hyperv6

I don't know if this really has a V8 but it will fit the Kappa per Fbodfather and Mallet. If some backyard guys can put a SBC, Northstar or a BBC in a Fiero I am sure GM can figure out how to put a V8 in a Kappa The question is would Chevy really let Pontiac use the 700 HP engine in one of their concepts before they show it in the Vette? Besides Pontiac over the last few years has used SEMA to preview SPO parts and future products with some styling upgrades like the Autocross series. I may be wrong but I think this gold car may be closer to a GXP Turbo Ecotech for 07 with a lot of bling and some tuning on the engine than anything else? It is just a preview of some of what is coming. I think your V8 car is going to be the white with blue striped Solstice from Stainless Steel Brakes corp. They have done show cars in the past that are over the top and use help from GM. We had their Colorado Pick up they did at work and is was one sweet ride. I can only imagine what they will do to the Solstice. The drawing look like a Cobra. Anyone notice the rocker on the gold Solstice is similar to the mock up on the G6 shown else where. It did not have the cooling duct but did have a similar kick up. Just have to wait and see.

Here is the Club racer that Pontiac is showing at SEMA this week. I am not sure but suspect much of this may be based on what we will see in some of the Pontiac supported racing programs for the Solstice. They have yet to anounce the engien but I suspect it will sport a Turbo. The looks are over the top but keep in mind it is like the C6R and much of it is base on a race car. The gold on the other hand must look better in person? If you look around the fog lights they used parts from the 07 turbo. I expect this to be part 07 turbo and many SPO body kit parts like the GTO kit they offer at the dealer.

If you look at the chair legs in the back ground it is low enough to be a car. Now if you look at the bumper it has the look of a truck or SUV. My thought is the still covered top part still is incomplete and not built up yet or this was just used to mock a front bumper section on. There is too lttle under the cover part that is know to make anymore out of what we can see. For all we know they coud be just mocking up a bumper and rocker kits for a truck and not even finish the top. They are cutting cost you know.

The last I was told the roof was very similar [not identical] to the 2nd Gen Camaro. The person who told me said "think 2nd Gen". As for the rear window nothing was said. They would have to cut into to the C pillar by the rear door or wrap the rear window to cut the blind spot would be my guess. The styling of using cue's from all years blends with what has been told GM publicly stated of the new GTO too.

I was told a while back the front was also not the same look but was not told what to expect. But the roof would be sleek like a 2nd gen and styling cue's from the 3rd and 4th would be incorperated into the car. I see some of this in the drawing. The car as a whole is not retro in a Mustang kind of way. It is more retro in a Vette kind of way. The new Vette has cue's from many different gen's incorperated into one new design. The bottom line is it will be a whole new design but when you look at it you know it is a Camaro. They want to avoid the full retro look but also avoid the complaints like they GTO generated of not looking like a GTO. I am excited and waiting for Detroit.

Blue Devil was only a code name and was never under consideration as a production name. If Gm won't let Pontiac use Banshee you know Blue Devil would never fly. Keep in mind the ZR-1 was code name King Of The Hill. A while back I saw where there was talk of a SS as almost every Chevy has a SS performance model just like the old days. They also pointed out the original Super Sport was the Corvette racer and show car in the 50's. Don't know if there was anything to this but it sounded good. I would like ZL-1 myself.

I don't know if anyone has noted this but Chevy everywhere but the mid east and the States is a Daewoo. Buick is losing product here but is adding more in China and is one of GM's sellers are all based on Holden. Opel and Saturn will be as one soon with only the grill bar being the difference Corvette in Europe is not a Chevy anymore. The Delta that is the Cobalt and Ion is the same base as the Vauxhall. Kappa is going both sides of the Atlantic and Caddy, Hummer and more are both sides too. The new RWD will be shared and possibly built down under just as the GTO is today. I see GM is already far into this plan and it is long overdue. The cars from Japan have for a long time sold many of there cars world wide with only a few nich models in a few markets. As in busness cars are now becoming a global comoditiy and to keep it economical GM and Ford need to follow through on a world car that has been promised for years. Also you can just make GM dealers as the lawsuits would take what is left of GM. Why do you think they are roling Pontiac and Buick into one dealer. They already dodged a bullit with the closing of Olds. They got many of those dealers into Pontiac/Buick/GMC and they have propered after the tough last years of Olds. GM just can run the dealers out.

There at two in the last Pontiac Enthusiast magazine. One is the regular Frost and Gold but the other is a much more rare Black and Gold. They are great cars and I know I have two in my area. I think one even has the mobile phone option.

As for my comments I was not attacking anyone just defending my opinion. When I say V6 I don't mean stripper it will be well equipped. Even Holden offers a Monaro with a 3800SC under the GTO. Also the loss of the 4Th Gen and the ongoing sales for the Mustang were all tied too the V6 sales cars sales. Not everyone can afford The V8 price. But no one has hit one one true reasone here, not everyone can Afford the INSURANCE! All the above is info is based on my own observations and bits of info I have heard. So only accept it as my opinion. As for my confidence in Fbodfather, I don't want imply anything wrong with some of the others info but when they give me a named well placed GM employee that is giving the info I may pick up on it. As for now I know what Fbodfather does for a living and I know what car he has a great passion for, So if you want me to choose between a named well placed GM employee who was well connected to the F body for years or a unnamed scouce I will be more confident with the named GM well place employee. Besides his info has been on the target on this topic for a long time. Lets face it if a guy can get GM to make a ES edition Camaro for a family member [a one off SS renamed a ES badges, V6 in the last year limited SS paint] he must know something and have good connections. You can believe who you want but My money is on the named and known GM man. If anyone is offended because I sound confident I don't mean it this way. I just trust the person I know and that is why I am confident about his info. Lets face it if I am wrong or anyone else this is only a web site and this is just some of the fun.

Here is the reality of this even though some refuse to accept it. The key to the new Camaro will be a low priced well equipt V6 that sells in high volume. It must be acceptable to women as much as men vs the 4th gen was a mans car and most women did not like it. It will have a more upright seating with a usable trunk and rear seat. There is a market for this car and the a Mustang is proving that now. The Mustang has never been a great car but price and V6 sales have kept it alive. Many of these sales have been to women. A great performance V8 car will be needed but kept under 30K with a high end low volume Super Z28 redied to compete with the Cobra. Yes look for ther SS as the standard performance car and the Z28 to move to the top of the list. Don't want to believe this look around what is Chevy making for every model, a SS. Talk even has the Vette even getting a SS in the future. Soltice vs Camaro is Apples to Oranges, their is nothing to compare here as they are for two different markets and one is low volume 2nd or 3rd car and the other is high volume 1st or 2nd car. The bigger your market the more you will sell. The Camaro need to sell in big numbers as Chevy has one halo car now and has no need for another low profit halo car. They only passed the SSR off as a truck halo and it will die soon due to the lack of sales and profit. They will not repeat the SSR again with this car. As for my statment the the car will be in Detroit and adding "unless anything happens". I got my info from the guy who ran the Camaro program for years and was offered early retierment. He planned to stay on because of what he was working on in Detroit for Chevy [his love of the Camaro is unmatched in GM]. He is the one that is telling all Camaro fans to be at Detroit. I know his word is good and his past record of info has not fail unless someone high up pulls a last minute plug on a program against Chevys will. With Chapter 11 hovering nothing is 100% Also if a plug is pulled Scott would be the first to let us know it is off at this point he is not changing his story. If something changes Scott will be the first to let us know in his web posts not someone here. Also as Scott has posted think a lot of 2nd gen in this car too not just 1st gen.

Saturn is running rings around the other divisions as the new American Opel and represents a true world platform for GM. Pontiac is seccond here in the states as they have the most potential here and the new product will show it. On the world stage it's Buick and the potential profit in China can kick all their butts on a world wide basies. The Chineses love their Buicks and there are a lot of them to buy them. Buick is weak here but China alone could save the line. GM is working on a world wide system for their cars and as of yet we have not see a Pontiac out side the States and it scares me!

Brandon I wish more people were like you and understand who they can trust and who they should not. I got the same infor from Fbod first hand and know him from past info to be good for this word! unless someone comes along between then and now and pulls this car from the show it is still on. Scott is very careful about what he says and at time info may not make sense till you find some more later but his word on the car being there is good enough for me. Let put it into perspective, when eveyone killed off the Zeta in March he told us it was not dead and will be reserected. Let see am I going to believe someone posting on here or someone who's company car was a Z06 Camaro? I think I would go with the guy with the one off company car. Besides his new company car now is a 05 Z06 and he had his long before you could buy one. But please watch and read what the Fbodfather/red planet posts as he will have the most accurate info allowed to be give this side of the black lake. He is good for his word and as he says keep the faith! He has not let me down yet in 5 years of accurate info. Keep in mind if things change for the worse he will also be the first to let us know.

I have no idea who this guy is but the Camaro will be in Detroit unless something changes between now and then like chapter 11. Fbodfather has confirmed the plan and he is one in the know! The plan is to premire it like the Z06 at a private party preceding the show. Besides I thought GM and most companies have given up on clay? I also would think they would be doing assembley work at this time? Only the Solstice was started this late for the NAAS.

Thank you for understanding where I am coming from on this. I did not mean to make it more than it was other than a production engine in a production car. Sorry but I don't give SD engines second thoughts when installed in different Pontiac's due to the fact they were put into many different Pontiacs by dealers and racers back then. They are rare today but far from 1 off deals. Pontiac dealers made some great combo's with back door factory help and I am happy to see so many cars still around. I guess some may class them as custom's but I still think of them as factory if using all stock parts. My error was not stating it was a factory installed engine. Sorry.

Where are the all the folks who said this would not sell now?? GM can afford to build a lot of these as they have a large morket group that would buy these. Unlike the Solstice, not everyone can live alone with a 2 seater car. They do need to offer it in many different styles in the next few years like a panel and performance versions to keep it fresh till it is due for a restyle. I think even a small pick up version would be nice and still keep it's truck rating. Special editions will also help. Job well done GM and Mr Lutz! Am I the only one but from the windshield back it looks more like a Jeep Liberty vs a PT?

Lighten up 421 SD engines found their way into many different Pontiac's, or at least in this area they did. You can blame me for what ever you want but a wise man never assumes anything. As for the SD engine it spun a rod bearing and had a tri power on it. I know they have the exhaust manifolds yet as I just saw them not long ago. I am not sure if he kept it or sold the engine. He still has the car but rarely drives it since he restored his 62 T bird Sport roadster. His next project is a 60 Starliner like he built in 1960. We had at our disposal in the late 70's-early 90's these Pontiac's and too bad they don't have most of them now since they are worth a bundle today. 63 GP, 62 Tempest convert, 77 TA, 74 Formula 4sp, 65 GTO, 64 GTO, 66 GTO drag car, 74 SD TA with the original engine, 67 Firebird 400, 69 GP 428, 76 Jag 428 and a few other cars that were bought to be sold or stripped for parts. The 64 GTO, 63 GP, a recent addition of a 68 GTO and 76 Jag are still around along with a collection of engines. My buddies dad worked at Knafel as did the Terry I work with today. They both got to work on some of the Tin Indian cars and had a race car that Bill Knafel helped them with. Terry the guy I work with has a 60 Cat factory 4 sd race car that came out of Detroit. We are 98% sure it was the Pete Seton's car that was runner up at the NHRA US Nationals in Detroit in 1960 [the blue one in the prints]. The car was parked in 1965 and just brought out in the early 1990's. I am working with a guy from High performance Pontiac Magazine that is interested in the car, he might be able to help provide documentation it was the factory car that Pete's father order for him as a GM offical. It has factory installed Stewart Warner gauges in the dash idiot light holes and some other factory mods. Terry is restoring a 67 GTO right now. He also helped a guy that restored one of the original Tin Indians. We have a few big time Pontiac People in this area like Ted Rob the vintage SD racer 3 cars one with a set of back up heads for M Thompsons Challanger II car. 2 of his cars were featured in HPP, Don Johnston and his brother Paul who run Don Carberator who specialize in building Pontiac racing engines and co sponsore the races at the Pontiac Tri Power Nats at Norwalk. and Glassco Family who race the national factory mucsle car meets in their rare show show winning Pontiac's. They also have been featured in many magazines. Pontiac is pretty strong in this area for some reason so it is not hard to find these rare cars at shows and races around here. Even Arlen Vanke pops into town when he is not fishing in Michigan though in a Plymouth most times. Knafel is not doing to good with a poor heart but Terry is still in contact with him from time to time. They are going to feature my 1990 Fiero nose emblem collection in the near future in High Performance Pontiac. I dug into this and found of around 100-150 made only around 20 are accounted for. My friend in FL and I have most of them. I was lucky to get a hold of some people at the company that produced them for GM and a few people at GM that gave me the original engineering drawing of them. Most of them were thrown out by GM or taken by employees once the Fiero was canceled. It was just neat to find them and authenticate them. The funny part is GM does not have one for their only remaining 1990 Fiero. I have been lucky to be around a lot of good old time Pontiac people and seem destin to be involved with Pontiac's. I guess it started when I was brought home from the hospital in a 60 Ventura. We even lucky to have one of the best national Hemi restorers in the area Sheppards. As for your non mods tallk to Vic Edlebrock [I did] about his Smokey's Camaro Trans Am car it was clearly outside the rules when they restored it. As for the SD cars I have never seen much in print to prove anything but I will have to recheck my Autobiography and see if he tells any tricks. It is 3 volumes and I have not gotten through the whole thing yet. Smokey did not often tell on himself even afer he got out of racing. He still denied the large fuel line in the Chevelle. I was very lucky to meet him at PRI a year or so before he passed. Keep in mind Nascar today has much less cheating than in the 60's and if you did not cheat you did not win back then. Junior Johnson is proof of that. I guess you never saw the Bannana 65 Galaxie. Back then bigger than stock engines larger than stock fuel tanks trick non stock springs, non stock body mods and many more tricks were common and the norm, yes even the Pettys cheated. These things were not always addressed by Big Bill France as he was more worried about keeping the car companies involved and putting on a good show than inforcing all the rules. It was more selctive inforcment back then. Smokey, Ray Fox, Junior, HM, Petty Bud Moore, all had many tricks they pulled and never got caught back then and the engine was one area never off limits to cheating.

[quote name='balthazar' date='Oct 9 2005, 12:00 PM'] hyperV6- you did not ride to school in a '63 GP SD. '69 GPs have 140 MPH speedos, not 130. Never said it was a factoy installed 421 SD did I????? It later had a 400 Ram Air IV in the car too. Both were factory spec engines installed in a 63 GP. Not sure of the year SD it was or if it was an over the counter engine. The 400 Ram Air was out of a GTO. When your buddys father workerd for one of the Pontiac dealers in the 60's that raced for Pontiac you have a lot of good hardware laying around. We put tome fun combo's together over the years. Sorry I missed on the Speedo on the 69 GP but it was 20 years ago since I drove it. I just knew we went over 130. Valves would float just over 130 as it had high mileage. Before you tell me what I did or did not do please ask for more info! Don't under estimate what others have done. I never claimed it was stock. One of the most fun cars we had to play with was a 428 in a 76 Jag sedan. Before you say it yes I did drive this one and no it was not factory!!!! So you really think Smokey's 62 Cat's engine was 90% factory Stock at Daytona?? Now keep in mind he never cheated he just read the rule book better.

The SD stock cars were production in body but far from stock in the engine. We used to drive a SD 63 GP to school. Even geared right it would just clear 130 MPH in stock form. We used the 69 428 GP to check the speed as it has a 130 Spedometer. Even my buddys 455 SD TA was limited by its gearing. As for the comment earliier about the hard core enthusiast. It is better now but for the longest time many of the old school would not accept that Pontiac made cars after 1979 when the last 400's were built. They feel that was the last of the true Pontiac powered Pontiac car. I also like to point out the 301 was a Pontiac and they really hate it when you point out the last Pontiac powered Pontiac car was a 1988 Fiero Iron Duke 4 cylinder. it was one of the last Pontiac's if not the last built in the Pontiac Michigan. You guys are safe with the turbo TA as top speed unless someone has a non speed limited 05 GTO that I have not heard of.

I know the 89 turbo was good for near 170 MPH with much less power than the 05 GTO. I would expect the GTO could and should top that with out a fuel cut off. Heck my GTP comp G will do 140 MPH on only 260 HP. The fastest street legal production based car [TA] that could be driven anywhere might be one of Herb Adams Fire Am's. They would drive them to Florida and race the 24 HR of Daytona in the 70's. I think they could top 180 MPH. The fastest production block Pontiac ever would be Mickey Thompsons Challanger II. It cleared 400 MPH but could not make a return run due to damage from the first run. It carried 4 supercharged Pontiac engines and was wheel driven.

You use a 4n platform that is not even GM derived and people will scream to high heaven. They pissed an moaned enough just with a GM derived 4n platform as it is.

Mark Reuss is going to do more good working on things that will cover all the car lines vs just the performance models. He is well liked by management and with a lot of new models coming including the RWD cars, I see no one better to lead development. As for Pontiac It is not the best of times but it is not the worst. I recall 1980-1983 as some pretty lean years. At least today we have a GTO that blows the doors off most Pontiac's past and present. A GXP GP that may be FWD but is a true drivers car. Now we have the Solstice that MPH magazine drove to Alaska [don't ask why] and loved the car. They said it had great handling and rode bettter on a gravel road than a M3 did on the LA freeways. With the right engine I see the G6 coupe as a wanted car soon. Things at GM are turning and it takes time to turn a ship this big. I am sure in the next few years you will be please with what is coming. Just wait for the next [I never thought I would say this] Malibu and CTS Caddy! These are the kind of cars that will change peoples preception of GM.

I think you will find magazine reviews will not effect the trucks as much. GM sell most of there truck to those who never darken the pages of many of these magazines. Brand loyalty runs deep in the truck market and the competitors from the east will make inroads but not have as easy time of doing it as they did the car market.

They can say what they want about the Viper but that V10 never sang a song this well. That new Z06 exhaust is the best sounding exhaust GM has made to date. Even my buddy with a Viper says his car sounds like an old school bus.

Both of you are right! Also the engineers did not want a FWD anyway. This is also the car that helped kill the Fiero. They had planned the GM 80 to be built in Pontiac Michigan along side the Fiero plastic body and all. But when it was killed off the plant was far below capacity and gave GM the excuse to kill the Fiero. I know the Fiero had a lot of other contributing problems but a unprofitable plant building only 30,000 cars that could build 300,000 was officially the final nail in the coffin. 1993 was too late for Pontiac to delay getting a new car into the same plant. They looked at moving a Saturn there but did not need anymore production. Pontiac already had the 1990 Fiero ready to go into production and had several prototypes ready to go. This was all at a time GM's top non car Rodger Smith wanted all car but the Corvette and Fiero to be FWD.

Because the GXP update was probably around 50-100 million dollars to do and a whole new car would be 1-2 billion dollars. Money is in short suppy at GM and is budgeted year to year. This year was the high profit /cash flow providing SUV's that will help fund the new RWD GP in the near future. The V8 gig was sorted out a few years a go and shelved by Chevy. It was brought back to punch the older cars by Lutz. If he had not arrived it may have never made it to market to buy them time on this line.