Angry Dad

This "news" release is too unbelievable to accept. If Rick came out and acknowledged this plan I will believe it. Until then this is a hoax. I think the rest of you are getting your chain yanked.

Isn't a worthy Camry fighter? I'm sorry but the Impala is quite capable. The problem isn't product, it's image. I'll say it, the press has got their lips so firmy attached to the Prius exhaust they will need to be surgically removed. But has the same hybrid happy (or sappy) bunch noticed the entire rest of the hybrid populace is in the tank? Toyota is not perfect, lord knows the sludge debacle proves that but their PR capabilty is awfully good. GM's problem is that PT Barnum was completely right, there are suckers born every minute, we are a nation of idiots and the dumber you are, the easier you are to lead. Now this is my politically incorrect closure. The biggest mistake GM has ever made was aligning itself with Oprah. Let's face it, this entire nation has become Oprahized. We are pussies. We let a brainless self centered witch become a social standard. And she has totally emasculated this entire nation. Nobody has any gonads anymore thanks to this person. Now how can this be bad for GM? GM now has no nads. But in a no nad world, Toyota and the other sheep that fall for the phony image think that a completely castrated car company (Toyota) is just fine.

Explain please, why is Gettlefinger who has the power of the UAW behind him picking a fight with Delphi? Why isn't this guy using the political clout he has to go to Washington, to go to the other unions and flat out align labor's power to defend his workers and the rest? Here's the truth though Gettlefinger doesn't get it, the executives running Delphi, GM and the rest really want to see their workers get a good paycheck. It only makes sense. If the workers get paid well, the management gets paid well. Don't bother with the stupid "execs are getting bonuses" explanation, it doesn't hold water. If I were UAW represented with Delphi I would be far more angry with Gettlefinger than Miller. Gettlefinger has proven himself to be completely inept. At least Miller is playing his cards, Gettlefinger doesn't even know what cards he's got.

You can't milk a dead cow. If Delphi workers can make as much at McDonalds as they can now, go, don't let the door hit them on the way out. What pissess me off the most about this story is the catering to stupidity being done by the UAW chief. Unlike the workers on the press or at the broom, there is competition for good executives. Stop trying to anger the boobs at the bottom by constantly refering to executive salary. Or is it as bad as it can be for these idiots running the UAW, that they have absolutely no rational for the wages and dues? Has anybody made any effort to justify the wages already paid to line workers or is it so out of line with the competition it is totally indefensable?

No matter how it gets spun, the Titan is a flop. No it is not selling well. Yes it has a lousy reputation. The SUVs built off it are hideous and are getting the same cold reception. Nissan will follow the same road as Volkswagen.

My impressions are: GM is the victim of it's own success, it what other business can being the biggest and best cripple you when you are average? GM is also the victim of a political structure that relishes in rewarding incompetence. GM has been targeted as a method to solve social problems. Not only by politicians, lawyers and unions too. That said, it is time for the structure of this nation to understand and embrace the FACT that for GM or and other business in a competitive arena, it needs to place the business above the individual. Be nice to the consumer but when it comes time to build the product, compromises weaken the results. In other words, the times for communities to expect GM to pass out free turkeys are over.

I don't care if some people don't like "retro". Makes no difference to me at all. But let me tell you that when I first saw the HHR after the PT cruiser, I hated it. But now after the colors and the setting have changed, if I were shopping, the HHR would be at the top of my list. It's not the "retro", it's the style and the blending of lines. I got say it, so many cars go out of their way to not offend, they just do nothing for me. But if GM has any balls left, they will build a 69 Camaro and then to prve they have any level of testoterone, it is time for a 57 Chevy Nomad clone. I don't care what any of you say, I do want a car with tailfins, chrome and jet fighter exhausts. George Jetson had one and the future is now.

I wonder if anybody else is reading into the HHR success what I've read into it? Basicly that GM can take risks and succeed. Not that the HHR was a huge risk other than it shows the niche small car is no doubt a growth segment. Somehow I just can't see "NSC" supplanting SUV in the everyday vocabulary but you've got to admit the niche exists and it carries none of the "evil" baggage. The best question here may be where to go next in this market. I personally believe the the HHR two door concept is by far the most appealling choice. It is drop dead gorgeous and for empty nesters it fits perfect. Question is, will some abboration like a Scion XB (by far the most hideous vehicle sold today) step up or will the niche flower with good looking stuff. BTW has anybody else noticed that Honda did the exact same thing Pontiac did with the Aztec and has finished the cladding on the Element body color? Why aren't the educated ( I almost choked on that ) press jumped on them?

Here's an entity that has a stock value of aprox 14 billion but also is sitting on 19 billion in cash and who knows how much property. What this says more than anything else is how huge the load for employee and retiree benefits really is.

Keep it simple, Mazda bought few Lotus Elans, crossed them with an econo car and sold them. By no means is a Miata as good as the Elan. never will be. It just runs.

For those inside GM reading these threads: Any doubts? Build it before somebody else does.

I'll tell you what, if, or better as soon as it goes into production, the two door HHR EXACTLY like the SEMA HHR goes into production, GM will EASILY sell over 200k a year. That is if they get rid of the stupid interior in only gray or tan. GIVE US SOME FLASH INSIDE!

Anybody and everybody at GM has two choices, do the best they can under the conditions as they know it or whine just before they get hit in the butt by a door on their way out. There are no garrantees anywhere anymore for the common man, except that dealing with Comcast is sure to frustrate you.

Never stop a fool from making a fool out of themself. Just watch and avoid.

I'm still trying to figure out how the bowties figure in this mix but if this is headed where I hope it is it really makes a lot of sense.

How could "Edmunds get it wrong?" The statement makes more sense phrased "How could Edmunds ever get anything right?"

It cannot be avoided, the Delphi worker is the first link in a long chain of workers that will no longer be paid exorbidant sums for simple tasks. It's not Delphi's managements fault. The union members that gleefully took outrageous benefits and pay packages to either resolve or avoid strikes never seemed to care about competition. They simply ignored the concept. Who knows, if the UAW used it's political muscle 20 or 30 years ago to protect and strengthen it's workers when they could, this stuff wouldn't be happening. But no, rather than negotiating contracts that would encourage investment, they simply looted the bank accounts. What will really be interesting will be the ripple effect here. Those turds that fed off the benefit programs and then bought a Toyota or Honda. What will they do when their business dries up. Of course they won't blame themselves, they bought "quality" rather than supported the people that paid their bills.How much "quality" are those fools gonna enjoy when they go broke too? There is so much blame for this but when it all boils down the real idiot is the one that you and I see in the mirror. We did it to ourselves.

I don't care what other say, the roof is slick. The rocker panels could go away, the wing is so-so.

But costs more to run. I agree with a lot of what's been posted here already except one thing, the Gen3 SHOULD be in cars where the Northstar is. Hell friggin yes I'd take a Lucerne with a DOD 5.3 over a Northstar any day of the week. And in case nobody else has noticed, the parts to do it are already in the system.

http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/ Dang, even the treehuggers are hatin' on Toyota Sorry if it's been covered on another thread.

Ad Attacks Toyota's Record Detroit Free Press By Sarah A. Webster Oct. 24, 2005 "Is Toyota a wolf in sheep's clothing?" That's what a stinging national ad campaign against Toyota Motor Corp., launched today by a San Francisco-based environmental group, suggests. The ad is to run in Mother Jones online today and be printed soon in full-page ads in the New York Times and other publications. Created by the Bluewater Network, a nonprofit organization that fights for clean air and water, the ads against Toyota are thought to be the first ever to attack a Japanese automaker on its environmental record in the United States. Bluewater says Toyota's hybrids aren't as efficient as their non-hybrid versions and questions why the automaker is fighting tougher standards on fuel economy and emissions. They also note that while Toyota's overall fuel economy is the best in the industry, it is worse than it was 20 years ago, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Toyota spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell said the automaker is disappointed by the campaign. "Toyota is definitely the environmental leader, and we're extremely surprised," she said. Bluewater is the same environmental group that launched a personal ad campaign against Ford Motor Co. last year, portraying Ford Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Bill Ford as Pinocchio and challenging the automaker's record on environmental issues. Those ads, according to Bluewater, were largely a consequence of Ford portraying himself as an environmentalist, making promises and not keeping them. Now, Bluewater is taking on Toyota. "We don't enjoy playing the truth squad," Danielle Fugere, director of climate change at Bluewater, said. "But when the auto industry misleads the public, whether intentionally or not, someone's got to set the record straight." The ads against Toyota are likely to be heralded by Detroit automakers, which have been crying foul for years now over Toyota's seemingly bulletproof image with consumers as the environmentally friendly automaker. Toyota makes one-third of the hybrid gasoline-electric vehicles sold in the United States and has consequently benefited from Earth-friendly buzz -- even getting A-list celebrities to arrive at the Academy Awards in hybrid Prius compact cars as an environmentally conscious fashion statement. But Bluewater's ads, which were obtained by the Free Press last week, show Toyota CEO Katsuaki Watanabe in the foreground and a man wearing a wolf head in the background. The ads list a series of concerns about Toyota. Foremost, the group questions why Toyota's newest hybrids don't get much better fuel economy than their non-hybrid versions. The hybrid version of the Highlander got only 20.6 miles per gallon in a week-long test drive this year on a range of driving conditions by Free Press auto critic Mark Phelan. The EPA rating shows the vehicle gets 33 m.p.g. city/28 m.p.g. highway in federal tests. The non-hybrid Highlander, meanwhile, was rated 19 m.p.g. city/25 m.p.g. highway by the EPA -- much closer to the actual results in the hybrid. Other journalists have found similar results, Bluewater notes in its ad, calling the Highlander and Lexus RX 400h "gas guzzlers with no better fuel economy than their non-hybrid versions." "If this is the precedent for Toyota's future hybrids, that will be bad news for global warming and our dependence on foreign oil," the ad says. Hubbell of Toyota defended the company's hybrid vehicles, saying they are more efficient than their gasoline counterparts. What's more, she said they are 80 percent cleaner in emissions. Bluewater also asks why Toyota is working with other automakers to resist federal efforts to raise national fuel mileage standards and suing to block California's proposed regulations to reduce smog and greenhouse gas pollution. Hubbell said Toyota is lobbying for regulations that are "rational and national," to avoid a patchwork system of standards "that would be a nightmare" to comply with for manufacturers. The ads also note that the average fuel mileage of Toyota vehicles is worse today than it was 20 years ago, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's 2005 Fuel Economy Trends report. In 2005, Toyota's fleet averaged 27.5 miles per gallon, the highest among manufacturers. But the company performed better in 1985, with its fleet averaging 30.0 miles per gallon, the EPA report shows. While Toyota has a stable of fuel-efficient cars, including the hybrid Prius, it also makes the Land Cruiser SUV (17 m.p.g. on the highway); Sequoia SUV (18 m.p.g.); 4Runner SUV (21 m.p.g.), and Tundra Double Cab (18 m.p.g.). Those vehicles have helped lower Toyota's overall fuel economy. "Toyota has a lot of explaining to do," Bluewater's ads say. "We thought Toyota cared about the environment. ... Is this the same company that brought us the hybrid Prius, claiming to be an environmental leader?" The ads provide Toyota's telephone number and encourage consumers to call and ask Toyota to "build more fuel-efficient cars and end Toyota's opposition to critical U.S. environmental policies."

If this was true, why do Toyota and Honda fight the UAW at every opportunity? To suggest the workers don't WANT a union is pure nonsense. That the workers don't dare organize is the real deal. You know the real reason why T & H built here? To avoid the unions they have at home.

Considering the transplants, Honda and Toyota, are widely and indisputably recognized as having the WORST safety records in their plants, and those plants are built on the backs of fraudulent tax breaks, in areas with desperate employment issues, bribe may not be the proper word. Threat, intimidation and retaliation are more fitting. Let's face it, Toyota and Honda are not the angels a few people want to characterize them as. It's only a matter of time until the fraud is revealed.

What about that ten percent? Ten percent absenteism, ten percent is a lot. From what I've seen of this "new attitude" the pattern for the next contract for GM union workers is going to be cut. No more job bank BS, no more single didget co-pays, and none of what was trumpeted by Waggoner is set in stone. The rank and file still have to agree to the sacrifice. I remain skeptical until I see this benevolent union really does put the corporation ahead of the check to check mentality.

Did they have a choice? BTW, the rank and file must still ratify any agreement.