hyperv6

I am not saying the Vette is too heavy but Chevy it's self is looking at everything to lower weght just. They struly would love to get the car down to 2700 LBS but cost climbs as you add expensive metals and Carbon Fiber. The point is most cars today are too heavy because of safety and cost but here is what is gained in lighter weight. Better controll of the car in Shorter stopping Faster acceleration Better handling better gas milage [yes this is a factor for todays sports cars] All of this is gained just with weight loss and nothing touched on the engine. The only negitives are as mentioned is cost or durability as noted in some past Lotus. Lotus is a extreem example of light weight but it is to the point where in the past they have paid a price of durability so I agree there is some limits but GM still has room to work. I see with the increase use of composites the price fill fall and we will see Vettes om the 2700 pound range and Kappas with 2400 pound range being a reality. He who controls the mass better wins in lap times and over all performance. There is a heck of a lot more to this than just more power and sticking the engine in the back. In GM's case money is an object with Vette buyers as well as tradition that has to be considered.

Why do those who cry the G8 is not a Pontiac not cry out on this vehicle? A rebadged 4 cylinder Toyota is as far from a Pontiac as you can get. To me I am not a fan of this car and nver have been. But It drives well and I am sure it is cheap to build while it makes money in lower volumes at a time Pontiac needs product in the show room. I can accept it for that. I just know this car is just buying time till we see true Pontiac or at least GM platdform taking this things place. Just thank God they sis not rebadge a Scion. I would rather have seen this car do duty as a Chevy or Aveo wagon as it is not really not a performance car but in thruth it is a stylish value car like Chevy represents.

The performance was improved 0-60 even with the 150 HP being lost to the drivetrain. But on the other hand the 1/4 mile was killed by 2 seconds as we used slicks and traction is not much of a factor over 50 MPH. Yje lost HP was felt at the higher speeds. I don't have a problem with AWD on a high HP Vette but the standard Vette needs a diet. You can gain more performance with less mass than anything. As for todays car mId engine is so over rated in a street car. It may have some more edgy performance but few will ever use it to find it. The truth is balance of a car is more important. If the cars mass is ballanced correctly it does not know where the engine is. I own a mid engine car today and it is good and will pull a 1G but it will drop throttle over steer on you in a second if your not on top of it during Autocross. How many drivers today would know to get back on the throttle to keep from spinning out. I think that is why so many Enzo's bit the dust anymore. Even stability control has its limits. Front engine is a badge of honnor to most Vette owners. To take that away is to losse it greatest trade mark and to gain very litte more than a marketing point with just a little performance gain. Get the car lighter or get the traction to the ground is where it is at. Doing 220 MPH is worthless and doing 0-100-0 is going to be more of a guage that real people will see vs magazine test. Besides it would lower lap times at the ring. Most of us only dream of Ferraris where many of us either ownm have owed or will own a Vette. You have to keep the dream alive. Y ou make a cheap midengine you just have a MR2 fighter amd Ford already proved it is very hard to make a affordable super car that is out of the norm.

Thanks for the post but there was no question it was coming. It should be out sometime after AJnuary as I was told they have already trrained many at Lordstown how to work on them. I know a Dyno guy has driven one and said it was fantastic.

Tick Tock Tick Tock That is the clock running till sales run start in January and we get this great car. I saw this one in person in the hauler and while I did not see the inside but the outside and underside looked great. One might note the positive feedback on Autoblog. They usually are GM trolls there. Almost all the comments have been very positive.

A real Saturn and Opel too. :AH-HA_wink:

No LS4 but the 300 HP Eco is on it's way.

The point is your 4x4 is not traction limited on dry payvment coming out of a tight turn. 4x4 and AWD performance cars have different needs for traction. The Vette is one of the fastest cars at the Ring in Germany but a less powerful 911 can run nearly as fast times in AWD as it can take and come though then out of the corners much faster. The Vette makes most of it's time on the several long straights. If the Vette had AWD it not only would have straight line speed but it would also be faster in the corners so it would have massive gains in usable performance. I used the 150 HP penalty as a mark that I know was true on a car we built. It did use some stock performance drivelines from the 80's so I would expect some of the new computer active systems today to much rob less power. Lets face it the new ZR1 will not show all it has as it will not be able to put it down in stock street trim. Using 4 tires vs just two would give it performance never seen in a Chevy since the Cerv II, Duntovs AWD Can Am Corvette Prototype. I was never a big AWD fan till I saw the Vette was going over 600 HP and know the performance gains in acceleration and braking are more important to this car than going 220 MPH.

I see the vette staying mid front engine. I see AWD as a drive train offered on the high end vetts like the Z06 and ZR1 but the base will do with a rear transaxle and a duel clutch that is in the works. A mid engine Vette is a nioce idea but not what Vette buyers want as the engine in front of the driver is a badge of honnor with them. Keep in mind many of the new Ferraris have also returned to Front mid layouts. As for the AWD with the hight HP it is viable as it has some power to give and traction to gain. The 32 Ford we have at work has a Syclone front drive and ZR rear. It is good for 3 sec 0-60 times but the front drive limits the 1/4 mile to 12 sec. The front drive pulles 150 HP to drive it. With out the drive shaft to the front it will run 10's. This is with an engine just under 600 HP Linginfelter SBC on the dyno. It is not real important for the new ZR1 to run way over 200 MPH but it is important for lap times to pull through and out of corners. The Z06 is already struggleing with that now as traction is limited. All the power in the world is no good with out being able to put it down.

Much better than a 5. Never like the rear deck lid or the Dame Edna front of the 5. Everything in the middle is fine. The G8 fixed the problems of the Bangle design.

Well I am not a big AWD fan but here are a few things to ponder. GM has reached the limits of a 2WD system and the tires they have. GM also now has power in the top line engine that can and will go over 700 HP in the near future. Even with electronic aids the limits of the tires are hard to over come and even the Z06 is a hand full with the aids turned off. Since this car is not driven by race drivers but average joes who can afford it and not always control it I can see them looking in this area for the top end car. With over 700 HP plus in the future it can spare the 150 HP to run the front drivetrain and weight. All the power in the world is of no use if it does not get to the ground. The new super vette is entering areas not seen in a Chevy since the Cerv I and II test car. Back then the AWD of the Cerv II had to give the ability to put the power to the ground that the two tires could not.

I agree fully Pontiac needs to offer this but modern technology and Gov reg are forcing them more and more out. Hell Even Ferrari is to the point they are offerning fewer and fewer real manuals in their cars. They have replaced them with semiauto manual that are faster and will pass the regs with no problem. Emissions are the biggest problem but they also can have some milage issues depending on the drivetrain combo used. Electronics and new Autos are not always at the disadvantage they used to be in the milage department. Lets face it too, if Pontiac offers this car with the 2nd gear skip shift the press will grill them. So if they are going to do it it needs to be right. I see no reason other than some additional tuning that is needed to get this car to market. With it already offerd in other markets the hardware is already inplace so just getting the needed numbers is all that is required. At best though I will be shocked if 25% will have a manual in the US market. I may be over estimating considering the entire market is only about 8% and shrinking. The advantage of manuals being better performning is not as much an issue anymore either as the new Solstice GXP auto is as fast as the Manual since the computer keeps the turbo boost up during shifts. Their 1/4 and 0-60 are near identical. This is getting more common on other models too as the gap has shrunk. The bottom line is it is not cost effective to build manuels on most car other than sport models or very under powered ecno boxes. If it was left up to the MFG's most would not build them at all. They sell better on sport models so this is Pontiacs strong playing card to sell more than the average. If you want manuals to remain the best thing to do is teach someone to put down thew damn cell phone and show them how to drive one. The fewer drivers we have the fewer buyers there will be. To keep them viable we need more buyers. So teach a kid to drive one today, tell em it's more fun than texting.

Here is something going around on a Mule and speculation it may be a Vette? This is posted on autoblog.com. Hot on the heels of discovering the next-gen Corvette could be offered with a dual-clutch transmission, word is now filtering out that General Motors may be working on adapting the Haldex-sourced XWD all-wheel-drive system currently available on the 2008 Saab 9-3 for use on Chevy's budget supercar. The Haldex XWD is a robust system, as it can send up to 85% of the engine's power to a single wheel. Auto Motor and Sport in Sweden reports that GM engineers have been seen testing a mule with a wider rear track than any Saab currently available, which suggests the system is already in development for the next-gen Corvette. We're not sure whether to place this piece of news in the fact file or keep it on the rumor pile, as information surrounding the next-gen Corvette has been swirling since GM's contract with the UAW was leaked and revealed some juicy details. Will it switch to the smaller Kappa platform (production of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky is set to switch to the Corvette's facility in Bowling Green, KY in a few years). What about rumors of a mid-engine exotic Corvette to be built and sold alongside the traditional model? There's too much static to pick out fact from fiction, though the dual-clutch transmission seems like a definite lock since it was referenced in official documents. GM, of course, is silent on the subject. I can not say much on the Kappa Vette merge but I do know Jim Queen has said that the new ZR1 has had problems on putting the power down to the ground. They have had to do some special things with a new traction control to make it all work with the 650 HP. He was asked about 700 HP and he did say not in the first year and did not say there was no 700 HP in the future. AWD would save a lot of problems in putting the power down. Also factor in that the SRS and CTS already has it an GM plans on more AWD offerings in various lines. It would be natural to offer it in the Vette.

There will be a manual just not at into as it has some thing that need to be worked out yet. The gas guzzler thing is a problem with the shift it yourself. They will get it worked out and you will and it on the V6 soon eneough. The V6 I expect it will have too little demand for it to make it worth the effort and cost to federalize it. The big problem anymore is so few people can drive a stick at all or even enough to move a car with it. The numbers are even down on thefts as too many can drive it after they steal it.

Where is our Human Time bomb. Even he would have to agree that this is a very well priced car and will sell out easily. The best thing here for GM is I got near $10,000 off on my GTP Comp G that was stickered at $32, 000 So GM did not make much if anything on my car. This car they will be able to sell near or at sticker and GM and the dealer both should do well.

A little high for the V6 as I would have liked to see it start at $26,000. As for the V8 I am pleased to see anything under $30,000. The G6 was over priced n the sticker as $28,000 was more than it was worth. At least the dealers are willing to deal. The G8 is a great price for a lot of car and it should do very well. This is only a car intended to hold us till the Canadian car get produced if all goes as planned. For the one asking about the manual 6 speed tranny, it should be here as stated above.

I can appreciate and know very well what you like and speak of of hard tops. I liked it too but full understand somethings are nust not able to be done at this time or place. In the future with new computer designs and new materials might returned to use the cars we love. But now we have to be realistic and understand we have a company with more goverment reqs and compitition than ever. We also have a company fighting to come back from the brink. The hard top is just real high on the list of to do things that cost money right now. When GM builds a car they have to make some hard decisions and tis was one I am sure they did not take lightly. They have to do what is best for the majority to make a car secsessful. This time the pillar won and the hard top lost. This may change next time? I think most here don't think your wacked over this one point but most of us just hope you understand it is not a thing easily done right now. That is unless you have some way you can meet all the criteria needed to build this that all the good folks at GM has not figured out. You do know the show car is what they would like to have done so your not alone.

I was just kidding when I said that.

For cost considerations the new Kappa had to be shared with another line. Some here thought the Alpha would share the platform but now it looks like there could be some smaller scaled down variation platform of the Vette shared with Pontiac and Saturn. Kappa will never be a Chevy unless they slap a Vette name on it. That is not going to happen. One Two seater is enough for Chevy. This is all about keeping Bowling Green Viable. The nearer they build to 100.000 cars at this plant the better. 2011 is the best time to do this as the C7 and XLR are due for an update around the same time.

No.

I agree with you it looks better and I woulds love to have one too, but it is not guts that limit the car companys. To think anyone GM and Dodge would have not like to do a hardtop is crazy as the show cars show what they really would like to have. The bottom line is in a realistic way is there anyone here that can show them how to build a true hardtop that will have NHV of a post car, cost of a post car, weight of a post car and strenght of a post car. If anyone can show them I am sure you would have a job for life as the best they have now can't cover these points in the box they have to work in. If it was that simple we would have it. No gut involved just limits that can't be moved. To build a true hard top with the restrictions we have today in laws, cost and materials at a low price is like the goverment wanting 35 MPG today. We may get to the point with cheaper composits in the future eill make it possible but today it just can't be done and keep the price low. The options available raise with the price of the car so that is why only the high price cars have it now. In time the use of Carbon Fiber and other items will get cheaper with use in cheaper cars so I do see a time a cheaper hard top may be dueable. So your day may come in the not to distant future Just right now if this car came out higher priced, over weight, with poor crash standads and cowl and chassie shake it would be grilled by everyone and GM can't afford it to fail in 3 and 4 majore areas just for a B pillar.

Enthusiast do not buy enough cars as we found in the 4th gen so this has to be more a sporty car for the all the people. God know coupes are a hard enough sell as it is. Being bold is fine if it is only styling but when it comes to keep the cost to the point you make money and price the product with your competitiors is another. Sorry this is a buisness and they are here to make money. You may roll all your windows down but you are in the minority today. Look around at the daily drivers and just see how many have thier windows down. Just look at any 67-68-69 and see how the door windows are scatched from going up and down vs the rear on most that have few if any marks. Everytime a window is retrated it is damaged and the tell tale signs of damage are missing from 85% of all first gens. I have judged enough Camaro shows to know this fact well as most restore a car but few replace glass. As stated we had 12 hard tops in our family and over 20 if you count my grandmothers Buicks she yearly bought in the 60's. All were daily drvers and seldom were all the windows down. As for sun roofs and NAV both add little weight and do not effect crash standards. Both also drive up profit with little added cost. So you argument does not wash. Come on the pick up comparo is lame I you can do better than that. The bottom line is they had to make some choices and what they decided had to be goo for the majority. If your wish got left out you not in the moajoity. THese are hard choices they had to make and they made it so we all just have to live with it. If hard tops were so easy and cheap to build don't you think everyone would have one for under $60,000? There has to be a good reason Ford GM and Dodge did not build it as if it was as easy and cheap do you think they would have passed it up? I would think not. When only a few high priced coupe come this way should be a good sign it ain't that easy or cheap. This will be a non factor for 90% of the buyers and that is why time and money was not spent.

The vert as 99% of all oher roofless cars are never as strong as a car with a proper roof. That is why even a Z06 has a solid roof. As for weight, GM could give a hoot about weight in relation to performance in the 1/4 mile. It is the MPG they have to meet. If it was just 0-60 they just add more power. But with braking and handling too much mass is a bad thing and not eaisily over come. As for the crap thy have in cars today more people want it than not so they have to please the majority. Also the carp is where most profit is generated. Profit is the whole point of building the thing in the first place. If you are that upset about the pillar your not in the majority of the target group where it is not a important issue. They build cars to make money from the most buyers and that is what it is all ablut not to satify every whim at any cost. If it was that easy to build a affordable hard top Ford GM and Dodge would have one don't ypu think. IF anyone here thinks it is that easy to meet all the demands placed on these cars today and still be able to sell them to the taget market please come forward. All three companies would have a high paying job for you to show them how to do what they can't so.

He now needs to go "Screech, crash, clunk, bam, thunk, boom".

Whoa Whoa hold on GM not once ever promised it was going to be a hardtop. It was never going to be the first affordable Hardtop since 1976. They only said the car would very close to the show car but never exact and they used the word hardtop.