Angry Dad

Saturn Competitively Prices 2007 AURA June 9, 2006 Earlier today Saturn reportedly revealed pricing for its all-new AURA midsize sedan to retailers around the country. The AURA is set to officially go on sale later next month. SaturnFans.com has learned that the manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) for the 2007 AURA will start at $20,595 for the XE model equipped with GM's 3.5L V6 with variable valve timing (VVT). The uplevel XR model powered by a 3.6L DOHC V6 with VVT and GM's new 6-speed automatic transmission will start at $24,595. According to the company, "the AURA's MSRP, long list of standard equipment, refined interior and bold exterior design reinforce Saturn's commitment to offering solid value while executing products like never before." Comparison shoppers may note that pricing for the 2006 Honda Accord - one of the AURA primary competitors - starts at a little over $18,000. However, the base Accord only comes with a 4-cylinder coupled to a manual transmission; the 4-cylinder automatic Accord starts at over $19,000. Meanwhile, the AURA XE comes with a standard V6 and is equipped with more standard equipment that the Accord. Honda's better equipped automatic Accord V6 starts at over $25,000. Click here for the list of standard and optional equipment available on AURA XE and XR. A complete price list will be posted online at SaturnFans.com soon.

How? Added to? Velcro, glue or double backed tape? It really doesn't matter because the sheep will still fall all over it but nobody with a brain will understand why.

Fine let them. You seem to have forgotten and by choice that GM and Ford paid the taxes to get those breaks, Toyota and the rest get these "breaks" by extortion and political payback. It's no sign of business prowess to give Nissan or Toyota plant sites in the south. It's is pure politics. These so called government servants are transfering taxes paid by GM and Ford workers to the pirates that are trying to put them out of work. What kind of threat can Toyota or Nisssan really make that will harm the average Joe here? Like none.

You want to see me impressed? Let's see Toyota, Nissan and the rest build plants here without getting huge tax breaks that they never built to begin with. Let's face it there is something wrong when Nissan or Toyota cannot build a truck plant here on their own while GM is across the state without those breaks selling something really want. Nissan has gotten it's ass kicked in the truck market and with the current Avalon turning into a lemon and the Camry following it's time for these pirates to run to Washinington for another bailout.

The similarities to the Toyota sludge defect are amazing. But of course that was entirely the fault of the stupid American owner in every case.

Considering how ugly the beast is, somebody better cover it.

No way to soften this one, it is almost a million. Steering is so overrated anyways, Toyota is just trying to spare the customer the hassle. But yet another recall for the Prius?

And the loser is: Anybody that buys either one.

Naaa, just that stupid spare tire on the azz of the Rav4 makes the whole thing a POS.

Considering that DOD disarms part of an engine, longevity increases. on the otherhand to get the power from a smaller far more complex engine it is run faster and harder. All DOD or AFM is consists of an electronicaly controlled manifold that bleeds oil pressure from a set of lifters and arms a different set of variables for an already existing throtle body. You do know that Honda incorporates electronicly controlled engine mounts on their V6 DOD engines. They simply cannot get the harmonics right. V8s are by far the simplest and most effcient method of creating a variable displacement engine.

V8 is far from "dead" in fact the configuration has gained more stature recently. Doesn't matter who builds it, V6s are lousy at AFM, DOD, or whatever acronym you use. And it's all but imposible to do it as a 4. The recent gains in electronic tricks in the form of variable valve timing and lift again put V8s at an advantage. The curse of any V engine is the need of more than one cat converter. Along with that the need to place them so close to the valves. With a resurgance in RWD vehicles, again the V8 is a desirable configuration. Straight 6s simply take up too much space. V6s are smaller but again the tricks don't work. The real wonder is who will build a a mini V8. Myself, I would be thrilled to see a mid sized truck/van with a 250 hp V8. With reasonable weight reduction efforts and a six speed transmission, the current tech could deliver a high twenty / low thirty mpg vehicle that could be used on weekends to move toys and people.

Same could be said about certain posters on this board. I know it's not against any rule or that sort of nonsense but let's face it, it sure seems odd to have Toyota bootlickers writing so professionally on a GM fan site. And they sure as heck have the denial and skirt the issue shtick down perfect. But's thats my opinion. and I'm welcome to it. Sure make more sense as time goes on.

Oh hogwash, Toyota built none of the market it is plundering. They built some ungodly lousy cars and trucks in the 60s and 70s. The disgusting greed these days is American "consumer" placing saving fifty cents over sticking with the people who really built the nation. Would any of the "prospering" industries be giving and now taking away benefits if not for the unions? The problem is the utter baloney stories passed around about union workers. While not all are perfect as the supposed Toyota superworker is, the American worker is not as blind drunk or stoned as some want you to believe. Big business has been labeled and exploited by politicians. Either as a social program or a source for campaign contributions. Right now the politicians will give away the farm to get a Toyota plant built in their back yard. While the evil empire of the UAW gets no consideration. Ever do simple math and see where the tax funds given away come from? Dragging somebody else's economic status down doesn't automatically enrich you. It's as perposterous as the "Mexicans do jobs Americans won't" , that translates to "Some people are too fricking cheap to pay a fair wage".

What load of crap, it's no lie that Toyota built it's strength by hiding behind a protectionist government. Now that society is whining that it might be thrown back at them? I have no pity. What really seesm to be ignored is while the UAW is blamed for what some self absorbed individuals proclaim as excessive wages for unskilled labor, the UAW is also the catalyst for a great deal of civil rights programs. Those whining about how wages are too high sure don't care to give credit for equal wages without reference to race, creed or sex. Yep, you pay for that when you buy UAW. You see the problem is while Toyota and the rest may build some pasable cars, their social skills suck. They aren't the ones that paid the bills for social justice and they frankly if they weren't imposed on them here, they'd be the first to blow them away. It's no wonder the safety records in all their plants are so abismal. They fricking do not care and they will replace anybody at anytime, dead or alive. For some reason any car company that hires Ol' DW and has him put on the hillbilly act to the max just to sell cars sure isn't proud of their own heritage.

From the same site that brings you Buickman. so much for credibility.

Personally if GM quit and then decided to go win LeMans, I'm all for it. Winning LeMans once would mean far more than winning every single NASCAR race for a year. Besides, Cadillac has a score to settle.

From Auto Extremist: "by Ethanol Boy Thinking The Unthinkable. Detroit. It has come to our attention that serious discussions are taking place for the first time in the conference rooms of one domestic manufacturer in particular on a subject heretofore unthinkable in Detroit. The subject? Pulling out of NASCAR. Yes, it has been mentioned before, and I have predicted it for months now - ever since the announcement was made that Toyota would be buying its way into the France family circus - but we have confirmation that not only are the discussions taking place, they're so far down the road that a timetable for a pullout has been created, taking into account the end dates of existing contracts with individual racing teams currently aligned with this particular manufacturer. The fact that it has finally come to this is no real surprise. Several years ago, we pieced together evidence that each of the Detroit-based car companies were spending in the neighborhood of $140 million each, annually, on their NASCAR endeavors. That figure accounts for engineering and wind-tunnel work, direct payments to the teams, personal services contracts with the drivers, promotional programs, race sponsorships, advertising, etc., etc. In the Big Picture of things, when multinational companies are spending double that amount for the "privilege" of competing in Formula 1, that would seem like no big deal, but taking into account the factors that matter most to the Detroit car companies right now, that dollar figure is a very big deal. And what are those factors? Beyond the obvious pressures being generated by Detroit's dire financial straits, one thing in particular is driving these "pulling out of NASCAR" discussions to critical levels - and that is NASCAR's full-on push and investment in its much-hyped "Car of Tomorrow." The COT is NASCAR's new "spec" car, and it takes NASCAR's template philosophy to its logical conclusions. The COT could easily be called a "NASCAR Special" or whatever the marketing name that the hype-masters in Daytona Beach will want to call it, because any connection to what the manufacturers are producing has been well and truly broken. I contend, of course, that the connection was broken long ago, but the Detroit manufacturers have been clinging to a shred of a connection and amusing themselves with the annual massaging of their various models' grille openings, nose shapes and headlight decals. Until now, anyway. Now, the realization has finally sunk in for one manufacturer, apparently, and taking everything into account and putting everything on the table, there's no longer the blind allegiance to NASCAR at this company, which is a seismic shift if you know anything about this town's slavish devotion to all things NASCAR on and off for the last 50 years. NASCAR has been living large off the Detroit car companies' cash trough for so long now that they don't even care anymore, as all sense of reality left the NASCAR offices in Daytona Beach and New York long ago. The NASCAR attitude goes something like this: If a Detroit manufacturer drops out, it's "whatever" - because Toyota is stepping up to the plate. And if another manufacturer drops out, no worries, because eventually we'll just market our own NASCAR "Specials" and then we won't have to pay any manufacturer rights fees ever again. But for one particular Detroit manufacturer it's no longer "whatever" - and messing with the sanctity of the NASCAR budget is no longer unthinkable - it's very real, very calculated and very imminent. This Detroit manufacturer has decided that if it competes in motorsports in the future, it will only compete in three basic areas: 1. In production-based racing series that by rule and specification retain more than a passing resemblance to the cars they sell and the competitors they compete against in showrooms. 2. "Technical" efforts, in other words, engine programs for open-wheel and prototype racing series, but stopping short of Formula 1. And 3. Developing an effort to compete for the overall victory at Le Mans. Any other efforts, grass-roots racing, drag racing, etc., would be covered as the need and budget allow. This particular manufacturer has finally come to the stark realization that their NASCAR involvement has done more for NASCAR than anything else. NASCAR exists for its benefit and profitability first and foremost - everything else is secondary to that fundamental premise. The relentless hype of NASCAR and its sponsors by NASCAR itself and its enablers at the TV networks has resulted in dramatically diminished returns for the participating manufacturers - and pretending that NASCAR's popularity has done wonders for these car companies in the showrooms amounts to the Big Lie. The fact of the matter is that the increase in the popularity of NASCAR over the last ten years has seen a corresponding decrease in the participating domestic manufacturers sales fortunes. And there's not one NASCAR-sponsored survey that can possibly suggest otherwise, no matter how hard they try to "cook" the numbers. Immersed in a battle for the hearts and minds of American consumers, this manufacturer has finally taken the blinders off and decided that the blind devotion to all things NASCAR has run its course and now must come to a stop. In other words, the $140 million that was previously earmarked for NASCAR, will be put to very good use. Stay tuned, because we'll have more on this story in the coming weeks." Hope they all quit, NASCAR has outlived it's 15 minutes. Who knows, if they get rid of the manufacturers they might have to race again.

the whole trick to an automatic transmission is the k factor of the torque converter or lately the material and aplication method for convertor clutch. You can slip a transmission on the input end to get durabilty and shift feel but it's a disaster if you go the other way. The reason to go 6 gears is to gain efficiency, go lower with the first gear. It doesn't really matter where the top gear is since final drive is simply a matter of design and calibration. Nobody here has any idea if these failures are assembly or design. But over time Aisan and Jatco have built some really crappy transmissions. Honda got burned by some. Mitsubishi too. The still can't get shift feel anywhere close to Hydramatic. And they still have problems with shift logic.

Take this to the bank, Aura is no joke. Styling blows away the Camry. And take this to the bank too, driving, Aura is a whole lot closer to the 9-3 than G6. GM will sell every single one while the public will start to recognize the unbalanced looks of plain flat hideous Camry. Come on back in a couple months after you see people's reactions of the two parked besides each other. BTW, it has already happened, it's no contest, Aura hands down.

I was going to put away the personal stuff (and BTW, my tirade you quote was mostly directed at an individual who attacked me - unprovoked, I might add), but since you've decided to, in essence, defend Henry Ford as not being a Nazi sympathizer---well, suffice it to say you need to read up on your history...He has been quoted as an anti-semite repeatedly- & financed/published pro-Nazi newspapers in this country until we declared war on Germany. And, to add insult to injury, you qualify your ignorant statements by stating that Hitler was good at what he did...what exactly was that??? Putting innocent people to death, ravaging the entire European continent with a horrific war? Oh, right, the Germans were good at manufacturing...that's what Ford was interested in---the anti-semetism was just a natural offshoot of his love for Hitler? I have a question...where are the admins when this guy spouts this drivel....you want to be mad at me cause of my opinions FOG, at least let me give you a reason...you're a moron, plain and simple....when you make these idiotic statements, you completely diminish all credibility you might have and make yourself and those that agree with you look like fools.... For the last time, since apparently only you haven't gotten the message: I'm NOT an insider and I have NO joy stating my opinions, just alot more basis in reality when I state them. If you don't like my attitude, go elsewhere or ignore my posts....you know what Hitler did to people when he didn't like their opinions (well, based on your rant, you probably don't.) You wanna debate like a man, go ahead, otherwise, ignore my posts and move on with your life. I not only know more about the industry than you, it also appears I know a little more about life as well. Grow up. You claim that you drive hundreds of cars every year. Where do you valet? And why do you steal the spare change out of the cupholders? Honored by your almighty response.

Dear self appointed and anointed expert. I'm not here to trash you, but you are here to trash GM. It is such a pleasure to be upstaged by such "greatness". But your problem is, you think you know it all. Old saying and it puts you in your place, who's smarter? You or we? From your baloney, it's you. The intelligent answer is we. Sorry but the original point is media bias, it's there. It's real. Go back to your trekie party now. Oh by the way, exactly why is such an expert on a GM fan site trashing GM? You spend time with Buickman?

Since the competition is the new Camry, being behind is a good thing. Doesn't matter how it gets spun, that Camry is always gonna be ugly.

calling your bluff bud, I'm not saying where I work but I do have more access to the real deal. Yes Toyota shut down web sites during the height of the sludge debacle. I have no doubt about it. Edmunds cowed to their pressure. Other sites evaporated. Gee who or better what was the cause? Where has GM exceeded Toyota? Whe I drive down the interstate I think about how much of it GM paid for and how much Toyota contributed or will. Try none or as little as posible. Yes what a corporation does besides the crap with a sticker on it does make a difference, unless you are shallow and self centered, willing to sell out your neighbor to save fifty cents. It's not beneath Toyota to manipulate what is printed about them. The sludge defect proved it. It's the net, I'm smart enough to know what I do but having some dipstick automatically proclaim themselves smarter....well you shot yourself dead center in the ass. I don't care who I piss off. But when it's somebody that puts on the crown by self proclomation, even better.

In my local paper the same article also includes the Toyota Sienna as failing the side impact test, here's what CNN reported: Insurance Institute: Safest small cars and minivans Kia Sedona is safest minivan, Subaru Impreza does best in Insurance Institute crash tests of small cars. April 17, 2006; Posted: 9:29 a.m. EDT (1329 GMT) NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - The safest minivan isn't made by Honda, Toyota or Chrysler, according to recently completed tests by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The Korean-made Kia Sedona earned the Institute's "Gold Top Safety Pick" award, getting top marks for front crash, side crash and whiplash protection. The Institute recently completed its tests of 2006 model year minivans and small cars. The final results were announced Sunday. Among small cars the Subaru Impreza, the closely-related Saab 9-2X and the Honda Civic were the best-performing small cars. Those cars also earned "Gold Top Safety Pick" awards. The Toyota Prius gas/electric hybrid vehicle was also tested and, when equipped with optional side airbags, got top marks for front and side impact protection. Without side airbags, however, its side impact protection was "Poor," the Institute said. In its side impact test, the Insurance Institute hits the vehicle with a barrier that resembles the front of a sport utility vehicle or pick-up truck. That type of impact represents a much graver risk of head injury, and therefore a greater risk of death, than an impact from a car. Vehicles without head-protecting side airbags generally perform poorly in the Institute's side impact test. The poorest-performing small cars were the Suzuki Forenza and Reno, Saturn Ion and Kia Spectra. Those cars received the second-highest rating of "Acceptable" for front impact protection and ratings of "Poor" for side impact protection. Minivans The best-performing minivan was the Kia Sedona which also earned an overall "Gold Top Safety Pick" rating. The Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna and Nissan Quest minivans all earned "Good" ratings for front and side impact protection. The Odyssey earned a "Marginal" rating for whiplash protection in rear impacts while the Sienna and Quest were given "Poor" ratings. The worst-performing minivans in these safety tests were the Dodge Caravan. the closely related Chrysler Town & Country and the Mazda MPV. Those minivans received "Acceptable" ratings for front impact protection and "Poor" ratings for side impact when tested without head-protecting side airbags. When tested with head protecting side impact airbags, the Caravan and Town & Country received "Acceptable" ratings for side impact protection. The Mazda MPV was not tested with side airbags. When side airbags are optional on a vehicle, the Institute tests the vehicle without the airbags installed and will test it again with the airbags if the manufacturer requests the test and pays for the additional vehicle. Safest small cars These cars received top ratings from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety for front and side impact protection. Honda Civic (Gold Top Safety Pick) Subaru Impreza/Saab 9-2X (Gold Top Safety Pick, excludes WRX and Aero versions.) Toyota Prius ("Marginal" for whiplash protection) Safest minivans These cars received top ratings from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety for front and side impact protection. Kia Sedona (Gold Top Safety Pick) Honda Odyssey ("Marginal" for whiplash protection) Toyota Sienna ("Poor" for whiplash protection) Nissan Quest ("Poor" for whiplash protection)

There are no manufactured "trends"? Ever hear (hopefully not) of the Black Eyed Peas? I have no doubts that Toyota has used the net to it's own agenda. Beyond any doubt they have closed forums critical of their products. Has GM done that? I say they are the ultimate hypocrites. Toyota sells on fear. Fear perpetutated by their own PE departments. Fear of the "typical" American auto worker being paid "too much" or "drunk on the job" or the rest of the nonsense.