hyperv6

I would hurt VW long term.... imagine if 2.8 million Germans could suddenly not drive their cars for 3 to 6 months while VW issues a fix.... do you think they would buy another? Resale value would be destroyed. This is the German government forcing VW's hand... and it is an effective threat I think. I really do not believe they need to apply much more pressure. They know they are globally in trouble PR wise and they are already working on a fix. They have already forced people out and I suspect more will fall. It will take some time to make the parts. I am sure the agencies of many countries will require them to recertify the cars and changes made. And then they have to get the parts made and then the customers to the dealers. There is no fast track to this and you can apply all the pressure in the world but it will take 2 years if it goes fast to fix a majority. Then they will have to eat the cost of parts, labor, fines, recertification, legal fees and many other things. This will be very expensive in the end. I bet it tops 25-35 billion Dollars in the end minimum. It will for sure hurt VW either way. But if the government stops me from driving my car for no real logical reason till a fix is approved that is a sure way not to be reelected. Lets face it even with the failing readings these engines are cleaner than the diesels of the last 100 years. People are not falling over in the streets and what the media fails to report is many of the 11,000 that are claimed to be victims already smoked themselves into respiratory failure before they were affected by the fumes. You would have to almost live in a truck stop with running trucks for years to do that much damage. Lets face it the people most exposed to Diesel fumes are Farmers with a stack in the face as well heavy equipment workers. You do not see them dropping like flies. This EPA stuff is as much agenda as it is to clean the environment. It is brought to you buy the same people who are promoting the carbon exchange. There is big major profits in environmentalism.

The lack of a base truck may be due to pricing. This is not a cheap engine anymore due to government regs. I suspect they are holding back on engine price some and adding options to spread out the areas to recoup the profits. I would hate to see how much this thing would cost with no options vs. the gas model. I bet there would be a big gulf in price. Our government has taken a Diesel and made it so difficult to price any more with regulations that it has almost priced the engine out of existence. Even Europe with their tight laws are easier but I suspect the Green Party will make a move to work to kill these engines. It really is a shame. I just love how the news people are going around saying VW may have killed 11,000 people? They leave out many who are effected are often people who smoked themselves into repertory issues too. Lets face it we are not finding bodies in the street and the fact is even with the failing reading the VW engine is cleaner than any Diesel in the last 100 years. To really get ill from these engines you generally have to have a contributing illness or you live upstairs over a truck stop. We are not talking black lung here. If anyone was to die from lung/Diesel issues it would be heavy equipment operators who sit behind a stack, Farmers and or truck drivers. One really needs to keep this in perspective as the media like in other cases fails to report all the info. 11K deaths garners more attention than if you really break it down.

It is really foolish to ban the cars from the roads. It would penalize the owners more then VW. It also would wreck havoc on the economy if people could not use their cars. Lets face it while the exhaust is dirtier than it should be it is far from what we have had from millions of cars for nearly a century. The sun will not vanish and there will not be bodies in the streets if they continue to drive them till a retrofit is introduced. I figure that this will take a computer flash and a retrofit of a Urea tank. To do this it will take months to make the parts and get the certified. Then to make them in numbers to fit the cars and the time to install them could be up to 2 years easy. Just look at the GM deal on the ignition as it tool about 2 years to get to this point and there are still many who have not had the repair done. This is a deal where the German government and VW need to sit down and work out a plan that is realistic and acceptable. They too have politicians from the Green party that will grand stand this as we did on the GM ignition here. While some politicians may want to grand stand they much remember if they do too much here by banning cars they may lose 2.8 million Votes too. Anyone with common sense would understand this but we are dealing with government officials.

Well the one thing we have going here is we have two kinds of Diesel buyers in this country. We have the Euro Diesel buyers and we have truck buyers. I really do not expect this to hurt Chevy. the only thing I think they need to watch is will truck buyers buy a 4 cylinder diesel as most of them want the larger trucks with V8 diesel engines. This is untested waters here as so few trucks with small diesels have been offered. In the past the small GM engines failed but they were weak and happened around the time the Olds Diesls were failing. It will be interesting to see just how well they sell on their own merits as this is a tough country to market a Diesel unless you are German. Well until now.

The true equal to the F-35 is the B1. It was over sold and under developed. The B1 was the safest place to be in the first Gulf War as they were not permitted to leave South Dakota. They billions invested on electronic counter measurers fix a plane that should not have been fixed. Culprit for the F-35 was Robert Gates as he pushed the Bush and then the Obama people away from the F-22 and to the F-35. There were such great political pressures to sell this plane globally vs. the F-22 in country. Also the price drove many to change their minds. Today they are finding that they should have stayed with the F-22 as the price would have comedown with only a few more units and it was a much better plane. While it may not have had a vertical take off it was one plane that could take the place of 4 F-35 in the sky. The real joke is China copies the F-35 and now has a poorer version. It look and flies like a F35 but has little of the electronics in it. They will dump more billions in the F-35 to fix it and there are some moving to try to restart the F-22 line again. Time will tell. What is sad as the F-35 would have never come from Lockheed under Kelly Johnson.

Funny how Sergio is doing all the things anti to saving FCA. While he should be investing in his best bet for high volume he invest in Alfa and a two seat car for Fiat? Not the way to increase volume and use up excess production facilities that are way under volume.

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill No that is not directed at Greece it was directed at your socialist rants. As for VW they will survive. If you're going through hell, keep going. Winston Churchill I have been reading a lot of Churchill of late. And one last quote. An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. Winston Churchill I am done with this. You can make what ever case you want the but the reality of the truth is incontrovertible. Finns, Swedes, Norwegians and to some degree Canadians are such small groups you can get away with it. As for larger groups like Russia, China, N Korea how are those working out for ya? Ever try to get on the internet in China?

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill You can spin socialism anyway you like but in the end the truth will be your undoing. Sorry but Greece voted in their own problems and the devil has finally caught up to them. You can blame anyone you want but in the end when you let people vote the treasury you will be doomed to fail. The fact is corporations have done much more good than bad. We all have generally progress from sitting in a hut somewhere to living in good homes. Well clothed and have luxuries our forefathers could never have considered. This hate the rich and Corporations foolish. So many of them are good people and many have made their way from nothing. We should study them and learn what they did to make their lives successful honestly vs. sitting around bitching because someone did something wrong. The fact is at VW only a couple people screwed up and they should be dealt with. But there are many honest hardworking people at VW that do a good job and with their wages help pay to let others like Greek restaurant owners who also make a good living thrive. As for past wars and atrocities. Get over it. Remember what happened to not repeat it and forgive and move on. Dwelling on the sins of the past do nothing for all of us today. We share this planet and we are closer today then ever. This is a fact that can not be undone. If not we will face even worse atrocities. As I fear now Europe is on the verge of some major issues. I see tough economic times. I see Religious and racial issues with the influx of Middle Easterners. This will all lead to major issue in the future. Again this will all be started by only a few of many people here.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

PS...I more peeved at this world wide corporate culture society that lets corporate greed rule us than the actual VW emissions scandal...this corrupt corporate culture needs to stop world wide... You are thinking way too deep here. Nazi's and cooperate greed? The truth is we each if put in the right place with the right temptation or pressure have the ability to do something of this nature or even something more sinister. It is in the nature of everyone born. When it all comes down do you have the strength and caricature to choose wisely? Most people don't because they are worried about themselves or for the wrong reasons. While this was a dishonest choice of a company I can show you people on the environmental side that have done things as bad or worse because they deemed it a worthy move like burning new building projects and God only knows how many Hummers were burned. Sorry but that is not any better either. I am tired of people pointing the finger at Cooperate Greed. It is all of us. No matter if you believe in God or not we have taken right and wrong from our society and people do as they will with no shame or moral compass anymore.

In China you have the largest and up till recently the fastest growing market in the world and if you are a part of it you survive and if you were not a part of it you risk being left behinds. It made Western companies sell their soul or at least a part of it. On the other hand China was not dealt a full hand as many things and technologies were not shared with them at least on GM's part. I would change the term White people to GM managment. GM has a very diverse staff anymore and that would be better reflective of it.

Well this is a very complex issue. In Some ways you want to hate them, Some ways you almost have to smile at how they did it and then you have to wonder that how many more things are automakers getting desperate about. The truth is the government wants to legislate fossil fuel cars out but we are still not to the point with electrics that you could live a life not planed around charging cycles. No not even the Tesla before some Musk zealot chines in. To take a chance like this VW has to be very pressed here. That is not unexcused but just an observation. In one way I have to almost smile as this was nearly a Smokey Yunick like trick. I loved Smokey and how he fought the system but you still have to pay the price when caught. As for the 11,000 deaths. I can see it contributing to some deaths of people with already or weakened respiratory but to say that it has killed people directly you would almost have to live above a Diesel parking deck with a vent to your apartment. Few people are exposed to the kind of environment that would completely kill them here. As long as we let people put things in their mouth that do directly lead to death then how do we prosecute this? Now this is the area I am not fond of here. VW took money from the EPA for Clean Air from these cars to a tune of $51 Million. They also got $21 million in cash for clunker trades for these cars. To be that was taking money from the government under falsification. That is what really sends people to jail. The rest is a fine but steal money from the government. That is how they got Capone. I have seen car companies do much worse than this but little is said or it was on a much smaller scale. Hell The original Ford Mustang used a gas tank for a trunk floor. How many died from that and you can't say that was a good idea? Today there are retro fit takes for collectors who are concerned with this. Heck Even VW has had worse Idea's like "Hey lets build a car for Hitler". That while in a long term panned out was not a thing PR departments like to hold up. They really like to push the Porsche connection but not Adolph so much. At first I though this would just be a big fine, some firing's and a bunch of civil suits that net lawyers a lot of money and customers a discounted oil change. But with the way more nad more keep popping up I suspect this could really get ugly with the government money being taken under false pretenses. As for all the people on the web crying for new engines and buy backs these reports tend to bring out the stupid in people. I expect that the cars will get a computer flash that will put it in test mode all the time. Odds are based on what I heard the MPG may slip a little and the Torque my drop a little I do not expect much more than that. VW will really not know the damage till they begin to handle this. If they come clean and take care of the cars they will pass through this a little weathered but fine. They have a solid fan base that will stick with them. The one thing I do like is I have not heard one GM ignition story since. It appears the Media has moved on. Now this is what I do not like. The media goes after every Automaker who appears at the top. While it is fair to report honest stories where they have failed too often I find that not all the facts are presented. I have pondered this here too. At this point I trust VW at what they said they have done more so than the Media. I know in the GM deal so much of the details of the crashes were left out and it swayed public opinion much more than it should as so many people that do not watch the market never new all the facts. I just wish the EPA, the President and the automakers would work all together much better to bring better results and realistic expectations. Right now we have an administration that wants to executive order out so many things that have yet to find a replacement for. I find it funny that they want more MPG but yet make it even more difficult to sell a Diesel. Yet they turn around and have buses here running with 5 people on them daily all over town putting out more emissions than how many more cars? It is time they work a trust and reasoning together that will advance thing much better. Right now you have a jet flying limo riding politicians making rules on things they have no clue about just for vote not the common good. I ponder if they had taken the time to build a trusting working relationship would VW had done what they done. A starving man will risk arrest to steal a loaf of bread. I will not say he should have stolen it but I can understand why he may have. You need to step back and take this one all in. I do worry this will only make it more difficult for GM to sell a Diesel outside trucks in America. GM already was not trusted with car Diesels and now this has damaged the trust of Diesels in general. Also it will only get more difficult to build these.

I would have to restudy this topic I thought at one time any automaker in China is required to partner with a Chinese MFG. Also on top of that they were only able to own up to 49% of that venture between the two countries. Generally one or two Chinese MFG are in the mix. I do know that any products built there and imported there are required to share the intellectual properties with the Chinese government. This was explained in a story what GM was not sending the Volt to China. Lets face it China steals everything as it is and in this case dangles a large market carrot in front of a MFG's that hate to make the deals but can not afford not to. China in doing this the story I recall explained was to help fast track their automakers to the global market. There has been a big issue that has not helped them and it is funny. The people in China hate Chinese cars and often for good reason. Not only are they usually not a good car but they also hold little status in China. People in China love Western product and have relegated the Chinese cars to no more than 15th on the sales list as of when the story was written. Most people there want western models not even so much Japanize or Korean. In fact in many areas they hate anything from Japan. The mass killing are still stinging to some regions. I did not read the other story and while based on your comments it sounds like a nut there is truth to part owner ship in any western Chinese venture in the auto industry. It is just another example of why we should be working harder to defend us from China and not have them for dinner at the White House. Anyone see their new fighter. It looks like a slightly larger F35. Luckily they got the styling but are still missing much of the electronics that gives our plane much more advance ability. While we held a 50 year lead it has been cut per some to a 20 year lead in technology.

Yes the Verano was pegged as a more upscale car below Cadillac and above Chevy. The convertible is about what you would expect for a car this size. The car is almost the size f what a Regal coupe would have been. The main deal is that this was an Opel that could easily and at a lower cost could be plugged in at a price where they could make a profit at lower volume. The added volume may also help Opel too. This car is in it's last years and will be replace I expect in 2-3 years. Same for the Regal so we are not going to see total brand new products till they replace the Verano and Regal first. Note when you look at most Verano's they have mostly loaded interiors and leather. Many have the larger engines and upgraded trims. Sales were ok till the Encore came out and I think it had more impact on their sales than anything.

seems a bit expensive to me. I think at that price 250/250 power would be nice. If Buick just wants to 'round out the showroom' then why haven't we gotten the Astra coupe plus OPX, the Adam, and the Astra hatch and wagon?Simple for several reasons.One GM's Major investments were going into Chevy first and then Cadillac. Not to mention other global projects. No not even GM can do it all at once.Second most of the Opel's were on older platforms and bringing in all these other cars just were not needed at this time. Buick is making money with the SUV/CUV and the two cars for now also supported with China. Add to this most of the dealers themselves are also a GMC dealer or a combination of Chevy, Cadillac.Third the wagon at this point is a nice add on but no where close to a foundation model neither were a Coupe Or the OPC. You do understand how much the Euro version of the OPC cars cost there. They are much more than what we have seen in the GS here. You think you can afford the Convertible.Fourth GM was in the process of deciding what to do with Opel's post Chevys pull out and with the additional load of working with Holden/Opel/Buick. Lets face it that not too long ago Opel's future had been in question with some at GM and nothing was for sure. Had Chevy taken off they may have really been at risk.Finally this is not all that expensive in the market anymore, In fact it is below the average market selling price. Even the average used car is now pushing $18K per an article I read the other day. They are too expensive for all of us but that is the price you will pay. If you want cheaper buy a Chevy or wait till it is used those will always be options. You could get a Turbo Camaro Convertible for a similar price I will wager.To me this car is a better G6 Convertible with no hard top. It will drive better and has better features but it is an old car. With each new platform we will get all new Opel's, Holden's and Buicks over the next 5 years and it will change the face of the company as GM has with Chevy and Cadillac.Like I say this is big picture and today with the global market and the cost of development you have to space things out till the timing is right for several divisions and for the money to be available to work on each program. While it may have been nice to do a limited run of the OPC. Wagon, and Coupe their lives would have been short and volumes low. That money would be better spent to finish the next Lacrosse, Regal and Avinir.To be honest this car is not really needed but it will help the image some and offer something GM really lacks in the states right not a convertible. If we are to believe what the word is there are two SUV's coming and one is mid sized. But with GMC you have to so this right as why would you need a Terrain and the Buick version in the same dealer? You have to make the different in some way as they generally occupy the same space. I have wondered if the Buick we have seen will be a short wheel base like the coming Nox and the GMC may share a long wheel base with the Cadillac we just saw released. Also this is not about money it is about having the platform. GM has just finished the new platform these models ride on and it is just going into production with staggered starts fro each model at several plants. As for a little larger SUV there is another one of these but we have yet to see it as it is still being worked on and also we have a new Enclave coming. This all falls into place it you take the timing of the models and the associated platforms. There are billions of dollars being spent and a large amount of GM staff assigned to this so it takes time and money. They also are coming off several Chevy programs that are just being launched as well the funding from these programs being moved to the next project.

I really wonder if GM will push their Diesels. VW the most trusted has lost the trust and GM already had a tough road to follow as it was now it has just become more difficult. I think they delay it here in the states and push it overseas to prove its worth before they bring it back here. The real problem here for VW is not only did they cheat but the fact they took $51 million in green energy kick backs. I can see the government not just fining them but really going after the taking of money in a scam. People who hold office are made to look more foolish then they all ready do and they do not take kindly to companies that will hurt their reps. If they can find who approved this there could be real criminal charges on fraud against the US Government made here. To be honest I just had to grin when I heard what they did. It was almost like a Smokey Yunick trick. I have to admire what they did in a way. A company should not break the law but what they did is far from the worst thing an Automaker or company has done. Hell this is the company that also said hey lets make Hitler a car too. That is one area the PR department is careful about.

Not all 20" tires are this much. Also these will not be high speed rated tires as this is where the cost comes in. You do understand that speed rated tires use more expensive materials and also have to be perfect in Q-A. The margin of defect is very low on them as they have to be for liability. This leads to more tires being rejected and added cost. Yes companies like Michelin and Goodyear X Ray each speed rated tire to check the construction for defects. Tires are still a hand made product and while consistency has improved it can still vary some. But with that said I just paid $90 for 18" inch Eagles not long ago and $175 for 19" triple tread Goodyear Assurance tires not long ago. Making good use of sales and rebates can make these a lot cheaper. The days of the $50 tires are long over. Add things like Carbon fiber an Kevlar to a Z rated compound tire and then your prices go up fast. This is why there are 72 different kinds of Pilots and Eagles offered. You match them to the need of the car. A Buick like this will not need the same kind of 20" a Z06 will require.

seems a bit expensive to me. I think at that price 250/250 power would be nice. If Buick just wants to 'round out the showroom' then why haven't we gotten the Astra coupe plus OPX, the Adam, and the Astra hatch and wagon? Simple for several reasons. One GM's Major investments were going into Chevy first and then Cadillac. Not to mention other global projects. No not even GM can do it all at once. Second most of the Opel's were on older platforms and bringing in all these other cars just were not needed at this time. Buick is making money with the SUV/CUV and the two cars for now also supported with China. Add to this most of the dealers themselves are also a GMC dealer or a combination of Chevy, Cadillac. Third the wagon at this point is a nice add on but no where close to a foundation model neither were a Coupe Or the OPC. You do understand how much the Euro version of the OPC cars cost there. They are much more than what we have seen in the GS here. You think you can afford the Convertible. Fourth GM was in the process of deciding what to do with Opel's post Chevys pull out and with the additional load of working with Holden/Opel/Buick. Lets face it that not too long ago Opel's future had been in question with some at GM and nothing was for sure. Had Chevy taken off they may have really been at risk. Finally this is not all that expensive in the market anymore, In fact it is below the average market selling price. Even the average used car is now pushing $18K per an article I read the other day. They are too expensive for all of us but that is the price you will pay. If you want cheaper buy a Chevy or wait till it is used those will always be options. You could get a Turbo Camaro Convertible for a similar price I will wager. To me this car is a better G6 Convertible with no hard top. It will drive better and has better features but it is an old car. With each new platform we will get all new Opel's, Holden's and Buicks over the next 5 years and it will change the face of the company as GM has with Chevy and Cadillac. Like I say this is big picture and today with the global market and the cost of development you have to space things out till the timing is right for several divisions and for the money to be available to work on each program. While it may have been nice to do a limited run of the OPC. Wagon, and Coupe their lives would have been short and volumes low. That money would be better spent to finish the next Lacrosse, Regal and Avinir. To be honest this car is not really needed but it will help the image some and offer something GM really lacks in the states right not a convertible.

This is for women in their 40's and 50's that just want that drop top feel. This is going to be a low volume car and just help fill the dealer showrooms till the rest of the new products are out. The first all new Buick is going to be the Lacrosse. I agree this is not a new car nor is it on a new platform. Also it is not there to challenge a BMW. and all tires are expensive the 20" are no different but you can shop around and still find them reasonable compared to the other sizes. These will not be major performance tires so that will control the cost. Ride will be fine as it was designed for them and also is not a sports cars. Just have to use a little common sense when looking at this car. I expect it will see 3 years and be replaced with a new car on a new platform.

I like smaller. I think it is a good start but I still need to see it in context to the rest of the car to give a fair assessment.

Well the truth be told FWD is here mostly for weight. The original intent was to make a car with a larger interior in a smaller package and cut the driveline into a smaller package with no drive shaft and no rear end. Then they sold it to the public as flat floors and the Idea of better traction which anyone who has a basic working knowledge of physics understands for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. If you don't know what that mean it means the weight they claim that is on the front wheels transfers to the rear and unloads the front end. Hence top fuel dragster are RWD. As for engines it really matters little what was under the hood. With the 60 degree it made it easier to change plugs on a V6 and the I 4 is often used as it saves space and cuts down on the nose over hang in smaller cars. As for traction it is controlled I many ways today. Some electronics and also geometry along with a good does of things like Hyper struts etc. For the most part it is a non issue as over 400 HP can be well controlled today. The Ford deal is to show case where they are going. They have one car with a V8 outside the trucks. That is one of the biggest clues from a company that made their name with the Flat Head. They are not alone. How much smaller does the percentages of V8 cars offered and none of them cheap till you understand they will be very limited in market scope. The Corvette can get over 30 MPG if you just want to drive it done the highway on cruise control. In real world driving it is not getting 30 MPG and not even 20 MPG in the hands of someone who drives it like a Corvette should be driven. Moving forward that is not even going to be enough as GM really does not want to impose the gas guzzler tax on the car unless it is a low volume model like a ZR1. Again look 10-15 years ahead as today is when you plan for it not then. If you wait till 2025 it will be too late. I really expect the Vette and other performance cars to loose more weight and not add a lot of power for performance gains. This is a win win as MPG goes up, Performance goes up not only on 0-60 but also 60-0 and handling. You get over 700 HP few cars can make use of all the power out side a Z06 or some exotic car.

Well as of now the tricks on engines with less cylinders are more difficult like Drew has pointed out. The same will happen when the V8 drops to 2 cylinders. BMW as of now does not drop cylinders because of the inline engine. I think you may see a I2 engine before they cut too many cylinders. We already have I3's now. The whole key to the small engine vs the large engine is this. This is the deal for the future. The positive pressure engines will thrive. Even the Z06 engine benefit by this to a point. They do have to use power to run the supercharge which is a lttle more than a turbo loses in exhaust flow. The key is be it a 6.0 or 2.0 you are putting more air in and with just a little more fuel create more power. At the lower end while driving easy the turbo just sits there and spins not hurting a thing. When called upon it delivers the fuel. It also can avoid much of the EPA testing issues with the way the test are run for MPG. Where we see the greatest change will be more systems like the new Malibu that has part Volt and part ICE Malibu. This will be an option now but as prices drop it will be found on most cars. Sale of engine stop will be greater too. They do not want to say it but theses system will be hard to avoid if you do not like them. The last hold outs will the Camaro and Corvette.

Thank you Dave this is the most intelligent post in this thread.

And yet who would have ever considered as little as 25 year ago 4 cylinder engines would hold 85% of the market after coming off an era that the V8 held the vast majority of for several decades? I never said there would never be one. Note how I stated they will be offered in less vehicles and they will be much more expensive. You can even see that is how things are working out today. Give it 10 years and more regulations and few people will be able to afford one. At some point I also expect the Corvette to receive an second engine option with less than 8 cylinders. It won't be right away but the time is coming. I do not say this with happiness but the hand writing is on the wall. When Ford is going to sell a TTV6 car for $400,000 and not even offer a V8 is very telling of where this is going. So far on the Hemi front no one from Chrysler has posted a denial to the loss of the Hemi. I would think if it were false they would have said they had plans for the future and that was not one. Sergio is out of so much money only if they merge with someone willing to save the Hemi may be the only hope. Sergio can not afford to save it himself as of now.