hyperv6

Here is Fbodfathers reply to the photo we have here. Fbod posted: No Camaro 4 - door. Period. For your consideration: The C5 Corvette was developed using, among other things "CORMAROS" -- which were C5 chassis and drive trains underneath a Camaro body. (there's one on display now and then at the National Corvette Museum) We are certainly not going to put a Camaro out there to do early testing where you can actually see the car. (that would give the competition too much info....) So, sometimes we'll disguise the test mule. I'm not saying what you saw was a test mule for Camaro - -but what I am saying is that sometimes, there are test mules right under your nose -- and you completely miss them!

On the contrary there may fewer Pontiac fans than ever. Pontiac started to lose many in 1979 with the last V8. then they killed of many more fans with a Le Mans/ Bonneville. Add to that a large selection of FWD and too few RWD cars. At this point it can be said Pontiac is lost a Generation. There are many who have been born in the 70's and later that have no recall or love for the old Pontiac that some want to reclaim. We also now have too many that have not seen a Pontiac that they would want for near 28 years that do remember the better days. While the Solstice is a great car it is not in the cards or the budget to make a whole car line from the ground up. I am sure Pontiac and GM would love to do more but there are bigger fish to fry while saving GM. Pontiac is in limp mode to keep it viable till it is in the cards and budget to fit it. Even the Pontiac Oakland club is not overloaded with members anymore many are worried for the lack of new members. If all you think it will take to save Pontiac is a Coke bottle shape and a Retro grill we would be lucky if it was that easy. The bottom line is too few people care about Pontiac and Pontiac's past today. It will take a new look and new buyers to make it grow. If you hold onto the past too much you end up like Lincoln.

Bland I will accept but Land Barge is a little over doing it. For gods sake it is near similar in size to the GP. As for gas milage it is as good or better than the RWD Chryslers and Dodges. The V6 should do very well. I willing to bet the V8 is not going to do much worse than my 3800SC. As for the interior I would say you have not visited the inside of a recent Pontiac. The only highlights have been the Holden interior's. My GP is down right crap. I would have paid extra to get the G8 interior in my GP. My SSEI had much better leather but it was silly with all the bottons. This was a big turn off for many. The German's have offered Holden like interiors for years and no one complains and most desire them. Folks it is time to look around and see what real buyers are buying. And what Pontiac is and has offered of late most are not buying.

It gets on better than a 250 Lusso. Even with my disclaimer Italian cars are a far cry from what they once were.

Sad to say many of the Pontiac demographic is now part of the Camry/Accord/Malibu crowd as they sure ar not buying Pontiac's. Even BMW is not nor has ever been very radical of a car outside a M1 Etc. I think many here underestimate the general public and thing Pontiac has to be a little over the top in styling. I think if it is priced well, tateful, great quality and sporty people will respond. We need to sell this to more than what few Pontiac people are left we need to sell this to Mazda, Honda/Acura, Audi, Low end BMW and the like buyers. If we rely on only Pontiac Fans you can kiss Pontiac bye bye. We need conquest sales as we don't have enough Pontiac buyers as it is. If the G8 does as well as the GTO did in S Cali it shoulf be fine. The two extra doors will do more than enough to attract more buyers as the GTO is and never was a car for everyone in this day of the sedan.

All I see here is people complaining that the G8 is too little and the G6 GXP is too much. In todays market conservitive will always win and dramatic will always be hit or miss. As it stands now Pontiac can't win with the people here so I just hope the conservitive cars win with the general public who at this point really don't care for what Pontiac has. You can sell a conservitive car to about anyone vs a polarizing one only to those who precive it as good. If a Aztec as more like a Camry it would have faired much better with a wider market of potential buyers. The G8 has to sell to more than just Pontiac fans. As for the 3.6 DI it is going to be a major player. The hold on the Zeta and the 35 MPH stir in GC has put the spot light on the V6 in the Zeta. Lets face it in the general public most people do not need or want more than 300 HP. A 304-320 HP V6 would give performance and milage that would suit the normal daily driver. I see the 3.6 DI and its variants as the SBC of the future. Com on folks a V6 Camaro with 320 HP is where the 4th Gen SS left off. I think we could all live with that and 30 plus MPG highway for driving to work. As for the GTO the major differance with the G8 and GTO is The price will be right and not jacked up It's styling is not offensive and is conteporary, Keeping in mind the GT is the basic car and not the GXP that will have more aggresive looks is to come later. The styling will likely change in a couple years if and when it moves to the Oshawa plant. It is not competeing against a new Mustang that was prices well below the marked up GTO. And the biggest thing "IT'S A FOUR DOOR SEDAN"!!!!! Other than a Cobalt or Mustang coupes are a hard sell. With so many new coupes coming including Hyundia it will be intersting who survives. The whole key to the Camaro is it will shame many things with the Impala/Caprice. If not for that car Chevy may have not approved the Camaro. Like em or hate em Sedans make the market go around. The enthusiast say they want coupes but we are in the minority on this one. Standard trannys are they same problem with only 3-4% if buyers wanting them. If Pontiac does a coupe I just hope it has a V8 and a 300+ HP V6. As for the name dump the GTO and Firbird and go with a non numeric name. Note the V6 is important enough to the Camaro there will be two different ones offered. GM knows and already has it's bases covered. I just see Ford is way behind on there V6 right now. Not anly are they under powered but they are having problems on the Cam escentric where you can really mess up the engine if it breaks.

No your the reason there has not been a Mid Engine Vette. Most of what you list is what the average normal Vette owner expects and wants along with [somewhat] affordable. The front engine has become somewhat a badge of honor among Vette owners. Dave Mc Celland spells that out in his Book Inside THe Corvette. As for the engineers they would like to do one but with the owners wants and the other issues involved it is hard to justify changing the formula to a new one when the old one works well. It is kind of like Harly Davidson giving up the V Twin for a inline 4 and importing them from Korea. Just one thing to note. The change to no pop up headlights was a big risk that did not come with out some complaints. Checy had to really promote the loss of weight and the fact this took the car back to 1962. Lets face it it is even hard for them to get rid of the transverse springs. Coil overs are so much better but they are not what the Corvette has always had since 1963. Vette owners are creatures of habit.

Hey I may have seen an 08 Equinox today but I did not notice it . Crossovers are like Man Purses! Useful but Just wrong! Oh, Holden Rules!!!!

Ypu are going to see a grater use of the 3.6 and 2.0 in many cars. Their power is going to both be near 300 HP and higher. Pontiac will get the use of both engines. We are only a year to a year and a half from seeing a power increase in the Eco and the new camaro will see near 320 Hp in a V6. GM knows their future lies in the smaller overhead cam engines and will use them in many cars. Even if CAFE is not raised the price of gas will force many to accept the V6 cars in many cases and most will be happy with 300 HP and 30 plus MPG highway. The V8 will be there for those who can afford them and trucks. GM tried to go smaller before with few taking. Untill the price of Fuel is high enough the same will still happen. Most Americans are not willing to drive Fits, Yaris and Aveo's.

If thry do no have the votes now the odds are good they will not have them in 30 days. This will lead to it failing again or the whole thing getting watered down to a realistic goal. Lets make this simple. It passes = unrealistic goals and smaller under powered cars for all. No other options. It is dropped = A second chance where it will most likely fail as is or will be rolled back to where it becomes more realistic with present technology. You have to win a few battles to win the war in Washington. Boys this was one for our side. A lot of GM's future is pending because of ths and the longer this goes on the better the odds. Bases on comments from the folks from GM they are not taking this one laying down.

This is welcomed news for GM and many planned future products. I would hope this will remove the hold on the future Zeta cars and move Alpha forward. Detroit will need to stay moving ahead in fuel milage to stave off any more problems with DC House puts off tougher fuel economy rules Gordon Trowbridge / Detroit News Washington Bureau WASHINGTON -- House leaders decided Wednesday to put off a potentially divisive fight over auto fuel-economy rules, leaving until September the debate over how high a hurdle they'll set for the embattled domestic carmakers. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said late Wednesday that the House will not consider competing proposals to change Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards when the House takes up a comprehensive energy bill this week. The House is expected to vote on the package this week. The decision means the Big 3 automakers have dodged, for now, passage of a tough set of CAFE standards proposed by Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., which would have boosted vehicle mileage to 35 miles per gallon by 2019. It has wide support among House Democrats, including Pelosi. Markey agreed to withdraw his proposal, offered as an amendment to the energy bill, as did Rep. Baron Hill, D-Ind., who had offered a weaker set of mileage standards favored by the auto industry. Despite the reprieve, it is unclear whether Wednesday's decision to delay the debate is good news, in the long run, for the Big 3. It's possible the issue won't be resolved until a House-Senate conference committee meets to iron out differences between the competing versions of the bill. Democratic leaders in the House and Senate, who generally favor tougher standards, will appoint members of the conference committee. House Democrats also avoided what could have been a difficult intra-party battle. Pelosi and many other House Democrats favor higher standards than the auto industry supports. But Rep. John Dingell, D-Detroit, powerful chairman of the House Energy & Commerce Committee and perhaps the Big 3's biggest advocate in Washington, has sparred with Pelosi over CAFE. Car companies, including the domestic carmakers and some foreign firms, have opposed high mileage standards such as those in the Markey plan, calling them unachievable. Environmental groups have kept up the pressure for higher standards, saying they are vital to fight global climate change. Supporters of higher standards won a victory earlier this year in the Senate, which approved a set of CAFE proposals opposed by the industry and by Michigan lawmakers. Sen. Carl Levin, now a spectator of the House debate after a bruising June battle in the Senate, said earlier Wednesday he hoped the House would adopt the Hill-Terry language instead of delaying the debate. "It would be better if they take up Hill-Terry and it wins," Levin, D-Detroit, told Michigan reporters. Levin, Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Lansing, and other auto-industry supporters tried and failed to get a similar plan, more friendly to the Big 3, included in the Senate bill. "While there will be no House vote on CAFE before the recess, the issue will remain in September," said Dave McCurdy, who heads the Auto Alliance, an umbrella lobbying group for carmakers. Pelosi repeated Wednesday her support for higher standards. "The American people, in every region of the country, overwhelmingly support stronger fuel-efficiency standards, and we will have an opportunity to address this issue shortly," Pelosi said in a written statement. "The Senate energy bill does contain a CAFE provision, which I support." Markey's bill would have required automakers to meet an average of 35 mpg one year earlier than the provision included in the Senate bill passed in June. The Hill-Terry plan includes a 35 mpg requirement by 2022. Markey, on one side, and Hill and Rep. Lee Terry on the other, have been working for weeks to line up supporters behind their competing proposals. Hill and Terry got support earlier Wednesday from the Blue Dog Coalition, a group of conservative House Democrats, who endorsed the Hill-Terry legislation. "While fuel-economy standards are an important part of the solution, we must also be mindful of the role automakers play in the American economy," Rep. Brad Ellsworth, D-Ind., said in a statement released by the Blue Dogs. Markey had said he has as many as 200 supporters for his bill. He said Wednesday he was confident the bill that eventually reaches the president's desk will include the kind of increase he supports. Several states also weighed in Wednesday against the Hill-Terry proposal. Attorneys general from California and a dozen other states warned in a letter to Pelosi that the plan might curtail their ability to set their own limits on greenhouse-gas emissions from autos. The states have sought permission from the Environmental Protection Agency to set their own carbon-emissions rules on cars, something auto companies oppose. Dingell and Pelosi had argued earlier this year over a plan Dingell had introduced that would pre-empt states' ability to set rules tougher than federal regulations

I just love this!! Everyone complains about the G8 as too plain and now the G GXP as overdone. Pontiac just can't win. The problem is Pontiac needs to stop tring to please the old customers and just move ahead in a new direction. The good old days are good but how many times can you listen to the Beach Boys and no anoy those around you. A good solid RWD program in a well priced quality car will sell just fine to many new Pontiac buyers once they stop playing games. While AWD would be nice it is not required. I live in the snow belt of the great lakes and most people will not pay the extra cost of AWD as you really don't need it if you have lived here very long. Slick road skills and a good set of tires suit us fine. The companies from Japan have shown that most people want more conceritive looking cars. Euro influance helps as many try to copy BMW and Benz. Pontiac can carve a place for themselves if they try to be true and stop living in the 80's. I think the G8 sales will reflect what todays people want. the doors will make a differance as the car companies try to sell coupes but most people do not car or want them unless they are a Mustang or a small car like a Cobalt. Pontiac just needs to let the G6 ride out till it is replace by a new car unlike the other GM divisions and just pray people will give them a second look after so many years of deluted cars that were nothing more than a fancey Chevy.

I know we have seen a shorten Holden that could have been a Camaro Mule and we also know they are testing Camaro's in Austrailia or somewhere outside the States per the Fbodfather. Anyone have any clues on how or what the cars are rebodied as? We know the Camaro covered the C5 and A CTS and GTO have been used to make the Camaro mock up's. Have we any clues? The only new news we have had was the Movie and some toys. Chevy we need a little new news! Any way the mules have to be in plain sight somewhere but what are they. They should be well into testing and racking up miles on driveline parts and we know they are not just on test tracks. Intro time is not all that far out and we should be seeing somthing soon. The Challanger is not that far ahead.

I did forget that he said the Car would be 0-60 in the low 5 second range. I think he said 5.3 of 5.4 sec. If you want 300 HP at the wheel just wait for this car as the Solstice Eco with only a few mods made 320 HP on the SEMA car. IF I figure right that would be near 300 WHP on that car. The same mods will be available for the Cobalt too.

I have some friends I work with that have family at Lordstown and work on the G5 and Cobalts built there. One guy I work with has an uncle who does final checks and runs the new cars on a wheel dyno. Sorry I don't have all the details but from what I have been told he has been training on a new Cobalt Turbo. The only main details I could gleem are that it is much more powerful than the present SS. He also said the engine really was much the same as the Sky and Solstice just in a transvese location. I tried to confirm the 5 speed auto tansaxle but he did not comment. I did see it is set to be on the HHR SS so it should be expected. I would guess this car will see 240-260 HP by the time it hits the market. Sorry I did not get more info but that is all I could get on the car. I did note he said there is not much news of a new car yet at Lordstown so I expect the UAW and GM will work on that after they come to terms on a company wide deal with the present talks. If they fail most of this work will go to Meixco.

What I am saying is the claimed high mileage that Toyota still calims and if you drive the Prius as a normaL car you only see 32 MPG VS their 40+ MPG claim. We had a reporter here in town that did a story on the Prius she owned and how it only delivers if you feather the gas and hold up traffic. These same problems of less than promised milage is seconded by two other owners I know. The Fact is the Prius is not the high milage champ it claioms to be if driven like a normal car. It is important under most normal conditions that GM delivers the MPG as promised. I know GM is good on thier word on HP in most of thier new cars unlike many other companies I just hope they do the same and only prommise the milage most really will see. If it gets more all the better. Under promise and over deliver and no one ever complains.

I just hope this is a real world driving 40% gain and not a Prius gain. Toyota has gotten a free pass on the Prius milage as most owners never get the high milage due to the fact you have to feather the pedal. If GM can get 40% gain and dive it like a truck should be driven this will be great. But if GM comes up short on milage the press will ream them unlike the pass Toyota got.

Yes and the steam car is still floating around yet today. It is in non runing condition but still in good shape.

Too bad they don't offer a link for the Sansa players. They are the second most popular and what most people go to when they get fed up with their I Pod. You can change your own Battery for $20 and it is Windows Media MP3 friendly with drag and drop loading. You can even load a whole movie or 2000 songs in the one I have with room to spare. I guess I will just have to wait for the indash hard drives to arrive.

67 Is rare but not as rare as the one year convertible. I went to school with a guy who's dad still has a GP convertible in the garage with very low miles. In my 40+ years I have only ever seen it out a couple of times. I have seen a few Convertibles at the Pontiac National but none as original or clean as this car. Shame it is never seen out.

I would expect the Delphi pact to be a pattern of what we will see. Also look to the Goodyear tire strike as the possiblilty of a trust being created to fund future health benifits and relieve the companys of this obligation. The USW chose this for their workers and Goodyear was very happy with the results even after a long strike. Both the UAW and Auto comapnies have studied it and right now I think both agree to look at it but they still need to agree on how much to fund it. For Goodyear it was over a Billion dollars. The UAW knows if they don't work this out GM is in a place they could easily make their cars elsewhere and import them. The plants in the states are not a requirement anymore, nicew to have but not required it too expensive to run. Canada, Mexico, Korea, Brazil, Europe, China and Austrailia could all supply the NA market if needed. Wall Street know how the cars are stack and already list Ford and GM stock overweight [this is good] because they expect big concessions will be worked out.

Here is the deal. GM is tring to cut deals with the UAW to keep this plant open. They will not say anything about the future plans till a deal is struck. They would like to keep the plant open if cost can be retained but GM can move what ever platform to other plants if they do not get what they want. Odds are good GM will get what they need and a future car will be anounced soon after.

Too bad the G8's styling is not as dynamic! I am shock there is one still around. This is like finding a MonteCarlo turbo with the original engine and turbo intact. Good find now get it to a museum before it is gone as it may be the only one left. I found a AWD 6000 STE in the junk yard a couple years ago. The car looked pretty good! I was looking at it and think it had a drive line failure andf it was not worth the money to repair. That was a shame as the interior and body looked good.

Nothing worth mentioning.. The interior is 150% improved but there is always a little something that can be improved or changed. That is why I would not say it is 100% on. but it is damn close. The only major thing I wish they could do is make the leather option standard but I understand they want to keep the base car price down and affordable. Also the option price too should not be an issue for anyone able to afford a $50K car.

If you want any Fiero info here is the only web site to fool with. Pennock's Fiero Forum http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro This is the place where only the worlds best restorers and collectors meet. And I mean world wide as many memebers are from down under as well as Europe. The site is even based in Holland.