hyperv6

It is not what I say but the three wise men. guionM, Bob Lutz and Fbodfather, They will show you the truth in their post and public notes. If you want to know the Future of RWD at GM follow the words they post. Most of what I learn is available to anyone who has a computer and knows where to look and to whom for accurate info. It is not at Edmunds or Car and driver . com.

Sorry for the rant but I feel better now!

Folks it is time to wake up and realize the American press has no clue to what GM is doing!!!! GM RWD is being developed in the land down under and is farther along than many here realize. Even folks that work at GM here do not know what is all going on down under. So when they say programs are not approved and nothing is going on you might want to use some caution as the people connected to these cars are indicating different. The GTO is in the mix as well as a Camaro and 4 door sedans. Someone in Detroit keeps trying to say different and the press runs with it. Keep your eyes open for a Impala the will blow minds!!!! It is going to be like the Camaro, A little retro 60's with a lot of 21 century tech and updated styling. Like noted above GM does not change it's mind day to day. A lot of what we are hearing is stuff that was decided 6 months to a year ago. Also note that some of the known GM people in the know on the RWD platform read our post here and are not sure who some of the claimed insiders are and what the H&ll they are talking about in some of their post. Thank God for people like guionM, Lutz and Fbodfather who have been preaching the truth and time has proven them correct the vast majority of the time. Take a look at their post as they don't delete what they put on this site. Anyway I hope this puts the Firebird coming back to rest finally. The key people at GM had made it clear several times it is not in GM's best interest to do a Firebird in the forseeable future. Things are in the works and don't beleive everything you read in the press!! Most of us here should know that by now!!! Also if your going to follow post follow folks that are involved as they are you best scource of info your going to get. GM may have not worked like this before but they are now!

Here is some of what Bob had to say on the new Camaro. This was posted on the z28Camaro.com web site. "All of us are hoping (the Camaro) will be a production-approved program" in the very near future, said GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, adding that "We're all working on it as if it were an approved program." The "heritage" Camaro, which debuted in January, proved one of the most popular concepts at this year's Detroit auto show, but even as GM planners continue studying ways to craft a profitable business case, development work is moving ahead. "We're not wasting any time, said Lutz. "There is no reason to assume they would turn it down," he said of the GM board. Meanwhile, the automaker has revived the long-rumored Hummer H4 project. The Wrangler-sized vehicle was pulled from the GM schedule, Lutz confirmed, because the original "clean sheet of paper" approach, which was based on advanced, spaceframe technology, just wouldn't have been able to generate a profit. "A much more derivative approach" has now been adopted, though Lutz stressed that "it will still be a unique vehicle." As with the Camaro, GM's board has yet to give the go, though Lutz said he is "confident it will be" approved." I am not sure where this came from so take it for what it's worth.

The 2 door midsize market is as difficult a market their is today. Only mid level high end low volume car tend to do ok. The only exception is the Mustang but Pice and performance help sell it not luxury. The Pricing of the Camaro at Mustang levels is a must. I am suprised the Monte has hung on as long as it has but I think it's days may be numbered.

Too soon to lock the gate on the Goat yet!

As it has been said before by Fbodfather don't believe the press!!!!!!! Also they have the engines wrong so forget the 3.9 and I would guess the 6.2 might be the power of choice by the time the car is out. We will know soon enough. Word if the car will come much sooner than most think. Many at GM who really did not care about this car have seen the reaction at the Detroit show and are now pushing to see how much they car speed this car up. This car has gotten the attention of the people who run GM who don't understand cars for once. Much more is going on than we or even other inside GM know. This car is not going down regular channels! The Camaro it's self may not save GM but it may change the way many in GM veiw what people want and how to get it out quicker. I believe what is learned here on this program will make a differance in GM's future.

As Paul Harvey waould say. The Firebird is gone and not coming back! Page 2! Pontiac will have a 2 dorr RWD coupe not based on the Camaro. It will not be a Firebird and may or may not even be called a GTO but they will get a coupe in the future.

The present GTO was going to end no matter what. Why would GM put a lot of money advetising a car that was selling is so few numbers when money is tight. Pontiac would put the money in the cars they are selling in greater volume like the G6 anf GP. The present GTO was only a patch in the Pontiac line up by Lutz to buy time and to do it cheap and fast. The present GTO did it's job and if the new Mustang had not arrived when it did the GTO would have been even better recieved. There are new Pontiacs coming that will hit as well as the new Camaro did. In the end everything will work out.

You win the prize here for understanding the tone of the post!!!!! I think your statment sums. up what is going on the best. The post neither said the GTO was coming back or going away just the Bird clone is not in the mix. MY point was there will be a GTO or GTO lke car 2 door 4 door 3 door what ever it will be a V8 and RWD. That is and will be the main line Pontiac car what ever it is called. If anyone thinks Pontiac can live on G6 alone, good luck.

This was taken from a Canadian auto web site. Much of this matched what the Fbodfather has stated before. HOT CAMARO CONCEPT WILL BECOME A REALITY "It is now clear that the car that made the biggest waves at the Detroit auto show was the Camaro concept. It is now an open secret that it will be built. "Ever since the first day I got to General Motors I've been getting mail from Camaro owners, Camaro clubs, Camaro fanatics," Lutz said during the show. "It's like a cult following out there. "I've been telling them, just wait until the Detroit auto show. I think you'll be pleased. But most of the e-mails lately have been, 'Hey, you've been there four years already. Where's our Camaro?' " If the car goes into production, he said, "it would be priced right down with the Mustang." How much? "It will be an astonishing value." And there would be no -- repeat, no -- Pontiac version of the sporty two-door, Lutz said. That kind of badge engineering "is what got us in trouble in the first place," he said of GM's woes during an interview at the show. GM, Lutz said, suffers from "too many years of doing cars and trucks that were OK. We don't do that anymore. We do beyond OK." For instance, he said, look back at how GM bean-counters and product engineers mismanaged the original Camaro into well-deserved oblivion. "We got too far away from the original role of the car. It became too streamlined. The passenger compartment became too compromised. It became too expensive. It became too heavy. It became a car that just lost its way -- the same as the Ford Mustang did for awhile. "There was a time when all of the original pony cars got bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier and more and more expensive and suddenly nobody could afford them anymore." Bases on Lutz's commnets and other reports I expect the new GTO or GTO like car will not be playing pony car games. I expect a more 3 series type car as Pontiac has always wanted. Either way I am sorry the Bird is gone but there is just no need for it as GM does not need any more over laps in product if they can avoid it. The G5 may be the last badge engineered Pontiac overlap.

Here is Lutz on a Pontiac version of the Camaro. This backs up what cott S has stated on the Camaro site. The Bird id dead. If a new coupe comes it will be a GTO or a GTO like Coupe that would much different than the Camaro. HOT CAMARO CONCEPT WILL BECOME A REALITY It is now clear that the car that made the biggest waves at the Detroit auto show was the Camaro concept. It is now an open secret that it will be built. "Ever since the first day I got to General Motors I've been getting mail from Camaro owners, Camaro clubs, Camaro fanatics," Lutz said during the show. "It's like a cult following out there. "I've been telling them, just wait until the Detroit auto show. I think you'll be pleased. But most of the e-mails lately have been, 'Hey, you've been there four years already. Where's our Camaro?' " If the car goes into production, he said, "it would be priced right down with the Mustang." How much? "It will be an astonishing value." And there would be no -- repeat, no -- Pontiac version of the sporty two-door, Lutz said. That kind of badge engineering "is what got us in trouble in the first place," he said of GM's woes during an interview at the show. GM, Lutz said, suffers from "too many years of doing cars and trucks that were OK. We don't do that anymore. We do beyond OK." For instance, he said, look back at how GM bean-counters and product engineers mismanaged the original Camaro into well-deserved oblivion. "We got too far away from the original role of the car. It became too streamlined. The passenger compartment became too compromised. It became too expensive. It became too heavy. It became a car that just lost its way -- the same as the Ford Mustang did for awhile. "There was a time when all of the original pony cars got bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier and more and more expensive and suddenly nobody could afford them anymore." Just have to see what happens.

Well Fbodfather is the one that needs to be watched. His word is gold on this topic. You can bank on that!

Consider that work on this car did not just start last fall concept or not.

"One hot rumor: Camaro production was moved forward, from 2009 to 2008". That is all they give in details, I wish there was more.

If you don't like Edmunds date for the Camaro start reading AutoWeek. They are reporting in the Feb 20th issue that the 2009 Camaro has been moved up to 2008. I get the feeling info on this is so tight the press is reaching for any clue they can right now. Watch the Camaro web site and posts from Fbodfather for any additional clues. What clues he post do come together in time. They give no other details on the Camaro but they do outline the latest Bluedevil hints. Most of the same as we have been hearing 2900 pounds, $100,000 and supercharged. They did say 7.0 SC but they have been the only ones I have seen to make a 7.0 claim. For the folks that don't like the 08 Camaro date you can contact them at Autoweek.com.

I'm sorry I miss read your statement. Thank you for the reply.

You or I might be right you might be wrong. Either way the sun comes up tomarrow and life goes on. Sorry but I will trust info from someone know involved with the Camaro program vs yourself on this one. So Scott Settlemire does not know vehicle development? HMMM. Was one of your company cars a 4th gen Z06? Did you help develope the Sunoco Camaro show car . Have you overseen the Camaro program? I think he has a better clue on how things work or don't work as well as anyone here. If and when this car comes to market it will be in part to a few people good and Scott as they never let this drop from the time the car left production. You may be a well informed person from GM on many things. I have nothing personal but I do not know you and have not seen anything out of you to make me trust you over a publicly known person GM person involved with the car that told us don't believe the press on this one [Edmunds]. As for the 18-24 was an error. I have gone with as a guestimate of the fall of 08 and said the 18-24 was a mistake on my part in counting the months in a following post. This is my date not Scotts or anyone elses. This can be verified as I don't remove post like some here. I have my speculation based on info from two places. It might pan out it might not as GM is always in flux. I do this is for the fun of it, so if you agree or disagree that is fine but keep the kool aide comments to yourself they are uncalled for here. By the way you posted every day the don't anounce the program puts the car back 30 months? I asked for you to enlight us on this comment from early January. I really wanted to know if the days could be made up in some way oned it is anounced or at the rate you stated would we be looking at 2020 on this or later? Could you explain the philosophy on how this works? I asked a reasonable querstion here of you and you never replied. Nor will I make light of you. Even if we disagree we can still get along if you can be respectful.

Thanks for linking.

Scott and was the last offical GM manager of the F body program and looks to be in place to pick up in the same place in the new program. Besides he is not a engineer. Either way I think he is qualified to be trusted. If he says things are delayed I will believe him when he post it. It is easy to say something won't happen but it is much harder to say what is going to happen when it is confidetial. Keep that in mind. Either way I will feel better when the Delphi deal is done.

Well I did just find a response from Scott S Fbodfather on the Camaro web site. Here is his quote Scott Settlemire Quote: "Don't believe most of what you read in print in the media.......... trust me on this................ edit: They don't even have the powertrains right..........." When he says trust him you can! He is one of the key players so don't give up yet! Dont trust any of the nay sayers on this thread just trust Scott! I will watch for more of his post. There is a lot going on right now, I was not be given the details nor would press from my scouce. At this point nothing was negitive.

Please people take a deep breath and wait till Known GM scource involved with this program gives us the word. Look for post from Fbodfather for clues to what is going on. He is the only one that has posted on this web site on this topic that has been correct on what is going on. I know for a fact he knows more than anyone here or at Edmunds. Being a GM employee is not the same as working on the Camaro program, it will give you an edge. If he is able to post anything it will be first on the 5th gen section on the zc8camaro.come web site. I hope he will chime in here with some clues. Lets just say from what I heard in the last 5 days I would not throw in the towel yet though I know things can change quick. If it does change it may be for a very good reason. The Camaro will not save GM and some other things just might.

I would not put too much stock into to Edmunds time line yet. I have heard bettter news than this in the past 7 days from a trusted scource. I could not be told much yet but it was made clear delays were not a problem at least yet. It is true there is some minor reworking of the car and it is positive evidence they have been listening to the people in there likes and dislikes from what they are working on. So they are reading and listening. They know we want this car as soon as possible so that is one item you can save your breath on. I think we need to learn something here, before we find out the truth most times a lot of misinformation or misdirection appears in the press. Untill a Known someone speaks for GM don't get too excited or upset yet. After all of the wrong or misleading info of the last year most of us should know better by now. As for the Impala and the rest I have not heard anything. That looks promising if it could be trusted. The bottom line is no one wants this car than GM right now so they will get it here as soon as they are able. Keep in mind you saw the new 07 Tahoe in late 05 and able to buy it in early 06. MY means little right now at GM. So let just wait and see what GM shows or info it lets out in the near future before we jump to any conclutions.

4th gen SS was real! As it was on the WS6 too.

Not saying your wrong here, just quoting Pontiac and the local UAW Pres that were interviewed.