hyperv6

Having between my father and myself owning 12 GM Hardtops from the 60's and 70's Chevys some with 4 speeds I can attest they are great when the windows were down. Now how often they all were down? Seldom.... Even with the lack of AC is some of the cars we never took the time to roll all the windows all down as they were manual and you had to roll them back up once you got to where you were going. So 90% of the time we drove around looking just like the new Camaro will with all the windows up and the AC on. You can sit and stew claiming your not going to buy this car. Well GM already knows they will not please everyone. Less people are willing to pay the price of the expensive chocolate no matter how good. For every lost sale of the B pillar being in place they will pick up untold sales due to price point and other factors. GM has to please the majority and not everyone. If the B pillar is a problem your in the minority that were expected by GM anyway and there will be others to buy the car you may have. You made a choice and they had to make a choice no one is wrong and it is just business and they have to make money.

It is accurate that the whole Nove name thing was false! Sales were fine in Spanish speaking countries.

I agree to a point on the over reged on but hand there is a Austrailian G8 Diver today that I am sure is happy that his G8 had a B pillar. Just think how a 1969 Camaro may have looke after 100 Foot divre off a cliff. Keep in mind with cheaper lighter materials in our near future there is a chance we may see a coupe in the future again at a affordable price. On the other hand even expensive cars like the 911 have forgone the coupe effect for weight and stability. Targas were not just for looks.

I would figure it has a 98% chance it won't

I have not seen any estimated numbers from those who know as they are not talking specifics. But I have heard them say they are saving weight anyway and any where they can. As it was explained to me the story is this. GM has to have a 5 star on this car as Insurance companies will shread it other wise. That is a GM priority but it plays havoc with keeping the weight and price down. They can use lightweight metals but cost goes up in a car that can't afford to get too expensive. I know most know this already but it is what those from GM are saying and not speculation. I would guess the weight is at least 100 lbs if it is a true hard top but also factor in the added cost to make it stronger and the more work needed on the line to build it. I really think cost it the larger factor in the end. To back this up they have a Convertible coming so we know this car has a stronger platform but keep in mind it will be a little heavier but it will be much more expensive than the base coupe. But in the end Convertibles are never as strong or stiff. Even the best Verts still have some flex or cowl shake. One other factor is performance in handling. One needs a stiff platform for great handling and we have promised class leading handling by Fbodfather a while back so this show it has also been a priority. The 80 Mustang is a good example of how much the roof effects a car. The Fox body with a trunk was much Cheaper to build, stiffer and lighter vs the vert or hatch. Over all reaction here has been better than on the Camaro web site. I know most here deal with reality better as most here have a good understanding of all the factors and challanges involved to build a car like this like em or not. As for those who don't understand they will just have to find a way to deal with it. I know a few puist will grumble but in the end you have to do what is best to keep the pice in line and overall perfomance of the car vs a small styling element that most average buyers will never know any different it is there. I am sure it will be hidden in black and maybe even in a flush fit of the glass? In the long run GM will sell more cars with the benifits [cost, strength and weight] with the B pillar vs the styling effect without. The bottom line is how many in the general buying public that will purchase this car even know what a B pillar even is. They have looked at this car so much that they really have factored in having a lower perfoming V6 to satisfy those driver [read you females] who don't car for perfomance and just care about style. They don't want to have to deal with a car that could be more challanging to drive in poor weather or could get away from them after they trade in the Cavalier for this car. That may be why they are looking at two V6 models. I find those who like the Challanger are the ones going to pay the price as it also has the B pillar and I will be shocked if it comes in under 4000 lbs by much. The mules have been every bit as big as the show car and that is a lot of metal. It may have a Hemi and no V6 but it will need it to move and handling will suffer as when you throw tha much mass around it is hard to change it's direction in mid turn.

Since GM of Brazil is doing the new trucks will it come from South America?

Here is some note on the new Camaro by Bob on Edmonds SANTA MONICA, Calif. — GM product guru Bob Lutz has confirmed that unlike the Camaro concept car and the 1969 Camaro it emulates, the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro will not be a true hardtop when it reaches production. Despite the fact that GM Chairman Rick Wagoner originally said the 2010 Camaro would be "virtually identical" to designer Sangyup Lee's concept that debuted at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show, Lutz confirmed that the production Camaro will in fact have a B-pillar, making it a standard coupe instead of a traditional hardtop coupe. Lutz said the standard coupe structure is necessary to keep production costs down and ensure the Camaro's frame is as light and tight and possible. The same fate is true for the Dodge Challenger. The Challenger concept was also presented as a hardtop coupe in 2006, but the 2008 production version will be a standard coupe when it goes on sale next spring. What this means to you: Cost-cutting has killed the hardtop coupe for the everyman, with the last holdouts belonging to Bentley and Mercedes. First let me note that this is no suprise to most of us. To build this car with a 5 star rating at the price point of a Mustang and under 4,000 lbs the b pillar is needed for strength. That B pillar will save you money to buy and insure and just might save a few Lives here. GM has to deal with the cards they are delt. They are no different from us and do have limitations placed on them for the things they can or want to do. If there was any way they could match the Mustang in price and keep the weight under 4,000 lbs You whould know they would have done it. The first priority is to keep this car safe and competitive in price and performance. There has yet to be a car that really ever came out the exact way a company had invisioned it. While we can dream about these cars we still have to understand it is still a buisness and they have to turn a buck or they would not have given the go ahead to build this car at all. The Charger is getting one too so it is the reality of a car under $50k. Most of us will have the air on anyway and the windows up. Even the first Gens were driven with the rear windows up 90% of the time as power windows were rare and few took the time to lower them anyway. We will see a few more changes as this is a real car and not a show car. IF you don't make the changes the price gets away or likethe ergonomics in the SSR were you have to open the door to reach and adjust the seat buttons. Also note the 2010 date is accurate as it will be released in Feb 09 as a early 2010. This has been a trend of many new GM cars going back to the March 03 release of the 04 GP. So no the date has not been moved back it is still Feb 09.

In the Automotive Olympic Cliff Diving Event The judges score are as follows. US Judge gives 5 Stars British Judge Gives 5 Stars Austrailian Judge Gives 5 Stars South African Judge Gives 5 Star Mexican Judge 5 Stars Russian Judge 2 Stars Pontiac might want to promote this as how safe this car is. It held up very well and the cage area remained intacty very well. This beats the hell out of those Insurance indutry and Consumer Reports test.

A little greed can drive us but total greed will finish us. IF we had to face the depression of the 20's and 30's today we would have a total mess on our hands today with the many who expect hte Goverment to bail them out of their every mess. Too many want and too few are willing to give of themselves for their on good. The many Vets of WWII were willing to give their life to save Europe and today we have few that would give up a seat on a bus to a pregnet woman. Too bad the coming together after 911 did not last more than a few months as we could use a little more of that. Too many do not think the USA can fail but If the USSR can fall we can too. Don't think for a moment that there not people working hard to do just that too. With both political partys being controls by special interest, far out groups like Moveon.org spreading their own vile Soros agenda and so many Americans who can't even name who their state congressman it is no wonder we are in such a mess. I just know we have some hard times coming and it will either make us or break us.

Don't count the UAW out. They now have a purpose in maintaining the large health care fund. The officals will make a big draw off of the money to pay themselves for maintaining it. I hope the goverment watches over this close so there are no sticky fingers. Here in Akron we Killed the United Rubber Workers Union off. They dropped the torch and the United Steel Worker weak in membership offered to represent the Rubber workers. I fear if the UAW fails the Teamsters will pick up what is left. Unions will combine and spit the little that they have left as few Union reps want to go out and have to really work for a living. Unions are going to change and be weaker but I don't see them going away soon.

If I were looking for a V6 Mule I would be looking for a CTS first gens and from what I heard they are not pretty. The V8 may be under the same bodies? THe V6 DI would not be Comprtitive with with he Mustang...The DI V6 would be dominate.

The harsh truth is companies first priority id to make profit for share holders. No profit no money no share holders then no jobs. It is like Bill Gates. He invented a better mouse trap and was smart in marketing it. more power to him. Everyone starts like the same way with a good smak on the a$$ and if you want something bad enough you will find a way to make it in life. It is time to stop thinking the man is screwing you and putting the blame on others for all your grief. Just one look at the many that came from Asia after Viet Nam and how many of them have trived in this country should show many a better life is out their if you want to work for it. The Eagles song "Get Over It" comes to mind everytime I hear someone claim they have not been given a fair shake in life. Life is what you make of it and many are too greedy or lazy to ever be happy. Just watch a episode of Cops and you will see why so many have problems. So much is self inflicted.

This is so true... Todays middle class is going bankrupt trying to compete with the higher class. I see to many people wanting to be on MTV Cribs with only 70K of income. They have good jobs and make good livings but the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. While most of the developing countries are just happy to have 3 meals a day we worry about having that H2 or BMW in the drive and the big pool with a wather fall. I work with a guy now that has had to dump the BMW, New Dodge truck and one of the Harleys because he was living way over his means with his house payment. You know the big house with empty rooms and not cutains because he can't afford to buy the furniture for them. This was the second time he has gone belly up and ends up driving s used Ford till he finds another banks that will bank roll him again. People of America may claim that big corps are greedy but the truth is most of all Americans are greedy from the top class to to bottom. No matter who they are they always want more than they have and they never have enough. No matter how much we have or how well we are doing most of us want the next level. We in this country need to learn to live below our means and not above them. We all ned to learn to be happy with what we have and not just want the next bigger thing. I include my self in this as I think almost all of us deal with this on some level. The middle class to survive needs to learn to live at or below their means and learn to save money as it take money to make money. A good investment account will make more money for the future than a pay raise or a 5 year old BMW. To many today will have nothing come retirement time and will be sacking goods at the local Piggly Wiggly into their 80's The sad part is even if they gave the UAW a raise and other things they want most will not use it for the future and just blow it today. My Grandfather found out the URW did him little for his retirement and he blew most of what he made over the years. We have gone too many generations with out sacrifice and we will pay the price because we are so uprepared for the future. I know these things are true as I am part of the problem just as many of the rest here are.

That sounds correct!

I am not sure myself. It may be..... We don't have a lot of Excitment right now but we are working on it!

If I recall it was an emblem with the red center but in the picture it looks silver with the flash of the camera. I think if you look back at the pics of the car at Woodward it has the red emblem and I think this was the same car.

Not Pontiac but here are some just for fun Two boys looking for Bumble Bee folded under the car Camaro under power Per Scott Settlemire of GM this is the first photo of all 5 gens lined up in one shot at the same time.

It is nice when they open doors, I just wish we could have gotten it unloaded. Large post of the previous photos Transformer Camaro indoors at Summit Racing Equipment Tallmadge Ohio

She may have seen one. We had one at work about two weeks ago. We had the Yellow Bumble Bee Transformer 09 Camaro on display for 3 days and when the Reliable truck came to pick it up on board there was a a Red G8 production car. I think it was the same one from Woodward. We did have a few lucky people that got to ride around the parking lot in the Camaro. Rear shot in Reliable truck Under side of G8 mid section Camaro loading on same truck G8 underside front G8 underside rear Comparing the GTO based Camaro and the G8 underside they were very similar. The GM rep said that the Camaro will differ much more and will be a true Zeta vs an updated old Holden. I assume he ment that this Zeta lite is going to change when ever Pontiac move it to Canada? He said that this car really was more an updated improved platform than new. He stated if the G8 was the new Zeta the Camaro would have been ready to build sooner than it than fall of 08.

Hardtops have ne post but coupes according to Mercedes now can have 4 doors? I suspect this car is doing chassie and suspension work. I already know they have had drive train mules on the road here in other GM production vehicles for a while now. Don't get to excited on the looks of this car in photo's as the C5 did not look like much under the Camaro body they did most of the platfom development. There is a very good chance we may not see many Camaro's covered on the roads before delivery. The first good shot of the C6 was on a hauler filming an comercial in San Fran. If we see anything it will be because GM wants us to or a guy at the airport shipping company takes one for a spin and takes pictures with his camera phone.

I am with you on this one. I could live fine with the I5 but I will never even consider one with the present interior. I looked at 3 ZQ8 GMC's Saturday and just could not being myself to trade off a 10 Year old ZQ8 for the new one. I like my present one better than the new ones just based on interior alone. I would have been just happy with the I6 from the Trailblazer in a Caynon. As it was said it is just a small truck. If I want a Muscle car I would just buy a Camaro. At the rate it is going that may be my next move. This is my daily driver and as long as I have power to pass and to get on the freeway at speed I will be fine. I have no problem with them offereing an 8 but it is not a need for my daily use at $3 a gallon just to get to work.

Between purchase cost and fuel economy I see why the Impala is showing up in so many places for patrol cars.

If you want that kind of money it taker not only a University but a good one, It also takes in many cased more than 4 years. And experience is pricless. The only thing I disagree with is sometimes they pay an idiot to take over. If a company is led well and leaders are making money they give them what it takes. If they are incompitent get them out of the office. Goodyear tire had en idiot for a few years that nearly killed them but he leader they have now is worth his weight in gold. If it was so easy running a large company we all would be doing in the real workd and not just here on the internet. The grass is always greener over the spetic tank ot to a union rep.

As pointed out the Vibe is not a big seller nor a profit center. If a dealer is living off of Vibes he is hurting. Pontiac needs to do a car more in the image of a Mini or some kind of shooting brake off a G6 platform. There are many things they can sell that would do better than what is a under powered crossover. Pontiac could have done a car somewhat like the Nomad but in a more modern Pontiac style. Even based on a FWD with would make a much bigger impact than putting more money into the Vibe. The redo of the Vibe is like renaming the Ford 500 a Taurus little gain for the cash spent. That money could go to a morte worth while venture on a future product. The Shame is Pontiac is selling the cars Satun should have and Saturn is getting the cars Pontiac should have.

The problem is this is not a car that Pontiac needs to represent them as a performance division. THis car would be much better suited to Saturn and should be 100% GM as there is no reason to build cars with Toyota. GM could get great milage too if they put under powered engines in their cars. If this is the most significant car at Pontiac it tells me the GP is long in the tooth and only a fool or fleet buyer would want it now. This shows the G6 missed the mark to claim import buyers. It also says the G5 came too late and to much like a Chevy. The Solstice and G8 represent the new direction and they are are not the car that define the final destination of Pontiac. They both are steping stones. As for the Vibe is is the most non Pontiac of any offered and is only a blip on the screen. Finish the deal with Toyota and move on as GM has the ability to make a better car that fits Pontiac's true image better than a under powered odd wagon. Pontiac is image and performanc not economy and practical. The niche postion should be used for it's strength and not wasted on a car for the average driver. Pontiac was a car for people who wanted to be noticed and stand out when they pulled into to a parking lot.