hyperv6

As for Mustang and Camaro buyers GM and Ford are working to change habits and thinking. GM is not offering a 325 V6 just to say they can. Ford is working to put the Ecoboost 4 and 6 into the next Mustang. Again watch for the V8 to remain but they will be packaged in much more expensive models. You will be able to get them but you will surly pay for them. The days of the Cheap V8 are on there way out. Pricing will regulate sales.

Interesting and exciting to see, but I will take a wait and see attitude as I have not seen turbo 4 bangers last like a good solid V8. Get a 100K miles on these engines and they have pretty much lost their ability to move an auto where a V8 still can get you moved. While once what you state may have been true it has rapidly become a myth with many of todays smaller engines. There are enough examples of the small engine with very high miles running with little or no issue. The make up of these turbo engines are amazing. The rods in my LNF are based on the lengendary Pink Rods that help build the heritage of the V8 small blocks racing. My engine also makes use of Sodium filled valves that normally are only seen in high performance aircraft engines today. It you would read up on the power matrix of the LNF you would be amazed at how much the part of this engine would take. GM recomeds on the LSJ [superchaged engine] that it will be fine till 900 HP. The stock crank in all Eco engines will hold till 600 HP. The block will take up to 1000 HP. John Lingenfelter before he passed told me he was getting up to 1500 HP with mostly stock parts and was just moving to a after market head when the stock one failed at 1500 HP. He was taking thing to the limit and beyond as at the time he was doing the work there were little to no performance parts for these engines. So in that case he had to use many stock parts and in this case GM learned how far many of them would go. He was running 7 seconds in the 1/4 mile in a Pro Stock Sonoma. In the pro drift series Ryes Millen had a 500 HP LNF Turbo Solstice. I won the series and did it on one engine with no tear downs and no failures all season. I had a teacher who raced in the IMSA Champion Spark Plug series years ago and the Ford 4 cylinder was no where as built as the stock engine in my SS is today. The 4 cylinder in the past were just the cheapest and most basic engines as they were not the main focus of the market and they were not in cars that were very expensive. Today this has changes as the Ecotec is now becoming what the Small Block Chevy once was. I think it was Automobile magazine stated that the new Verano Turbo was a Wold in Buick clothing. I think this statment is very telling on the the engine package. The neat thing is GM stresses this is not a performance car so you can expect more in the future. As for durable V8 I see as much issues with them as any of the other engines. The only two issues I see on the Eco is a odd head gasket issue or VVT cam sensor. I see similar issues on V8 engines too but most GM engines will go well into the 6 figures in miles with no issue and little loss of performance. Hell my buddy this week end lost a head gasket in a 43,000 mile N star. It just goes to show you just never know and it can happen to any engine.

This is why I keep telling you that you and I no longer represent the kind of buyer the general market is made up of. We are not the fringe. There will be always something there for us but the issue will be cost and much less choices than we have seen. The general public anymore are idiots in general. Look at the things they buy, the places they go, and the people they elect. Just check out reality TV and any episode of Cops. Right now the public are to the point if you tell them something long enough and loud enough they will believe anything. That's just the Midwest, though. Different market in So Cal, AZ, TX, Florida and other milder climates where there is more acceptance of RWD.... People here are not affraid of RWD. We who drive in a lot of snow often know what to do. It is the areas that see some snow or people who do not get into much slick driving. We live in the snow belt and we really have few AWD cars and about a normal percentage of RWD. Number one mistake as these new engines are nothing like the old SVO crap. It is because of the SVO that I hated Turbo 4 cylinders. Today after the improvments of the new engines I love them.

Not all FWD 4 cylinder sedan. There will be some RWD and larger V8 coupes but they will not be cheap. Price will help limit the market is what the companies are looking at at some point. The prices will rise over the next 10 plus years to the point it will be difficult to afford anything with a large engine unless you have the means. FWD 4cyl automatic sedans (and CUVs) is the majority of the market today, soulless generic appliances..only going to get worse, since most new car drivers don't care about driving, that's where we are....such it is. I bame the goverment for forcing the high regs and I blame the complacent public as they do not demand much from their cars that an enthusisat once did. In the past the automobile was seen as a extention of the owner and today it is just a way to get to the store. People are more about their I phone and the flat screen TV. A lot of this is due to the fact people got tired of the junk they were sold in the 70's and with the new cars many are unable to do the performance game anylonger. Even the old cars are not much of an option since even a rusted out Nova is no longer cheap. I had a Chevelle SS and GMC Sprint SP at one time. Today a 20 year old kid let alone an older adult could afford one let alone both.

Interesting.. Definitely a long way from the dreadful 88hp 2.3 I remember from my '86 Mustang LX. This is not the only one and I am sure GM also has something to answer. Now the 350 HP 4 cylinders will not be the norm engine but they will be the more go to for performance engine in the smaller cars. They also will not be cheap but they will be cheaper than the V8 engines int he future.

Other than the Camaro and Mustang what coupe sells in greater numbers. I can not think of one that even reaches 50% of the sedan sales of a similar model. The Camaro is also Polarizing too as not everyone loves it either but it still sells.

Not all FWD 4 cylinder sedan. There will be some RWD and larger V8 coupes but they will not be cheap. Price will help limit the market is what the companies are looking at at some point. The prices will rise over the next 10 plus years to the point it will be difficult to afford anything with a large engine unless you have the means.

Here is a little on the 2.3 Ford Ecoboost that we should see here soon. The Focus will have it and I expect the Mustang. 350 HP. http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford-focus-rs/ke438.html This is where the 4 cyliner performance market is heading.

One thing to note on the 3.0 and 3.6 NA engines are they really do not pull much till they get 4000 RPM or more. You really have to rev them to get much pull. Adding a Turbo system would move the torque lower and the need to rev is not longer needed. I see the same with my 2.0 as it will run all day at low RPM with plenty of pull. Now I have also spent time with many a 2.4 that also has to pull RPM to get anywhere. As for why 4 cylinders. It has much more to do with lighter, smaller and simple physics that smaller engines can be made more efficent. With a Turbo you can have your cake and eat it too for MPG and power. The Cruze Eco is a good example of balance between size, power and weight. Not trying to be narrow and bleak but the regulations are driving the market to narrow the products as you just can't take a 500 HP V8 in a two ton car and meet the coming issues. Also add to this that people are looking for different things from their cars anymore. The old saying that cars are becoming appliances is true. The things most buyers look for anymore are Reliability, Utility, MPG and Affordable. Styling and image has moved down the list and with cars like the Spark, IQ and Smart car the companies will not promote image or style so much as they have so little to look for. Sad but the fact is cars used to be art work on wheels and today it is just a tool to get where you are going. To be honest right now is the best of times and the worst of times. We now have more 500 HP cars on the market ever and we have 300 HP 4 cylinder cars getting well over 30 MPG. But time is running out on some of the fun things and the box automakers can work is is getting smaller and smaller. What is sad is how at places like Autoblog they present a story on the Google cars that will drive you where you want to go. If you make the comment on how this is danageous not only in how someone else can control where and when you go. I asked where are the people who like to drive? To lose the ablitiy to go when you choose or drive how you chose is what scares me and there are plenty of people working toward this today. The plain truth is if they can not get you on a bus there are many out there that would love to make your own car some kind of public transit. Or driven a car w/ a manual transmission. Different world today for drivers. I can't imagine ever owning a FWD 4cyl automatic car in my lifetime, unless I have a lobotomy. Who ever though a Ferrari with a gated shifter would be difficult to buy?

CTS coupe is a striking car, but it still doesn't overcome the fact that is only has 2 doors, which is why it doesn't sell much. RWD too, I think i maybe had one customer ever that was looking specifically for a RWD car when I sold. ALmost exclusively people looking to fill the basic need of transportation wanted a car they could get around in winter with much easier. One of the most frequent questions I got was, 'it's front wheel drive, right?" As I have said the market has shifted and what was once the must have is not longer true. RWD and Coupes are the odd model out with the majority of buyers. There is a small and slow growing segment for Coupes again but it mostly to the smaller sport coupe market. It may come back at some point so I think they should always offer coupes in some form but not just in every model. With cars growing smaller people are still looking at utility more than style. Many of the average type buyers today grew up in Honda and Toyota families. There is no sense of need for RWD and V8 engines as they have lived this long without them already. It is sad but many have never eve driven a V8 or owned a car with 2 doors.

The reason I push the 300 HP of the 4 over is we are already starting to see companies moving past the 300 HP mark or already showing they are intending to go there. The NA V6 will be the work horse of the next step with TT V6 for performance versions and larger cars. The V8 will become less used in cars as time goes on. I-2 MPG may not be much to some here but there are many sleepless in Detroit looking for this much. I ponder will GM push the 4.3 in the trucks and try to market it as well as Ford did the Ecoboost? Ford Marketing did a hell of a good job and made them a lot of money and got a lot of positive press with this combo. If the reviews of the 4.3 do not come back good and better than the Ford God help them. The only GM vehicles getting the V8 will be the Full Size Trucks and SUV's, the CTS V, LTS , Caprice police packeage, SS sedan, The top line Camaros, Corvette. I see no other Chevy getting a V8 nor do I see any Buicks getting it. There is a chance Cadillac may have some unknown model pending but if they do it will not be less than $70,000 if it has a V8. The ATS, CTS Impala and Lacross will remin mostly V6 with under half the Camaro's being V6. The V6 will still play well in the Large FWD SUV segment but I expect the next Nox and Terrain to go 4 cylinder with a turbo option only.

The one thing we should all focus on is Torque Curves with DI and Turbo's. HP is secondary but the the low starting point and flat torque curves are something that most NA engines just can not produce. This is the key to MPG and feel of power in the smaller more efficent engines.

The issue with the late coming V6 is simple. They have been available in Europe already but the American companies are lagging because they did not have the money to bring them to market till now. GM showed the first 3.6 DI TT back in 04 on the Holden and then a couple years later on the Camaro. GM did not move forward with these till they got the money. The 4 cylinder Turbo was out but stalled in 4 cars due to the lack of money. Once the money arrived more Turbo 4 cylinders arrived. The fact is the 4 cylinder Turbo was a priority and the V6 less so but will be good as an option. The V6 will help in the larger cars like the CTS and who knows a 3.0 TT for the Lacrosse? Once they build more even one in the Regal would be nice. The way I see it the power needs will predict the engine used. 150 HP- 200 HP 3 cylinder Turbo 200HP-350HP Turbo 4 cylinder 350 HP-450 HP V6 450 HP - 750 HP V8 The myth of the high milage V8 has some truth to it where it under the right conditions can get very good MPG but in general hard use it will still use plenty of gas. It will hold its own but if the V8 was the answer to all things it would be in everything alas it is not. The Turbo V6 can be tuned to take advantage of the low end torque and can more easily hit targets for the MPG but it too can be thristy if used hard. But there is also a marketing aspect to these engines the Chevy V8 does not have. While the V8 is a very good engine many buyers of other makes still look upon it as a boat anchor which we know is not true. But if you want to lure a buyer from Audi to a Buick you have to serve them what they like. This is no different than people thinking because a car is German it is better. We know better but you can't change minds till you attract them to your product. Anyways GM was to the DI Turbo market first but who in the unwashed masses knows since GM never really marketed the engine? Ford was second and has done a hell of a job marketing their engines but I believe GM has a better engine but they still need to better market them once they are out. Chrysler is still behind on everything since Fiat has been slow to respond in fixing things other than revamps of the old cars and old Fiats. As of now they are trying to say thier non DI engines are competitive but the truth is they are trying to buy time. Be sure they will also have DI once they get the investment to build them ready. The only worry I have with DI is the lack of fuel with cleaners for the carbon in the intakes. All valves leak in the guides a little They need to to lube the valve. In the past the incoming fuel would clean the intake unless the oil was too much. Today VW and Audi have had issues with carbon build up since the fuel is injected into the cylinder. GM has had some TSBs as has Ford. GM has left a little spot under compression the intake valve is open to catch some of the fuel and cleaners but it may not always be enough. If guides leak much there can be some real carbon issues in the future. Trucks will have a lower powered V8 yet to suit the light truck need.

Camino sorry if you took that as a snide remark it was not directed at you only but it was a blanket statment on many who really have not lived with a modern Turbo engine. I used to think the same way till I owned and lived with one and now I understand what is possible now. In the past you would have to put my cold dead body behind a 4 cylinder turbo and today I love it. Things have changed that much. Ok lets address some comments here. 300 HP in the Eco is not an issue. The only think that limits my Turbo is the 315 FT-LBS the 4 speed tranny can handle. There on many people today running this combo with pushing up to near 400 HP and no issues. If you take a look at what GM recomends power wise on the LNF Turbo they only recomend changes to the rods and pistons at 400 HP. Many of the parts are well suited for much much more power in stock form. Second it is no louder than stock and durability is covered under the GM 5 year 100,000 mile warranty. I know of many that have gone well into the 6 figures with no issues. As for Fuel the stock settings are Premium Recomended not Required. This is no different than my 3800 SC Seried III. The only difference you notive is the loss of about 20-30 HP and lower boost. Note MPG in my Turbo or SC engines were the same no matter what. As for viberation? Why would it viberate any more at 300 HP? This statment shows a lack of understanding of how far these engines have come. The think to note it while I know some V8 applications can get higher Highway MPG the do taper off fast around town and if driven anything but easy they do use much more fuel. Noted with my Eco Turbo that driven hard daily it will return 23-24 City MPG in winter and 25-26 MPG City. Yes this is includes launches where I see boost levels at or near 23 PSI. So this is not some hypermile trick. Also note the GM Turbo Upgrade I installed moved me from 250 HP to 290 HP and added 1-2 MPG City and Highway. This was not only confirmed with other owners but I also confirmed it with Bill Duncan the GM driveline engineer who developed the Upgrade kit. He and his staff are already at work with similar kits for the present Turbo engines on the market and this time they have better transmissions and more RWD vheicles for them. Note the Solstice with my kit would do 340 FT-LBS. The kit is only a change in two MAP sensors and a Computer flash. I paid $300 for the increase and install to bump up my performance. As for the added cost? On average it may cost me $1 to $2 max a week more since the kit make the engine Premium Required. Note I only used Premium anyways. At least this way I could chose what fuel and how much pefromance. As of now I agree with a FWD the 300 HP give or take a little is about right just due to the lack of traction. The FWD unloads the front end with the weight transfer and it can be a challange to hook up the tires. I have even has tire spin at 50-55 MPH. in dry and 60 MPH in damp conditions. Note this was with Pilots that were not the best grip anyways. But it is fun just punch the gas at 35 and let the tires rip. Thank God for Launch control on this vehicle. The only flaw with my vehicle is the FWD and the lack of traction. The torque steer is pretty well under control on even grip surfaces. Note my Vehicle is not any lightweight either at 3200 pounds. 14 flat in the 1/4 is easy and if you can get traction 13's are possible. Some of the guys with stacked tuning are in the 12's and high 11's with slicks. One key to all of this is the DI. The one trick everyone needs to learn with DI is how to get the MPG. This trick should work with the V8 too. The key is off gas time. The engine if it has larger amounts of low end torque will help get the car up to speed faster and you off the gas pedal. If you are coasting the fuel is cut off all together. This was explained to me by BIll Duncan of GM. He said even if you put it in neutral you will not cut the fuel off but left in drive it will shut the fuel down and this is where we pick up a lot of miles. It is something GM learned while doing the Turbo engines. As for MPG today any company that can pick up 1-2 MPG with more than good power will sell their left nut for it. Lets face it they are building 3 cylinders because they want to. MPG is hard and expensive to come buy and each MPG gain cost more and more per ever MPG you step up. Things are tough now and will only get worse as the average goes higher. As the average get higher you will be able to buy the powerful V8 cars but you had better have a full wallet. There will not be many and they will not be cheap. I see the Turbo V6 now as only a start of what they can do. Not all of it will be massive power but it will also be used for low torque bands to get the feel and the cars moving and then let the lesser power keep them rolling. GM already showing us this with the new 1.6 Turbo. The only real down side to all of this is more parts that could go bad but today most of these parts are being built to levels that they need to be. GM learned a hard lesson with the non water cooled and cheap turbo T types they did in the past that never lived more than 35,000 miles. Note too the Turbo V6 will be like the V8 and will be limited to only a handful of vehicles. It will never be a wide use engine. The Turbo 4 will make up 70% of the market at some point and we also will see an increase of the 3 cylinders over time. The V8 is as big now as it will ever be again. So if you got em smoke em. This is not a GM move but a market wide move as they are all moving in this direction.

If it could deliver the fuel economy with the power - so far TTV6s haven't shown the capacity to do that. One or two miles per gallon isn't a significant enough advantage to make this a viable idea. The Ecoboost V6 does pretty well in the F-150 when you keep your foot out of the boost. Heck, I got 27mpg out of an AWD MKS Ecoboost. The naturally aspirated model does no better on fuel economy and had a lot less power on tap when needed. Some have a lot to learn on these engines and to understand they are only at the take off point of where they can go vs the V8 is nearing the point were it has it's limits with present technology.

The issue with the 130 is it is either a love hate kind of car. The repsonse to it has been very divided at best. The issue I have with the car is not the parts of it's styling as each one is nice but put them together and they just do not look like they all belong on the same car. A old 67 Nova had more flow to it. While I am not in favor of two Apha Coupes in the Chevy line up there is one thing to consider. Now the Camaro will be shared with the ATS and CTS line they can now afford to sell fewer Camaro's. There will be no need to try to push 100,000 units to keep the line viable. With this in mind we could keep the Camaro a V8 and TT V6 car and do a second Alpa car as a NA V6 and 4 cylinder car. Lets face it GM has always had issues pushing a V6 car even with 325 HP. Too bad the public is so brain washed that they can not drive RWD in the snow as a small RWD Malibu would be a cool thing. Too many will avoid it as they have been convinced RWD does not work in the snow. AWD would help sell this but would also push the price into Buicks area too. One thing to consider is if they were to do another Apha coupe for Chevy I would expect a sedan too. Too many lost sales just with a coupe. Love em all you like but they are still a limited sale vehicle. I saw a rare CTS coupe yesterday and told the wife it is a same they so not sell more of them than they do as it is a very striking car. I just hope they do something as stylish for the ATS or new CTS at some point.

The cars from 03-09 were really not bad cars but they were cars that should have been better. They were mostly saddled with older platforms, older engines, older trannys and poor quality interiors. Lutz cam in and did what he could to fix some of it but too much of the issues needed money he did not have. To be honest it is amazing he pulled off the cars he did while he was there. You figure he killed the first Buick Lacrosse till they fixed it and the Pontiac GP has to be restyled once he got there in the 11th hour. Infact the G6 vs the Malibu shows some of the changes he was able to do with the extra time. Imagine if he had the extra money. The Buick came late and was put on a good but getting older Seville platform with a aging pair of engines. It was not a bad car at all but details could have made it a great car.

EXACTLY. They need to knock the Malibu out of the park, preferably with an all new chassis and platform. GM has never demostrated that they can build a top in class car in the best selling segment in the US. My whole point is they did at one time show they were class leading in the classes that count years ago with the Caprice, Chevelle and Nova but have yet to repeat that in the years since. GM still needs to get their Sh*t together and make a rock solid line up with the Cruze, Malibu and Impala. Once they do that they can play with the odd bits they have always been good at. Right now the Spark, Sonic and Cruze are near or class leaders. All they need to do is update the Cruze as it already is getting. Fix the Malibu and then market the Impala properly. I think they have a chance to get the house in order but they do not need to be distracted by other low volume issues right now. GM should be able to do more than one thing right at a time but of late has yet to prove it.

I do not have the exact measuments but it should be inbetween the ATS an new CTS. It also will lose 475-600 pounds depending on the model and engine used. Just losing the Zeta will lose a lot of weight but either way I would like to think of the Camaro being just a little shorter and norrow. I just hope they can package the interior better than the ATS. For some reason they lose space on the inside vs the BMW and a smaller trunk too. The Camaro should be shorter narrower than the present CTS coupe but will be wider than the ATS. As for volume 2 seaters as explained by a GM marketing manager. He stated most have a 5-7 year life. Sales plunge and it is difficult to keep them alive with out a lot of investment that is difficult to secure on a low volume line. If Pontiac had not died the Solstice was not for much longer anyways. The only lower cost two seaters of any volume in this country to live long lives were the Vette and Miata. The Vette pretty much get a free pass because it is a Icon like a Harley. Even then sales are dangerously low last year and this year. Hard to make a buisness case even for an Icon if it has a hard time selling just over 10,000 units. In otherwords the C7 could not come soon enough. The Miata is a case of good marketing and global sales. They change special trims often and colors not unlike what GM has been doing with the Camaro too.

To sum up the Buick it was a car that was a victim of it's time at GM. They cheaped out on the interior and used an old platform near the end of it's life with a older too small engine. This car was more a hand me down from many other GM cars. Now that is not to say it was a bad car but just one that did not live up to it's potential. As back to the HHR. I mostly have only had time in my SS and the base LS models. About a month ago I got to drive a loaded LT2 with near 100,000 miles. I was amazed at this car. It did not feel like it had that many miles. It was quiet and drove well. Now it still had the cheap plastic on the door panels but over all it was not a bad car. It was the highest mile HHR I had been in. with the miles in the 90,000 pluse range. But it too was a victim of the era. Even my 04 GTP had the same issues only more so. I had to change the intermediate shaft on the steering 2 times before they made one that would not clunk after 30,000 miles well after the warranty was out. At least I got the shaft through work for $26 and changed it myself but I had seen many W body owner complain of the same issue and have to pay throught the teeth to fix what GM failed to do correct. From what I have seen and learned on the post Chapter 11 cars is they are crossing the t's and dotting the I's for once and we are not seeing as many small nagging issues. The details were what was killing GM and they seem to be cutting them out on the new cars. The low end cars like the Sonic and Cruze are the ones showing the greatest attention to detail as they had none to begin with.

The new Camaro will be this car as the Alpha based car will see the Turbo 4, V6 [poss TT] and V8. The Camaro will evolve as the market is changing as we have seen with other makes like the BRZ and where the Mustang already is heading. The Camaro as it is now will be the last of the large heavy so called pony cars. The ATS performance is only a hint at where the Camaro will start. I really think we all have seen the last of the R130. While some loved it just as many also hated it. I feel they were testing the waters and it just was not embraced enough to carry it over as the Camaro. Imagine if they did carry it over like this with a Mustang looking like an Aston or Jag. Not good.

So adding another low volume V6 sports car would be a good idea when they have other high volume cash flow generating models that needs fixed? Yep that is logical. There are bigger fish to fry at Chevy before we worry about how to do a seperate V6 sports car. If Chevy already had all their ducks in a row yes it would be a good idea but I think you can agree Chevy and GM has more important things on their to do list for now. Logical Idea in a perfect world yes, realistic for GM to do now no. Like it or not the Vette people are avoiding the V6 as long as they can but even they know they will have to look at alturnitives in the future. The fact is there is not a sports car company out there this side of the million dollar cars that is not looking at all the options.

I expect the TT V6 to play a major role in the new Alpha Camaro. They will build the engines image there and I expect in the ATS V. The last thing GM needs is another 2 seat car when they have not even got the Malibu right.

I just hope they don't look a lot like the old ones. Not to say the old ones were bad but if thses are new they should look more than just an update.

I think many will be suprised how well this car will look. I expect it will be very popular even at the higher price. God knows it looks much better than the truck like Taurus. Now if they could inject a little DNA here into the Malibu.