hyperv6

Not so much venom as just frustration that GM is finally giving us a great car we have begged for and a few are acting repulsed that it has an emblem not of their choice when it is the same car regardless of the emblem. The small fact you leave off of the 10% is there were so many fewer GMC dealers vs the Chevy store on every corner and the fact GMC really never promoted these cars to start. This argument is every bit as bad as the Z28 vs SS getting top billing. GM can not please everyone and have to make the hard choice to do what is best for GM. In other words we are not always going to get everything we wish for and for a good reason. The fact Pontiac and GMC dealers are product starved, the fact the G8 and Holden Ute share a common bond, the fact GMC it trying to seperate it's self from Chevy after years of many asking GM to do so. All of this adds up to a deal where a limited specialty car at a dealer that is going to specialize in niche cars would benifit by this car as would the car it's self not getting lost in a dealer with so many other models already offered. It just seem silly to sell a car that looks like a Pontiac in a Chevy dealer. IF they would rebody the nose which they won't I could see Chevy getting it. I can understand your being upset on not getting your name of choice and that is ok but to diss the car and say you would not buy because of a simple emblem says to me you really don't want one bad enough. There has never been a perfect car made and there is always something you want changed. But if a name is all that would prevent you from buying?? I think we all have made bigger consessions than just a name on cars we already have owned. Does a simple piece of plastic really change this car that much? Does it run and perform different? Does it other than a few emblems look different? Does the load capacity change? This is like turning down a good piece of cake because the frosting is brown and not white while the cake looks and taste the same. If you don't like the frosting color scrape it off. At this point the Camino has been gone so long you have a whole generation of new buyers who really know little about them anyway and many other who just plain forgot them. It is time to let go of the past as things have to change to improve GM's future. GMC will more than likely give this car more promotion than Chevy would as it is more important to them than it is at Chevy with money already going to the Camaro, HHR, Malibu, New RWD Impala, and other high volume cars that will bring in more money than a limited pick up. I see Chevy treating this car no better than the SSR. Big a launch and lost from sight after. GMC is a niche marketing unit perfect to keep and let a limited import thrive along with a sister sedan in a shared divison. Also price may also be a factor where importing this car in limited numbers may move this higher than a Chevy price ranged car. That would not be good to have a Camino for 35K next to a Camaro that is 28K. many would forgo the bed at that price in a Chevy store. This is a limited market car and need to be treated as such that other than the Vette is not Chevys market. Lord knows the Tahoe SS and Silverado SS are hard sells at the higher priceses they see as was the SSR. Now the HHR at the price it is goes like hot cakes. Chevy is a value leader for a reason. For a Camaino to sell at Chevy it wouldf have to be under 30K and the closer to 25K the better. I just don't see that happening unless it is a V6 stripper and I don't expect many stippers to make the boat. In buisness it's like gambling on football, you have to bet with your head and not your heart if you want the odds in your favor. I think "Professional Grade" fits this car well as it does Denali. This is not a beater truck kind of car anymore. It is more a gentalmens pick up. GMC is a work truck only anymore and many models are near Cadilacs. Sorry but I am frustrated! It is not aimed at anyone and I don't mean to ruffle anyones feathers. The car is available to those who want it and they will know where to get it. This is not a car for everyone. Never has nor will ever be.

What is the BIG fricken deal????? As a past owner of a GMC Sprint SP with an original 402 Big block I feel I can make a rational observation. The only differance between my Sprint SP and the El Camino want the stinking emblems! Even the factory rallys that came on it were Chevy. I loved my car and thought no less and no more of it being a GMC because it was the same stink'in car. If GM wants to make this a GMC I say go for it as GMC and Pontiac can use all the new product they can get. I even considered that since this truck will be a rebadged Holden that it would fit with the G8 as a GMC much better than ploping it in Chevys line up. The only advantage of it being a Chevy was the name only. The cold truth is if you like the this vehicle and realy cared about the vehicle you would really not care what GM calls it or what dealer sells it. If they would bring it back as an Oldsmobile I would be a willing buyer. I have been driving ZQ8 S series trucks as it is as close as I can come to a Ute as I can get in this country. I would like to hope there are enough buyers to justify bringing this vehicle is but if not better to try it at GMC vs Chevy as GMC can absorb a failure better and needs a secsess even more. I say if you don't like the name if it is a GMC just call Year one and buy your own emblems. If your not going to buy this car just because it is a GMC and not a Chevy you didn't want one that bad to begin with. What is more important the Vehicle or the name? To me the Vehicle is what ai want and they can call it what ever they like. Besides as a GMC a better chance a busniess case could be made to bring it here as a limited import in a specialized dealer adn division. Hard choices have to be made and not all are going to be the way you want them. Just be glad they can bring this vehicle in.

It all comes down to preception. The Malibu is as good as Honda and Camry but the trick is how do you change peoples minds of what a Malibu rreally is. Hyundia did it with price and better warranties than Honda and Toyota. Is that something GM should do to one up and make them a better value. Once GM gets people behind the wheel and treat them well at the dealer it shoudl work. I just fear just sitting the car out there and hoping they will come in will not be enough. The price will bait the trap and the warranty will back up GM's claim they are better. People want cheap cars that don't need fixed! That is all it takes as we already know by the big sellers styling seems to not matter.

I wouls suspect we will see this or something near this. I think all would love to see this except for 2 posters here.

The fact is today outside of enthusiast [being the minority] looks of a car is not the think on top of their list. For the most part this is what they look for. Can I afford it and how much are the payments or lease per month. Does it have a warranty and how long is it Is it reliable? M ost people today consult Edmunds or Conusumer Guides to buy cars vs Hot Rod or Car and Driver. Most people want a taste ful car but nothing to radical. There are may radical designs out there and many are very nice but he plain 4 door sedan is always the top seller. It is like Metalic or Van Halen in music. WHen they were true to their roots they made money and sold CD's. When they went more mainstream they were accused of selling out but they made even more money and sold many more CD's. My point is in todays world while many enthusiast recall the days of edgy styling and radical appointments most people want bla today. TO survive in todays market you have to sell what the people want not what you want them to have. I blaime air bags and helmet laws. Ever since they were required the people who would have not made it to 30 years are still with us, Society as a whole has gotten dumber and dumber with each year. It is time to cull the heard. :AH-HA_wink:

I don't know the others but I know Gary from Edmunds and he is as much a dyed in the wool GM fan as we are. He has written many GM approved books including the new book on the Solstice. He even is a Solstice owner. I like hearing postive reviews and hope most of these are accurate as I like the car and hope it sells well. FYI Garys wife also is a writer and has also worked for GM in the past too. Garys a great writer and car nut. He also wrote the GM approved book on the Fiero in the 80's.

This car is so over done when the G8 is just about right for the general market. People are over the over done stying thing like it or not. This car will show they made the right choice with the Solstice and G8 to tone things down. Check out the comments on the GXP on Autoblog vs the comments on the G8 from last week. The unwashed Non GM masses are so very down on this car ans very much positive on the G8. These non GM lovers are the important people that need to buy these cars and the G8 looks to be the one if priced right that will win with them over.

Where are the Supra [really a 4 seater and a MR 2 today???? Gone! Limited sales limited profits and limited life. GM does realize today that killing Olds all together was a mistake because once the name is gone it so very hard to bring back. Ever heard of the Le salle? First off have you not noticed most GP's have a E ont he deck lid as they are rental cars?? These fleet sales they will lose are not profitable. The G 6 may be around in some form but need to be better than it is today. Also GM has made it clear Pontiac is no loner a high volume brand. they will only need to account for 1/2 to 1/3 of the sales in one dealership. GM has removed the pressure of high volume so that Pontiac and Buick can concentrait on doing the cars they are good at and not have to make one for everyone. Mazda for years has limited sales of the Miata in the states and has also sold the car around the world. GM is doing the same with the Kappa. Your not going to move high volumes of 2 seater for multi years as it is a car you can only sell to a limited crowd. The Vette is about as high volume as your going to see in a 2 seater. Even the Miata sells a average of all its years 15-17K cars per year. Before the redesign it did not make 10k for the year. Look around I dont think 98% of all the people here are wrong and your right. I respect your opinion but you better look at what your saying and how few well informed people here agree. Is this Buick Man? If not we need to name him Pontiac Man.

First lets address reality. Pontiac has not started the rebuilding yet as the G8 and the Solstice is the only real first full Lutz efforts. Now Saturn has already added many models and has a lead on it's rebuilding because they were even worse off than Pontiac. Second Pontiac is not going anywhere but up as it gets new models over the next few years. Third It would be insane to sell two 2 seat sports cars in the same line up of you value leader car line. 2 Seat cars are a limited market and really only one will do the work that two would do. The many spent would be much better off in the Malibu or other high volume higher profit car. We are going to see Pontiac turn into a more sport performance division with Euro flair. Plain as some might think it that is what is selling. If Pontiac can give quality and perfornace at a great price it will live on. The sooner the SUV crossovers and G5 or 6 are updated or eliminated with much better product we will see these changes. GM realized that killing Olds was the wrong thing to do as they lost all equity of a once proud name. GM is in some way kind of returning to their roots where each division will only offer a couple cars. In the old days you did not have 16 Pontiacs choices, you had 2 or 3. Most of us here see and understand what GM is doing and where they are going and a few will just never catch on.

As a GP owner I don't have the numbers but feel more uncomfortable with ever GP I follow with a E in a green box on the deck lid. In my area it happens too often. It isd like they have a Enterprise edition GP.

That is what the differance is bettween those who think and those who dream. You got to know who to listen to. At least it is better here than other web sites.

I would be shocked if it happens. If it does it would really be a replacment for the Caddy roadster with a limited special Corvette offered with the regular front engine.

I think he means this is the more basic car less the bigger wheels and other upgrades we will see in a year. GT really does not mean much more than just standard car at Pontiac anymore.

60's T birds had them there too. If the switches are that much of a problem to anyone they were not in the market for this car in the first place.

What is to keep in mind here is that this is only the standard GT model and it looks good. We will ge more agressive parts, flashier interior, bigger wheels and brakes etc soon. As one might note most of the snobs at Autoblog seem to like this car as only a few ignorent troll ave piped in. This a good sign and I think when prices are anounced it will also be pleasing to many. I expect this car to sell well I just hopw the dealers don't get greedy like they did on the GTO. The G8 will be a very popular car in LA area for GM and that is something they dearly need. As for the window controls on the console how much more Pontiac can you get as this was a place the TA had theirs. Just be glad it is not like an Alfa with them on the headliner console. This will be he best Damn Sedan Pontiac has had in many years. Just which emblem will we get on the nose?

I made it to the very first Woodward not even knowing it was on. Needless to say things have grown and I will have to make a return visit. Also go to Hot August Nights in Reno it is also one of the things a real car guy has to do before he dies things. Thanks for the pic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After reading this thread this AM I was able to sped time in a parking lot watching traffic [read waiting for the wife]. I did note that most makes today have little better styling than this car and the tail lights are not much better on most others. Many of the cars are now sporting the high nose and nondiscript sedan styling. So while the Malibu is not a home run in the department it is a good solid double. Now all we need is some great reviews and a track record of reliability. I think to get people to buy GM is going to have to raise the warranty on their cars to 5 year 100,000 miles on all cars. This worked for Hyundia and with the lower peice and great warranty many were willing to give them a second look.

I got to see one of these in the open at a NASCAR truck race last may. It was a good time to compare as it has a new Impala along side and a old Malibu two cars down. The car is near the size of the Impala [Note that this car is to take Impala's place when replaced with a RWD to give buyers a choice, smart move] Also noted the car is a BIG IMPROVMENT over the present Malibu. THis car give the look of a car costing 5-10K more than it will sell for. I too am not a big fan of the tail lights as they look like a Mitubishi. But on the other hand the last Impala had much worse tail light with the wide plastic band and the 4 round lights. So while they are not exactly what I would like I will take them as an improvment over the past few models. I overall love the Aura too but even the tail end on it reminds me of an old Oldsmobile and not a Staurn. It is not bad but also not as good as the rest of the car. The Malibu compared to the lifeless compitition should do well as it has a good price and is well equiped. Lord knows this car my not be all it could be but it is at least a car that finally can compete in this tough segment. Chevy will do well with this car.

A hybrid would be a very deft move right now. I would almost be sure GM has this idea already. Hybrd is not a bad word but in most cases it is a small boring underpowered car. This technology applied to a performance car that get improved mileage and image would be a boon. Japan is already working on performance Hybrids and here is a chance for GM to be at the start of the curve vs playing catch up. Volt technology is only the start and much of what is learned can and will be shared in other cars. As for Diesels.. other than enthusiast and Diesel diehards the general public is not as a whole that excited about them and never have. You can blaime old stereo types of the Olds mess or the fact many in cold climates don't care for the extra work needed etc. I loved what I saw with the Audi 10 cylinder American Lemans racers but few people even know anything about them and in the States they would still be a hard sell. Hybrids on the other hand are like MP3 and had caught the publics interest as new technoloy at least to them. Now if you get the price of diesel under the price of gas some may start to pay attention to the improved diesels. But till them too many in the general public think they are just smokey noisey pick up truck engines.

Old news as I posted the other day that some of the staff is already being trained to dyno test these at Lordstown. He said times for 0-60 would be in the mid to upper 5 sec range. As for HP I expect power to level off soon but with the reach for better MPG I expect to see less weight in cars. Add that lower weight to the present power we have the best of both worlds. Also with less weight it would improve braking and handling

This engine is great in a Lotus because it weighs under 2000 LBS. This car proves what a co worker once told me "anything taste good if your hungry". I think with the lack of new product some here are getting too excited over this thing.

Son of Aztec or Aztec II This is just what Pontiac really does not need. As I said when I saw the first Aztec prototype in Detroit "What the hell are they thinking. This is proof if you whine too much about the G8 being to plain your dreams may come to haunt you!!!! Be careful what you wish for. Lets get Pontiac back to its core market sporty sedans and coupes and let the odd wagons to Chevy and Daewoo. If Pontiac is to do a wagon a Shooting Brake on a Alpha or Kappa would be more in tune with where Pontiac is going. Even the new Small Audi wagon make this thing look like a joke.

The Olympic's are a dead issue. Ratings are no where near what they were years ago. When we only had 3 networks and no dish or cable we would all sit and watch the Olympic's because we only saw this stuff once every few years. Now we can see it five times a day on five different sports networks. Besides with the stuff people are doing in the X games Gymnastics and ice skating just pale anymore. There is much better place for the money to be spent and get much more coverage. Who here bought a Buick just because you could get the Olympic special edition? Mmmm..... I thought so. Now they would do more good doing the Special Olympic's plus get a tax write off. GM's marketing is not anymore out of tough than most marketing deparments. Most have no clue as the people hired to sell the products and are not car people or even people who love what they are selling in the first place as it is only a job. With all the Police chases in LA on CNN at Lunch time anymore we could get GM to provide cars to the runners and let them show how well their cars perform. I may be joking but at work we all note how well some cars perform or hold up during the chase.

And everytime you risk a radical style or different concept you stand a good chance of a Aztec or Sunfire with limited appeal. Pontiac can not afford anymore Aztec's. Becareful of what you wish for. Don't get me wrong I would love to see some more darring Pontiac's as much as most of you. What I fear is they will not be accepeted by many and most of the buyers as has been the case with many of the latest Pontiac's If Pontiac is to stick there neck out it has to be a home run or it will be sitting on the lots. Of late their batting average is one Solstice and not much else. It is even in the eyes of many the 2nd best Kappa styling. I think the G8 can work better with some bigger wheels and tires like the show car. some tastefull HSV parts and even some clean color two tone combo's like some of the custom cars are now sporting. I myself was not a big fan of the 04 GP but with the 5 spoke chrome wheels the GXP spoiler and Stainless tail pipes I hace been suprised how many people tell me they like my car vs most GP's they see. The age range is from teens to 70's. The car in GT form is down right boring and really lookes the rental car part. the rear standard spoiler looks cheap and the ten spoke wheels just never worked on the car as they looked small even in 17" size. It is the details that count and the G8 GT is only a starting point. Lets just see what Pontiac can do with it once its line starts to expand. The base Bonnie sucked vs the clean GXP too.

I understand and agree this is what would be great. I would love to see things happen as you discribe but in todays market It happening. I just do not see what Pontiac people want as the same as most of the maket wants anymore and there are too few true Pontiac fans to support it. It is sad to say that most of the people in todays Auto market just want clean tasteful cars with only a little flair. Look at most of your top sellers and most are conservitive clones. Also look at the Asian luxury cars as most have a lot of BMW or Benz in them. Neither are dramatic but that is what the public wants. GM has tried to make some cars that stand out and each time they have been rejected or not as popular as one would expect. Avalanche vs Tahoe which one sold better here. Even with the better versitily the Tahoe won. The 4th Gen TA was awsome but never a big seller vs the Mustang, the GXP Bonnie was great looking to me but not to most others and few bought it. Today Cadillac has taken the bold step to try to lead in design. for the most part it has helped them from where they were but it is still polarizing to many. I hope with the cleaner new CTS this will lead many more back to Caddy. You can sell a conservtive good quality car to about anyone but when styling take a leading edge it becomes more polarizing and is a love it or hate it thing. A company can't afford a polarizing design when they every sale they can get. They can do this later when taking a chance is not as risky for the future of the division. I am not a BMW fan but feel Pontiac needs to reivent itself in a conseritive performance image. They could still sneek in a more radical car here and their but the bread and butter cars need to reflect what the market as a whole wants and not just Pontiac fans. We here too often think as enthusiast and fail to remember that we are in the minority in the market. I am a long time Pontiac fan and today I feel so alone as few people I know like or care for anything Pontiac has or has had for a long time. Even most would chose a Sky over the Solstice. The real sad part is I work in the performance aftermaket and if people there really don't car about Pontiac who will. Even more sad is the fact most Pontiac people can agree anymore since Pontiac has lost direction. Even a dramatic car like the Aurora was too little to late to help Olds with their base fans alone. Olds lost their base and I fear the same is true with Pontiac. If they are to survive they need to play to the majority as the Pontiac fans are all too few anymore. On the other hand the stylish conservitive Le Sabre helped save Buick. This is the same car Hyundia and toyot copied for some of their best selling cars.