Angry Dad

It's not "dumping on them", what you wrote is exactly what GM faces. What GM started with the ad campaign showcasing the workers is the image that I believe they should focus on. Okay it's common knowledge by now that GM is again going to unveil another sales strategy next week. Supposedly they will lower prices to eliminate incentives. I can see two things with are opposites coming from this. One good, that consumers will say "finally an honest car company with realistic pricing", the other being "why did they lie to us so long about prices?". What it all returns to is a couple of things, that a consumer feels good about what they do with their money. And that they were treated fairly. Image runs with "feel good" notion. Honestly across the board from who you purchase from the second. By no means does Toyota sell a perfect car for everybody. Nor does GM. But if GM can make you feel better about what you do they will sell you a car rather than Toyota. In my opinion, GM has to combine the strategy they started with the employee ads with it's posible sales price structure. Maybe GM isn't the best at all times but just as a good salesman can sell ice to an eskimo, an honest deal, fair treatment and a personal tie to those you buy from will always beat a good salesman.

No BS, theres no huge gaps in "quality" no matter what urban legend and stereotype that gets trotted out. GM's problems go back to one thing, it needs people to "pull for" the corporation. It is my belief that no other entity did more than GM did after 9/11 to fight the effects of the planes getting crashed. You tell me what Toyota, GE or Home Depot did to restore confidence in the American style of capitalism at that time? Flat out IMO GM threw themselves into the fire by doing the 0% financing. Have they gotten any credit? Heck no, the bozos on the left coast now fall all over themselves to drive a Prius which says more about their gullibility and shallowness than their "intellect". And that is what GM and Ford just can't grasp. Let's face it, every manufacturer builds and sells some crap. Doesn't matter who. I just returned a second screwed up Ipod. The dang things don't last even when not abused. But will the general public accept or do they even want honesty? Not if it's not fashionable or trendy. GM can't trumpet what they did after 9/11, it's too late for that. But I can't see how it was the wrong thing to do. But GM still gets roasted for a Vega, Cimmaron or Aztek while Toyota quietly relagates the Echo to the fate suffered by the Supra, the Paseo and the Previa. All turds that have been deservedly flushed. GM's and Ford's problems aren't just Toyota, it's itself. Not that the product is perfect but the people here just don't want or care to see them succeed. It's easier to make your neighbor a loser than to admire their success.

For some reason the new larger Rav 4 with V6 power, well that statement is baloney. That from the same company that went hybrid on the Lexus 400 and got no improvement in mileage. Guess the image doesn't match the facts but as PT Barnum said.....

One word "Edmunds" Don't mind me beating the bejezus out of them for a while, I do find it amusing how wrong so many sites are.

When has Edmunds pizzed you off? When are they right? There may be a correlation to the coincidence.

"Buick Enclave The all-new Buick Enclave is the first of several full-size crossovers to be based on GM's new Lambda platform. The eight-passenger will utilize 3.9-liter V6 and 5.3-liter V8 engines (with the V8 featuring Displacement on Demand) and a six-speed automatic transmission. Front-drive and all-wheel-drive versions will be offered. A dual-mode hybrid is expected in 2009." I don't know about that part. I can't see this working as an 8 seater. But I do like the speculation about the 5.3 getting the 6 speed transmission. I wouldn't count too much on the accuracy of the Edmunds article. Or Edmunds in general. We do know that GM has released a teaser that mentions the unveiling of a Enclave "concept" vehicle. I'm really thinking that Edmunds and their "experts" took the liberty of making some of this stuff up.

"Chrysler employees can lease a 2006 Liberty Sport 4X4 priced at $16,684 for $58.54 for 24 months, with $1,059 down. Employees who live in Michigan can pay a lump sum of $1,669 plus the sales tax. Eligible nonemployees can get a monthly payment as low as $246 with $2,000 down, or $280 with zero down." No DCX people in the family but with the wife having a 4 mile round trip commute, I wish I could weasel into this deal.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/03/24/scion-t2b-concept/ Not much "better".

Not that I participate but a chopping competition to make this abberation even uglier would be one heck of a challenge. BTW, even if this is not exactly what they plan on sending here exactly how by any stretch could they make this "thing" look any better? I can't see how it could be done.

It will never be said by any comic or any auto writer but the congratulations to Toyota, they have convincingly beaten the ugly standard set by the Aztek. We now have the platinum standard for hideous. Look for every writer to gush over this craptacular vehicle where ever it is unveiled.

Considering the timeline set by Kappa, I believe your estimate is way out of line. I think GM already has a plant for production slated for the platform. Camaro won't go alone. But the "brother car" will not be a Firebird.

Performance isn't leading? Park the three together. It's over for the Civic and Fusion. Yep the "performance" standing still is lopsided. Argue all you want but there is a great reason for the Solstice to win. In two years nobody will know OR CARE when the Fusion or Civic came out. This award is going to be as one sided as Reggie Bush and the Heisman, Ford and Honda can only take solace in which comes in second.

For the Civic to win, that's the only way. Stop with any phony baloney poltical correctness. To say how a car is styled doesn't matter is just an excuse for badly everything else has been pummeled by the Solstice. The gap is that large. Solstice just plain flat buries any other car from the last decade with it's styling. For that alone it wins. And on top of it all, it really is a very very VERY good car. Any writer or car lover that doesn't say whoa when they first saw the Solstice is dead. Solstice wins, anything else is a fraud. Truck, who cares.

Or if a passenger car is not to your taste: http://www.hurricaneminitruck.com/ get a truck, but not much of one

The same politicians that have given foreign corporations tax breaks (or better described as institutional bribery) to bulld factories here to create (steal is better description) jobs are telling GM and the rest to solve their own problems. Can't these politicians tell the truth for a change and admit that they are the problem?

Follow the link, the responses and postures are interesting to say the least. http://edworkforce.house.gov/democrats/autocrisis.html Personally I don't feel poltics belong as part of the forum but knowing what's going on does.

Hardy the fix but I wonder about any company that hires Martha Stewart to sell anything. What's next, OJ selling SUVs? Anybody within GM that signed Martha should be fired yesterday.

Here's what's gonna happen: Jobsbank gone. It's a concept that nobody wants to pay for. Higher levels of worker co-pay for benefits. It sucks but it has to happen. And in my opinion pay per hour will drop to the $15 to $17 dollar per hour level. It's not that this will be a proposal that the UAW will counter to, this is what they can get for the workers at a best case. Delphi simply will not give more and actually needs cuts below this. What this will lead to is a contract at the assembly plants that will pattern what Delphi gets. Yes you got it, when the tables are opened for the next contract, UAW assembly workers are going to lose all the frivoulous benefits. And it is in the best interest for the UAW to throw in the towel on the jobsbank as soon as posible. Just look at the reaction from consumers when they consider UAW workers when making a purchase. While some consider it a positive, there are a lot that will not support the UAW just because of concepts like the jobsbank. It's got to go. It simply hurts sales. No consumer wants to pay for a clown sitting home, not when they are already spending half their pay for a year.

In my opinion, the story is a fraud. The title of the thread is too. Why not a fair title: "Unfounded report about Wagoner's pension posted" This story had only one purpose, to inflame the public and for some strange reason it got sent to you on the same day the UAW started picketing Delphi. Just because you may have been misled does not give you the "privilege" to mislead others. Change the title to something realistic. That's fair, don't kid yourself, the same phony story is running on other sites with the same title and yes people are seeing through it. Be the leader and throw the source for this trash into the fire. If they have the balls to write this crap they will come out and defend it. I don't think you will see a single thing from your source. They're cowards. BTW on this site, you are the source. You can do better than this.

Every single story on the site has the same byline. Who is "With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff " Just like every "credible" news source.

This is an editorial opinion. It is not a report. He gives no sources. It's like anybody writing to a message board.

No confirmation. Who's the reporter? That alone makes this stink to high heaven.

Will those taken in by this baloney do the same when they find out they were sapped? I hope so. This "story" broke at aprox. noon Detroit time. Absolutely none of the real wire services picked up on it. It's almost 10 pm Detroit time. The story is nowhere to be found from a real source. There's no way any business reporter wouldn't want to hang his name on this one. See any? Nope. It's sad that this site got sucked in, so have a few others. But in today's world, anything anybody fabricates on the net if slick enough can pull in saps. Sad thing is the GM workers will pay for this sick joke.

What will people be posting when they find out this is all crap? You people are getting played. Think! Wagoner is years away from any retirement, he can't write his own plan. Are you people that gullible?

Please supply a credible source. Whatever doubts I have about GM and it's management are puny compared to what some people are posting on this board.