States to operate like we have for the last 100 years. Has anyone noticed how many hundreds of thousands of people have died in the last 10 years because of the industrial world's need for oil and gas? Likely, we'll be looking at future cars going down in weight, displacement and overall size. US roads are more likely (not less likely) to look like European and Asian ones in the future: full of A and B class cars.

Finally someone understands me!!!!

The arguments for keeping brands on this board mainly revolve around the emotional: "GM wishes they hadn't killed (my favorite brand)" or "the brands are an asset" (no thought as to the liability side of the ledger) or "if only GM would...then my favorite brand would shine." You can't argue with the lack of results. GM is already behind the eight ball with its pension and union issues. And they've gradually and consistently destroyed any brand image left in several of its brands going back longer than many of the posters on this board have been alive. That's a long time. Someone posted some Pontiac commercials from back in the 1980s. I remember those very well. What struck me about one of them is that GM was even back then giving away $1,000 on the newly designed GM-10. Any idea what that does to brand image? No wonder GM is regarded as the K-Mart of auto companies. Note: don't get me wrong, I happen to like the terrible resale values on most GM products personally because it allows me to buy some perfectly good iron at a huge used car discount (same at Chryco and Ford). Sorry guys. The more energy GM heaps into Buick and Pontiac and Saturn, the more Cadillac and Chevy will suffer. If Chevy suffers the whole company suffers (including Opel, Holden and the other GM worldwide subsidiaries).

You missed the point of my argument entirely. My main point was that Chevy selling 30,000 Kappas would buy GM a lot more in terms of image repair for Chevy than it has for enhancing Pontiac's image or Saturn's because the sales are divided. Plus, Chevy's image is not as good as it could be but it's rock solid compared to the other two. Meaning, it's going to take a lot more Skys and Solstices over a longer period of time to get people thinking positively (if at all) about Saturn and Pontiac.

There's no such thing as a "value" brand anymore. That's so 1961. There's only mainstream and luxury. Everything else is niche, lost and/or irrelevant. Toyota sells everything from the 12K Yaris all the way to the 30K+ Avalon. Chevy could and should do the same. Holdens and Opels are the Chevys of Europe and Australia. Yes, yes I know GM is trying to move them upstream and introduce Daewoo Chevys at the bottom. Fine, but Opels and Holdens are mainstream Chevys for their respective markets. The reason the Astra will be so expensive here is because Europe's labor costs are higher than they are here AND most importantly the value of the dollar compared to the Euro has been tanking. It has nothing to do with Opel being more upscale. Spend some time in Europe and you'll quickly understand. Cadillac should be getting Buick's new stuff and pricing it like Lexus does the RX and the ES. Leave Buick the front drive bench seated Lucerne and LaCrosse and keep selling them until demand wanes. Then leave Buick to China where there's still respect for the name. The key to all of this isn't just about the iron. It's all about the brand image. Ask yourself - does GM have enough talent, money, manpower and guts to make Buick and Pontiac great again? The answer is a clear no.

Actually Pontiac will go down in sales not up once the Grand Prix is axed and especially IF the G6 is axed and replaced by a small low-volume cramped rear-driver. A line-up of the Solstice, G8, RWD G6 and GTO would yield 100,000/yr if they're lucky. Toyota did it for many years successfully when it sold the Supra (essentially a 2 seater) and the MR2. Where is it written that a mass manufacturer cannot sell two 2-seaters priced $25,000 apart at very low volumes under the same roof??? Quality, performance and price with one car are not enough. GM would have to weed out the vehicles that don't match the desired image while adding ones that do. Further, they have to do this consistently over many years such that buyers don't have to be beaten over the head to understand what a brand means. Nobody but nobody has to explain what Jeep and Corvette and BMW are. See what I mean? That's a good one. I don't think GM regrets one bit axing Oldsmobile. On what basis other than your love for Olds do you make that statement? I totally understand what GM is doing and I can read between the lines. Buick and Pontiac and Saturn have one last chance and then its ax time. It's hard to see any of them lasting 10 years.

As with nearly all of GM's products, these will be nice low-mileage used car values.

They'll sell every one of them. But it won't be the next 300 - the styling is too tame. Going with the BMW (or the Lexus IS or Audi A4 or M-B C-Class) will give a buyer a better service experience and better resale value (something many people care about esp if they lease). Hey, I've tried pumping up this car to someone looking to retire his minivan since the kids are moving out - wants a muscle car. Told him about how great this thing was going to be. His response? Complete silence. You could hear his thoughts through the silence - Pontiac??? What are you crazy? I'm sure it's going to be a great car. Unfortunately it's still called a Pontiac. Doomed from the start.

I'd assume anything with "Buick" on it would have more of a boulevardier character to it. The Kappa is sportier. I like the idea of GM making Buick and Pontiac into forces to be reckoned with. But they haven't even done that with the core brands Chevy and Cadillac yet. First things first. As long as Buick and Pontiac expend brainpower and money GM will never get ahead of the curve. Anyone who's been watching GM long enough and who can put their emotions aside for their favorite discontinued cars can see it. Instead of business as usual, GM needs to grow some balls and get some swagger. Both Chevy and Cadillac need to be expanded and quickly. GM should restructure so that every new model year Cadillac and Chevrolet get two or more really new vehicles. Get everything on a four year lifecycle. Chevy and Cadillac come first. That's all they can handle.

This car is just as bland styling-wise as the GTO, but will probably sell a little better because of the 4-doors. Unfortunately, that's not saying much. This car might sell better in LA than in other markets, but it won't make even a dent in people's consciousness. Buyers who have 30K to spend here in LA will continue to buy the cars that people envy. Anything (new) with "Pontiac" on it will make their friends and neighbors ask "why?" Who endures 60 months of payments while being told you should have bought the 328i?

Bingo!