hyperv6

The last GM offical I heard say anything said it was about the smae length and jsut a little wider than the present car. That was before the G8 appeared and it is that same size. No the in in the sheet metal as it is all new. it is to have elements of a 63 and 67 Impala including six tail ights. It will share drivetrain parts with the Camaro. Other than that they are very garded yet on any details.

Chris most of us understand and know what you mean. I would just let it go and time will tell. I know Settlemire has stated price is king on this and it needs to be right. He has even asked people how important is the smell of leather is to many in a car as it add to the cost. The smell of the leather is a added feature they pay extra to add to a car as it is not a natural smell. They are counting pennies not dollars to keep the cost down and competitive with the Mustang. At this point anything that can save a dime and not hurt the overall quality of the car is on the table. I think if more of those upset would recall much of Fbodfathers statments from the last 2 years they would understand why you said what you did. The Pillar is like some being upset that there is no plan to sell a stripper car. While may say they want one it really does not lower sales if you don't make one. Most people will buy regardless and if it helps the bottom line it will be looked at. There is no right or wrong here so lets just wait to see what we get and we are going to just have to live with it if the pillar is there.

Everyone need to take a risk and relax. I said when the hold was put on the Zeta it was only a hald and not to get too carried away. The Camaro was on a hold too and it is still on line to come. GM needs to adjust the drivetrains to better fit new rules and that is all. At this point I expect to see more V6 engine options and more use of Hybrid and deisel offerings. Keep in mind we have some V6 engines coming we have not seen and will have more power than already offered by the CTS caddy 3.6 DI. By the way no SC or Turbo used. So if we have more RWD 300+ HP sedans vs 430 HP sedans I can live with that. If I have a Impala with a 320 HP engine getting near 40 MPG highway I can live with that. How long ago we were just glad to have a 125 HP V6 Eurosport? None of this is the end of the world and if GM needs one extra year to make a better car then lets do it! How often have they given us something that should have waited a year. As reported the delay will be supported by the present Impala that is making money so thei will not harm GM in dollars as it could. Besides if the present Impala is selling 250,000 cars a year with most of the tooling paid for it is a gold rush that even the new Impala could not top in profit figures for a while till it's tooling is paid for. Besides this delay may bring us a little more inovation than originally planned in the drivetrain department. GM may reap more benifit by pressing more world leading technology into their car now than later vs much of Toyotas alleged technology we have seen.

The drivetrain in the HHR is coming to the Cobalt and has been in the works for a while. Settlemire on Z28C has said good thing come to those who wait. 260 HP engine is going into wider use and it has been said in the past that a 300 HP was in the future/ They have already shown streetable 320 in the Kappas. It won't tear the car appart but like most of ther FWD with high HP it is not a comfortable car at the limit without electric counter measures. It is time to realize that 250 HP is fast becoming the norm for many FWD coupes and Sedans. 300 HP is the next level and we are now just seeing that even at GM in the W bodies. We will see more in the future out of the V6 engines and power we once only thought you could get with V8's Superchargers and Turbos from NA engines. Don't be suprised if they find their way into the Zeta line if gas keeps high as it will add to their milage and keep sales up with good performance. As for the Cobalt RS lets just really kill it and call it a Z24.

Lets see here are you options to keep no pillar. Option 1: 4200 LBS and we all complain Option 2: $45,000 for the base V6 once they add all the aluminum to lose the weight and we all complain. Option 3: No Camaro at all and we all complain. Option 4: Drink a beer, still buy one and just get over it. As it is just a stinking pillar not the end of the world and if any one complains we kick them in the jewels to take their mind off of it. I was expection a pillar and a lot of crying when it is first seen. To me the pillar is easier to deal with than all the petty pissing and moaning. If you don't like the pillar just buy the Convertible. It could have been worse, the convert could have had a basket handle roll bar of a Cutlass on it..........................

I tag helmet laws and seat belts for the blaime. Before the heard was thinned by the lack of forced safety law. Safety laws just permit those of the human race to live that would have died by being thrown clear in the past. Lord knows we could use a little more room today. All the good talent is designing video games as there is more money in it and you can start when your 14 years old then own your own corperation by 21 years.

The only problem is this picture is from so far back that what ever it is may not even be close to what is proposed. The Camaro here was a proposal I had heard about and had changed 2-3 time before the final concept. But you never know what they might have kept.

It is and it was placed to only let you see what they wanted you to see. GM knows what they were doing here and they were just letting you know this car was not going to change much like the G6 or other cars. In other words they were sending a message, did you get it?

The car looks a foot narrower too...................... Just kidding. The headlight is different and the parking light between the headlight and Fender looks to be gone? From what we can see which is not a lot it really does not look a lot different. I do expect to see things like the front valance to be rasied a bit to clear curbs and other small changes like they did in the Solstice. Most will never know most of the changes with out both cars side by side is what I expect. I think the details on this car will be much easier to sort out as the SSR was never designed with production in mind and the Solstice was really a long shot of ever making production. they has to make things work in areas never considered when it was designed. As for the Camaro the idea of production was there all along by the final design concept. The Mirrors interior and wheels were the only things a bit on the show side. But even with a redesign the interior will carry many styling cues from the Concept.

The car looks a foot narrower too...................... Just kidding. From what we can see which is not a lot it really does not look a lot different. I think the lighting in the photo and the clay color has more to do with the lights than anything. They really look the same as I saw on both concepts I have seen to me. I think the details on this car will be much easier to sort out as the SSR was never designed with production in mind and the Solstice was really a long shot of ever making production. they has to make things work in areas never considered when it was designed. As for the Camaro the idea of production was there all along by the final design concept. The Mirrors interior and wheels were the only things a bit on the show side. But even with a redesign the interior will carry many styling cues from the Concept.

I think they were just letting us know things are going to be very close to the concpet as vs some past efforts. I think we are going to be Solstice and SSR close. If so I hope they get the detail a little better. The Solstice roof is just not quite right and to adjust the seats in a SSR you need to open the door.

Please note the exahust option from the Z06 will be 436 HP.

I never said they drove without them. My point is Ohio offers MFG plates but does KY? If not they may have offered a dealer plates to GM to use there. I do not know what Toyota and Ford used at their KY plants. Could someone fill us in on their plates?

GM for some reason the factory uses dealer plates on cars from the factory. I first saw it in a story about a guy from the factory that gets paid to audit one out of how ever many Vettes on the local roads and looks for defects and build quality. The cars he drove all had KY dealer plates. If I recall correctly it was mentioned in the story about the plates but I can't for sure recall what the reason was. The factory also has a working relationship with a local dealer for the Museum Delivery cars. They are offically delivered throught the dealer since GM can not sell direct to the buyer. I don't know the details on KY laws or arrangments GM may have but I have seen this before so it is very possible for a Corvette Factory car to have dealer plates. Besides we have heard of 430 HP for a long time and expect no less from what I have heard. I just wonder it the LS3 will get the pre intro bump in power that GM is giving to most of the new engines at release. For all we know it could be 440 HP by release.

No news here and we all knew it was coming. It is here and done now time to get back to work. This is not just about the NA market or japan market and GM now knows this and is gearing up to fight it on a global scale. Why do you think we have Pontiac's from Austrailia, Saturns from Europe Korean Chevys in Europe and Buicks in China. GM is doing the right thing and finally going global with most of their platforms after so many false starts. Chrysler and Ford have still to make a big move to this concept and will pay the price for each day they don't. GM is in a place to be a player in the market of the future. As of now Ford has yet to embrace their products from down under or Europe out side their own markets and Chrysler is going to lose the Daimler connection and has a future with a parts supplier that will have to find a dance partner to survive. In the the big picture this will remove a lot of the pressure off of GM byt the Media and others and let them get on with their rebuilding. Lets just be greatful the rebuilding started when it did as if it started now it would really be a very sad day as it would be the begining of the end. China will be a big player in all of this as Japan will never be as strong there due to the hate and mistrust in China od Japan. Next the big fight will be the Indian market as it is about to explode.

GM for a few years has used dealer plates on factory cars in KY. I saw a story a few years back how they pay a guy to take one out of however many cars to audit and test it on the roads around the plant. It used dealer plates too. GM also has some agreement with the local dealer in the area that they do the museum delivery program through. Those cars are moved with dealer plates too. I have only noted this on the cars out of the Vette/XLR plant, might be a KY thing?

I think your going to find that the program HOLD is just that. Dive train packaging and weight loss is what will be adjusted on the Zeta. A little less weight and a new DOHC 320 HP V6 with DOD would solve much of any problems on Fuel milage. Besides the Zeta is not going to be the real high volume car the G6 replacment will be and that same six in a smaller RWD car would be great.

With a focus group meeting next month it is wise to assume that there are some Camaro body cars around. Also It is wise to assume they will have something on hand to show the kind people of the group and get some opinions on it. Did anyone note that LS3 is now reported at 430 HP? Good bet that is the engine that will be in the mid range SS. One more suprise I think may be on the way and it won't be a V8. Keep your eyes open!

When are some going to understand some of the most popular cars are not the most radical designs? BMW styling got a little to the edge with Chris Bangles designs and many BMW fans rejected them. Even the BMW leaders made him tone them down due to there dislike. He was promoted to get him out of the way. If you note the new designs just starting to show up are modern but going back to a more traditional look. Camry's are plain, Nissans are plain looking helmets, Hondas look like old Saturns, Mercedes are hit or miss on the styling, VW is plain, Lexus looks like a Mercedes, Audi looks looks like a fance VW. Only the itallian designs look very good and that is only on some of their car. The fact is most people want a taseful car and all do not want a circus wagon. The G8 is as good or better than most cars on the market. If you push it like Cadillac it is either love hate and Pontiac is not in a place they need to push it yet. Beside the only G8 any one has seen is a base model or GT which are not the fancy ones. The G8 is coming and will pack some cues that will spice it up more. As of now all the Pontiac we have I agree the GTO, G8 and Solstice are the only ones worth keeping. The G6, G5 and GP are just good rental fleet fodder. If you want to be taken seriously in the class Pontiac needs to be in you do not let your cars show up on the Enterprise lot. The real distressing thing is just under half of the Pontiac cars are going to rental fleets. Sooner the trucks and cross overs are dumped or moved to GMC the better. many may not agree with letting Pontiac fill a niche but what they are doing now is not working and if they shadow Chevy they never will make it and only hurt Chevy too. Chevy and Pontiac offerings need to be night and day. The G5 and G6 fail to do this and the GP is a old car needing retirement as they have gotten everything out of it. The time has come for Pontiac to be a smaller brand with it's own identity and its own cars. If they have to use Holden and other overseas GM brands so be it. This is the real world and Pontiac is never going to please everyone but they need to please more than they are now. If they can offer a good quality product and make a buck doing it, it is time to do it. Pontiac could do much worse than sell the G8 as we have seen them do for the last 20 years of Sunbirds, Korean Lemans, G body Lemans/Bonnevilles, Sunfires, J6000, T1000, Iron Duke Firebirds, etc. The only FWD GM has that is worth being a Pontiac is already a Saturn. The G8 is only a first step as the CTS Cadillac was the first step for them. Give them time to walk! A good slogan for Pontiac is "Real Divers Cars Do not Pull Right". And don't say they don't As I have owned some of the Best Pontiac FWD and driven the GXP Bonnie and GP. They have controled steering better but they will never get the pull out out They were all good cars but today they need better.

I still feel styling and price would have not been a big issue with the general public if the Mustang has not arrived when it did. Also dealer mark up did stop me from buying as I will not pay over sticker and I have no issue with styling. Last week I looked at a 06 Six speed and it is at the price I would have paid two years ago but with it out of production, I hate to buy an old car. I am now willing to wait for a new Pontiac or Camaro. Like it or not this car was more Pontiac than anything they have built or I have owned in year. I thill think the inteiror was onw of the best quality ever done. If my GP had one like this It may be a car that ewas still viable.

Gee the LX4, Holden and Park Ave are sold in 3 different markets so what over lap do you see in any one country with these models? In this country if things hold as planned the G8, Impala with different sheet metal, the Camaro with differnet sheet metal and wheel base Or a possible Manaro coupe with a different wheel base are all Zetas and will share nothing but Mechanical bits in NA. If they want to bring the Holden in as a Buick more power to them as it shares little with the G8 in sheet metal. The Aura is not sporty as they have not offered a Spory version yet. Wait till a Red Line edition comes before you dis this car. For the money it would take to fix the G6 they may as well start over and if they do make it different from the Chevy and Saturn. Sahre it with only Caddy or another overseas GM nameplate like Saab. As for models GM is not going to rebuild Pontiac in a year or two. Keep in mind Cadillac is still rebuilding with each new model. It takes a lot of money and time to rebuild a car line. As for the dealers it is either combine or die time as GM has no need for that many dealers and the weakest will die a painful death if they don't act. Could the lack of product at Buick be part of the goal to kell off the weak dealers?

Well I can't say this is one but this is how they would do one if they are testing at this point. GM does some of the best rebodies to hide new cars. Like the Camaro Vette from a few years back. The only other car I could see this being is a Holden Coupe under a Sedan body? Camaro or Holden odds its a coupe.

You can toss out all the numbers you like but Pontiac as it is is failing. Untill you provide thme with better and different cars then Chevy of Saturn they will fail. I you thing the G6 is a great car and would save Pontiac alone you had better think again as the bollm is already off that flower. The days of just revamping a Chevy base platform are over. People will pay more for a better car if you would provide it the reason they won't now is the cars they provide now are not worth the extra money. Few people will pay a $10k premium for a car they can go to a Chevy dealer and buy for much less. Other than Cladding and a red dash there has been little to draw non Pontiac fans in. People complain about the GTO but the G6 styling is the pits. The coupe is ok but the sedan is to narrow and has too much of a Neon look. I believe Cadillac has already proven that if you make a better car people will buy and pay more for the vehicle. Cadillac also makes more per car and sells less than they did in the darker days. If Pontiac tries to stay a high volume dealer they will fail as it is already a crowded maket. GM is already covering it well with two divisions and does not need a third to drain sales from the other two. I think it is plain to see GM is going to chang Pontiac and Buick and they also realize they have to change them. The last time I shopped I shopped Chevy and Pontiac and the reason I bought the Pontiac was they were willing to discount the car more then Chevy. Also there Supercharged engine was the Series III 3800 SC. If Pontiac dealers have to live on discounted upgraded Chevy platforms they will die even faster. FWD or RWD Pontiac needs to have better cars to live. I would have gladly paid 10K more for a better Pontiac it they offered it. I think many others would too if they could just get the cars that are not offered. G5 Is nothing but a Cobalt G6 Is nothing but a older Malibu/Aura that both will offer Sport editions soon for thsoe who don't think they are sporty enough. The two door helps make it different but coupe sales are in the tank in general. The car was over priced for what it is. The GP dies, It did it's job but it's best days are over and time to catch up with the rest of the industy. Pontiac has no place selling Mini vans and or cross overs. they are not Excitment. This is GMC's job at this dealer. The Vibe is nothing but a Toyota and not well accepted by most GM buyers and forggoten by Toyota buyers. The red headed step child. The G8 is the first step of Pontiac being different and offering a better car. It is a pattern of what we should see more of. The Solstice also is a good pattern of being different and I only pray that we see no more Kappa's in the US market as it is ok to share with Saturn but never let it also become a Chevy. Only two Kappas for NA market please. Get Pontiac to be more than a badge engineered line with better use of Holdens and other cars not offered in NA by other divisions. It would get then a better image, better cars and differnt cars. Even the other Zeta's will be different wheel bases and trim so what they will share here is not just a rebadge and that is key. Please no rebadge of the Camaro as a Bird please! Pontiac has to do better with a proper longer coupe.

As for changes on the Devil SS are still up in the air. I have heard the comment to expect it to be more of a road going C6-R. I also would expect a few things like less weight More or all carbon body parts Bigger Brakes and tires More extreme suspention tuning or tricks Much better aero managment at the speeds this car can and will do it is important to channel the air not only over but around and under the car. Could this be the first Vette with a under tray? Vent in the hood? adjustable wing? Not for looks but real world stability. Upgraded engine managment package to control the engine under acceleration. You have got to get it to bite to be fast. Also not break. Anyway these are things I am speculating to in some form.

I agree with having a FWD like the Mazda at GM but that's what Saturn is targeting with their new products. Keep in mind we have not seen the Red Line Aura and other new models like the Astra yet. A quality pemieum FWD with Euro flair is Saturns new mission. If this car was done as a Pontiac it would be a warmed over Cobalt or what ever they have at that time. I think the G5 is a nice car but not really much different from the Chevy to capture that many sales. Since Saturn already has the Opel version I would not expect Pontiac to get one of theirs. Either way sales are so small on G5 that it does not earn enough funding to make it a car of its own. Now if you could rebody a Saab as a Pontiac with a Saab engine we might be onto something. I love the G5 over the Cobalt but Chevy sells more so Chevy get priority and Pontiac will get the leftovers every time. If Pontiac is to live it needs to be different RWD of even a FWD. Give someone a reason to buy other than a redone nose and wheels.