hyperv6

Word is leaking that this will be around $70K. Anyone hear anything that would confrm or discount this? I was reading a book on the Chrysler Turbines in the 60's. I found a lot of similar traits. The drivers who got the car for 90 days all loved the styling, they even liked the Turbine engine even with the slow accelerations. There were many things they loved about the car but when asked in the Chrysler debrief if they would buy one at $20K in the mid 60's they all said no. They loved the car but not that much even if it was to have lasted 3 times longer as claimed by Chrysler. I think unless GM is in a real bind here they need to keep th price down more on the ELR. I was hoping for a $55K - 60K range. This way it would under cut the Tesla by a lot and not be that much over the Volt to make it a viable option to some who already like the Volt. They need to keep the price down to keep up volume and get people to give the Voltec a try. I never expected this car to sell more than 10K units but now it will be lucky to make 5K. GM has stated it would be limited volume and a limited offer on this car. That is good as that means they have no put some crazy expectation on it like they did on the Volt. Also I feel that means a second gen may not be too far off.

Hmmm How about a mini Camaino? Since the Colorado is rather large hwo about we remove the wagon top and make a small light truck.

Chrysler might take issue with that. It is a brave new world today with Obama sworn in and now we can focus on green and Local job creation, so heck with Chrysler and lets Import From Detroit! I planted windmill in my yard and ran 20 red lights in his honor today. I do not think it is hopless here. GM still can do well with this car with the updates and good pricing. Price is king in this segment as proven by Hyundai with above average quality. If Gm can get the inprovments in and under cut Ford price they will do fine. The fact is no one will run away with this segment as They all will apply early changes to keep an edge here. If one only looks at the time line of this car from when it was shown to the press in 09 and how things were delayed it is easy to see how they ended up where they are. I still suspect the nose changes were already in the works when it was intro's When GM move up the intro with this car they did not have the time to finish them, If the Malibu had come out in 14 as a 15 the new nose would have already been set to match the others in the line. GM was between a rock and a hard spot. Bring the car out now in needs of some tweeks or linger on with the old out dated car till the later date they had already set. I think the early release with tweeks was not great but the lesser of two evils.

That is logical on the space as my 08 has little room to give with the 3.6.

Now I am not a wagon guy but that looks good! The task for this car is to appeal to the core market of anyone not over 35 years old so much. If you are over 35 you could choose this car but you also have many more options to choose from. Now the 35 and under male and females are who this car needs to target. They have less choices and less sporting options. For women practical and good looking are the keys as proven with the V6 sales of Mustangs. RWD does not scare them off. The ability to see out and carry 4 people are key. For the younger males it is styling, affordability, electronics and performance. They want something that has a cool factor to it that will make their friends show great envy. They want a car people will ask them questions at the gas station as they fill up. Retro has less play on this group as many may not know or care about much of it. But if there are styling keys from the past that could be used because they were good and not just because they are retro then by all means use them but in a modern way. The small 2 door wagon could compete with the Mini. I am not sure how the panel would do but it would be easy to do in low volume. HHR panel had limited love outside fleet sales. It had a cool factor but many people were not thrilled with being stuck with a 2 seater van. Even the Half panel did worse but was a good idea to try. A convertible would play well with the female segment if it is afforable. Not sure if that would be easy or cheap here. These are just some idea's off the top of my head. I really need to sit down and try to put this all into the terms of a twenty something. I deal with a lot of them at work as customers and have many that I work with. I will toss out some things to them and see what they say. GM really needs this under 35 age group and they are the ones who will help secure the future. Guys like me are in house and have been for years and really will not be moving on from the brand. GM really needs to capture this in all their models and brands. I just where Tadge Juecter said even with the Vette they need to sharpen the appeal to the younger buyers. Not only to consider buying one if they could afford it but to get them to aspire to own one someday. The Vette just has not had the pull with the younger demo as in the past. Many of the things in the new car are there to appeal to these kids. The Ferrari traits, the many functional scoops and high tech toys on the dash are all targeted at them but not to the point it over complicates the car or kills the price till it is way too out of reach compared to other sports cars. Vette sales have been down for 5 years and they aim to increase them with buyers who never would consider the car in the past. I think GM needs to do the same on this car and drive for the non traditional Chevy buyer. This is one that could steal sales from Ford and I hope Scion, Hyundai and even Toyota. But that may mean they needs to do some things very un GM like in some areas. If I had to choose a name right now it would be Monza. Not so much because of the past car but it is a name that has not been used for a long time and it is just a good sporting name.

Good you got the notchie in red too. This is where I see this car fitting in. I would see it matching Cobalt in price. Or at least like to see it in this price range. You know that the more performance they add the higher the price will creep. The Cobalt SS was gettng to be around $27k a few years ago. A panel and 2 door wagon would make for a good HHR replacment option for some. I see many HHR owners not sure where to move next. Most are looking Regal or Nox but not liking it.

Camino I think you nailed it. Not the Nova but the Vega. The first Gen Vega embodied much of what this car is to be. RWD, 4 seat, sporty, affordable, good on gas and a 4 cylinder. GM would never compare the two but it is like the same idea just in a better built car with a much better engine. The Vega idea was great it was just poorly done. To be honest the Vega even with the rust issues and oil use would still run and start day in and day out. Back in high school everyone had one for a winter beater. We just filled them up with used oil and kept on driving them. Two guys were lucky enough they had two Cosworths. If GM had just put better metal in the car and liners in the cylinders it could have really made a difference. I was going to post a photo of a notch back but the site will not longer take Imageshack.?

It is not so much the tech but the volume. The more you make and sell of anything generally the lower the price to produce it. I would not quote prices as the price on every thing will continue to go up on cars. But I see in the next 5-8 years the Volt may be just a little over a plug in electric. You figure the added cost of the engine would increase the price a little over a plug in but also the plug in has a larger battery. I see the unlimited range of the gas engine option as a added value to the Volt. Untill the day comes where charging stations are easy to find and charges are much faster with out battery damage the ICE is the way to go to draw new buyers in the real world.

I was just a kid but liked the styling on the couple my Dad had. Not so much the first gen though. I remember crawling up in the rear window and laying in the storage bins while going down the road. Car seats we did not need no stinkin car seats LOL! If I recall the early ones did not even have seat belts. LOL! I did have to say they did get a great shape out of the 2nd gen. It was just right. Too bad the Pony cars killed it. Everyone like to blame Nadar but the Mustang and Camaro did more to kill the car off than anything. I read several accounts by GM insiders. I think one was by Delorean. I alwaya wondered what it would have been like if they had done the 2nd gen Corvair with the rear transaxle from Pontiac and the 327 up front. This would have help eliminate the cost of the expensive flat 6 but by then the Nadar PR or I should say BS was too far along.

Blu I would not give 50 cents for a Spark but with the changing market Chevy had better have a good micro car. If GM can make money or dominate a segment then hell lets do it. It all about profit and building cars segment leading cars anymore.

Now thats funny!

All for the trunk. I think one thing that would help it for me is if it had a little more trunk lid length. I have been looking at this from different angles and the roof length ratio to deck lid need work. If they would just add a little more length to the deck lid it would help. I see the same issue on the BMW 1, not that I am a BMW fan. The worst styling of a small sedan I ever saw was the hatch 318. A buddy had one as a daily drive and we called it the half ass car. This is a good example of why GM should not look at this car ever being a hatch. One GM car from the past I would love to see a few things from it with a modern take was the 65 Corvair Corsa. The green house on that car was classic and would be good for todays sight lines. It would be difficult to apply to a smaller car like this.

If you go with a non Apple it can be 10 bucks for some MP 3 players. Some scoffed when I compared the Volt to the flat screen TV's when they first appeared. I remember them in seeing them first in Manhatten for $8,000 and thinking they never would come down. Now have a number of them in several rooms and also use them on my computes at home and work. We will always have a expensive technology leading Electric car a role easily taken with the ELR into the future. But as time passes and supplier become more competitive and numbers increase prices will come down. If GM had never entered the market with the Volt as it was it would never have become cheaper unless another company took the lead.

Just getting in my 08 Bu vs the new one you would be suprised how much more roomy leg wise it feels. There is not much difference size wise but it feel like much more.

Wow I much really appear as a threat to you and your love for this car. You act as if I hold sway over GM? Get a life. I stopped reading you post as I think we have made out points well enough. Styling is subjective and there is not right or wrong. You like and that is fine with me and I do not like parts of it so learn to deal with it. By the way this is nearly a year old you have anything recent? Have a nice day

A have said before the cars like this will improve in many areas and with each gen. GM knew that from the start. The investment in the companies that supply the parts will pay off in the long run. As I have called this car before it is a stepping stone not the finish line. What I hope is they can get the price close to the Prius as this car is a better car than the Prius and will beat any plug in for approval in a buyers eye. Get the price cheaper and keep it interesting I could be happy with one to drive to work daily.

That is ok Mini Bob just stick a LT1 in it. LOL!

What I want to know is what is with the hood on the mules. They have two triagle shapes one on each side. Is this just some dummy hood or are they looking at some kind of air intake of some kind? It also could just be some odd styling thing but it may need to be watched as they progress here. I noted the lower grill was more opened up in the Camo bra and it may be for the 1.6 Turbo intercooler?

They will use seat backs like they did in my 08. This will give them an inch or so. It would be the easiest fast fix.

Here is what some of us here predicted and looks like it will come true. http://green.autoblog.com/2013/01/17/gms-reuss-next-gen-chevy-volt-will-be-thousands-of-dollars-c/

You need to go out and get a mini RC chopper to fly around the house now since you are Mini Bob. There you go you can change your forum name to Mini Bob. LOL! .

Telling someone to stop bashing is censorship. Telling anyone to not express their opinion is censorship. Sorry if I'm not on you're band wagon but my opinion is my own and if I do not like the car or something about it I will state so. The car as it was shown will be changed to a degree and I expect the Toyota sales may have an influence. Also the car as it was was not a production model if I recall it did nto even have a real interior. While we may no know what all will change we all know the nose will change for sure. This was where I am coming from. Lets clear a few things up. Any reference to the Chevelle is only out there because many others have tossed it around as a comparison. I do not see it in the car. I point out the N car as it was a small upright squared off car that looked awkward. I do not see a direct N body here but I do see a similar shape and size so please keep this in context. For the most part I dislike the car from the B pillar back. The upright rear window has no relation to the slanted b pillar etc. I know it is difficult to style a car the smaller it gets but GM has done it well with the ELR and the Buick GM Lab Concept that Camaino post from time to time. My point is GM can do better. The heritage comment of the ELR is in the grill and tail lights even you can see that. It is small and updated but enough to point out the car is a Cadillac. That is all I ment again do not blow this out of context. The FIat 500 has been falling below expectations. Not my feelings but what has been stated in the press on how Fiat is looking at it. The 500 is a drop in the bucket vs the Mini globally. Fiat is on the phone alright trying to reinvent the 500 with more variations to increase sales. As for how the 130 got as far as it has. I often wondered about the Aztec the same thing. Either way I went back to other forums and confirmed while there is a good sized group that likes it there are still many that feel as I do. There are few cars out there that everyone loves. This car would compete with the Mustange unless they change plans. Ford is doing it all with the Mustange and it will be everything from cheap econo 4 cylinder to full blown Shelby based on the comming car. As of now they plan for only one car but that culd change based on sales of the others. If the small RWD comes to GM I suspect we will not see a 4 cylinder Camaro and they will be ok with what V6 sales they already have. As for price the average price of a car today is over $30K. If this car does not come for a coupe years the average will only increase. But it is way too soon to predict price or even end styling. Glenn Beck? How in the hell do you go from cars and the 130 to Glenn Beck. I take it you either hate him or feel threatened but leave me out of this issue you have. That is between you and him. The bottom line is you like the car and I can accept that and have no issue with what ever comment you have on your own personel feelings. It is your opinion and I can deal with it. In turn I am not a fan of parts of this car and will continue to voice what I like or dislike. There is no need to be defensive as if anyone says anyting negitive we may kill the deal. I could only wish for such influance. LOL! I have made my point here enought for you to understand and I understand yours. Lets not blow this out of shape here anymore than it has been. You like it and I don't we do not agree and I am ok with that. So sing what ever praise you may have but don't expect others who do not agree to remain silent.

I've tried my best to hold my tongue about this, but I can't anymore. Hyper, would you please just stop with bashing the Code 130R? It's getting old. We get it already, you don't like the car. Or, to be more to the point, you don't like the styling. So what? You aren't in the majority here and, sorry, your opinion on this concept car isn't popular opinion. The 130R can't be that ugly if it has seriously garnered interest for GM to take it to production and to take it to auto shows beyond the 2012 season. You have a blatant agenda against this car that, from where I'm sitting, you are willing to propagate through false information. This is a little childish. Also, to address an earlier quote of yours that Z06 posted, the Code 130R was not nor ever intended to be an exercise for a F6 Camaro. The styling was not nor intended to be intended to be used on the F6 Camaro. Why would GM design the F6 Camaro to essentially look like a modern seven-eighths scale 1970 Chevelle? This is yet another reason why your hate march against what is a pretty nice concept car runs off of personal prejudice and pure bunk. It it correct for me to ask you to stop praising it? This is a place for Opinions and I have heard yours a number of times just as I have stated mine. I can deal with your opinion you are old enough to do like wise. First lets also get some fact straight here. I do not really want a Chevelle and I for one am not a real big fan of the retro look as a whole. A little is ok but to me it also turns out to be a crutch for the lack of good original ideas. I grew up in Chevelles from 67-73 as we had each year and also have owned a few myself. The last thing I want to see is some small creation try to pawn off the Chevelle heritage. I see this as more Grand Am N body vs Chevelle. Nor in any way do I want the 130 to be a Camaro. In fact I had fears this is what they had planned for the C6 at first. I so not even want the Chevelle name used. Fact 2 the nose wil change just because there is a new face at Chevy and the rest of the line up would be moved to it by the time this car would ever hit the market. The Malibu, Cruze and Nox all will lose the center bar soon. I really have no issue with the nose. Fact three I am all for the idea of a small RWD coupe and put the 2.0 Turbo in I would be all over it if I could like the styling. Fact three the only reall issue I have is the lenght of the roof vs the deck lid and the rear window. I was never a big fan of the N body cars of the 80's nor any of the short deck lid or and near vertical rear window of many of the 80's cars. There is just no flow to the styling and to me it looks cheap and unimaginative. Fix that to where it looks like it belongs to the rest of the car and I'm game. Fact Four you have no clue about my true feelings on this car based on your comments. I have no hidden agendas and if I did why in the hell would have I started this thread? I express what I feel plain and simple and if you agree fine if not fine. I may not agree with you but who am I to tell you to stop praising it? Sorry this is a two way street and if you want to keep praising it you have as much right as I can voice my dislike of parts of it. Finally I think the concept of the smaller than Alpha RWD would be a great idea as it would remove the burden of the Camaro from having to be the all things for all needs for GM like the Mustang has become for Ford. Think about this. The Camaro has had to move 100,000 at Oshawa to be profitable and they still have not moved the number of V6 cars they want to move or really need to move going into the future. With the Gen 6 going to the ATS and CTS plant they can remove the number of cars needed and built generally mostly V8 cars at a little higher price and keep the Camaro image in check vs forcing a Turbo 4 under the hood. With this car they can create a new car and class that will take on the Mustang and the Toyota and better address it. Also this car needs to appeal to a global market. Retro is not the way to go Globally unless you are a Mini. Europe has yet to understand the HHR and SSR. The bottom line is I have litte issue with most of the car but I really think they failed on the rear of the car. I know they can do better as this is the company that just showed us the ELR. The ELR shows a little heritage but has taken a design that is so appealing many forget or wish it was not an electric car. I am not saying to copy the ELR before you take me our of context again but if they can make such an impression with that car they can do much better here. While I will not call the 130 a failure I will not claim it to be one of their best efforts and I will continue to state so as I am not alone as there are many other on the web that also feel this way from the comments I have read. What ever it ends up like so be it. If I like it I would consider buying it if it has the 2.0 Turbo but if It remains as it is I will continue to look for what I like. In short I encourage you to continue to offer your opinion as I have a pair and can deal with it. Like wise I will continue to voice my opinuion as that is what forums are for. GM is watching anymore and this is where we need to be heard. Who the hell here has a right to censor anyones opinon? I don'y hold that right and nor do you..... Well maybe Drew LOL! I may be in the minority here but over all the split is around 50/50 on many forums so I am far from alone in my feelings. I am good with you so please do not take this the wrong way. Just understand we all have opinions here and sometimes we agree and many times we do not and that is why we are all here. Exactly. I actually hope it comes to market as a reborn Nova, and logically, it makes sense. I just hope the price tag comes in well below $25,000. By the time this hits market we may be lucky to beat under $30K

The driverless car is on the way electric or not. All that love to drive or have the freedom to go when you want, where you want and how you want should pay attention. Times and places can be directed as to when or where you go by who ever ends up in charge. They can do it in the name of regulation of traffic flow very easy.

First off the nose is out dated already and has to be replaced. Second the car was not universally embraced. It was a very polarizing design and not one that was going to maximize sales. No everyone that does matter has not gotten used to it as I would be very interested in this segment and to this point the styling will prevent me from buying. To this day other than the performance I do not understand what people get excited about in the Skyline. To be it looks like a cheap coupe with a good engine. Do I think they can fix the car for much wider apeal yes. Fix the roof to declid and I may come around but roof looks too large for the car. I never like the Monza town car and this is the same issue and I am not alone by the surveys I have seen. Now don't think I expect a CTS coupe back but something more in the line with the Camaro balance wise.