hyperv6

The Razor was lame and they should scap everything but the name. They should do a Copper Head roadster as it has been one of the best 2 seat concepts they have done. The only problem I see with that is it was very similar to the Solstice in many ways. But then again they both where Lutz cars. They had better work on price as the Crossfire was about $25,000 too high and you know what happend to that.

Now just wait one moment!!!!!!! We have got some serious issue to deal with here. I want to know are they still going to have the Saturn get together/picnic/Saturn love fest. And if so where is the party now that they are leaving Springhill. This is important now that Cool people will be there now not just a bunch oF Plastic Fetish, Pocket Protector, Bennie Baby, Tree Hugging, Needle Pointing, Trekkies. Hmmm, Could we see the first Saturn wet t shirt contest? Seriously I am glad to see how Saturn has turned around and it show the rest of us that Pontiac and Buick can be saved and we should at least let GM try to perform similar magic on them. If they could save Saturn the odds are good they might be able to do the same for them. I wonder what the feelings of many on this site that called for the death of Saturn two years ago. Bet they feel different now. With cars like these who needs plastic. Give the people what they really want a great car at a good price.

I was not speaking of the after hours deal. What I speak of was a media event before a show opened that I attended last year. The Philly event looks like they are taking this to the next level though. They put us on TV with the 09 Concept. But we did not get Welborn or Bob Jovi!

I have been to one of these before and had a great time. If you are in the area go! Scott throws great get togethers.

Could 07 be the end of the Monte? There was no Monte on the floor of the Detroit show which I thought was strange for a car still being built for a short time linger. They did have one GXP.

Don't have anything to back this up . But the Sydney paper has a good artical on the Camaro and some of what is going on. Here is the most intersting part. Sydney Times Herald: How Holden will shape the next Camaro This may seem hard to believe but the finishing touches to the next Camaro are being done at Holden in Melbourne. A team of US designers and engineers have joined their Holden colleagues to transform the concept car into a reality. Early prototypes have already begun testing on Melbourne roads but they're disguised as Commodores. Just before Christmas, Holden's engineering division completed the first "body in white" - in layman's terms, the first body built to production specifications. Disguised handbuilt prototypes of cars that look like the Camaro will be on Melbourne roads within the next few months. Some will be sent to the US for testing as well. Production in Canada is due to start early next year and we should see the Camaro in Australia by the end of 2008. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New versus old General Motors' head of global design, Ed Welburn, brought his 1969 Camaro into the company's styling studios in Detroit so his team could use it as a reference when designing the new one. Here, designer Micah Jones explains why the new Camaro looks the way it does. "When we got word we were going to do a Camaro concept we were all pretty excited. We really had to think about what sort of heritage we wanted to have in this car. Ignoring Camaro's heritage would just be a huge mistake. We looked back at previous generations and tried to define the most iconic models and ultimately the original 1969 Camaro was selected because of its very pure lines, great stance and it was simple. "The 1969 Camaro was also the inspiration for the interior as well. "The goal for the Camaro was to interpret the design in a contemporary way and express the fact it's a rear-wheel-drive performance car. You see that a lot of the lines on it shoot back and send a lot of drama and a lot of motion back to the corner and explode onto the back wheels. It's what we like to call the Camaro corner. It's a really identifiable piece of design on this car, it's where all the angles come together. "The shifter is a nice touch, which has been inspired by the heavy-duty Hurst shifters of the muscle-car era. It's got a polished chrome cap and a ball on the end of it. Pretty simple and pretty strong and purposeful. We've modernised it in the way it's been put together and the general execution. "We're particularly proud of the general spirit of the car. It has a tremendous amount of personality. The front has a real menacing look to it. "Tom Peters, the director of the Camaro's exterior design, told his design team to draw the meanest street dog you could possible draw. He was going for a really growling look to it. I overhead him talking one day while the car was being designed. He said: 'The car's coming along real good, it's starting to look like a growling doberman pinscher.' I thought that just nailed it on the head." It's also likely to be sold in Australia. Officially, Holden is being coy about whether the Camaro will be made in right-hand-drive, let alone sold locally. But at the Detroit motor show last week, senior Holden officials were talking as if it were coming. And they have been for some time now. When asked whether or not the Camaro would wear a Holden or a Chevrolet badge (or even be called a Monaro, as some have wondered), Holden's straight-shooting boss, Denny Mooney, quickly responded: "Oh, it'll have a Chevrolet badge and it'll be called Camaro. People in Australia know what this car is. You only have to look at the muscle car magazines to see the interest in the classic Camaros." These were the highlights of the story, the rest was about driving the show car. I am not sure how to link this but this is where the whole story can be found. http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/conceptcar...9330815418.html Can't say if anything here is true and we can argue about this till the car is in the show room. But I have found some of the most reliable info has coming from Austrailia press and web sites [go figure]. Most Detroit people involved look to be working a warm winter down under. The trucks came early so will the Camaro too? We will just have to watch and wait a little longer. I figure we will be close when the car is seen at the Ring in Germany for tuning.

Yes that was my thought. It most likley is a miss print but Crain publications are seldom wrong. Since they are Detroit based and weekly publications are up to date and most likley on the mark. My guess was if this was right that the Sky would get a base 205 HP SC engine since it is leaving the Cobalt next year. This would give them a better base than Pontiac make them a little more different.

Much of what has gone on in the auto industy is not much different than what we have seen in in the rubber industry here in Akron. We have seen Greenmail buy corperate raders in Sir John Goldsmith in his raiding of Goodyear. We have had buy outs of Firestone [Japan] BFG [French] and General [Germans]. We had poor product the Firestone 500 and 721 problems and the latest with their off road tires. The others have had their own problems too. We have and to a lesser degree Union problems but they now realize they are now competing with a world work force. In the latest strike with Goodyear they USW talked big and finally caved when they were running out of money and had to start paying their own health care. The URW is dead due to the lack of membership and are now covered by the Steel [or steal] workers union. We had over capacity of production and old unprofitable lines. We had companies that core business was tires but they were building oil pipe lines. They failed to address the core product and keep it updated. We had companies making OE tires that paid very litte if anything [the rubber industries version of fleet sales in the auto industry] Here in Akron labor was offered new plants if they would go to a 8 hour day. Tire builders went to a 6 hour day in the depression. The companies employed 4 shifts of 6 hours to help with unemployment. In the 70 the workers were still doing 6 hour days and getting 8 hours of wages. They turned down the offer and the plants moved to non union plant that were built. The UAW closed due to the lack of members. Some today will claim the offer was never made, well it was and it set the future of the rubber industry only followed with mismanagment and poor planning by some of the later CEO's and managers. I can go on. My point is what has happened to the Auto indutry is not much different than in many other industries. We have had greed on both sides of the ball and got away with it and inefficent production on poor quality products. When we just had to compete with our selves it was not an issue but now we have overseas vcompanies that can do things much cheaper and to acceptable levels of quality that meets or beats our best in many areas. The overseas companies have many advantages for various reasons but one they have we don't is paying for a aging retired work force in this country. Toyota is here because it is cheaper for them to build here and can because they have no retired workers. As for the goverment it has and still is controled by many who get what they pay for. With the number of people lobbying in DC you can about buy what you want and the Automakers are not paying as much as other are now. Money comes in from legitimate US concerns but is funneled in from other countries and other people who want to beat us and take our hold of the MFG good we still have. Well anyhow this is only a small part of what is going on but it all comes down to greed by buisness and the work force. Eveyone wants to be a Multi millionaire but no one wants to pay for it. In time the companies from the far east will fall victim to the same things we have just we may nat be in any shape to take advantage of it by then. Anyway we have one company here that was on the brink but is now moving back to profits again. Goodyear is the only one of the Akron base companies that is American owned. They now have a CEO that has taken some hits for making some tough choices. Now that things are working he is looking much better to share holders. Many of the workers yet are not happy but many will have jobs because of what he is doing today that would not have had a company in a few years without change. GM is looking at the latest agreement with Goodyear and the USW. If they can work a similar agreement on health care and retirment benifits it will save GM Billions and provide capital to make changes faster and help save the company. Everone complains why it take so long to make new models and lines. Well GM has to find the money and pay for it. This will provide capital in a much safer way than Ford. Ford is betting the house with their 18 Billion in collateral on thier loans with company assets. If they fail to make winning cars the Ford compay will be owned by someone other than a Ford and be a much different company. GM has a ways to go but are progressing and have gained more in the last couple years vs the last 30. Just be greatful they are not Ford and down to their last chip as the odds are not good if they fail with new product. I like to think I have a somewhat balanced view of the rubber industry problems since I have family on both sides in managment and labor. I have seen a great need for the union to return to it's roots and protect the worker fairly but not get greedy. I also see a need for companies to be managed well and make the core product a priority with up to date technology, efficency and quality. If they both can work together they can deliver a quality product at a fair price. It is easy to see what is wrong and know how to fix it vs getting all parties to work together for the common good. If someone can find this solution, they will have something that would rate right with a cure for cancer.

They are replacing the GP and Bonnie with this car. I see the G6 changing and moving up with some new models coming in. I really expect RWD and AWD will be the norm at Pontiac witrh only a small FWD being offered later. A lot depends on a Small RWD platform for a new Kappa and sedan. If approved they is so much they could do with this.

I think you under estimate a future sport option being offered. Chevy have always offered a F41 package and they still have better engines yet that can be put in. There is a lot that can and will be done here with this new car. The we have just recieved is the start and is aimed at the larger market as a whole. The nissan is just a small part of the big picture. If Chevy can win sales and match Toyota and Honda they have done what they need to do in this first gen of this changed car. The next car not only needs to meet them but lead the market. By then I would hope GM will hav even better engines and bit to make this the best value car on the market. This is not a car that is going to be a poster on sonones wall but a car that many non enthusiast will buy because of reliablility and value as that is why when you look around you ave a Camry on every street cornner. The Nissan is better in many ways but it is not what the market as whole is looking for. Saturn will pick up the sales there as will a new imporved G6 when it is time. GM has the advantage of several divisions to win overal sales they don't have to do it all with one car. If there going to keep the divisions then use em! Bottom line on this car is it will sell and do well. So far far the press likes it and have rated it sister Aura as being competitive in the market. These are factors GM never had with the last car. This car will be like the HHR a good triple but not a home run. I will take a few triples and win the game after years of 3 up 3 down and out. As for AWD Impala's Just how many AWD Chrylsers and Dodges are selling? I see a market but it is not a priority as the market is so small. Cost is such a factor with Chevy an AWD option on a small market is better left to a more expensive Pontiac or Buick.

I picked up a Crain publication at Cobo this week. It had a listing of cars and SUV's with comments on them. It had a note on the Sky and highlighted the turbo 260 engine as being available and other comments. What I did note is it stated in the future a Superchared engine is coming? Does anyone have any idea of what this would be? Could it be a new 205 HP base engine or the talked about 300 HP Ecotech that I expected as a turbo? I have not heard or seen anything on a supercharged engine since before the turbo was anounced. I also know GM is going to put the Turbo in the HHR and Cobalt so would this free up the Supercharged engine as a base unit in the Sky?

Now that I have seen the car in person I really don't like it. I never really ever liked the G6 sedan either. But to be fair though I don't like it I saw many more cars I dislike more at Detroit. I don't expect this car to be around for a real long time as Pontiac's future is just getting ready to start in a few weeks. The G8 is only the first of many changes.

After seeing this car in person I feel it will do very well for Chevy and will be in the gave with the Accord and Camry. This class of car is not for enthusiast and many here look at cars like this and expect too much. The kind of people that buy cars like this are people going from point A to B and want to know they can do it with reliability and a resonable price. If the reliability of this car holds as I hope they will sell a lot of these cars. GM is not going to take the lead from the Camry with this car but they wil gain a lot of ground with it if everything goes as planned. You have to walk before you run and that means Chevy has to prove this is a great reliable car and just work to regain market share in this class. Reputations are earned not bought or styled. If looking odd or plain was a major problem in this class the Camry would not be selling so many car [or do all of you think the Camry is a stunningly styled car?]. Also few connect the name Malibu to the old Chevelle Option anymore as it has been a small car nearly as long as it was a Chevelle. Chevy will make progress with this car over the past model so it will be important to build a great reputation with this car. A new reputation for reliability and dependibility will sell more cars than styling in this class. They you sell it well optioned for 21-25K your going to move cars. Bottom line this car will much better than the last and will be competitive with the Camry and Accord. Time will prove this out in this appliance class of car. You just can't look at this class of car as a auto enthusiast as you will never be happy as a average joe who just wants to get to work and home 5 days a week and does not care if he stands out in a crowd. These are not ego car and never will be. If you want to be seen buy a Camaro.

You are 100% correct on killing of the GM 80 was the FWD and V6. Pontiac was banking on the GM 80 and got burned when it was canceled because of the change back to RWD. This left the plant open and the Fiero open for attack and gave those who did not want the Fiero ammo to point out the plant was way under capacity with no model that could share the line with the Fiero. The GM 80 died because of FWD and was not done to kill the Fiero. It was after the GM 80 was killed that it left the plant well under capacity and people who hated the Fiero a chance to point out a new costly reason to kill the car. Bottom line the GM 80was not killed to kill the Fiero but its effect created a reason to kill it after the fact.

Well according to Mr Settlemire the engine in the Camaro has not been seen yet so we can not and will not know what V8 it will have when we have not seen the engine yet. He has already said it is not a LS2 based engine. So don't get too excited and stay tuned we will now more in the near future. Also since Scott knows more than anyone here about the new Camaro. He also has indicated that we will see the higher performance engine after the intro. Check out The Fbodfathers post on Camaroz28.com. This will be the most accurate up to date info anyone has on this topic. Anyone giving more would be in risk of losing their job at GM.

No what was cool was to see Arnie Bestwick do the Norwalk 1/4 mile in this car just after it was restored a few years ago with the owner in the passenger seat. Too bad the owner did not live longer to better enjoy all of these cars. The widow sold all of these cars after trying to keep them show them for a few years after his loss. I have seen them and they were well restored and like new.

Well before the Lutz bashers and lovers get into to much of a tizzy. Autoblog who reeported this yesterday stands corrected as now claims Lutz is not going anywhere. Until GM or Max Bob says it himself don't get too excited. No he did not start the arts and science styling. But he is cleaning it up with cars like the 08 CTS. Also he is the main pusher of getting GM to put much better interior in their car. The bigger tire and better fender to wheel clearance is part of his insite he lays on his design staff it is his trade mark. It is the little things that change a cars look and appearance. Thes detail can change a car from looking like a rental fleet base car to a high price car of quality. Things like this were changed on Lutz's watch and all contribute to the public preception of GM cars. Take the Saturn Aura vs G6. They are on the same platform but the Aura has people raving over it vs the G6 had the details that were mostly in place before Bob. Bob is not going to save GM on his own and yes they can find some to replace him when the time comes. But he should get some credit as he has contributed well to GM and they are much better off with him than if he never came. Right now GM has a lot of good tallented people in place to carry the moment they have now.

I got this from a friend from down under. He is a Pontiac owner and loves american cars. I did ask if he had any phots to send and if I get them I will post. Otherwise start watching as they are being seen. Aus quote "I wouldn't exactly call them Pontiac "upgrades" as the SS is pretty much being introduced as is but with Pontiac badging and cosmetic changes. Call them something more like modifications or Pontiacisation. It is a nice looking car. It is splattered all over the motoring press here. On the Camaro, it will be using the same platform and the pics we are seeing of it over here show it to be pretty true to the concept. They are looking at releasing it here as well as the new Monaro"

Does he like to Carl or Peter or just Pete? No really I expect much of Lutz's influence to still be with GM for 4-5 years after he moves on. It took 5 years to see what he was working on to start to it is only fair to give him credit for the 5 years after. I also suspect he my be retained as an adviser or consultant on some projects that he has started. I don't see him baking in the Florida sun doing nothing auto related. I also suspect he may have helped in picking the person to replace him. So we may be in good hands as long as this guy does not make his own DR Z like comercials.

Does it really matter as we will have complainers no matter what. Pontiac just needs to do what they have to do and people will get used to it as it will not be a total failure despite what some feel. The only thing worse than a car designed by committee is one designed by uncertain public opinion. Pontiac may have had a Aztec or two but what car company hasn't. We just need to sit back and trust Lutz on this as he has only a few mistakes in his long time in the industry. Many of the mistakes were not all of his doing either. Lack of money at GM and Chrylser played a bigger part. I feel it is safe you will see sheet metal and some interior changes. Not all will be pleased but what could they do to please all as most Pontiac fans can't agree on what they want.

Good news for us but this would suck for the guy with 003.

First off you better not get too quick to write off the gauges as reports have them being invcluded as a option. They are still in this years show car with a 90% production interior. Second these cars are not race cars so the liberty of using them down there is not as big of an issue when used with a red light to check gauges. If it was that critical they would put the red line at 12:00 o clock. Third this car is not going to be a fly weight as you can not have light with affordable. GM has to have a 5 star crash rating on this car or the insurance copmpanies will kill it. To get light and strong you need a lot of Alumnium, composits and magnesium would raise the price of the car far from affordable. The price of the blue deviel will be driven by the heavy use of compsits to lower the price not he 650 hp engine. Moderate weight, safe, powerful, affordable great handling and fast is what your going to get like it or not. The original Camaro was no light weight either and it did well for its self. Hud has been discussed by GM people throwing out ideas and I would not be suprised to see it in the High end model but not in the base and V6.

Word on NHRA forums is the Camaro will replace the Cobalt as the choice in NHRA's Pro Stock Division. We may be seeing a AC Delco Kurt Johnson Camaro as soon as late next year. [in testing] Keep in mind These cars are now carbon fibered bodied cars so no sheet metal is needed. This is the first indication GM has a motorsports program started for the new Camaro. The question is where else will it show up. IMSA, SCCA, NASCAR ???? NASCAR is looking to the Pony cars as replacments for the cars now used. they want them to be different from the Cup Cars. The BUSH series is getting a new sponsore in 2008 and this would be a good time to bring in a new car. Sorry no word on the GTO yet. My Work backs two GTO's in Pro Stock but no one has said what they wheel so I expect the GTO will go at least one more year till Pontiac has a new Coupe in 08.

Besides no one complains about a Canadian built Camaro but I sure there will be a small goup that would pitch a fit over on built down under out of the same parts. It may not be American built but North American leave little for the petty people to complain about.