hyperv6

Recalculate!! Recalculate!!!!!!!!

This deal I fear is not a matter of if but when one of these cars F up. How will the system and companies deal with it once it does? We have auto pilots and all sorts of pilot assist modes but yet planes still crash. We have safety's on guns yet people still shoot themselves. We have some of the most advanced GPS but yet it still recalculated to a empty field. We have guided missiles yet they still miss their targets at times. Like the old joke of the guy who bought the camper that had cruise control and set it then walked to the back of the RV before it crashed. [Not sure it really happened but I have seen worse mistakes] I suspect that there will be issues and this whole deal can really change the whole program. Like flying cars a Idea that just has too many variables and then you mix in human and mechanical or electrical error. Hell I had a battery go bad in one car driving it. The car started to shut down systems. like the lights, Radio and even the Speedometer stopped working. The car did keep running but that was about it. Lights flashing and bells dinging we made it home even though it sounded like a 777 going down. As of now I have a Collision system in my GMC that is worthless with so many false signals. The lane control works if you are on wide road but back roads it goes off all the time when the road is narrow, The collision alert goes off with false signals with curves and road side objects. It can scare the hell out of you as the ABS presets and the alarm and lights go off when nothing is around. I know these are advanced system but I just expect things will not be as smooth as the automakers think. Even the self parking misses now and then as it is now.

Lets hope the new GM will not give them anything to go back to work. Their deals in the past built up a legacy they could not afford.

Drew it all comes down to development money. Honda just does not have the ability to do all the do on their own anymore and they are in need of a dance partner that can work with them but not expect to merge with them. GM is the perfect partner in that they are all about saving money but yet making better systems for cars. They really do not want to merge with Honda but they could make a good working relationship happen. I read a while back the major players that could do it all yet were Toyota, GM, Ford, Benz, VW. Just about everyone else needs to find a partner. Even these companies are willing to work with others to save cost as new systems like transmission, engines and platforms are so expensive today. Also the hybrid and EV technology has little profit but needs to continue to develop. The large companies can save a lot on this and help some of the smaller companies. But companies like Honda, Hyundai, BMW and others while strong independent companies they still will need help in the future working with others while remaining strong enough to remain independent. Other players like FCA, Mitsubishi, Mazda and others are prime for take over but right now most companies are putting the money back into themselves now and are not wanting to expand. Mazda is on the line between take over material or remaining independent. They have gained strength in my eyes and have move closer to do like Honda and remain independent but working with another partner. Just not sure who at this point. Ford would be natural but I am not sure Ford wants them again. Thing ended on a sour note there. Honda and GM have much in common and have respect for each other. I could see this deal growing into the future. What was clear to me after driving the Pilot and RLX was that Honda Motor Company takes the "Motor" part of their name most seriously, but then gives up after that. That may be where Honda can work a partnership..... get someone else to chip in for development costs in the powertrain and then Honda can put more development into the interiors. Honda has always built to their own drummer. They really have had many quirky things over the years and some really down right cheap things. Their trucks interior was really at best was Colorado level trim with the rubber floor. But that is kind of what they do best is odd and different. They are the less odd Saab of Japan. Either way the odd stuff should not be an issue for GM as those parts will still be their deal. Most of the things shared will be technology and inter systems in the vehicles.

What GM needs is sharing of cost just as Honda. This may be some technology sharing in Hydrogen but if they choose to do a transmission or other sub system together they will share the cost. For the most part the Ford/GM deal on transmissions was mostly GM doing the work and Ford paying their share and adding only their own tuning and bits they needed. Much like the BMW/GM transmission deal. GM got pretty much a free transmission for their own use with letting BMW use it for 2 years before Cadillac and Chevy. I expect they will share in other areas some things but for the most part it will mostly comedown to cost savings for both on things the average buyer will never know was worked on by either company.

Keep in mind this would be much like the Ford deal on the transmissions where most of the shared technology would remain buried in the vehicles to the point few will know or notice. It is more about sharing cost and remaining independent.

Drew it all comes down to development money. Honda just does not have the ability to do all the do on their own anymore and they are in need of a dance partner that can work with them but not expect to merge with them. GM is the perfect partner in that they are all about saving money but yet making better systems for cars. They really do not want to merge with Honda but they could make a good working relationship happen. I read a while back the major players that could do it all yet were Toyota, GM, Ford, Benz, VW. Just about everyone else needs to find a partner. Even these companies are willing to work with others to save cost as new systems like transmission, engines and platforms are so expensive today. Also the hybrid and EV technology has little profit but needs to continue to develop. The large companies can save a lot on this and help some of the smaller companies. But companies like Honda, Hyundai, BMW and others while strong independent companies they still will need help in the future working with others while remaining strong enough to remain independent. Other players like FCA, Mitsubishi, Mazda and others are prime for take over but right now most companies are putting the money back into themselves now and are not wanting to expand. Mazda is on the line between take over material or remaining independent. They have gained strength in my eyes and have move closer to do like Honda and remain independent but working with another partner. Just not sure who at this point. Ford would be natural but I am not sure Ford wants them again. Thing ended on a sour note there. Honda and GM have much in common and have respect for each other. I could see this deal growing into the future.

Again GM was more at work getting a New ATS and CTS out on an Alpha first as few companies including GM can do it all at one time. They are doing it as fast as they can but you are not going to get it all at one time. We really need to get you a can of reality to play with.

Why do we have to wait for craftsmanship and quality? The ATS and CTS promised to be as well built as the Germans and Cadillac said they would out perform the Germans. That didn't happen, the sales reflect it. I don't think the Cadillacs are overpriced, as I have said many times they are still priced below the Germans (and Lexus) but they aren't getting the sales. So something must be wrong. Personally, I think they could price the CTS-V at $49,995 and the E-class will outsell it 3-1. Horsepower per dollar isn't why Cadillac loses the battle, there are many reasons beyond that. On the CTS I think the engine comparisons are not as bad as with the ATS. The step up from the turbo 4 on all the German small cars and the Jaguar XE is a supercharged or Turbo Six, all those cars put out 320+ lb-ft of low end torque. That is where the 3.6 V6 is out gunned. The CTS has the V-sport which is good power for the money, but I think also rwd only. At some point Cadillac has to break the brand image problem. That needs done on powertrain, interior, build quality, warranty, dealer service, styling, number of model lines, halo cars, marketing, etc. It is multi-front battle they have to fight. A good example is Car and Driver just tested the Lincoln MKX, which was $63,000, and regardless of how good the product might be, why would anyone buy that over a Mercedes or BMW? Cadillac has the same problem, if you have $65,000 to spend, why not buy the German car, rather than a Cadillac and have to justify to people why you did it. Ah maybe you have not noticed but Cadillac has changed management how many times since the start of the Alpha program. These cars were build to an older GM standard that while is much better than what we had it is still not what the present management wants. Note too that the present staff has been there just over a year and has yet to present one of their own products since it can take 2-3 years for a refresh and 5 years for a new vehicle. Now do you understand why we have not seen where this is all going yet now? Much work is planned and many of the concerns you state are going to be addressed. It was just a couple years ago GM was fighting Mark on using better Door Handles on the CT6. He lost from some accounts. Today GM finally has gone all in and let Cadillac again be Cadillac and not just some gussied up Chevy. The money is here but it still takes time to bring this to fruition. Cadillac is not over priced. It is a good price for what you get. To get more money they will have to add more to the cars yet in quality and all other areas. They will earn that but they have to get the product out. As for now the brand is a lower volume brand that makes a lot of profit even at the price they are at. This will continue into the future. Part of the exclusive image is to keep volumes down. You do not want a car just anyone can buy or own as this would make it nothing more than a fancy Chevy. Note you do not see Bentleys at Walmart or trailer parks do you? I really think some here really do not understand how far Cadillac will attempt to go here. This is not just going to be the same small incremental improvements we have had. This one is full commitment and it will really be different this time. Things have happened behind the scenes at GM that 10 years ago no one would have ever imagined. Cadillac being given $12B for changed in the next 5 years? Cadillac going to NY to get away from meddlers in Detroit that would fight many of the needed changes. Engines that are expected to be made and will be true Cadillac design and build not just corporate GM engines. As Johann said in the Dec Motor Trend interview Substance and Craftsmanship will be key just as it was in the 30's. I think it was really reveling how he said a good Halo car for them would be a 4 door convertible. That was something great from their past and something no one else is doing today. That would be a really gutsy call.

Cadillac right now is like balancing a See Saw. It is in transition and much of what we have now will be upgraded or replaced as well as higher prices with the higher craftsmanship and quality. Until then the engines may just be a little less than you like but then the price is also not over what it could be either. This is a you pay for what you get. As we get even better cars the price will reflect it and they will get it from the customers if the cars are right. Until then they will balance things out and work their way up. As for arguing over the present engine lets let them finish what they are starting as you may be arguing over a engine that may not even be here in a few years.

Dave that is what Johann states in his interview in the coming Dec Motor Trend. He states that Cadillac needs to be Cadillac and not chase the others. He said that Cadillac used to be represented in substance, technology and craftsmanship etc. and that is what they need to get back to. I have spoken to the three new ATS owners and all are under 50 and love their new cars so far. One was an ex full size truck owner and feels he made an good choice.

That I do agree with you on. They have CUVs on the way but it should have happened at least five years ago. And where was all the money 5 years ago? Going into trucks and other models that had greater impacts on the profit margins and volume. You have to consider all the facts not just the web site CEO wantabe ones. Big picture that is where you have to look and it all adds up.

We all are looking at this from one direction the question is outside the metro areas like LA etc. just how popular will this technology be? I can see many areas where this will not play well. Just exactly how will the public take this all in.

The real wall will be at some point they will have to remove the free radical here the person with the non self driving car. This is the one thing they have no control over and it will have to be removed. I wonder how they are going to deal with that. Also my other concern is you are turning your vehicle over to the system. This means if someone out there says there is too much traffic on the 405 at 5 PM you can not go that way even if you want to at that time. They may like a bus route assign times you can travel which means you may take longer getting home or you may not even be able to stop at a store on the way home if the traffic control division says you can't. Also if they would like to restrict movement of people from one region to another they can do that too. While this may be a Utopian dream for some it could prove to be a major factor in taking away your liberty to travel as you see fit today. In the hands of the wrong people it could really be a problem. If you do not think it could happen the government now is thinking about making you put a smart thermostat in your home. They already are putting smart appliances that control the output of appliances in some areas now. Same with electric meters. The Big Brother thing was set for 1999 but it was just a little bit late. Not saying this will happen but the tools will be in place to make it happen if someone thinks they can live your life better for you. I think the government now is a little too far on that now.

As an enthusiast I see the self driving car is the Anti Christ of the automobile. To me this is the end of the car enthusiast and it will render automobiles as just pods to move us from place to place. I know "have you ever driven the 405 at rush hour?" The answer is yes but have you ever driven The Tail of the Dragon in Tennessee? I just hope this all drags out long enough I will be too old to drive by then.

Well here is some of what we can look forward to with some comments from Johann to some questions. Will Cadillac continue to build more than one version of their cars for a global market? In short he said he would like to make one car globally to fit all markets if possible. Why has it taken till now to sort out Cadillac? His response was that it has taken till now to determine just what Cadillac stands for as a brand and how do we evolve it from its proud history into the future. He does not want to follow the others and take Cadillac on the path they once took back in their greatest era like in the 30's. Substance, Technolog, Craftsmanship and Fit and Finish are all things that add to the experience. In other words when you get into a Cadillac it is not like getting into just a car but a Cadillac as defined by its attributes. What killed the wagon? Share Holder Mandates? The wagon died as it could not pay for its development cost. Things they may not make like a Standard Shift CTS are due to the low volumes and the lack of profits. Cadillac will be independent of GM but they are still held to the status of making money like any other division. Diesels and Hybrids in The Future. He said both will play large parts. China with its zero emissions needs and Europe Diesel expectations make both a must. We will see EV hybrids and Diesels through out the lines. Would they consider building a Halo car on the new C8 Corvette. [Note he never said there was no planned car] He said "I am sure you would agree that starting with a very advanced Corvette platform would be a nice place to start a Halo car" But he goes on and tells of them looking to so something much more Cadillac like that no one else is doing. A 4 door Convertible is what he envisions as being a better halo car that would play off how Cadillac made their past. They were known for large well crafted convertible touring sedans. The old V6 cars were the statement and the standard of the world and this is his kind of thinking. Now while you guys are arguing over engines that may not even be in a Cadillac 5-10 years from now there are much bigger things you need to expect. We are on the cusp of seeing Cadillac turning into a company we have never seen in our lifetime. I feel many here have set their expectations much lower than where this is all going. I have watched and listened and what we have today is termed not good enough and it Is even better than we have had in decades. This thinking from inside GM and Cadillac is exciting to me as if they feel it is not good enough how much more are we going to see. With some of the hints we get I expect some big things to come. It will take time but GM has time as they even at low volumes are making money. So while some of you want to argue about a 3.0 TT in everything you just need to sit back and let them finish what they are starting now. Much of your arguments will be negated by what develops. This is not the same old GM anymore and it is time for you to understand that they just finally have gotten back on their feet after decades of being knocked on their ass by their own management. They have the ability to do about anything they want but have been held back. Today the people who have been chained have been set free to do as they can for once and we will see the changes in much larger and faster moves. If you like Cadillac now you will look back in 10 years and say wow that was nothing back then. The cars of the future will make the present CTS look like a old STS. Note GM has the freedom too with Cadillac not to be all things to all people like BMW and Benz have to be in Europe. They can just focus on the high end stuff and not worry about the base models as they have Buick to pick up the lower end. This also will let them be available to a much more select group. The fact is Cadillac when it was at it's best was not a car for everyone. In the 30's only the rich and most powerful had them and it really meant something to own a Cadillac. When they cheapened up and became available to just anyone then it meant nothing. The classis example is A Ferrari. It is special to see a Ferrari and to own one as not just anyone can. But if you had 7 in your neighbor hood and you see them all the time at Wal-mart then it would not mean so much would it. Time for us here to stop micro managing the rebuilding of Cadillac with little to no reference of the future here. So many have underestimated where I expect this to go we all are best off letting it play out. Like I have said you need to not just bench mark the others you have to supersede them. That is just what Johann has stated and I think it will be exciting to see just what all we get.

Anyone read the new lately? Anyone see the news where GM is working on some projects with Honda and they both would like to work together on more in the future. See my above post from 2012

The fact is a class action will do little to help any owners. All it does is enrich the lawyers. The owners will not get new cars and are very unlikely to even see a new engine. At most they may see a modest repair or get some kind of free oil change or discount on a new car. So little real info is out there as we know there are failures but so few people have put much together and GM in nearly all the cases has stepped in and taken care of the problems. I have not seen were they have refused a customer a repair at this point unless I missed one. It would be nice to see more data on many of these cases to see a pattern of failure and know just what is going on. I have read of several failures and info was limited and not always the same. My boss has one and his is still running at this point with no ill effects. Several other near where I live are still on the road too.

I would not buy one but it has that Soul like quality of being different that appeals to many people. If quality holds it should do well. I hate the tail lights as they look like the eyes of a dead cartoon figure. Very true the tail lights do remind me of dead cartoon characters but then anime and cartoons are big right now all over especially with Marvel Movies. What do you think about the trailer? Should GM do something like that for their twins? No trailer. I would spend the money on more bolt on goods for the Colorado and Canyon. Affordable items that will sell in volume. I still would love to see a ZQ8 version with proper sized wheels and lowered.

Well the Germans can afford to drop a harsh engine from time to time. But most are less forgiving toward a challenger like Cadillac. Once they establish themselves as a leader in this segment they can get away with one now and then but right now an warts no matter how small will be presented by most in the media. The key now is what they have is not bad but they just need better and specific to them. I expect the TT V8 soon too and it will be interesting to see if it is all new or a TT LS. We have not heard much about it and with as long as it is coming I expect it will be Cadillac specific. I do not call them sign post but they are stepping stones to the future.

I would not buy one but it has that Soul like quality of being different that appeals to many people. If quality holds it should do well. I hate the tail lights as they look like the eyes of a dead cartoon figure.

You already have people complaining about the prices. Add TT to each engine you add much more to the price tag. Also what would you use for the V sport then. Cadillac is offering a nice spread of V6 models that will hold a price that will give customers a choice. Most buyers will be happy with 335 HP as most people are fine at 300 HP in most cars. If they want more the 3.0 TT will be around 400 HP for the V sport when it arrives. You need to let them play the rest of the cards they hold and see the whole picture. A boosted six cylinder is the standard of this segment. Cadillac is trying to compete with less while having to try to overcome their inferior perception to buyers. That just won't cut it. They need to build a car that one ups the competition in every regard, not just one or two, and count on price to do the rest. They need more power, they need more luxury, and they need to be priced in line with their rivals. Bump the V Sport up to 470 hp, and put a 3.0 TT in the CTS below it with 375 hp. Most people being fine with 300 hp is irrelevant. By that logic, Cadillac shouldn't build the CTS-V . As always, it seems like they're just a few ingredients shy of the right recipe to show up the rest of the class. The performance of the present engines in these cars are very competitive to even better than the others. The real issue is refinement and exclusivity. GM has tried to make the 3.0 a Cadillac engine but it is too close to the corporate 3.6. This will soon change when they get their own engines on line. I expect smoother and more sophisticated engines that will better define Cadillac's independence. Also when you pay more you should get more than a corporate engine. The engines are an example of where Cadillac is. They are good but not good enough. Then must not be close but they must be clearly better to win image and respect here. Better track times alone and other good comments are not enough. If you want to win in this segment and beat the champs you must knock them out. That is what the next 5 years will bring us. To win it must be unanimous in any kind of comparison. I agree with most of what you said, however the only engines from a competing make the Cadillac 3.6 favorably stands up to are those from Infiniti and Lexus. All 3 of the Germans' blown sixes wife the floor with it. No question about that. But again they are priced in the same range too and under cut the Germans with the cheaper 3.6. You have to keep perspective here that we are in transition. The engines today were deemed good enough by the Cadillac staff of one or two leaders ago. In no way do I see Johann approving of all we have today. Much will change and to compare what todays leadership will represent will take up to 5 years to show up. One year is not going to make wholesale changes and you can not expect Johann to speak out against it till he has what he wants in place. Sometimes you need to make do with what you have till you get what you want. Also we are transitioning from a High Volume lower priced Cadillac to a more exclusive and higher priced models. There will be gaps in the line up of old and new as we see change. No company today can make all the changed at one time to all things. The cost is just way to high for that anymore. We will see most changed in the next 5 years and continued changed to refine the remainder of the lines. Like the XTS it really no longer represents what Cadillac is and where it is going. But it is here and they have to let it play out till they have better to replace it. Also there is the fleet aspect to protect the CTS ands ATS from those sales. The coming product will almost all consist of smaller 2.0-3.0 and 4.0 4-6-8 engines with Turbocharging. The fact is they can not just produce these engines over one year of change. I do not expect them all to be here in 5 years as exclusive engine either. To do it right takes time and money. Now for now we will have to be ok with engines that perform nearly as well but a little less refined. Also factor in the lower cost of the non boosted engines in cars that are cheaper than the Germans, To be honest The Germans offer lower more basic cars in Europe that are not all boosted and offer a wider variety that we do not see here. Cadillac is just the reverse. When they go back to Europe I would be shocked to see anything less than a V sport initially offered. If there were no change coming to me that would signal Cadillac has settled to be less than they could be. We are not seeing that and I expect some major changed that we would never have imagined 10 years ago from the General. It is a different game anymore at GM. The people who have not been the problem are now in charge and we should see the results given the time to make the changes. Right now Johann is just holding the cards he was dealt. He will drop 4 and ask for 4 more cards to play his own hand.

You do realize that when you criticize one company for their incentives, you are criticizing all of them (except for the uber luxury and high performance makes of course) right? It is a seriously tired and pointless argument based off of that one simple fact alone. You realize there is a greater difference between getting $1500 off a Cruze and $7500 off a 300. Also you have to factor in is the incentives at the end of the year or the dead of winter or are they year round for the last 3-4 years at the high end dollar amounts. My in laws bought a Chrysler 300 for less than a Chevy Malibu. While this was a good deal for the in Laws it was not a good thing for a cash poor company who is not leaving much meat on the bone in profits per car. Same for all the Chryslers dumped on the Fleet Sales. I could hardly get a car last summer when traveling that was not a current FCA product [Note one was a Maserati rental Not a good thing for image]. Yes GM has fleet sales but often it is the out going model that has remained in production like the Captiva, Impala and like we will see with the present Nox and Cruze. These cars will be replaced in the new car market and they will go to fleet to add income and not damage the new models sales. It is a matter of taking all factors into account here. You can not just toss out a incentive or fleet blanket over the entire industry as it is the details that tell the entire story. In the end it is how much meat is on the bone that counts and at Chrysler they are leaving meat on the bone that they really could use. I blame not Chrysler but Fiat for their lack of better support and the misleading guidance or Sergio. The way I see it time will sort this one out and unless there are some changes it will prove my case.

You guys don't get the actual Renegade up there? Just the 500L? To me, the Renegade looks 10X better than the 500L. I think the 500 looks good but the L just looks like a bloated 500 but not in a good way. It is better looking and has more appeal.

They are close now but if they address the details like Cue, and interior issues along with eliminationg some of the standard GM quality bits they can really be a dominate brand here. For too long they bench marked and just tired to be as good as. They need to take the next step and be better than in all areas. That is what the $12 Billion was all about. It was like Ali in his later fights. He was far from the best fighter and won many of the fights just because he was the reining champ. It often takes a knock down or out to beat the title holder as they get the benefit of a doubt.