hyperv6

SMK you need to start playing with the reality blocks. #1 The Omega needs to be used for more than the CT6 and 8 #2 The Avenir was well reaccepted and would make a nice full size addition with a TT V6 leaving the V8 to Cadillac. #3 How in the hell do you think you will get a Omega Riviera at $40K Coupes are a hard sell and even a Malibu is nearing $40k today. You will not get much Riv for $40K A 4 model line up would do well and help leverage out the Omega much better. Cadillac is going to a place where few can afford to buy and if you do not offer something below it people will go else where. The Avenir was too close to production to ignore. With the CT6 coming this year I would not be surprised to see a production Avenir next year. The Encore has been a surprise and the Verano is a nice option for those who want more in a small car since so few are offered. It would be nice if they moved the engines away from the Cruze a little more. You pay more you should get more. The Verano, Regal, Lacrosse and Avenir will make a good line up and an Omega Coupe shared with Cadillac would make a nice Riv starting at $50K by the time it would reach market in 2018-19. Offer it in a GS model with TT V6 and AWD. That would make a very good GT Car for the money and not step on the Camaro. El it would not be a complete rebuild but a revamp of the present models. Lets face it they are all old and all need the new platforms. GM has done well but we do not need to repeat history with the never dying W body. It was a good car but it did stay too long due to the lack of money.

Well we are in a transitional time for Cadillac and Buick. The listing is pretty much how it is going to work. FWD and AWD is mostly going to make up most of the line up in cars and CUV models. The Lacrosse did not go to the Impala and XTS because that one is going to die. It is already on the enlarges Lacrosse platform as it is. The key it to cut mass and not cut into profits and that is why they chose the new Malibu platform. It will be a larger car but will see weight savings and profit protected. As Cadillac moves up the Buicks will get an Omega. I expect a sedan and coupe. Now even if it is called a Grand National for what ever reason it will not be a black retro muscle car. They would be better off using a new name as it will be more like a Euro GT coupe. These cars will get the TT V6 as Cadillac moves to their own engines. Buick will get more use because of this. Also Buicks will fill the Cadillac price range. This is one of the reasons they can not just under price Cadillac's on a whim. They have set their path and they have to stick to it for the whole program to work. The key now is to take Cadillac to the place they will be worth the cost. Johann has made it clear that they have good cars now but not good enough. To be the best in class you must build the best to where no one can say different. That is their target and that is why the new cars got kicked down the road now that the new money arrived. Buick is only in the first stage of rebuilding and like Chevy and Cadillac it will take two or three generations to get them to where they need to be. Just re bodying a Camaro is not going to fix Buick they have to take an Alpha or Omega and make it their own. Cadillac has to move away from Buick just as Buick needs to move away from Chevy. Cars like the new models and the second gen Adam will help do this. Buick moving up also helps Chevy as they do not have to over price cars like ford has done with the Fusion and Taurus. Lets face it a $40K plus AWD Fusion is a bit much just as a SVO Taurus nearing $50K. GM can lay these more premium models on Buick and give people a car that is a step up over the Value brand. You will get a whole new brand for your money vs. a fancy version of the value model. I think Ford will miss Mercury as they let them wither on the vine. Mercury failed do to neglect not the concept of having a middle brand.

The trailblazer was a nice vehicle in Short wheelbase in long it was just silly looking. The I6 was a gas hog and very expensive to build and that is what killed it. The V8 my neighbors has is not any better on MPG. I expect the Tahoe will shrink to a model based on the Colorado at some point in the half ton segment. The government is going to hit these hard and they need to lose mass and the smaller size like the Colorado is how they will do it. The FWD/AWD is what people want today in volume. The Explorer and the GM models have already proven that. While us the enthusiast are not interest so much the general public who are the majority think other wise. You build cars for the market no the whims of the minority of the market. At least if you want money. No on making a minivan. They are dead horses. We will get a new leaner full size van soon and we will see some smaller vans but they will be like the Fords more tailored for company use. The moving rear seat in my Terrain sounds like a great idea on paper and in marketing but it is like the paddle shifters on my Malibu. Neat to see at the dealer but you seldom use it. The Terrain seat is set and never moved. Now the reclining rear seat back even though they are airline like in movement is nice and often used. I agree if you need a third row in a small CUV you really need a bigger vehicle. It is like complaining about the size of a trunk in a Sonic sedan. The issue is the seats in the smaller vehicles fit few people and the ones who do need to be nearly legless. The seat also takes up space for cargo and you have to pull it out to do much with it in most vehicles. the front seats at least fold but many of the rear seats need to be removed. The Flex for GM.....No. Ford is not really selling a ton and they are not cheap. You can build something that looks like it but make it taller and truck like. People do not want to pay for a truck or the MPG but they want it to look like a truck.

I really so not see where anyone can be unhappy here. They will offer two models that are smaller and will compete head to head in the smaller segments and the two others will compete and fill the gaps for those who want larger and more seats. GM has all the bases covered. Generally the small vehicles even with two rows are enough. We have never had more than 5 in our Terrain and it is rare you need to carry more than that. If you do generally you own a Tahoe or Traverse. This third row thing is way over blown. It's like the city busses here. All seats and no passengers.

Well first off GM is like most other brands committed to the FWD/RWD. RWD in large volumes would pose a problem for future CAFE and they can make them lighter in FWD based unit body. It has not hurt the Explorer any, I expect the Nox and Terrain to be smaller but priced about the same in price paid. Lets face it they do offer a $23K model but most are $27-$38 K and the GMC is now just over $40K in Denali trim. The same for the Acadia as it will move to the mid size and hold the price while the new model will be larger and more expensive. I expect the Acadia to be more Explorer sized on a shorter wheel based by just a little. I expect it to be more SUV like in looks vs Minivan like as it is now. I think we should stop calling them just smaller. The repackaging of the interiors will yield nearly the same room as my Terrain is not packaged well with lots of wasted space. Also the key will be they will be much lighter. I expect at the least 200-300 pounds based on recent weight reductions. the Nox and Terrains are pigs. I know so as I own one. I love the car but it is over 4000 pounds and just flat heavy with an older platform. The new engineering GM is using to cut weight will make a marked difference here with no risk of losing stiffness. This will open the door to smaller but yet powerful engines and better MPG with similar performance. They are not sports cars so no need for one doing 13's in the quarter mile. The key will be the increased torque as it will add much to the bottom end and help in MPG. My 2.0 Turbo low end torque makes my HF V6 feel sluggish at take off. While the mid size model may take from the others it will keep the customers in house. As it is now if you want a model between the Acadia and Terrain now you have to go to Ford or else where. Same if you want a smaller model as you have to go to Ford , Honda or Nissan. I think the smaller Nox and Terrain will play well with the market and the mid size will give those still wanting a little larger a place to go with out having to move to the Traverse or Acadia. This is the money segment and will be moving to the future. GM has a good advantage here as what they have been making has been very popular and profitable. This should increase with options.

The Terrain and Nox refresh is just to carry it this year and to move it into fleet sales next year and nothing more. The totally new models are coming out in 2017 with an entire new take and platform for the vehicle. As for a new one 3 years ago you only need to look at sales and the sales have been great and higher each and every year since it was released. There was no urgency here. What GM did was to delay this as they had other things that needed the resources more and with sales climbing the urgency was not here. They also had time to add more features that were coming that would have missed the earlier release. GM did this with the Cruze too that also had bee selling well till just last year. They also did the short term refresh to send it to fleet sales too. The Nox and Terrain are one of the most unknown stories in the industry. If you look a their saturation numbers they have been counter to about anything out there. They started off well with the Nox and it only got better from the start. On the Terrain the styling was a bit polarizing at first but it has won over many and the sales have taken off like crazy with since 2012 and with the addition of the Denali it just has gotten still on transaction price along with added volume. While most cars peak in the first couple years the sales of these twins have only gotten stronger and stronger. Most people do not realize that these two models out sell most sedans on the market. Don't believe it just look around in a parking lot. The GMC line as whole has done well as they have been spot on with the marketing and the Denali line is pure profits. The only thing I would like to see is that they get a few specific products just for them to sell. A more off road line similar to a Hummer and jeep like vehicle would really set them apart more and only add more profit.They do need some smaller vehicles and two smaller Wrangler and Renegade competitor would be nice.

The few that do go off road in these clearance it on the first bump. Real off road people generally are in trucks and more often anymore modified new and mostly older trucks. These things are just too damn expensive to take off road and trash when new. Even most Raptors are in mall parking lots than the desert. My Off Road customers generally are 1-3 generations behind on what they off road. They are cheaper buy and if they get rolled over they just transfer the parts to another used truck. Also the new trucks you also face the issues of Airbags etc. The 70's and 80's models are still treasured for their low cost, toughness and simplicity. If I sell parts for a new SUV generally its for a bug shield, KNN intake or step bars. If it is lifted it will seldom if ever go off road.

Yes the Terrain sales are as high as ever and the new one will be here next year as a 2017. The refresh it has this year will carry it to fleet sales. I love the new front end here. It looks tough while not trying to be a semi.

dfelt The SUV's are seldom sued off road anymore and they need the MPG so the air dams are here to stay. at least till they get belly pans. That is what they did not the front of the new Camaro.

Nerd I agree it has to be right but as it is now the hood on the present truck has no issue with the grill so I expect it will be ok. Now once someone has bounced off a tree ehhh!

This nose sends the signal that was lost on the old grill that this truck is all new. It is more modern looking and matches well with the Colorado. It also give the truck a new look unlike the last one that made it look like a simple update. We have a 2015 Z71 and I like this better. Cost savings is a non factor here as the chrome on all these trucks are cheap plastic chrome not unlike what you would find in a Monogram model kit. It gets dinged up by rocks and you can not repair it unlike the painted grills. Not crazy on the LED but that is the trend so I understand. I have tired of the mini Kenworth grills on all these trucks. I hope this new deal of a new nose every two years continues as that is about how it used to be and it really makes the trucks evolve more. I have always favored the GMC for less chrome but this one really has hit me well. This truck deserved its own face as it is much more advanced than many have given it credit. Since we got the Z71 I am still impressed with the ride alone as it is stiffer and much better riding and handling than the old 09.

Value Sorry about the typo or auto correct. Ah the joys of poor juvenile humor.

Rear heated seats are the price of entry anymore in the segment. Even the lesser brands have it so GM must have it. I just hope there is some other tricks ford added value put in.

@ CP I understand this but even then they do not have the flat torque curve of my LNF. They are tuned for MPG. Now on the other hand the simple tune on my Turbo adds 55-60 HP and added MPG confirmed by GM. I have two HF V6 and they are good engines but I would take the LNF for the most fun with no tune and with a tune even more fun. The Bu I have does just fine over 3500 it pulls well and gets around 25 around town. The even mine in the top trim is not really a sport sedan so it is enough for what I use it for.

So that is a Buick? I expect this car will do well. Lets face it as old as the present one is it has done well. I too would like to see more performance or sport engineered packages added to the car to make it really a car that could compete better with an Audi. The price point of this car gives them room to do this vs. a Chevy. I just wonder what changes we will see in the American version. Will it be similar to this or much different as the Cruze is.

Cimcasa you are correct. The turbo engines have very flat and long torque curves and are less peaky than the 3.6 V6. My two HF V6 cars do little till over 3500 RPM. My Eco LNF will pull tree stumps at 2000 RPM and hold it to 5300.

Yes the base model and most others should be under 3000 pounds. That is big in this segment. Interesting rear seat heaters. Not common even in higher classes. Nice detail.

The fact is F1 is in real trouble right now and they need to make some major changes. Cost are too high and ratings are way down even in Europe. There is talk of some major changes and it may include the use of production blocks. That would draw the interest of many MFG if cost come down and real product can be promoted. Also talk of building cars that put the drive back in as a factor an not as much the wing set up. I think right now and for the near future the money $100,000,000 plus per car would be put to better use else where. The Pratt and Miller Cadillac racing has been doing a hell of a job but they get so little promotion. I got to hang out with Johnny O Connell last year at Mid Ohio and it was amazing how much of his car is production bases. It even came off the line. The sound is so close to pro stock but it runs more than a quarter mile.

Kabong this is simply a case of mismanagement. While Sergio has hit a couple home runs the over all picture and plan he has leave no room for error. To put it simply it is like he put all his chips on one number and spun the wheel. Come 2018 he either will have to increase volume to 6-7 million cars from 4.6 million. Now this is where the market watchers are dismayed. They know Jeep is going gang busters but the rest of Chrysler is not going to increase 2-3 million cars by 2018. The rest of the plan is to increase Alfa by 332,000 units by 2018 and compete with BMW? This too is not likely to happen per market watchers. The fact is unless he gets outside help to reduce cost he is going to have a difficult time meeting his goals. Now if he gets help with platforms the 6-7 million can come down and this was his desperate plea to GM. He also would like much of their technology Fiat does not have at this time. The Fiat 500 electric is not going to save them in this segment of the market. To develop new engines for the future and new platforms it will take billions more than Jeep and Ram alone can make. On top of that much of this money is going to the Euro divisions and will not go back to Chrysler as It should. The reality is if he wants to save the strongest of FCA he needs to pump the money into Chrysler not Fiat, Alfa, Maserati or Lancia. It is possible if he can save Chrysler in the future they can come back and rebuild these struggling divisions. Fiat of Europe is much like Saturn, Pontiac and Hummer. they have their fans but they are not making money and what you put in now will only weaken the stronger parts of FCA. Stew the CTSV at 4000 pounds it too heavy in my book. This is why we will see a next gen before long that will lose weight. This one will not be around as long as the Sigma. Stop the fan boy praise and take off the rose colored glasses. The fact is Sergio is going to let Chrysler die with his crazy plan to save the Euro models. His is sacrificing the strong brother to save the weak. Again do you really believe it is smart to expect Alfa to sell 400.000 cars and invest money there than build a new modern lighter Omega Challenging LX now? I also saw your 200 you praised in a list of top models. It got 5th out of 6 best sedans at Car and Driver. Not good for a car so new. Like they say better than the car it replaced and it has a nice personality too. LOL! Anyways the discounts on it are making people good deals. 199 a month lease is a bargain. Don't say that is not true as it is on my screen as I type. I can get 0% for 60 months and $500 off or $1000 off a Dart too. This thread is bringing up all the deals they are offering at Dodge. Also what do you think about the 300 being targeted at the Impala and no longer at the Lincoln, Lexus or Buick? This is what Sergio has stated. I think that is a mistake. But again my in laws got a 300 for the price of the out going Malibu. Good deal when it has not been recalled. Stew I am only attacking models as you are refusing to see the big picture and that this is not about models or the success of Chrysler. Sergio is willing to bleed your favorite company dry for his own needs at companies that have a low chance of survival. The sooner he is gone the better. Lido would have done the opposite and things would be looking much better. Lets face it FCA is not an American company anymore. It is based in England and run buy an Italian with little to no auto experience that was raised in Canada. Add to this he is an accountant. So he knows where the money is going. Someone should tell him you do not beg for business dates in public or people will get the idea you are desperate. The bottom line is this. 4000 pound cars or not Sergio is going to drag Chrysler down with his own ill conceived ideas of saving Fiat. Plain and simple. Jeep, Ram and Chrysler alone an not do the volume nor generate enough money by 2018 to meet his goals. I just hope that someone comes in and can undo some of his plans and turn things around when he retires. As the story says outside things always happen and if they do it may not leave many options.

Yes but beat Ford for a year or more then will celebrate. Find a way to go from 4.6 Million cars to Sergio's needed goal of 6-7 Million vehicles [depending on the age of what interview and goal he gave] Then we will have cause to be excited. Any car company can go up and down for a month or two. Even Chevy is out selling the F150 but to that continued for a year or two then I will get excited. Too many other factors in play to celebrate a short term deal. Again this is big picture and over all long term numbers here. While Chrysler is doing well FCA has many other parts pulling them down and the key is will Jeep and Ram be able to sustain enough profit to pay for all their other sins. Sergio has stated numbers and goals many in the business world just do not think will be done. He has missed past goals too but in those cases he did not have it all riding on the numbers. It will be interesting to see what he does if he does not meet his stated goals by 2018. He said he would stay till then. What if he falls short of the increased Alfa production. The 6-7 Million cars he needs to make a profit cooperation wise over the present 4.6 million cars. What if gas prices come in and tank truck sales? Economy? Will he find the partner he said he did not need now he says he does need and has tried to force the issue? These larger issues are what remain in question and are not easily fixed or controlled. I expect jeep and Ram to continue to grow but not at the rate needed to make his stated needed goals. If he was honest with his statements last year with the 5 stated needed goals it may be tough. This Italian is not Lido who would put America and Chrysler first.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/business/detroits-chief-instigator.html?_r=0 Try this one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/business/detroits-chief-instigator.html?_r=0 Not able to get the link to work but this is to a story in the NY Times 5-24-15 By Bill Vlasicmay in the Business Day section. The story is a good one where he interviews Sergio and others about the issues FCA has done well with and yet to face. It is a good balanced story that gives the good and bad. It touches on many of the things I have read more in depth at other places like WSJ, Forbes, Wards and other places. This gets to the real meat and potatoes of the issues here. While many of you want to argue product it gets down to the sheer numbers and what Sergio wants to achieve and how it is possible but everything has to go right. It covers the UAW issues he will face and it also touches on the NHTSA issues he has faced and will face more of. It touches on some of the merger talks and the message it has sent to many. I recommend reading this story and then googling for stories on each area this story covers as the details are much more eye opening. To me Chrysler is like Germany in WWII. They have a leader that while at times can move mountains with his methods. he also falls pray to doing some odd things that put his efforts at risk. While Germany had some of the best planes, Tanks and the best battle ships the sheer numbers killed them in the end. The Allies with the production and numbers coming from America just overwhelmed Germany and in the end Their leader become more desperate and did many things the hastened his own end. Now I am not saying Sergio is Hitler but the fact is Germany had many things good going for them. They had some of the most advanced Technology there was and the equipment they had were very goof for the most part. But the Allies had much more volume and just over whelmed Germany. Also Hitler made some risky tactical moves that came back to bite him. One Eastern Front like move by Sergio it could spell doom or even outside issues like Spain or Italy falling into another recession could really damage his plans. My point here is you can have the most advanced and best army in the world and the numbers can kill you. The same applies to the auto industry today. You can have the best cars in the world but if you do not have the numbers you will fail. When I see issue ahead for FCA this story is where most of my fears are rooted. But again do your homework and read up on the several topics this story touches on as there is much more to this than what is just here. This is kind of the readers digest version of the situation. 4000 pound cars are the least of the issues here as there are much more to this than just simple product or lack there of. Sergio is a man that needs to sell a lot of cars in a short time and while possible the odds are stacked against him unless some one comes in to save him. In the end Chrysler fails not because of Chrysler but because of Sergio's great gamble if he fails.

Stew 1 Rams generally have been selling at lower prices and make less money per unit sold. That is nothing new. I know several new Ram owners and they are happy and the reason they move to Ram was a cheaper price as most trucks today are too damn expensive. They all came from Ford. 2 I you are fine with 4100-4300 pound cars more power to ya. 3 10K a month is not great in a segment where volume is king. Like I said money left on the table. If they had done the car right they would realize much more profit. It is not that they are not making money but they are not making more like they could be. It is like being in the desert you can keep drinking water but you can still dehydrate. It is a tough market and settling for 4-5 place does not work anymore. If you do you go begging for partners and don't find a date because you have so little to offer. 4 Never said it was a bad brand just Saying Sergio is using Chrysler as his Whore to pay for his issues with Fiat. If given the choice he would kill Chrysler before Fiat. Get use to it. He already has down graded the 300 to Impala competitor from here on out. Not even challenging the Lincoln anymore. Chrysler is the new Dodge with out performance. 5 Old GM was F'd up royally and you saw were that went in 08. Many of us though things were not all that bad but looking back it was much worse for a lot longer than we ever realized. I see similar things going on at Chrysler now. While it may not look dire now the slow trend down can go un noticed by the enthusiast very easy. I have been there done that. I assume you meant 6? Well I am glad you feel good about all that. On the out side looking in I am not impressed and will believe it when I see it. I hope you are right and I am wrong. At least two people think Alfa can compete with BMW and sell 332,000 more units in just 2 more years. That would be tough just with Chevy or Ford let alone a brand that never really had much traction in the states or outside of Europe for years. They should be more concerned about making a profit vs. beating BMW. In that segment it's more important about how much profit vs. volume. Also Sergio needs to increase sales from 4.6 to 6-7 million globally. That was his numbers not mine. He stated such last year as to what it would take to break even. Though he also said he needed no partners then too. FYI I just saw my first load of Renegades on a truck today. They must have finally got the issues worked out that delayed them. It has the Honda Element vibe. It may not steal many Wrangler or Cherokee buyers but it may take some Scion and Element buyers. These little square boxes always do well with 60 year olds. That is not a slam just who has been buying these cars. The auto makers targeted the youth market and were shocked the buyers were much older and help make them successful. Again good luck and I hope you are right. I do not want to see Chrysler lost and left to die. We have lost too much already. I felt the loss of Plymouth as much as my beloved Pontiac. But I understand why. This is a time I would gladly be wrong. America has lost too much auto market already.

The bottom line is 4000 pounds is too much weight now and will be way too much with the way the market is going. 3800 is about where they all should be and in a few years 3400 is going to have to become the norm if you plan to do any volume. 4100-4200-4300 is to much weight even if it were a GM car. The new HP war is going to be mass and they all will start cutting weight just as GM has with the Cruze, Malibu and Camaro. This is only the start. Not only for more MPG but they will also enjoy the other things that come with less mass such as better handling, better braking and more acceleration. Less mass dose more for a car than what ever HP you throw at it will do. HP only increases performance in one dimension. Less mass includes that and more. Lets face the LX handles well but the fat lady has its limits. As for the pissing match as I have already stated time will prove who is right here. You nor I can prove anything at this point. The real truth is My companies leader is not desperately looking for help to build new models even by force. I think FCM could be turned around but you need to 86 the guy in the sweater. He will bleed Chrysler dry to save his home brand. His priorities are ass backwards to your interest. What good you are getting are only for his own needs. If he had any interest in Chrysler he would be investing in a better Dart, Hybrids and more advanced technologies like the others. Right now he has given you a new engine that was done before he got there, Delayed models and improved Jeep lines that the profits are mostly going to Europe. If he were at GM doing the same thing I would be pissed off. Again lets just see where this goes. I will be glad to be wrong but I just don't see it changing under the present leader.

Stew keep that dream alive. I understand a lot more than you give me credit for. Time is on my side. Again you never answer any questions. Do you think Sergio will sell 400,000 Alfa's by 2018? Yes or No. This is key to his plan and I am looking for a simple answer. FYI the Camaro tooling and platform were paid for years ago. The like the LX. The new one will be spread over many models as well as the tooling for the engine is spread out as many of the parts are interchangeable with various versions. The trucks along cover the engine cost. Camaro sales are only down now as we have a sixth gen out soon. As for the Charger it never came close to Mustang or Camaro numbers when they are not winding down production. Dodge is lucky to sell over 50K units while the Mustang and Camaro are closer to 100,000 units.