hyperv6

I found Fbod's comment about the Kappa other site "NOPE" on 11-22 Updated when I noted I posted Zeta when I ment Kappa based on F bodfather comments on the Camaro web site. My mistake sorry!

Well from what Scott has stated in a publications. If GM brought the car back this is what it would take. "A Camaro as having the following DNA, If you will: A muscular V8, RWD, handles as if it was on rails, and immediately recognizable as a Camaro." He has also noted to several the car will have cue's from all Gens and has made a point to note second gen like in the roof? He also has stated different times none of the drawings have got the car right yet? As for Lutz changing his mind, thats fine as he knows even he can be wrong on something, vs beating through our heads. As for the GTO he was just trying to sell a car he did not want to spend anymore money on and was going to only be here a few years like it was. There was just no budget for it when he arrived and he need it done cheap. Lets face it they could not afford the scoops the first year is the truth why we did not see them. The testing for the fuel system was sky high on all the cars they had to crash test on a limited budget. I speculate my self we will see the new Chevy face on this car first shown on the SS Concept. We have seen some of the new cars going that way and the HHR SEMA concept with the new Chevy face. I also expect round tail ligths since they have come back on several Chevys like the Cobalt and HHR to match the Vette like the old days. As for the Camaro even a 2008 date would be killer the sooner the better.

Keep in mind the Solstice was only done a few month from first though to show time. This showing has been works since late August for sure and I sure a month or so before I was aware of it. It may not be 100% production but this is not going to be just a last minute car. I understand the Kappa part well. You just need to convice those who still don't think it can be enlarged. I figure if some guy in the back yard can stuff a Northstar in a Fiero GM could put a V16 in a Kappa if they really want to [Now that would really be a show car]. Not that I would expect that before someone else tries to point that out. I just mention this to point out they are able to do anything if needed. Well we will have to see in time who is closest, As I stated speculation is the fun part. We will just have to se how close either of us come to what ends up happening. You just may be on the money.

Well I might be a little more opimistic on this speculation. I do know that work to some degree on this car has been going on for nearly a year for a fact and have been told it is near 2 years in the making. The second year I can not verifiy but is from a trusted scource. This is what leads me to believe we will see a faily well developed car. GM of late preceeds many of their new car into's by 18-24 months with 90% running show cars. Where did I put this together from? With Post mostly from Fbodfather from last February and March with info he related to more than one person. Indicated by what we know now that they were already knew the V8 fit the Kappa then, some non specific coments on styling and the loss of the Zeta program was not an issue and things were better to proceed than ever. If the Show car is on a Kappa as it is being reported it indicates they were on to this long ago. Well know Jan 8th on that. If this car is on a Kappa it will speed up developement time since they will not be starting from scratch like the Solstice. Also if built the enlarged Kappa I am sure will spring many new product. To make the most of a economical RWD. Kappa may be the key to keep the price with the Mustang and below where the Zeta was heading over 30K. Pontiac has already said a GTO is being done and have seen no other published reports that they have stopped development. There are even published reports by those in the media that have disputed Autoweeks photo shop as not beign long and low enough as the car they have seen. Keep in mind these cars were started before the SUV's and slowed when the SUV's were move ahead of them. As stated before watch for post from Fbodfather here and at CamaroZ28.com he will give you the parts of the puzzle and with other reports and info you can fit them together in time. I am watching the closing of the W plant in Canada with respect of a replacment car. A RWD sedan is to replace the W line could this be a clue to share underpinnings for the RWD coupe's? The plant closes in 2008 so GM most likley would replace the car 6 month to a year ahead of the closing with it's replacment in 2008 as a 2009? The GTO date has been stated in 2008. At this point I would be shocked if the concept is not a driver, I do not expect another show car like the 99 fake roller GTO show car. Only time will tell us if this is right or wrong it is just my take on this. I will only worry if Scott S tells us not to keep the faith and right now he seems pretty confident. The speculation is the fun part of this.

As most of us know the name was tied up because of agreement with the Canadian Auto workers union that had various stipulations before the name could be used again. To the best that I have learned these stipulations have all been worked out and a while back I was told the name could be used again in 2006. I did not know the date but would guess it is Jan 1st due to the fact the car will be shown on Jan 8 unless the concept car is called something else till Like the SS concept II till a later time? But I don't think that will happen. If you note the post I had with the Fbodfather invite to the Concept car and how they were chosen he never once calls it a Camaro. This is a good example of the care that needed to take place till it is all cleared up. I suspect problems with the union and plant closing in Canada ran much deeper than any of us could have ever realize. The Hudkins story in PHR is as much as any of us publicly know and much of that was not to have been made public. We might get lucky and Scott S will write that book someday, as from just some of what I have learned it would be on heck of a story and would really give credit to many who have supported our car and dream.

I expect this will be played very close to the verst just due to the name being restricted till January. If it is leaked it will be an un official leak as the Z06 was. I also would not want to be caugth doing it with the implications of the problems being resolved in Canada. One journelist was already cut off for printing too much on that topic. This program is not an recent thing, it has been a low key project for near 2 years and has little accurate info out accept for what the Fbodfather has released. With out publicity pictures or a comercial being filmed I don't expect much will get shown unless GM want't it this time. The items we see release from the Autoweek I would guess are some of the slow unoffical build up to the release. GM does not want all the focus for the next two months on the Challanger but also do not want to say the C word till they can officially can. I know things are real tight on new cars anymore, when I was shown a C6 months before it's release. I was permited to ask questions and look but if I took a picture I think you may have never seen me again. I expect many will be shocked at how far the car is to production status. This will not be a roller with no engine. I expect something along the lines of the Saturn Aura that was 90% production with only a few detail to be worked out. With the W plant closing in 2008 and the new GTO coming I expect the 2009 model year will be what we see. I don't have any 100% proof on this but from what I have been reading and seeing what GM has done on show car the last few years it would fall in line like this. I will also go out on a limb and say we might see the RWD Pontiac at Chicago? Pontiac has used Chicago for the release of new models over the last few years. I would not be suprised if they give us the first look there on the RWD. Only time will tell if I am right or wrong on the one. Remeber it is always quite before the storm and we all will know on Jan 8 what to expect.

losing th Job Banks are a very key part to help GM get their MFG cost in line with 4N compitition. Now that they are custting capacity at masny plants and doing it fairly, it will be very inportant to remove the job bank. How many of todays companies have to keep paying people to stay home even if they don't need them. I think the UAW is finally understanding that you may have to lose a leg to save the rest of the body.

The Malibu will be all new for 08 and from the press that have seen it none have said anything bad. All have said it has knock out looks and should really help GM. Lutz has done a great job! He came here with both arms tied behind his back with no money and little time to make changes. The Solstice and HHR are just two of his new products alongh with the grat new looking SUV's. I have know idea where some critics think things were going to be different over night at GM with Lutz there. He could only patch up what was already started and in the real world it takes 4-5 years to see new product from a clean sheet. 4-5 years if you have money. Also if Toyota or Nissan overhaul there product line they only have to address 1/4 as many vehicles as GM as they do not offer as many lines If GM can get the labor problems worked out the rest will come and GM will be very competitive in the near future. The key is the labor cost and over capacity of labor. Mark is right when Caddy and Chevy are healthy the rest will come. GM could just survive on the two dividsions alone. The other divisions when healthy are just added profits and market share, both good when the divisions are healty and a burden when they are not.

The Fact is Mr Moore has distorted so many facts along with Moveon. org for their own ajendas and do more damage to America than most radical is fundimentalist Islamic. He is no more benifit to America as the poverty pimps Jesse and Al with their where is the camera at thinking. It just a shame we have so many good people liberal and conservitive that deserve much more attention and would do more good for our country but get overshadowed by activist who seek to do damage to our country like Mr Moore. Mikey and Move On want us to believe a lie a'int a lie if you find enough fools to believe it. The fact is the truth is the truth and there is just is not space in between it. He will be found out by more people and his time will pass, people he can only keep it up so long before he falls and falls hard. Any way back to the topic. GM's problems started long ago in the late 60's. the following mangment in the 70's and 80's failed to advance and make the hard calls before any damage was done. Mr Wagoner is not to blame for everything, he has done some things right and some wrong. but the ship was taking on more water than he had buckets when he came in. In short he could have done a better job but he was put in a hole that very few would have done anybetter than he has. At least he was not another Smith. Lutz came into this game with both arms tied behind his back. He had little money and little time to fix a lot of problems with product. Keep in mind the bigger the company bigger the problems. When Nissan and Toyota need to overhaul their line up it is only 1/4 to what GM has to do. Just overhauling Chevy is equal work to just one of the competitors. The bottom line is GM needed to make better deals with the UAW long ago and planned better with dealing with product from overseas companies that are being produce much cheaper due to labor cost. The sad thing is with many of the things voted in in the 90's it has opened the China market wide open. they are paying people so little money [where is Michael Moore now?] to mfg products they are going to under cut us in all areas. It is not Ford vs Chevy, it is now Chevy vs Chery. The people of this country are going to have to learn to compete on a world market and if they will do it cheaper than us we will lose. No one ever thought the great empires of the Sovit Union, United Kingdom and Rome would fall, They did. It is not too late for us but we need to react now. Companies are here to make money and not just employ people. It would be wonderful if you could make big bucks and retire from the same company as our father and grandfathers did, but the world has changed. China has figured out what Japan has tried to do in the past, take over the world monetarily. Japan fail due to limited labor and limited natural resouces. China has a great amount of both and now has the money from Hong Kong and are still tryng to get the banks of Taiwan. GM today is much like the rest of the America and can make it if they all are willing to take on some hard choices and sacrifices. We are not leading the world anymore we are a part of the world as other have cought up and will do it cheaper. Besides if it was easy to run a large corperation we all would be doing it. How many CEO's we have here? Also if you don't like what they are doing get your degree put in a lot of long hours and days. Get a divorce or two while missing your kids growing up. Also don't forget the ulcer pills as it effects your health and you too could have all this easy fun. I have seen some have it good and many other die young because of the stress. Moneys not everything. The bottom line is GM is building better cars but they need to build them cheaper.

Not saying Autoweek is wrong but they also claimed the 07 Solstice will be Supercharged. We knew when they printed the story it was going Turbo. We will know soon enough. I know as late as Feb of 05 the V8 fit the Kappa because Fbodfather said it fit back then.

Sorry for the dupe I missed the other thread.

AUTOWEEK Posted Date: 11/22/05 Camaro coming Dodge won’t get all the muscle car buzz with its Challenger concept at the Detroit auto show this January. Word is General Motors will show a Camaro concept on a stretched Kappa (Solstice, Sky) chassis. The car is set for production as a 2009 model, sources say. The other GM concept for Detroit won’t be a Pontiac Firebird, but more likely will be a Buick crossover. Don't know how accurate this is yet, but will be a big blow to those claiming the Kappa could not be stretched. Fbodfather said last Feb a V8 would fit in the Kappa, so that may have been a clue back then? Note the 2009 fits when the W body is to die and a new GTO is also to arrive. Clues are dropping and with plant closings and lines being dropped when might be able to fit the many peices together soon. A Zeta would be good as when know it is Cheap and the press loves the road manners on the Solstice.

I have considered the Inline 6 for the Camaro as it would give it the best 6 made in America . Also don't forget Chevy have a production capable 300+ HP turbo 5 cylinder they have not used yet. The only question is packaging in a car. Can they get it to fit under the hood of the new car? If BMW can do it They should be able to figure it out.

Saturn has a very good name and would be wasted now that they will be offering much better cars. People thing of good service and people friendly dealers the new product will fix what they are missing. Many yet still remember Opel as a rusting Buick import. Holden means nothing here and if you offered their RWD in Pontiac you would fix the product part there. Bottom line is Names are not an issue just the old product that is going out soon.

This info was from the new Book Mental Floss Forbidden Knowledge by Collins press. You should see what Al Gore dropped out of.

Michael Moore is proof that with the right promotion you could make anyone famous. He beat Pair Hilton by a few years. Mr Moore is a fraud as he protrays himself and the common man though he lives in a multi million dollar penthouse in New York. It is fine to have money in my book but don't say your for the down and out and make a dollar off of supporting them. Just visit his back ground and see what kind of a person he really is. Drops out of seminary school because the seminary refused to let him watch a Detroit Tigers game. He dropped out of the University of Michigan because he could not find a parking place one morning. He once worked for a auto plant in Flint and called off on his first day of work and never returned. He is a very good example of what is going wrong in this country. If he fell off the map today we would all be better for it.

Why would he work at GM when he can make Chip Foose kind of money on his own..

As I said take it for what it is worth. It was just nice to see a racing series look at using a Camaro and a magazine printing that there is a Camaro program. Like it or not the ratings in Nascar are bigger than any other series in this country. I myself may still watch NASCAR but still long for the pre 1990's when real sheet metal was still used and cars were not so aero. God I miss Dale SR, Cale, Richmond and Pearson!!! I still think a Trans AM series using production cars much like they did from 1969-1970 would be a sweet deal and give the Auto companies a place to show what their real cars can do. How about a 2009 blue and yellow Sunoco Penske Camaro????

Just read an artical in Speedway Illistrated Dec 05. It had an artical that interviewed many in the NASCAR comunity. One item I found interesting was where they talked to Ford and NASCAR about the future of the BUSH series. I know it does not mean much now but it show others are looking for GM to build a Camaro for their own purpose. Quote "Of the three central NASCAR series The futrure of the Bush Series is the most under discussion, insiders insist. One possible fix: running cars that are completely different from the Cup cars, thus reducing the value of a Cup driver participate in a Saturday Bush race. A Ford executive admits his company would love to see the Mustang replace the Taurus - and next year, the Fusion - in the Busch Series, but recognizes that Chevrolet and Dodge have no direct coupe competitors for the Mustang. Yet, that is: Dodge is contemplating the return of the Challenger, built on a shortened Charger platform, and Chevrolet - frankly stunned at the sales success of the Mustang - has just revived a recently cancelled program that will support a next-generation Camaro. If the Busch Series runs a new and different car, all of its problems could be solved." I would love to see the Trans Am series go back to the original stock based formula and use these cars in their series. If anything this would make The Bush Series much more interesing to the fan and auto companies. Now I just hope they make them look lke the real cars and not what they have now. Take it for what it is worth, I just though it interesting.

Thanks for coming back Scott! I am very please your reading this site. You were not too harsh and just said what needed to be said. Sometime's some folks can get frustrated on this topic and need to be realed back in. Many here do not know you and have never read any of your post. I have reposted many of the things you have posted on other web sites and understand how you relay what info you can. I have tried explained how the puzzle pieces in time all fit and you tell us as much as you are allowed to tell. Some of what you read was folks that don't understand how you work and in many cases how GM and the auto industry work. In these days it not easy for many in the industry to even understand at times. If you might tell the ones here a little about yourself and keep us updated on what you able to post I believe you will be our greatest asset on this site. Thank you for being here and I look foward to your post here. If you write that book I will buy it as it is a very interesting story. For those on this site read his post and understand the gears are moving but move at their GM's pace for a reason. Things are good but never 100% till that first car rolls off the line. If Scott choses to post here you will be as informed as anyone on this side of the fence at GM. If you ask questions he will answer to the best of his ability but do not be upset is it is not always clear. He has a job to do and can not always paint a full picture at the time the question is asked. In time his replys all add up. He is one of us a car guy so treat him well.

Folks things are better now for what you want than ever. Positive feed back at all levels is needed at this point. Once Jan 8th arrives we need to push for what ever they give us as you may never get a second chance. This is a time to support people like the Fbodfather as he needs all of us to back him at this point and time. If we give Scott the ammo he will hit the target. Much of the complaining or bitterness that has been posted is not a benefit or help to bring a car back. Once the car appears it is up to us to help show our support and not complain on small details like too retro or not enough retro etc. We need to get this car to the market and Scott will see it will be taylored to the F body fans needs. So please keep it positive and Keep the Faith. If Scott is watching others will be watching too and we can't let him down as he has done more for this program than anyone. If you need to see evidence of Fbodfather drive for this car read page 82 of the Camaro Performer Magazine on news stands now. He is the kind of guy GM needs and we want incharge. If you can go to the Detroit Autoshow and let them know what you want [a Camaro] and if you can't make it to the show a positive e mail of support for the car to GM would be appreciated. If you want this to happen you need to make it happen. I can say I don't really think the big time F body fans are being invited to see a Aveo concept. Do you? So what do you say we kick some Mustang butt!!!!! Even with the base V6 too.

Welcome Fbodfather. I would like to thank you for your words and comments they were needed!!!!!! As for those here who still don't understand get off you high horse and get with the program as if you have been keeping the faith I know where you might have been on Jan 8th not where your going to be. Scott can only tell you what he can and gives you as much info as he is allowed. When he is able many of your questions will be answered so sit back and take a breath and learn. I hope the commnets made here will not prevent Scott from posting here as if you want to be the first to know you need him. For those who feel he is speaking to them he was and you many be the one that prevents the rest of us who believe and understand from the upcoming info. FBodfather I found the letter on a Camaro web site as well as most of any other info I post I knew it was accurate info. I hope posting it was not a problem as it was already on a web and it explaind how things were being done and it really was happening for those here that just don't get it. My name is Scott and I was lucky to be able to meet you in the past and know you a very stand up car guy and know what you say can be trusted. I will be in Detroit if the weather holds and see the car at the Show. I wish you luck and plead with you to please post here often to tone down the folks that don't have the faith. There are many here that do have the faith and would welcome you here the support would be welcomed. We need Scott he does not need us.

Fianlly someone dealing with reality vs most other reports! They did fail to mention the economic impact on our economy and miltary contract impact if GM fails. The goverment would bail them out on either account.

I will not say this is the Camaro front end but I get a feeling it has some elements of what we might see. The SEMA HHR carries the elements of Chevys new face. If you had not noticed it has a lot of SS Concept in it. It was noted a while back by someone at Chevy that the SS Concept carried many things we may see at Chevy in the future. I have nothing to back this up but would not be suprised if a few elements find there way to the 08 Malibu and Camaro Concept. As Scott has said none of the Camaro pictures have it right.

If you have not gone. GO! I have been to this a few times and had a great time. Show up early, go to the GTO's first. They will mark your wrist band so you can drive the Vette's and CTSv. By being early it gives you a good shot of getting two laps in the Vette. They will let you drive them very hard as long as your not stupid. We were getting oversteer off the corners. Next drive a truck so you can get your mark to hit the Hummers next. Thursdays the line are the shortest.