hyperv6

Stop playing dumb. LOL! You know as much as I that one factor is the price of fuel and the other fact is we would not have these smaller cars if it were not for the looming CAFE average of 52 MPG average. The one other factor also is the price as few people can afford full size anything anymore. The many people have down sized as their incomes are not what they used to be and increases in taxes are also taking a chunk. The fact is people have less to spend today and will have less to spend in the near future. Hell not all that long ago a well equipped Suburban could be had for $35K now you would be lucky to find a Nox stickered for that price. Now answer me this, would we have the Volt, Hybrids and Spark if it were not for the looming CAFE average in 11 years? The fact is some folks think if the present party is voted out that they average will be dropped. It might but not by much as the genie is out of the bottle. The new genie is that the government wants us to save fuel and conserve but now with the higher MPG cars we have driven more miles as a country than ever. The market is not shifting on its own. The fact is Ford outside of the Mustang and truck does not offer a V8 anymore and not because people would not buy it. If you want a V8 in a GM car you need to spend well over $30K for it and that price will rise as GM and other will want people to opt for smaller cars and engines. The fact is the MFG have to find a way to get people to buy small and high MPG if they want to meet the government mandate. The public to day is like a rat in a maze. They may make the choice of what direction to a point but they will all be force to the same place no matter what. You think GM is limiting the SS with a high price because they just want to sell only 5K cars just because they want it to be rare. No they made it clear a while back that they had to limit the car due to CAFE issues. What better way to limit a car as saying we will build what ever you want but we will have a price much higher than what we could sell it for. Do you think the SS price will be reasonable after what they already showed us how cheap they can sell the base model in OZ or even the G8 just a few years ago? The root is Gov mandated CAFE and the control is the economic factors of gas prices and car pricing. Anything in the future that has a V8 or excessively low MPG that affects CAFE will have added cost to help limit sales but still offer the car. You can get it but you will have to pay for it. No one is going to do a gas tax while in office to let people choose the cars they want. This is why Lutz and others want a gas tax to let the consumer choose what they drive. first three paragraphs spot on. world pressure is for US to reduce fuel consumption and then there is the whole CO2 thing. People typically have shown in the past they will buy as large as their wallet allows. Nowadays people buy a Cruze because that is their budget. While I do agree with some about some cars are too large bit (for example I would prefer to drive a Kizashi instead of an Altima for example but the Kizashi at least has enough room for me to sit in back as the same for my kids) most of the shift to smaller cars is due to forces beyond the control of the buyers declining income and purchasing power rising fuel prices rising taxes and other daily expenses CAFE globalization of powertrains and the Eurotax etc. on displacement. I love the idea of a car that gets great Mpg. But there is also first cost, and there is also function, is the car large enough for what i do ....more importantly if i load it up with 4 people and bags for 3-4 days. I think CAFE needs a repeal. Let the market work by itself. Gas tax is probably one of the more fair ways to encourage or discourage fuel consumption. In todays world it is sad you can fool most of the people all of the time but thank God that some of the people are still not fooled at all and understand what is going on in the real world. Too bad it is fewer everyday. Just look at how many can't even name who their senator is or even who the vice president is so how can we expect them to understand how regulation is affecting their lives positive or negative. Some people get what they deserve too bad they take the rest of us with them. It is what it is. .

Why did GM panic and down size to generic ugly boxes in the 80's CAFE, Why did they look for a replacement for the V8 in the Corvette till they invested more technology that found more MPG. CAFE. Why did GM build the X body and then the J cars etc. all with FWD, CAFE. What is todays greatest concern of each automaker CAFE. The CAFE mandates have done a lot of harm to MFG's as it has forced them into a box. But it also has forced them to use better and much more expensive technology. We would still be on carburetors and not see a growth in better Turbo chargers etc. It has been a two edges sword with good and bad effects. The bottom line if you think in your utopian Willy Wonka world that todays cars would not look like they do today without Government mandated CAFE, Emissions and Crash Standards may be I have given you too much credit. Before you get your panties in a bunch this is not just a party thing but just a government thing as much of this would have come no matter who was in charge. Of late the levels were taken to a palace most MFG just have not figured out how to meet them now. I wonder how much more the coming mostly aluminum Atlas based Ford F150 will cost. Of course they are going mostly aluminum because of all the red necks down south are demanding that their truck be built from aluminum, Right not a desperate attempt to find more MPG and keep a larger truck? The CAFE has nothing to do with that one! LOL! To each his own.

Stop playing dumb. LOL! You know as much as I that one factor is the price of fuel and the other fact is we would not have these smaller cars if it were not for the looming CAFE average of 52 MPG average. The one other factor also is the price as few people can afford full size anything anymore. The many people have down sized as their incomes are not what they used to be and increases in taxes are also taking a chunk. The fact is people have less to spend today and will have less to spend in the near future. Hell not all that long ago a well equipped Suburban could be had for $35K now you would be lucky to find a Nox stickered for that price. Now answer me this, would we have the Volt, Hybrids and Spark if it were not for the looming CAFE average in 11 years? The fact is some folks think if the present party is voted out that they average will be dropped. It might but not by much as the genie is out of the bottle. The new genie is that the government wants us to save fuel and conserve but now with the higher MPG cars we have driven more miles as a country than ever. The market is not shifting on its own. The fact is Ford outside of the Mustang and truck does not offer a V8 anymore and not because people would not buy it. If you want a V8 in a GM car you need to spend well over $30K for it and that price will rise as GM and other will want people to opt for smaller cars and engines. The fact is the MFG have to find a way to get people to buy small and high MPG if they want to meet the government mandate. The public to day is like a rat in a maze. They may make the choice of what direction to a point but they will all be force to the same place no matter what. You think GM is limiting the SS with a high price because they just want to sell only 5K cars just because they want it to be rare. No they made it clear a while back that they had to limit the car due to CAFE issues. What better way to limit a car as saying we will build what ever you want but we will have a price much higher than what we could sell it for. Do you think the SS price will be reasonable after what they already showed us how cheap they can sell the base model in OZ or even the G8 just a few years ago? The root is Gov mandated CAFE and the control is the economic factors of gas prices and car pricing. Anything in the future that has a V8 or excessively low MPG that affects CAFE will have added cost to help limit sales but still offer the car. You can get it but you will have to pay for it. No one is going to do a gas tax while in office to let people choose the cars they want. This is why Lutz and others want a gas tax to let the consumer choose what they drive.

Last I looked, the Expedition XL and Suburban were still in production. Don't blame the government for GM's miss-handling of platforms... Yes like they sell a ton of those like they used too. You know as well as I do that we are in transition of old GM and new GM and the new GM has done pretty well with what they were given to work with till they can fix it all. Now visit me back on this in 2025 and just see how big you cars and half ton trucks are. You are one of those around here that it smart enough to know where this is all going.

Government regulations have a way of doing that. That may be why they are now wanting to tell us what to eat and how much. They want to make sure we fit in the little cars they have forced on us LOL!

There has been demand for used Captiva's here and they are selling as fast as they come available. I look for out going models to be used more and more for fleet use and discounting. It not only is income for GM from a dead horse but it also protects the buyers of the new product. GM has made a point of this on most new models. The 2.0T is the only 4 that should have been used in the Impala but it is not to be at this point. While the Impala is narrow it will still seat 3 across fine if anyone with a sedan still does that.

Sorry but I was not trying to be political but it is what it is on the cause and effect and I do not see it changing now no matter who is in office. I do agree the Taurus needs to gut the interior as it feels very cramped for a larger car. The console is way to large. The impala it light years larger inside than the Malibu. My SSEI did not have the leg room front or rear that this car has. Now to be fair it may be a little narrower but they make good use and packaging of the space given. The Malibu is a good car in a sector of really great cars. It was just late to market and it shows. GM could release it as it was and make due or stayed with a old car and suffered even more losses. The update we will see I firmly believe was already in the works when the car was released as GM knew they needed It but could not wait two years more to release the car. As for price get with it people that is the going rate for a average large American sedan not in the luxury group. Sorry but look around. Sure you can get a gutted ATS for a little less but option it up and you are at $51K and just wait to see what the new CTS will set you back. To make the Impala cheaper would put it right on top of the Malibu and to make it cheaper it would put it on top of the Cruze. The only reason the old one was so cheap is the tooling was paid for on the W body 18 years ago and they could not give them away at the price they should have been. Times are transitional at GM and prices are going to go up more and more in the next 10 years. The real danger for the automakers will be the fact that with falling wages and the rising cost of products less and less people will be able to consider a new car. Also with higher taxes on the affluent it will make them scale back too. I have already seen it. The issue there is nearly 70% of the auto profits come from the luxury cars and you lose those it will hurt over all. Chevy make money by volume like a grocery store and with trucks. Buick and Cadillac make it on content. Chevy really is going to have the Cruze, Sonic and Malibu hold the line as they will be the main income cars. The improvements to the Malibu will be critical and the next new model will be a must have hit. GM has done a great job of protecting buyers from fleet sales as resale values are much better on new product. The use of the Captiva and old Impala have been key. I see GM doing this into the future and limit the fleet sales much more than many of you expect. The only thing to change that is dire times if the economy tanks again. Having been in the Impala and seen what it can do it is a Damn fine car. It is not a sports sedan, it is not a fleet service car and it is not a high volume car as the other Chevys. It fills a niche that the Taurus now fills l less the SHO model. Lets put it this way at the Auto Show this year it was the only Chevy I had to wait In line to sit in. even with a ZR1, ZL1 and 2014 Pick up sitting on the floor. There was a line and the comment were all positive and that is not something I have heard about the Impala for a long time from many in the general public. I do have one neg on the Impala the steering wheel is lame but out side that it is going to sell well. Last month it was the second fastest selling Chevy car and it had just hit the market. As for the RWD vs FWD with the general public I see no issue with this car as most in the public if given the choice would pick FWD like it or not. Now if they tried to pass this car off as a SS sports sedan then I would say that would be an issue for the limited number they would sell but John and Jane Q public buy FWD in the millions every year and that is not going to be an issue. Price too is not a great issue out side the new Hyundai they just came out with as it is cheap with many standard options. But then you get what you pay for and many never go back to Hyundai too.

None of them are worth that. Dinner for 3 at Arbys is not worth $19.00 but welcome the change everyone wanted. The best things in life are not free and if you want government health care, higher min wage and a party paying back union support you are going to pay for it no matter how much they raise taxes on the evil rich. LOL! The fact is that today with wages, taxes, benefits, increased government regulation and energy cost the price of everything is going up and will continue do so. The impala in 10 years will be smaller and closer to $50K. So get used to it as there is no turning back now. And the FED RWD debate is subjective in the non enthusiast area as there is a lot more of them and they want FWD. But I will not be surprised if a non SS RWD may be offered once they change platforms if they can move production to this company and share a line with the Caddies and the Camaro. What is in play here is more than what we know and GM knows a hell of a lot more on the next move or two we have not even been hinted on. As for the fleet look for very few to be fleeted in the Impala. Who would want them when most companies are looking to cut cost. Most companies and cities are going to small FWD cars with smaller 4 cylinders to save fuel cost. and purchase cost. Cities are broke and most will not buy the larger stuff out side state police and some local departments. I am not sure we will even see a police package on the Impala. Something else to consider is this Impala may not be around really long. This is a old platform and the Impala has gotten to use all that is refined on it. But in a few years who knows a NA built Alpha based Impala could be added to the SS line and that would give room for the next Malibu to have a large niche between the Impala and Cruze. Lets face it GM has to do some changes here as the 3 segments are almost on top of each other. There is a lot in play here and we have a lot to learn and see yet. I would recommend lets watch GM play this out more and we will have a better understanding.

I can see many here have not really seen what many cars cost anymore. The old Impala discounting has distorted reality. The new Impala is a $30K - 41K car. It has been moved up to face the Taurus head on price wise. It is not longer considered the high volume car it once was as the Malibu is now that car but there in lies the problem. First off the new car is only related to the old in name only as it is much more of a car than the last one. It is not going to be a fleet car and nor will it be a sports sedan. The Impala has one job to do and that is to be a near luxury sedan and do everything well for the target market it is. This folks is the new Le sabre for younger people. GM has pretty much outline the task at hand for this car and made it clear from the first that it was not the discounted bargain car it once was. I suspect the overlap with the Lacrosse will soon disappear once it is replaced as the Buick is moving up. We have to remember that all the parts of GM are not yet in place or announced so once they do get these things to market we will see that Buick will grow to fill the lower slot Cadillac once did and carve out its own place. This will let the larger Chevy move into a higher slot to give the Malibu and Cruse more room to move. Look for the Malibu fixes to make it more of a smaller Impala and it will better fill the slot of the old Impala. The new Fusion has already taken the place of the old Taurus. Today the average price of a car is nearing $35K so that means the mid size car is filling this slot. There is a slot for a FWD car in this price range as ever company either has one or is just now filling this slot. Believe it or not in the real world the average buyer wants FWD. Ford, Chevy. Toyota and now Hyundai has just come out with a car in this segment. They are proving popular with those who want a luxury car but are willing to forgo some perks for a lower price. A similar priced Cadillac will be $10-15K more and the Buick will be moving up soon. Chevy said most of these will be LT models and in the mid $30K range and represent a good value for the buyer. The only real mistake I see is the 4 cylinder non Turbo. I just do not see anyone in this class being too happy with that. The key for this to work is #1 get the Malibu fixed. #2 get the Lacrosse replace in 2-3 years with a upgraded model.

Yes the Malibu will take on a mini Impala persona soon. Also check out the Car and Driver story on the new Volt. Not sure if they based their story fact or wishful thinking but it looks like the spawn of a Impala and ELR. It looks pretty nice and less scientific.

GM has a video out where the engineer drove 900 miles on a tank at 5 under the speed limit. GM needs to stick to real numbers like 10 over the speed limit.

For now but the Captiva may be gone soon. I think the Holden version got the 3.6 already. I think once GM got the DI on the 3.6 they just want top pare down the number of V6 engines offered.

No flash drive. I have the slot in my console. They have web sites to announce the updates and to down load. It is just like my TV. SD cards would work on older units or the Nav units too. I think you could even use a lap top plugged in too.

Updates are coming and most will be free. Even Mylink will have free up dates and firmware changes.

Nice to see first hand opinion here! The greatest issue here is just weight and age. This was a segment leaders when it came in and turn over in this segment comes fast. It is just time to do a new one and pick up where the present on is leaving off. For once this is a case where GM does not have a deficient to make up since even the old model is still doing well. The more money for refinement and development will solve many of the issues. I credit the changes Lutz brought in that made the present one as good as it was and these changes will continue to affect the new one but they will have a much better budget to work with. I think the loss of the 3.0 was economic as the new engine has a little more power and MPG and why have two engines so close to each other when you have limited needs for a V6 in most models anymore. It was a good move but I would not rush right out to trade my 2012 to get one. Also I have no regrets not waiting. The color we bought was dropped for 2013 and we would not trade the color for the engine. Keep in mind my wifes last two cars were 3800 SC cars at her request. Her only complaint is she wished she got a couple more mpg. Keep in mind the 3.0 and 3.6 is more than enough here as this is a top heavy CUV and not a Camaro.

Since I own both they both do a good job but the real issue is this. The 2.0 Turbo in a vehicle that heavy would take a dive in MPG. Yes you can make a lot of low end torque but the use of the engine will need more or boost more often and it effect the MPG. Trust me I know. Even with the added RPM the V6 will do 19 city and 26 Highway with 4,000 pound+ all day long. Now my HHR does better but it take little to start moving it as it only has 3200 pounds to move. Note GM only has been using the 2.0 Turbo in cars 3500 pounds or less for a reason.

The fact is even in a high demand car the wait for 90 days is way too much. Buying a car today is a very emotional and impulsive thing. To be honest it always has been and that is why salesmen always like to play on it. Once many fall in love with a car they often want to leave with it that night and often are willing pay way too much for the privilege. I wonder how many of the larger dealers will order the cars to bring in and sit on the lot. If they don't sell it they can make a dealer trade and still make money on the car. The dealers who can afford to do this will be the ones to move product. I always get what I want and I have never had to wait 90 days or even order a car. Dealer trades have always netted what I wanted in just 1-2 days. While the SS is a nice car they will lose many sales by not having any on any lots anywhere for a dealer to access.

The 2.0 does not make better power than the 3.0 in the trim we will see but it does have lower end torque and the curve is flat as Bonneville. The new one the Turbo 4 will do just fine with the less weight. The Buick Encore does need some more ponies compared to others in the segment. They need one up option in addition to the present engine. Adequate is not good enough for 35% of the segment. As for the $24K Edge? You sure as hell don't get much for under $30K in it with a V6. Once you load it up then it get stupid over priced. At that point you are better off in a non Turbo Explorer. Either way the present Nox and Terrain are the old ones in the segment and are still selling well. The Terrain numbers are as high as ever and the Nox is not really slacking off. Once the catch them up to the rest of the segment with the new features, better MPG and higher grade soft touch interiors they should be spot on if they get the styling right.

Here is the deal the first gen suffered from the lack of development and refinement since GM had no money. The second gen got a boost in refinement and development but it still was limited. I think you see the difference in the second gen due to the Lutz factor as he pressed for the extras to make them better when those before him would just say good enough. As for the 3.0 V6 it is fine. The truth is you need to learn to drive it like a Northstar and rev it. The engine really is not alive till you come up on 4000 RPM. It does a very good job for moving two tons. As for the 3.6, it is better but only a little. It was a good move but there is no night a day difference. As for Size there is a lot of wasted space in the present one from the driver to the windshield. Also while the rear seat room is nice they could snug it up and still have a lot of room left. The next one will have a more shallow dash and the rear seat will lose a little leg room but it will not lack leg room. The weight loss will be the major improvement and needed improvement. I agree no V6 but with a good 2.0 Turbo there will be no need for it. The main complains on the present vehicle is the lack of MPG, Lack of cargo room with out folding a seat and the lack of vents for heat and AC to the rear seat. As for Terrain or Nox it just depends on what you want Round or Square and red or blue dash. The new one will maintain and or increase sales as many have defected because of the issues with the aging unit. Others are offering less weight and more features and GM will not let it go unanswered.

We do need to keep an thought to the future. This car is just getting Chevy back into the segment. If it were not for NASCAR I wonder if they would even be doing this one now. Just call it a hunch I suspect in 2-3 years the replacement will be on a Alpha platform and will be built in MI on the Camaro, CTS and ATS line. I think they are just buying time here. Still they should just bring in 8K cars in various colors in most normal options and just sell them.

Also it depended on what part of the country you were in. Here in the Midwest the GTO's were plenty in number as they expected sales to be strong here. Well they sold but not like they expected. On the other hand prices were up in Calif as the car was more popular than expected. I would not call it a fire sale on the GTO but toward the end it was not hard to get a good buy. Prices like the G8 went up after they stopped production. I could have bought a G8 GT here for $23K new and later on the same car used was $27K.

This is going to hurt more than help. People today want things now not 3 months from now. I see many lost sales due to this plan. This is a instant gratification society anymore. Hell I have people who will not wait 30 days for a performance exhaust or wheels do you really think they will wait 90 days? With limited options they need to do a general import of colors and sunroofs. Offer these to customers and if the colors do not suit then they can wait if they have to. If no cars are on lots this thing will be lucky to move 5000 units a year. Let face it at this price point there are many other ready on the lot options. The fire sale of G8 models had more to do with a lot of V6 models and the fact Pontiac was DOA. Not many people wanting to pay almost $40K at that time when GM may not have gotten a bail out. Lets just pray in 2-3 years the SS moved to the Alpha and is built in MI.

The strip was an issue on the first ones. GM addressed it the next year and offered a TSB on the early ones. They needed a shield to protect the chrome from rubbing the paint. As for the rear cover I an not sure what happened there. mine is tough enough to take a lot of crap we have tossed in over the last year. Including tool bag much heavier than a bowling ball. His may have has a thin spot.

Owned a Terrain over a year now and not one single issue. As a whole most Nox and Terrains are problem free on their forum. There are some nit pickers and a few people who did get the bum one but the majority sing praise. Out of 30 plus new GM cars in our family since the 60's it and the HHR are the only two with zero defects from the factory.

It may just be me but I do not understand the attraction here. But I do understand the sales and the number they move of these at high profit. I would bet women buy 75% of these or more. I seldom see a man driving one. To me I also get the tall wagon look and cheap looking dash. I also do not understand the sport option. This is anything but sport. The sport issue is not just for this either I would not want to see a SS Nox either. There are many things I do not like on the market but if it make money and a lot of it God Bless em. Cars are built and sold to make money and if people want crap give it to em. In this market it is what ever it takes to survive. I have said that the love affair for the car is pretty much over with the general public for a long time. Many here wanted to contest it but here is exhibit A the Camry is exhibit B.