hyperv6

No matter how you spin it larger single turbo's have greater inertia and this leads to lag in street cars. Yes I agree that the larger turbo has efficiencies at higher RPM and top end performance but that seldom comes into play in a street car. Also the lag in a race car is a non factor since in many cases they launch at high RPM and can build boost sitting still. But that is not something some one will do in a ATS at a street light. While duels are much better for street use and decreasing lag at low end they do suffer at the top end. This is where the Sequential comes into play. It worked well in everything from a 959, Supra and even a Ford Diesel. It as you point out and I agree address the low end and top end both. Also another version is the Staged Turbo system. It is a Sequential taken to the next level where similar turbo's will move pressure from one to another to build pressure a it goes. I have seen this one mostly in aviation and it is pretty much impractical for cars. There are factors to all these systems and can affect how they work and what they do as there are no absolutes but generally duel and sequential are the systems that have the best low end in most street cars and often are what we see. Now if you were racing a Grand National in drag racing one large would be your best bet for over top end performance where street driving is not a factor. Though John Lingenfelter was racing a TT V6 Cobalt for us when he suffered his crash and If I recall was dipping in the 6 second 1/4 mile even with the TT set up. He was beating many of the single turbo cars at the time. Duel Scrolled turbo systems are prized by OE automakers today. I will post this link as it better explains the truth of single scroll vs. duel. http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-0906-twin-scroll-turbo-system-design/viewall.html But with any turbo system there are qualifications to each that need to be addressed. On turbo or system is not a one fits all in the OE segment or racing. Most OE system will be limited in total possible power but they have to give a little for better drivability. In racing it is all power and street drivability be damned. This is not unlike cam shaft choices as there are compromises that must be made for the sake of the street vs. over all power output or use. While I agree with much of what you state there is still much you do not address as for a specific purpose of each set up tune. There are adjustments and compromises that are made to address the use. The fact is two small turbo's would better serve a OE CTS on the street and better meet the needs and drivability of the owners vs.. one large turbo. Now I would agree with you if the owner was running the quarter mile or on Bonneville.

I would like to add some other basic Turbo info here. Generally the use of two turbo or bi turbo is that larger engines like a V6 and V8 for the street need two smaller turbo's to cut down on lag. One large turbo will often produces more lag as it takes too long to spool it up to be effective. Two smaller turbo's tend to spool faster and reach peek boost faster and at lower end on a street car while moving the same amount of air as a larger single. In some rare cases they have also used progressive where there is one small and one large to provide less lag. Now in racing where the revs are up and the throttle is down lag is less of an issue with a large single turbo but on the street it is a rare sight to see a single anymore just do to the low end lag of the large unit. We deal with large racing turbo's at work and if used on the street they would be a major disappointment but coming off the line at near the red line they build boost before they launch. Also packaging in todays small engine compartments are difficult and two smaller units can often be fitted in on the sides or below an engine. Some kits we have even package a pair near the rear axle. Smaller engines like my 2.0 use a single but they it is a modern duel scroll that helps eliminate much of the lag with a two passage air system in the housing that keeps air flow up and progressive. Also with only 2.0 liters it does not have as much demand for boost as the engines demand for air are less so it is a much smaller turbo vs. the needs of a V8 or V6. Note do not have any kind of lag like a GN. BMW has the single but they are also working on a Electric Turbo charger. This is not one of the E bay rip off deals but it is a Electric turbo to supplement their single exhaust fed unit to eliminate the lag on the larger turbo at low end. They expect once it is read for market it would make for a much smoother performing system with no lag. They have not given all the details but the info is out on what they are trying to do. turbos are an are even few car guys really understand unless you spend some time reading up on it as things are changing fast in this area as companies spend more and more money on them,

getting sick of the bunker cars. a lot of the public dislikes the problems created by it also. Sorry some people dislike but I like mine and I am not alone. They don't have much time, Lexus had an 8-speed transmission in 2007, Hyundai even has their own in house built 8-speed. When Cadillac first got 5-speed autos in the CTS and STS the other guys went to 6, when Cadillac got 6-speeds, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus, BMW starting using 7 or 8. If the ATS gets an 8-speed on the 2017 refresh, BMW will probably be on a 10-speed by then. With all the chapter 11 delays on product GM has the late 8 speed is the least of their problems. While I will not dispute anything you said I so want to add some more info here that is relevant.

I am sure they all will get 8 speeds in time as they ramp up production. Even the Malibu has the 4 cylinders on the 4 speed till they got production to the point to support all.

Most cars today will Cruise at 1600-1900 RPM as anything lower tends to be too low. Taller gears are counter productive for the most part the companies like to gear the cars with a gear that will get them to accelerate at a good pace or even better in a performance car but they still really on he upper gears for the Overdrive to bail them out. Todays cars are doing two things here. One is to gain MPG while the other is to lower emissions with these trannys. CO2 laws could be a major issue and with the lower RPM you are putting out less emission and CO2. Yes I agree that the new trannys can and do jump gears as I see it in the Malibu and the Terrain. The other thing I note is while the Malibu when shifted to manual mode will go to what ever gear you are in with the paddle shifters while the Terrain will automatically go to 4 gear if you are in 5-6. It is no longer a one tranny tune for all vehicles anymore as each are tailored so much for the vehicle and drive line package. The Tranny in my Terrain V6 works less than a 2.4 Terrain. GM has really worked hard to get the most out of the 2.4 Eco in such a heavy vehicle, The Corvette team stated they chose the transmissions they are using in the C7 because of the performance is optimum and the weight is good. They claimed anything more did not return any better MPG or performance for the engine they are using. Now if they were using a DOHC non turbo they may be better off with more gears to keep the RPM up when needed. But take any new car today and most will be 1600-1900 RPM in top gear with light throttle on level ground. We will not see much change on this. Also with the drop cylinders engines they need so much RPM to remain smooth. The key is the move to so many Turbo engines are to deliver the low end Torque and get the cars moving to get up to speed faster. Once up to speed you can get off the gas more and longer and with Direct Injection this adds much to the MPG. Now shifting into neutral and coasting does not do the same thing but leave it in gear get off the gas and the MPGs roll up fast. If you learn how to drive a DI engine to take advantage of this you can still have great performance and still get good MPG.

I have always said that what's needed isn't more gears per say but a wider ratio spread -- the lowest gear divided by the tallest. The 7-speed and 8-speed boxes tend to have a wider spread, and this is where the overwhelming majority (like 95%) of the fuel economy advantage comes from. However, more speeds doesn't automatically translate to wider spread. For example:- The current GM 6L80 6-spds auto = 6.05 ratio spread (This is about as good as 6-speed conventional automatics get) ZF's 8HP 8-speed auto (used by BMW) = 7.04 ratio spread Aisin's TL80SN (used by Lexus) = 6.71 ratio spread GM's latest 8-speed to be put into the CTS 3.6 Bi-turbo = 6.71 ratio spread (I suspect it's the same Aisin sourced box as Lexus') Mercedes' 7G-tronic 7-speed auto = 8.86 (best in the world at the moment) Hypothetically, if you are to create a 6-speed transmission with a ratio spread of 7.05:1 it'll accelerate just as fast as the 8-speed ZF in 1st and be just as economical on the freeway in top gear. Acceleration performance through the gears is arguable. An 8-speed allows for closer ratios in between gears and keeps the engine in a slightly more optimal powerband. Yet, having 8-speeds and closer ratios means that you shift more often and in the fraction of a second when the shift occurs, engine power is temporarily interrupted. So, it is hard to say which will be faster. In a V8 or bi-turbo V6 engine with meaty and flat power curves, less gears may actually be faster. In a small displacement engine making peak power high up and in a narrow rpm range (like a Honda S2000 engine for instance) more speeds is probably faster. That is my point. The greatest need will be with larger engines to keep the RPM down on the highway in various gears with overdrive and to a lesser extent the smaller engines. I think the 8 speeds will be the general tranny on the market as it will handle the needs of nearly every engine out there. A few engines may still be a little high strung or a larger engine and need a gear or two but most will do just fine with 8. Also it was noted by someone who really knows this topic that the added weight is also a added consideration to these larger transmissions. I can not recall but he stated the pounds added per gear on average and this is at a time when most companies are removing all the weight they can. Also you have to factor in the weigh of cars too as they get lighter it will change the parameters of need too.

Most cars today have high belt lines to meet crash standards. GM and Chrysler tend too keep the low roof and smaller windows where Ford lifted the roof on the Taurus and look like a SUV or Checker.

Well there are possibilities not even considered here. Just because we know of these two engines does not mean they are the only ones that will be available at the time we get a ATS and CTS V models. Might note there is a LT4 coming that we have little detail on other than more power. Also there is a Corvette prototype with two boost gauges on the dash one on each side of the speedo and is a sign of more to come. GM did not let this one leak by accident. Also we have to consider the 3.6 TT in the CTS is only the standard engine. This could be one of several levels of tune for this engine just as the V8 Too little info here to make a informed intelligent prediction. We have yet to see all that is to come and I would advise to keep tuned in.

If you do not like the XTS here then it is doing it's job. That car is to appeal to the older owners and fleet and not take people away from the CTS and ATS. If we loved the XTS and CTS then Cadillac did something wrong. The XTS will do its thing and the rest of Cadillac will do its thing. Omega is coming the only question is who and how will it be leveraged out over the rest of GM. Will it become a Buick Riviera and a new Holden too? The whole gear thing once you get to 8 starts to get silly but if it sells cars so be it. It is kind of like wheels as once you get so large you start to pay the price in un-sprung weight for the sake of styling. But again if it sells cars so be it.

The present CTS comes in at 3800 pounds and so I expect this one to be similar in weight with the added size. The present Camaro of a similar weight with the LS3 is rated at 16 MPG and 24 MPG. I find of most of GM's cars of late get the posted MPG or a little better 80 % of the time. I expect the Chevy SS to get about the same as the Camaro or one MPG less as I saw some place they expect the car to spec out at 3900 pounds since most will be loaded. But again How many people buy a Twin Turbo for MPG let alone a BMW or Benz. If they do they buy a Diesel

Let really take a look at this. #1 this ain't no economy car. #2 It is a larger car than the last CTS #3 They weight may not be that much different since it has grown in size even on the Alpha. #4 I would not be surprised in the real world numbers will be better. My Turbo is stated as 19 MPG around town and it has never gone below 21 MPG and most year round I see 25 MPG City. #5 The TT is an option engine. If MPG is a factor there are smaller engines and the ATS. #6 I am sure there will be a Turbo Diesel here at some point too for the MPG crowd. I think we should let this play out before we get too worked up. I am sure it will be competitive in class for MPG and as good or better in all other categories. This engine will feel and drive much like a V8 but with max torque coming in at or fellow 1800 RPM and holding it to well over 5000 RPM. As for up grades it only takes a couple Map sensors and a computer flash [they have not used chips in years] to pick up 50-100 emissions and warranty approved HP. This engine and combo should do well for Cadillac and their image. They have stepped out and set themselves apart from the rest of GM with this. Now I only wonder what GM has set for the Vette now? I saw a dash in a C7 with two boost gauges! Could we be on a verge of a Vette engine and CTS V with a TT V8?.

But you had to push the Model T up the steep hills Pops going to School going both ways in 4 feet of snow.

Camino they look down on your taste too so I guess it is a fair fight. The fact is there are a lot of different taste and GM is address more than just yours. There is no right or wrong as long as it sells more cars in more markets. I would not diss this engine too much till you drive it. I suspect based on the Turbo 4 it should be a pretty amazing engine and the torque will be in lower and higher than the old 428 HO Pontiac I used to drive. You will still get your V8 in the V so just hang on there will be a flavor for everyone.

It's for a Cadillac, so complexity and expense is a necessity.... it fits better w/ the market niche than an NA pushrod v8 would....BMW was a twin turbo DOHC 6, the M-B E-class is getting one, Audi has a turbo V6 in the A6. So, it's all about perception? Yes and also what the people in this segment want and buy. You can force on people what they need or you can give them what they want. Like I said in the other tread people in this segment perceived value. Often more technical and the more turbo's and cams the better they like it. Camino you have to remember this is not a muscle car segment and the people here are not hung up on cylinder counts but they are hung up on technology and advanced systems. It is kind of like NASCAR vs. F1. Both are fast and NASCAR is as fast and is cheaper but many love the technology and the strategy of F1 when they can keep the tires on the car. If Cadillac wants to make inroads into Europe they need to offer what they want over there and people here will still by it because it will be a sweet engine. I am willing to bet the torque curve is flatter and wider than the LT1. Either way the CTS standard car is nearly as good as the present V in performance. Make one ponder what they have cooked up for the V. All I know is it will have to be AWD if they want it to hook up. The E63 is now turning 3.5 sec 0-60 times and I expect Cadillac may be able to match that with the V. As good as pushrods are any car sold outside the states will need to give the global markets what they want. I would not be surprised to see some Euro companies look at the push rod again to gain lower hoods. Some showed envy at the Vette. If they enter the market again it will play into GM's hands as they are already there. GM should also do a better job of marketing the V8 to. Too many have no clue how advanced the new LT is. By the way this engine sounds great on the dyno.

The simple answer is when you inject fuel into a cylinder it takes high pressure. To do this you needs high powered injector and high pressure pump on the engine. Keep in mind you are dealing with injector pressures of over 2000 pounds vs. 17-23 pounds of a normal injector. GM went early with little insulation on many of the DI engines and now they have started to work on noise insulation. MY 2.0 DI was retro fitted with a rubber foam cup that cut down the noise on the pump and while the injectors ares heard out side on the inside they are not noticed. I do have a cold air door that make a loud air rush sound till the engine has run for about 3 min. On my 3.6 DI there is no noise inside till you rev it up to about 4500 RPM and higher. It is just an engine rev sound. On the injector pump and injectors they have wrapped them in more insulation than earlier models. Injector and pump noise has never been an issue on the Terrain and Nox web forum. Might note they buried the pump on top of the intake of the new LT engine. They did their best to cover the noise. I think with each engine we will see improvements on DI noise. The only DI worry has been carbon build up on the intakes. Since no fuel flows over them Carbon has been an issue for some. GM says they have it covered but still some have carboned up at 8,000 miles. This is one area to watch as in the past the intakes were cleaned with incoming fuel and today no fuel passes over them. I suspect GM has some over lap but at low RPM driving they never catch any fuel with cleaners. The harder you drive and more RPM the better may help? The oil is just what little that passes the guide to lube it and normally was cleaned off but today it carbons up with the heat. The Exhaust will just burn off as normal. Audi and VW have had major carbon issue.

Things that are killing Cadillac are small detail things like the shifters in the manual cars. Why can they never seem to get it right. Todays transmissions are internal shifted so getting it right is not like fixing an old Saginaw shifter. They are so close I hope GM lets the engineers and stylist close the deal with out trying to trim the investments in the cars before they hit the market.. This is where Mark needs to hold his ground and Dan should back him up on what Mark feels is the right thing to do.

Stop just Stop! Enough tech talk that means little to 90% of the people unless you make it a value you can market too. They can do this engine 6 ways to Sunday if they like. They can also keep it easily Premium recommended just based on the computer alone and still yield high numbers. If they need or want to use cheaper fuel it will just cost them some power. VVT and the other electronics can do wonders today and has kept nearly all the GM engine with this option. Like it or not people of all classes like the fuel option and it will never limit sales no matter the price of the car. Some of the richest people I know can cheap out often and something like fuel is one thing. Second they should not intro the engine as a Cadillac first. It is a GM engine and will remain a GM engine just as the Delta II or Alpha is a GM Platform. They do need to make the engine more divisional when installing it in the cars. At Cadillac people are paying more so they generally expect more. Just tune the engines to the point that they have more HP across the board than the equal platform Chevy. In other words the 3.6 in the ATS should have more power than the Camaro 3.6 same for the 2.0 Turbo. Also the CTSV should not have the same power as the ZL1 like they are already doing. Now as for dress they can do a hell of a lot with these engines. I would spec for Cadillac at least powder coated Valve Covers with polished centers with the Cadillac script on them. Also polished stainless fasteners on them. A V series could use a Carbon Fiber etc. Also do something with the Intake to set it apart. Also give Cadillac their own engine names and drop the L number and leave them to Chevy and Buick. The key is to present the engine as added value as right now there is no more added value to the engine than any other GM product in most cases. Cadillac want to be seen as a global premium car they need to present added value everywhere they can. They are now just getting it right in the interior after years of failure they also need to reach other areas of the car. In cases like suspension no cheap OE tires on any level only new up to date tires. To often GM will give you a top line car and dump a set of cheap Hankooks or out dated Pilots on them. You may get away with this on a Chevy but not on a Cadillac. In the past we looked at cars like Packard, Cadillac, Rolls Royce as cars that were no compromise and held the best that each company offered. Cadillac is moving to this but has yet to achieve it in the ATS and CTS. If they want the LTS to do so they need to achieve there also. It is time to unleash The engineers, stylist and marketing people and let them do their jobs. GM has some of the best people in the world and setting them free to build this car as it should be can be done. We can see under Bob Lutz what their people could do when enabled and he had their backs. Body gaps shrank, engines improved with more power and quality and styling improved much. The key here is you fix Cadillac and it will reflect on all of GM. Like it or not Twin Turbo's, DOHV engines, more gears in the tranny, better door handles, real wood trim etc are all seen as added value and what you get for the premium price. Now I know Cadillac will offer the TT V6 and expand it's use in the future. I also know they are pretty much going to use the GM V8 which is not bad but they need to do a better job of making it their own and making it a big deal it is in the car and market it as being better in a Cadillac because Cadillac made it better. I have already heard that the Cadillac people have already lost in a fight over higher quality door handles on one of their new cars. GM cut them back to something like $5 door handles. What is the first thing people touch on a car? The door handle and it makes the first tactual impression. If GM wants Cadillac to grow into the premium brand they want they need to start letting them be the premium brand they should be and not short cut anywhere. Cadillac was lost when it just became another variation of the rest of the GM line sharing many parts with them other then the name plate and grill. If Buick gets the Riviera like shown in the most recent Automobile Cadillac may lose the younger buyers to Buick. I am not sure how accurate their drawing was but the Riviera on the Omega platform with that styling looks like a very expensive car in a Maserati kind of way. It looked like a Buick built in Italy. Styling like that is Added Value!

Fleet sales are a dumping ground for GM and other companies just trying to keep volume. GM could care less about who and how many Impala's they sell on the secondary market as it effects them little. GM needs to concentrate on selling the cars at a higher profit and make more per car vs. just dumping them on the fleets just to unload them and keep a plant busy. I took a big hit on my 04 GP as there are so an Grand Prix's dumped on the market that I was lucky to get the price I did on trade. The dealer sat on the car for 5 months and never sold it even when they lowered the price down to what they gave me. Keep in mind this was even a GTP Comp G that was a 9 on a 10 scale in condition. I am sure it went to auction. GM did me a favor with the Captiva as they have cut back on Nox to fleets and never really pushed the Terrain there. The prices have remained pretty stable. Also the Small Crossover market is so strong now the prices are holding like they do on used trucks. My trucks were the best resale. the delaer gave me $5K for a 88 S10 with over 100,000 miles and I only paid $9K for it 10 years before. The sales man had already made me a good deal on my GMC and told me he had a buyer for the S10 if I was interested. My GMC when I sold it sold in just a couple hours after the sign went in and I got top dollar. GM cars have been a good deal if you buy used but that is not good for selling or buying new cars.

You missed the point that the Turbo 4 is the same as the Malibu and the basic engine is the same in the Sierra. You have to have the full package too attract the small segment of the market these cars attract. The profits are high so it is important to gain each and every one. Even a advanced engine in the lower car is not better as VW has found with the Phaeton W12. Like it or not technology and HP sell in this segment. They may not always know what it means but they often want the latest and greatest in their eyes. Even the track record at the Ring did not knock the 3 series out of the lead. This whole deal is multidimensional and needs to be addressed as a package not just with a truck based engine with a big plastic cover on it or just trying to copy BMW in other ways.

Agreed. And to your point, that brand-specific approach will have to start at Cadillac where the top notch ratings should appear. Yes If they have to use the corporate engines they need to do better on making them a Cadillac engine to set them apart. Just look at the Verano and Cruze and how they share the same base Buick has made the Verano it's own. The same should be done with the engines. Even Pontiac in my Fiero made a 2.8 HO that was higher HP than even the Chevy version by a few HP. Also they dressed the engine in Aluminum and Red Powder coat with stainless manifolds not available at Chevy. The intake and V cover are bolted down with polished 12 point stainless fasteners that look as if they came from ARP. Pontiac even did their own fuel injection system vs. the Chevy. If Pontiac could do this on a lowly Fiero Cadillac could put more effort into the engines to give them just a leg up. Badge engineering is not just platforms but it also can apply to engines too. One area I do see Cadillac making more of a difference is AWD. I expect the CTSV may apply AWD and at some point the ATS may also. I think we may not see them till a they have a transmission that can handle it. they should have that soon.

And the real issue is that in this segment 75% of the sales are just because of that badge. People who buy on emotion and ego and seldom rational. If they have an issue with a 3-4 year old car they often just buy a new one. These buyers often also have more money than a Buick buyer.

The reality is that most of the high end cars are seldom owned after the warranty is out. These folks buy cars every 3 years most often. They have the money to buy big and buy often and could care less about much after 100,000 miles. I had a co worker just by a 5 series used and he will pay the price of the higher miles that the original owner who has moved on to a newer BMW will not have to worry about. Buying habits count for much here as where someone who buys a Buick may not be a yearly car buyer let alone one who buys a new car once every 10 years like my Buick owning parents were in the last 15 years. You need to consider the demographics of the buyers in America as while there are some poverty buyers who hawk everything to buy a car that is worth more than their house most buyers are wealthy enough to now have to worry long term on these cars. This issue falls to those who finally can afford one on the used market and end up finding often they can afford the used BMW but not the maintenance. The new buyers often want to be seen in the latest and best and would not want to be seen at the club in a 5 year old car. You have to really look at who the buyers are and why they buy. Lexus is the one who gets most of the new buyers who can not afford a car often. Many turn to them since the cost of maintaining them is less than many of the German brands. The Automakers could care less about the used market as they do not have to maintain it and ego drives those who want to be seen as one of their owners often gets fooled into paying the cheaper buy in only to pay later. People are dumb and often are driven by ego and vanity. If the product does not feed the ego and their vanity they will see all the bumps and issued of the product. As of now GM has improved the Cadillac Image but they still have more ground to gain till they get to the point many of these buyers will forgive them for nearly anything. Once GM finds a way to get people under 50 to buy in larger numbers and people 25 and under to want to own a Cadillac then GM will be where they need to be. Get it to where Buffy from Orange County tells Dad I want a ATS convertible for my birthday and Cadillac will see greater future growth. The FWD will be a wild car here as the Imports will have to yield to these cars to make it in this market and meet the future regs. Just how well they will do is to be determined. To be honest GM has a great leg up in this segment as they have much better technology already in the FWD area. GM has a opening to meet and beat them in this area but it also is an area that the consumers may reject too? Caddy may win here but if the segment bombs it would be a hollow victory.

Well you left out the part of the N star was mostly FWD and in cars that were not even close to being on par with the present cars. Also the part about issues with blown head gaskets and carboned up oil rings. When you use an example like this use all the facts not just the ones that work for you. And now you can not count the XLR and STS RWD since they were so few in numbers. Most people did not even know what engine was in them let alone much about the models till they were gone. Now they have already pushed the record lap time at the Ring, 0-60 time and the MPG already. Brother you need to refill the tank with some more gas. All of this is good but you need to do more to get that emotional edge. This is where logic is out the door and you sell on emotion. If logic ruled here why in the hell would anyone pay near $80K for a car that you can get a cheaper car to do nearly the same thing. You have to stoke the ego here and make a major appeal to the emotional side. The way I see it GM likes to call the new engines a Small Block and try to make everyone think the new LT1 is just a better version of what they built in 1955 for the trucks and Vette. On the other hand the engine really only shares some simple measurements and is a totally new advanced engine. Where that halo of the old engine my help a pick up it hurts the Cadillac as it is seen nearly as platform sharing. Nothing wrong with platform sharing if you do it right. I would have no issue with the engine sharing here but they need to stop calling this engine a Small Block and market it as the advanced engine that it is. Also they need to do verision for Cadillac and only Cadillac with more power and better looks than just a plastic cover. Same goes for the Eco and the 3.6. You may not like the 3.6 and 3.0 turbo but if they follow the plan where only Cadillac has it that is what needs to be done. GM will have to share engines but they need to make these shared engines tailored more to each division.

GM with most of their cars will withhold fleet sales as much as possible. They want to get back to where they keep resale up and customer happy. They would be best served to keep the old car in production like the Vue and sell it as fleet only. Tire companies have done this for years where they sell older model tires to the OE MFG at a cheap price since they make little money on them and save the good tires for the replacement market and the top level performance cars. I think they would have done better to sell the old Malibu as a fleet car and toss the old Impala. But then many would see where the new Malibu pales to the old one.

You can twist the push rods anyway you want but the key to all this is what engine will people pay more for and buy more cars with. Also with driveline would attract more people to Cadillac and buy the cars leaving other brands? It again is more about marketing vs just numbers on paper. That is the one key area that hurts the ATS. While it has a sweet engine in a Turbo 4 and V6 the issue is they ate the same engines I can buy in a GMC and Malibu. If Cadillac wants to continue using these engines and the push rod V8 they need to set them apart more with their own tunes and with better trim than just a plastic cover over it to make it look as sophisticated as the DOHC engine. I have not issue with the numbers on the push rods but if it will not draw in new fresh buyers then it will be of no help no matter how light, small and powerful they are. This is about selling the most cars at a profit and building a new customer base not of present Cadillac or GM buyers. What are their expectations, wants and needs to get them to make the jump. Most of these people are not engineers and only believe what they are told and that often more is better. You can not treat this completely rationally.