hyperv6

This is not anything earth shattering as we already knew there would be no Trans Am. We also knew THe G8 was it for the Zeta with the GTO gone. We also knew there was a good change the Alpha would replace the G6 in the future without the V8. This is much the same statement as AutoWeek and Please note there will be 12 new and special editions car introduced in the next 20 months at Buick GMC and Pontiac. It was stated in bot storys. A few of those will be Pontiacs. Solstice Coupe or Targa? G8 ST or GXP? Now with that said here is what was in the Aitomotive News. Since Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers are in the process of consolidating their showrooms, many were likely hoping for a halo product that could draw customers into the showroom. Hey, wouldn't a version of the upcoming Chevy Camaro badged as a Pontiac Trans Am revival do the trick? Maybe, but at the NADA conference this week, GM told these dealers that a Pontiac Trans Am is not going to happen. Blame the new, more stringent federal fuel economy regulations for killing off this cool idea. In fact, the new regs also mean that the automaker will be scaling back on transforming Pontiac into a rear-wheel-drive performance division. Though GM assured dealers that Pontiac will remain a car-only brand, the assurance that a debacle like the Aztec won't happen a second time is little comfort to those who were hoping Pontiac would once again be the brand that builds excitement. And who says performance has to be totally sacrificed for fuel economy? New powertrains are being developed that make the most of the internal combustion engine's efficiency, and a twin-turbo, direct-inject four-cylinder can make gobs of power while being much more efficient than an equally powerful V6 or even V8. GM did inform Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers that they would be getting 12 new or special-edition vehicles over the next 20 months. A special-edition GMC Sierra pickup called Pro Grade was mentioned, for instance. Still, the quashing of any hope for a new Trans Am means that the number of vehicles slated to share the Camaro's rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform in the U.S. is dwindling. Only the Pontiac G8 and G8 ST car-based truck are confirmed, with Zeta-based rear-wheel-drive sedans for Buick and Chevy still up in the air. This means that without the ability to spread out costs across a number of new vehicles, the price of producing these vehicles will likely be high and passed on to the performance-minded consumer. [source: Automotive News] The bottom line is many of the worlds best performing cars today are not V8 car. The 4 and Six cylinders are today providing enough power to beat any of the muscle cars of the past while driving circles around them. Hell with only a few mods from the GM perfromance book you can move a GXP solstice well into a reliable 420 HP+ range. Oh and yes you will still have good torque. Many of the smaller sedans will provide us with cars that will run with much of what we have today. Lutz knows what sells and we will not have to give up much in return. But some will have to get over the stigma that you have to have a V8 to have fun. We will not see 1980 again as this is 2008 and we will see all not just GM add many more Turbo's and DI in just the next few years. THese engines will be a far cry from the GN and T types that were not engineered correctly like todays engines. We will still have V8's but they will be the odd engine out and only in more expensive cars like Cadillac or the Vette with much less displacment. Stop the panic as most here are informed enough to know better than the average Motor Trend reader.

First: off this is old news and the press just likes to have a big headline. Second: GM NA was not expected or has anounced they will soon be profitable. The new car lines are just now hitting and it take time to right a ship GM's size. Now if the CTS was a flopped, the Lamdas were just sitting on lots collecting dust or snow and the Malibu sold like a FWD Chrysler sedan this would be big news. We know where this is going and we will be ok in the end. At least GM is not talking to a India auto company to sell Hummer to. Now The Jeep/Mahindra deal that would be Big News. The next big GM news will be Toyota passing them for #1 this year. Another non issue. Toyota is going to win the second 125 qualifying race Thursday too another non issue. THe bottom line is selling profitable high quality cars and we are now on the way but they don't want to talk much on that.

Too close to the 305 HP V8?

I am with you here as Cup Holders, GPS and Cell Phones have caused more problems that good. Whats next an indash microwaves and folding trays. Can't anyone just drive anymore?

Well we all need to consider that the DI in the CTS is only the first in a long line of DI engines we are about to see. We will see more 3.6 DI engines with more power and we will see smaller DI engines still with power that we now get from much larger engines. DI is to this decade what FI was to the 80's. The next step will be a Turbo in the FUture as Ford already has made it's intentions of using DI and Turbo V6 engines. GM I am sure has some in the mix some where. I still believe there will be a low end engine to give the bargine price Camaro. But I also expect a 3.6 FI engine for the Camaro to give a mid range performance option at a sub 30K affordable price. I posted the warnings on my first post due to PHR poor acurate info since there editor was cut off. He spoke out of place when he printed the story on the CAW and the Quebec plant. It was info he was not to have repeated or print due to the sensitive nature of the info.

Photo's are up on Autoblog too.

I knew how bloated and big this car was and expected it would not look good beside a original car. They should hide that picture as it will not do it any good to compare. I just read in the latest Hot Rod they said expected final weight to be just over 4100 pounds. They also said the car was only a few inches shorter than the Charger. Many who have not seen this car in person will be suprised at the size.

As of now you will get only two N8 engines. One will be the 420-430 HP LS and the other Will be based on the new CTS V LSA engine. There were plans for 2 V6 engines but now there is very unconfirmed report that there will be one 300+ HP V6. Either way we will get one 300+ HP engine and with that there will be no mid V8 at all. For myself I would be very pleased to have a V6 over 300 HP as a daily driver. If it was a weekend car a V8 would be great but just for driving to work and enjoying the ride a V6 with the HP near what the last gen car had will do fine. As gas prices rise I will not be the only one. Your loaded V8 I expect will be in the low $30,000 dollar range. But I would not under estimate GM here as they came in with the G8 lower than ever expected and that is a car imported with a poor dollar rate. As for the V6 do not under estimate it as the 3.6 is the SBC of the future. Even Shelby is looking to do a performance V6 for the Mustang. Power is power and some people get fixated on cylinder numbers. Some of the best race engines ever built were six cylinders. FI, Indy BMW, Mecedes and Porsche can stand by that. Never underestimate the 6 cylinder. The truth is the Muscle car died in 1970 and too many forget that. Todays cars are performance cars not muscle cars. To many are holding on to the past that is long gone. Today is the good old days as we have cars today we could not even dream of back then. I have owned a few Muscle cars and they were not as fast as todays cars could hardly turn and never stopped. The only cars from he muscle era that could keep up with todays cars were some of the race cars from back then and even some of them would be shown the way home. To call todays car a muscle car is just flat in accurate and a pipe dream. they are true performance cars that can challange many of the worlds best.

FYI: I do not in any way say this is accurate info as I have not seen it anywhere else. This is just for your information and was publised in the April Popular Hot Rodding page 94. So please no wagering! :AH-HA_wink: PHR Factoid: Not So Fast Camaro Breath If you've been saving your cash for a new V8 Camaro you may have to settle for a V6. Due to tighter Fuel Economy Standards and Planned allotment of V-8s in truck , it looks like Chevy will have to limit Camaro V-8 Production in the first year to just 7,500 units. {[Translation : big dealer mark-ups and long waits.] On the good side, Chevy has killed the lo-po V-6 version, making the $25,000 300 HP V-6 the base model. This may have been partially in response to the anouncement of the 2009 Hyundai Genesis Coupe, which will start around $24900 and be equipped with the 300 HP V-6 and six-speed manual transmission. Take this at face value as I can not back any of this up. It may be like many things we hear and have some truth in it but not all of it. Think of this as just something to ponder till we get more info.

Scott Setlemire said the Camaro will be match as close as possible to the Mustang price points. Form other thing he has noted it will be a little more but will provide a much better equipt value than the Mustang. I expect a Base car [but keep in mind it will not be a stipped car] to start around $24,900 and the V8 around $27,900. By the time you get most of the add on's you will see the price grow to 3,000 or 4,000 more over sticker. While the base car will come in a little more than a Mustang it will have features not even available on the Mustang. In other words for a little more you get a lot more for your money. Tax, title, dealer rip offs excluded.

I place a sliver of truth here and a great amount of speculation. At this point the Impala and Lucerne are either on hold or gone. The Impala was set to show in Detroit this year was a no show so that is not a good sign. The Lecrosse is going to stay FWD so no change here. It is not to long till we see this car. The Camaro can and will be priced with the Mustang as it is too late to change much. The life cycle of this car can go on for a while as the CAFE is 10 years off and I would hope the present car is replaced my then with a 6th gen. The Future may be a V8 only available in a top end Z28 for $40,000 plus and a Turbo V6 in the standard performance package. But I only see this happening if the price of gas move on up or they go to a 6th Gen. The big key right now is if the Impala is gone what do they build on the Camaro line. It is a flex plant but what do they add? The New GMC XT? Scott has also pointed out there Camaro will be exported which eill increase sales and help fill the void by the Monaro based coupe around the world. At this point I would not let this post scare or panic. GM is just trying to map the future out right now and even within the walls very few know what all is going to happen as well what all plans will change again as nothin is set 100%. Just watch what Settlmire and Lutz offer in insite as they are our best place to get info as they are the ones who really know what is up.

I would not panic yet untill you see something from GM on this. Most of this is is so very clouded and there are part that appear not to be true based on what the Fbodfater said last night. He pointed out the plant is a flex plant but no one knows on the outside what GM has planned. THis was in a thread someone claimed the Camaro was going hybrid. He would not say what was not true but the way he stated no one knows inlined that there was a lot of inaccurate info. The only thing for sure is there will be a few changes but untill we get a reliable scource I would not panic yet. I see too many people still posting with authority that the Firebird is comming back but we all know the truth on that. It's not! Watch for post by Settlemire and Lutz as if there is some big change they will be the first accurate posting. Here is Settlmire statment on the hybrid Camaro and this very post. All purely conjecture on the part of the author. Oshawa will be a flex-plant -- so we'll be able to build other vehicles in that plant. CAFE changes everything...........but right now, no one on the outside knows what we're going to do........... Note I do not see panic there as of yet as I have in times there was bad news in the past.

I grew up on Chevys and Pontiacs. My dad had 1 Pontiac and 11 Chevys before before he went Olds and Buick and I have had 2 Chevys 4 Pontiacs 2 GMC's and I will leave out the Fords as one was a first car a all orignal 63 Galaxie for $500 off a old lady, one I married into. I also got to play with all the toys my buddy his brother and dad had. His father who had almost every year GTO., Several GP's and Firebirds. Including a ample supply of Ram Air IV, Tripower cars, 428 HO's and one 455 SD TA. God those cars were a blast. He still has his numbers matching 64 GTO 4 speed Tri power with 60,000 miles. We always said that a Chevy and Camaro's were a poor mans Pontiac or Chevy. FYI; stick a 428 in a Jag sedan and see how much faster it is vs the V12. Also we did not have to worry about breaking down going to school anymore. Pontiac are not just cars but a life style. Or they used to be years ago. I hope the G8 will change that.

CU is a load of crap but if they are saying good things so be it. A compliment is a compliment even if it from a unreliable scouce.

Heck I have Berreta's still all over the rust belt here and they are still running with hundreds of thousands of miles and the last one was bilt in the early 90's. I don't see that from many Civics. I also attend many Fiero events and we alway have a old 2M4 with 300,000-500,000 miles on it. Iron Duke and all. I fully feel Gm has always over looked their longgevity in many of their cars. It is something they should advertise.

Ok I see where I am going wrong the VE is not a Zeta but is a Zeta. I am clear as mud. Ok Who's on first and Zeta is on second. [HA HA] No I really did think the VE was a Zeta but when Scott corrected us and made a point to say it was not and he stresses it was just an updated VX. That is where I was thrown off. As I see it we are see a slow phase in of the new platform and a lot of gray area. Kind of the catapiller to cacoon to butterfly stages.

Not trying to be diffcult here but where am I going wrong. The thought the G8 was a Zeta but I was corrected by Scott Settlmire [Fbodfather himself] that it was not a Zeta. HE said it was a VE and a VE did not equal a Zeta. He pointed out the VE was just a updated VX [if I recall] that was the old GTO platform. I jrust Scott and I also was under the Bumble Bee Camaro at the same time so I could compare the G8 and GTO base Camaro movie car. Both were not so different in design and even some part looke very similar. I was put under the impression the new Zeta's were to come yet and the Camaro would be one of the first full Zeta in NA as the G* was not a Zeta. I was under the understanding the G8 would become a Zeta in about 2 years either built here or in OZ. The Impala would be the first Zeta Sedan in NA till it was put on hold or cancled? Help me I am getting confused here.

You are correct that the new V8 was for the Lamda and it is now going to stay with the 3.6 DI. Many of us all assumed the LS out of the GP would have been the engine but according to GM is is not. This whole project would miss the point on the Lamda as FWD and trucks are just no the ticket. I sould see the Ridge line working well if it has a RWD and V8 option. I has none and has been not been a run away sales vehicle. Also the mid gate is important here as it gives the GMC a useable bed that you can haul a sheet of pjy wood or other Item. There are too many trucks out there that can't carry a 9 foot ladder in their bed but I have a GP that I can fold the seats down and shut the trunk on a ladder or full length 2x4. If this is built the Zeta is the only one this would work on as the Lamda is just not a truck in many traditional buyers eyes. Now here is where I could see the Canyon going away and this taking it's place. GM has already spoke of doing a Smaller truck so could we see the XT as a in between vehicle slotted in the middle of a small and full size truck? Also is ther plans for variations like Holen has done in the past like the Tonner. They have don car based pickups that have have heavy capacity hauling ability and even a stake bed. It ws basedf on their ute but was much more truck like with a bed that was a little more stake bed. Now the ones I have seen were older but a moder version with a more stylish bed could be looked into. IF this is on the Zeta it may not be just be a one trick pony. As for the sheet metal on the G8 it is not a Zeta and has a limited future. The G8 was goint to go to the G8 in a few years so there just might be new sheet metal waiting in the future. PCS claimed the G8 was only going to be around for 2 years but what he failed to tell as he kept saying it was going to die was it could still be going to the Zeta in 2 years. This is something we all knew was the original plan so we should not be too suprised. This also was when the G8 was to move to Canada but no one could ever confirm it. The details are so much in what we don't know at this point. Scott Settlmire made a point to tell us the G8 is not a Zeta but a VE. The Zeta is a different car all together from the VE and will replace tje VE Holden platform.

To think how worried I was if a 4 door Holden ute would sell. Am so glad they did more than a rebadge on this. Now with the G* GM has to totaly different flavored vehicles to chose from.

I fully agree. The two major problems with the Ridge line is the FWD and the interior. IF you have RWD and AWD you can pass almost anything off as a truck. But there is no way in Gods green earth you can pass a FWD off as a legitimate truck to the base buyer. I ponder as some have spoke of the G8 demise in 2 years form Holden is the Zeta still on to move to the G8? Could the Impala still be on but delayed till closer to production? The way it is looking the Zeta is not dead and GM still has plans for it. I submit this GMC as proof it is alive and that it will live at least one cycle till the Alpha or something else takes it's place as a lighter replacement. Either way I suspect we are in for more suprises from this platform.

I thought Lamda too but how would the effect of a FWD truck sit with the American public. The Ridgeline is not a run away sales winner. Many reject it for sereral readons one is the FWD. Besides which one would be lighter Zeta or Lamda? I originally wanted to see something like this on Lamda because I assumed the Zeta was dead. I would myself love to have this kind of truck but if it went FWD I would have no interest. I drive trucks because I have never loved driving FWD and I feel not very alone on this point.

We are looking at the future of the light truck. As we spoke in the G8 thread that things were going to be different. I had no idea this was going to be more truck like than car and only was guessing about the unibody truck. I too think this in some form will be on it's way to production as they would not be showing it. If all Zeta's but the Camaro were canceled they would have pulled it like the Impala. Could we be seeing the Zeta evolving into a SUV truck platform VS a car platform. It is a heavy platform for a car but lighter than a truck. I can see this as a lighter and cheaper Porsche Cayenne if they would make a wagon out of this. The days of GM leaking new cars to keep the faith look to be over and the shows in the future will bring us some welcomed suprises like they used to. I really like what I see and can imagine the veriltility of the Zeta now and how much can be done with it yet. This is all the truck 70% of 1/2 ton owners need. Most are running empty most of the time and as long as it can haul a good load, Tow a trailer or boat and haul people in comfort. Also sell it at a good price with improved MPG this vehicle has hit the mark.

Check out the poste embargo pictures of the GMC Denali XT on Autoblog.com. This thing rules and is a Zeta. Could this vehicle be the base for a new small truck? And along with it bring a wagon that can do more than the G8 Wagon? Keep in mind the G8 is not a Zeta. Could the Zeta not be fully dead year and they are going to get 5-6 years out of it while they work on the new Alpha? GM will have to have something to sell till the new cars are ready. I am not sure what all is done in Zeta but a few I could see get finished to carry GM a few years while they get things sorted out. How would a Zeta G8 be vs a VE G8 Wagon? Could GMC have a Cayenne killer? Porsche just finished their 200,000th one. Like I said before the unknown detail are the real answer and we will have to wait till GM tells us. The XT and the CTS coupe are things we did not expect and are blown away with. We too often anymore have taken for granted GM has already shown us wht they are thinking. For a few year they did show us to buy time when things were bleak, now they are waiting till the shows to show us their ideas. Anyway I can now see Zeta living on as unibody truck for GM. I wonder if they have looked at a Long bed extended cab yet?

Check out the pictures someone ignored the embargo on of the new GMC Zeta. I will not post the pictures here but you cvan see them at Aublog.com Boys I think we are looking at the future and it looks great. We have a Zeta with truck like shoulders. GMC added a hybrid system to this and made a vehicle that would make a joke out of the Toyota and Honda entries in this small unibody truck market. The XT has a V8 and should have many of the abilities of the old 1/2 ton truck but in a more Crossover/Car like platform. I can see this as a way to combate the loss of truck sales and move people to a more higher mileage platform. Now if they could also do this in a long bed with a extended cab.

The news report I heard on CBS radio said it did make 1,000,000 on the original engine but used a great number of trannys as gas tanks etc. They had to give a negitive part to the story. Toyota must be a advertiser??? Either way I have seen many GM cars and truck over 500,000 mile and the body rot gets them long before the engine goes. My wifes Aunt has had several W body FWDs with between 250,000-450,000 miles with few problms and only one engine change on 3 different cars.