hyperv6

Race engines are rebuiilt to keep them in top performing condition for the next event. When points and money are on the line you need them in top form. Infact many of todays race engines can go much longer than ever as they are very bulit proof. They even go several races now in F1. Also they are at time will built an engine very lose to get max HP for a short time. They build them for the race length. What we are getting at is the blocks and heads used today are production based and not some exotic rare part the average guy can't afford. The parts Lingenfelter started with are production parts. In the past we were lucky to get 300 HP out of a full race IMSA Iron Duke and now we are getting 300 HP in a stocker. WIth some mods we are now getting power only V8 could do just a few short years ago. You can hold the Evo up as the first but it was never cheap. Today the same perfromance can be found in car 10K cheaper. 150 HP is impressive no matter who is doing it. But doing it affordably is even more impressive. GM doing it right is not impressive but shocking. We all have seen how it always took 5 years to get some thing right. Untill Buick did the water cooled intercoold GN the3.8 Turbo would burn up a turbo bearing in just 30,000 miles. Once they spent the money and did it right we had a very good engine.

Tell him to call a dealer and complain if he has rust through. See if they react like Ganley. The Paper is on the web they should have the story there.

This is not a Motor Trend Fable. It has been well know GM was going to go to 300 HP but we just did not know when. 320 HP legal power is also avaiable per past show cars with production parts. [The Gold car]. Johin Lingenfelter before his passing raced for my Company and was well on his way to over 2000 HP with this engine using the Saab Castings. They went to the 3.6 V6 and were just over 2500 HP. These engines and Turbos make it possible to do many great things. These are not the T type Turbo's of 1978. I can see well over 400 HP avaialable from the 3.6.

Motor Trend is reporting the Soltice and Sky will get the much expected 300 HP Ecotec Turbo next year. Here is what Autoblog reported. Sporting a specific output of 130 horsepower-per-liter, the turbocharged, direct-injected Ecotec four-cylinder from GM that's featured in the Pontiac Solstice GXP, Saturn Sky Redline and SS versions of the Chevy HHR and Cobalt, is already one heck of an accomplishment. But wait... there's more -- power that is. According to Motor Trend, shortly after the Solstice Coupe goes on sale next year, the blown-Ecotec could make 300 horsepower or more, putting it in close competition with performance stalwarts such as Nissan's Z. What's more, the same engine should also be available in the convertible versions of both the Solstice GXP and Saturn Sky Redline as well, paired only with a five-speed manual tranny in all applications. This is just a rumor at this point, but MT seems pretty confident in its validity, citing higher intercooled boost along with a new fuel rail as the tech behind the power increase. The rumor does not mention if the higher-output mill will appear in other applications, though we remember something about the Camaro possibly getting a turbo-four mill as an option, and a tuner-friendly option offering 300 galloping horsies in stock form would make for a very interesting option in the pony car. 300 HP has long been expected and I had one heard a GM employee also say it was coming with the Targa. Well the Targa is on for 09 too. So it looks good.

In today's Akron Beacon Journel they reported a local Toyota Dealer [Ganley Toyota] had discovered 1995-2000 Tacoma pick up trucks with frames rusted through just in front of the rear spring mount. They included pictures and all. They say Ganley found the first one last fall and now have 20 broken frame trucks on the lot. Toyota has sent in engineers and have been looking into this. Here is the odd thing... The trucks are worth about $3,000- $5,000K and Toyota is paying over Blue Book for them. Some of these trucks have 200,000 miles and they are giving $11,000-$12,000 for these trucks. I know companies will do some good will but if one dealer has 20 trucks already and of the 800,000 [Thier number because I don't really know] built in those 5 years this could get expensive for some good will. I note also that a co-worker of mine has a 1990 Toyots that also is broken in the same place. This may be worth watching as I have seen Toyotas rust out badly every where else but I have seldom seen a truck frame rust in half. This could be a major black eye for Toyota if this is wide spread in the rust belt states. No recalls and this is only being handeled if someone comes in and complaines.

I agree on the Buick as a GNX just does not fit where Buick is going. A Riv is more in line. As for the G8 Coupe vs CTS. The Caddy Coupe is much more expensive once you get the V8 by about $20K. You may get one in the mid 30K range but it will be only a V6 and not loaded. As for calling it a GTO. If you go that route be prepared as you have one more chance at a GTO and if this fails you never going to get another shot at it. It would be more wise to save the GTO name for a later car that is not as much a risk. The coupe market now is getting tighter and tighter. If the G8 pans out they could do a more uplevel car and call it the GTO with more HP.

I is not April Fools as it is more a power play to get the public to back those who support this car. If we let it be know we like and want this car the 60% against Lutz and friends will have to back off. This car would pick up where the Camaro SS leves off and stop just short of the Z28. It would be the Professional Perfromance car. If anything cars like this that make good impressions on the public are just one more foot step back to general acceptability. You don.t need to put that full burden just on the Vette or have to build 100K of these. This car will show how serious GM is and help bring people into the show room. I think the new improved styling will win over many as I think the public is generally getting tired of generic Asian look that has degraded to the look of a old Saturn. In a couple of years the reliability will show GM is back in the game all the way around. WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE PUBLIC IS GOOD FOR GM!

Most Zeta programs were on hold and not so to speak canceled. May say Canceled but the truth is once on hold many programs can go either way.

I wondered if they were trying to gain support with the showing of the 60 Coupe. It is not a good Policy to show a car that has no chance unless you have a motive. While odds are still not the best at least there is some hope. I so like the fact they will not use the GTO or FIrebird name for this car. It will not be a long life and better to save the names for a later program. Besides it eliminates the "It does not look like a GTO or FIrebird Bit#hing.

In todays market it does not matter to 75% of the BMW owners what their car can do at the track or in a curve. It is what it can do for them at the Mall or Resturant. It is all image today in this MTV cribs society. There not slapping on 30 inch wheels on H2's to improve the off road ability. GM now has the cars and now needs to market their way back into having the cool got to have image. If anyonw here thinks it is going to happen over night is just fooling themselves. It will take time to prove the cars will hold up and it will take time to convince many that it is cool to own American again. A odd as this spot is as was the latest commercial they are hitting with a younger market and the ones who set the tends. Pontiac will never be saved by those who bought FWD Grand Am's or GP's. It will take new blood. While I don't like the marketing I think they are going in the correct direction as people like me don't need to be sold on Pontiac as I am already there. The people they need are mostly driving cars from Japan and can 't afford a new BMW but would like to have one.

There just at that age where they are becoming a great buy. There are a lot of low milage examples still sitting around in garags. I just saw a 1988 Fiero GT 5 speed for $16K. More than I would pay but for a new car you could buy it and drive it for a long time and get 24 MPG with no issues.

They have not built a Muscle car since 1970. The cars today are perfromance cars and the Muscle car term is for those still living in the past. They can call the Camaro anything they want at the enthisiast knows what it is. But those the unwashed masses that think a Mustang convertible is cool because it is cute will be more interested in the gas milage vs V8 power. These are the people that have kept the Mustang alive for years as they buy most of them in the V6 mode. I spoke to one of the people in the group doing feed back to GM on the Camaro. While I was not given any new detail [it is a family Friend and I don't want anyone to get into trouble] I was pretty much clued in that GM is looking at every angle to market this car to just anyone who can drive. Old, young, Retro, Ricer. Male, Female, Tech, Non Tech, Racer or Nurse, ETC. This car like the first gen needs to appeal to a wide group vs the last gen that was mostly a male performance driven group. As for the G8 Appealing to the BMW crowd. I think too many misunderstand that GM does not expect to keep anyone from buying a 5 series for a G8 but there are many who are driving much less expensive Camry's and Accords that would love to have a car like a 5 Series but can't afford the car or the the price to fix it. The G8 is a car they can afford and not have to worry buying a used BMW and then have to pay the big price to fix everything. And don't say it does not happen as I have seen many a used BMW buyer with gret regret and a car that is not drivable. Many times a used BMW is like a Cheap Ferrari not a good bargin.

Ok, I will try this from memory as I don't have the time to look all this up right now. If anyone can correct me feel free. I know there were 8 Ram Air III TA convertivbles made. 7 of these are accounted for. I also did a quick check and found 87 Ram AIr Ho were built in a 1969 drop top. Ram Air V was a over the counter head package that Pontiac did sell. It ran very large tunnel ports and was good at high RPM but suffered at low RPM. These were not great street engines. They were used on mostly racing applications of 303,366,400. The 303was to have beren a Trans Am SCCA race engine and the 366 Was to have been used in NASCAR and I think was raced by David Person in a GTO for a few races. There was some use of the heads on a 428 and it was called a VI and VII but they were very limited and for drag racing only. I think Arnie Bestwick used these in his Funny car. There are many of these still around. I have a family near me who are into Pontiacs and have built a couple of these engines and dropped them into GTO's. Custome S convertible there were 2,379 in 1969 W 76 Goldenrod Yellow was a special order color and much brighter than Mayfair Maize. Daytona Yellow was the special order color in 1970 on the GTO seen on several Judges. Vedero Green was a GTO, Lemans and Firebird color. I think you could also get it on the big Pontiacs too. It was a very poular color then as is now. Mayfair Maize was the only Yellow in 1968 and the first bright yellow was the special option Goldenrod Yellow of 69. I hope my info is accurate and helps. And again if I have anything wrong anyone feel free to correct as this kind of info is hard to reacall correctly with out looking it up.

I don't expect anything much till after the election. They are all out for the eviro vote. Once they get elected it will be back to what ever fits their need best. Right now with the economy it is not a good time to get oo crazy on the auto industry. At least that is what I think two of them will do. The third is a wild card and some of the people backing him are not buisness freindly. Either way DC will drag their feet on this is my gut feeling for a while longer. GM at this point has to set dates to decide to make moves with their present platforms and where they are going to spend their money to get the most out of it. The longer DC drags this out the less chance of new Zetas and a better chance GM will put the money into new platforms. Just my guess. I would really love to see a 60 coupe for about 8 years before the regs kick in.

Ok lets save the hate for bad jokes, stale beer and Mustangs. Now back to the G8. I don't know if they will go with the Coupe now and the later it gets I see the effort going to the Alpha that can and will live on past 2020. I just see with the hold the Alpha changing like the Zeta did to be more adaptable and expanded to more vehicles than originally intended. With Ford looking at a lighter platform GM is sure to invest in a lighter platform as they continue to sell the Zetas till they will be replaced. The only thing that would save Zeta long term is if they can remove weight and not kill the good prices they have. I just read about the new SAAB XWD and though that could make a good Pontiac platform if they can pice it right. But I am not sure of the cost of the drivetrain system.

DP I am impressed with your knowledge of Pontiac history as some your age do not know what a Tripower is. I am also impressed with your love of the Bird and Pontiac in general. Now here is the other shoe. I don't care what you drive or want. We here repect what your choice is and I never once suggested that you buy a lower end counter part, I only gave my opinion and that was it. It kind of goes like this, you epress yourself, I express myself and we can discuss differance of opinion and the like. But the bottom line is repsect others and they will repect you here. If I feel the GTO is stiffer [due to no t top] I have a right to express that and it is my opinion, not a comment to you or yours. I also know the 4th gen Camaro is no less or more a car than the Trans Am/Firebird. I myself prefer the TA but know and accept the Camaro as a sister car with only some body changes, and interior trim. In the past the difference was greater some years but never too much. You may not want to agree and that is fine. While you may find it hard to accept Too many people seem to think "well it's the same thing" and "they steal sales from each other" It is clear to many very informed people here and to GM that your not correct here. Or did you not know the original plan was to sell the GTO as a longer wheeel base Zeta with more upgraded options at a higher price to give Pontiac a coupe but not one that would be nearly the same as the Camaro. Tha GTO was the Manaro 60 coupe just shown and canceled. Right now the Zeta program is in flux to say the least and adding a sister Bird right now is not a priority to sell 40K cars. You have to think with your brain not your heart to pick and choose car lines. GM does not take these things lightly and only was doing what was in the companys best interest. A car like a new Bird could help GM a little in sales and profit but if it fails it could hurt it much more than it could ever help. Right now they have a priority of selling a V6 Camaro. Heck Ford even dropped the Capri for the same reason. I think you should heed Camino's words and take a breath. We are all GM fans here. We may have some harsh words at times but we are also the first to defend. Kind of like a family. We so have some people here involved in many parts of the industry and even one of the best spy photgs around. There is a lot to learn here so read a lot and try to learn how we operate as this is not like many other idiot site out there. Most people here understand how the industry works and we do not go off on a lot of goofy things, We deal in a lot of facts and reality here and don't get all goofy over the latest fake chop photo of a car we know GM will not build or where to bolt our neon lights. With your knowledge and understanding your amung friends here you should fit in well. You will not always like what you read and can present you proof why we are wrong. But be prepared to back up any claims you have as we like what is said backed up.

I understand your love for the F body. They are good cars and the 4th gen was the best they have offered for the Bird. I have driven, raced, autocrossed and enjoyed everything from 67 400 birds, 74 455 SD, to 4th Gen Camaro and Firehawks. I know each generation is better and stiffer but the problem has always been either the early unibody or the later T tops. This weakens the car and flexes a platform more than anything. GM did a good job but there is no sub for a solid proper coupe to provide a good platform for good handling and a solid feel. I am not saying the 4th gen was bad but the GTO had a more solid and quality feel. I have taken both the GTO and Z/28 4th gen around the cones hard and the F body will give you a death shake under extreem connering with some sticky tires. It will make the corner but it will shake. But to be fair it was a t top car and can not be compared equally to the GTO coupe roof. I know the solid roof cars are much stiffer but still the GTO was a more solid car. 45% better than the thirds but the thirds were horrible for flex even in a solid top. But to be fair most 80's cars were. I have a T top car myself and if has some shake but for the open air that is the price you pay. Anyway I agree the F body is a very good car but it is far from perfect It was a good car in the 90's but it ain't the 90's anymore. Would I own one yes but I would also be realistic like most other cars and admit it is good but not perfect like many cars. Again time has moved on. I work in the aftermarket industry and know shocks and the other parts to fix all that F bodys needs. I know their good side and I know what their weaknesses are. The GTO is far from perfect as a car but it too is a very good car with a very very solid platform. A solid chassie is required for a great handling, driving and riding car. GM got better with the F body over the years but time moves on and many of todays cars are moving on. Just wait till the new Camaro appears and you will be shocked at what all it will do. This car will have things that the 4th gen never got or had. Scott Settlemire has promised this car will supass anything before and none of us will be disapointed. With a name like F bodfather who is to disagree. The G8 is only the start of the new Camaro as the new Camaro will take this even to the next level.

Thanks For the review. Most of what I have read all agree with you and many say it is the best ponitac since the 60's. I have been in around and under the car but not yet driven one. If it is an improment of the GTO as I expect it should be a winner. The GTO was a much more solid car than the 4th Gen F body, there was little chassie flex. I am expecting that same feel with the G8 of being a very solid car. I agree the interior is not the most stylish but it is very comfortable. Even the back seat can take a 6+footer and make them feel comfortable. I hope to get may first drive soon.

I agree less is more. The smaller teeth really help. Now they only have to power the rear wheels and hook it to a 300 HP 3.6 S speed. The new SAAB AWD would fit this too! They need to give it what Chevy and Saturn lack. What kills me is the race car with the factory wing and the race wing on top of it. I hope the rules required that as it did nothing for the looks of the race car.

To start I am a coupe guy so don't class me as a hater. But I understand that is what the buying public wants. GM is only going to build what sells and coupes outside the present Mustang are not high volume cars. The Camarom Stang and Challanger are only going to account for 300K cars. Compared to the total number of Camry's alone that is not a large number for 3 popular lines of cars. As for Lutz you had better learn who he really is and what all he is doing. He is as close to Delorean as GM has seen since the 1970's. He has no hate for Pontiac he really likes Pontiac but the truth is Pontiac is not a priority for GM, Cadillac and Chevy are profit centers. You have to run a company with your head not your heart. Now that things at Chevy and Cadillac are in motion GM can start to look at Buick, GMC and Pontiac. You now have to consider them as one as they will each have several models that will fill special niches that they could not before as a high volume line. High Volume is not a priority where as special niche cars that turn a profit at a lower volume now are. Lutz does not hate the bird but there is only room for one car like a Camaro and the Camaro has always sold more cars and the name while not much higher does have better recignition. GM had the luck of having two very good cars over the years but they have room for only one and Camaro is the first stinger here. There is a lot riding on this car and it needs to work. Selling a sister car would do little to help and only take away sales from the Camaro. The Bird was more a Camaro premium model and always the nicer of the two but the new Camaro will fill that roll today. I think your going to find if approved the new Alpha Pontiac may make a better G6 in the future as the present one is nothing but a high way car and not a curve burner. Their is a lot to come we have not seen yet if the Economy does not kill Pontiac first. I think you will find cars like the WRX sell as much for the performance as they do for the Hot Wheels cartoon looks. Styling is temporary where performance last forever in the public eye. If you want Pontiac to live they need cars and models that give great performance but are not shared with Chevy. Pontiac for too long has been nothing but a fancy Chevy and they deserve better. Pontiac can live very well with 4-5 models but they need ot be better than a Camaro clone as they have been..

Wow what a post. I bet your under 30 year old and not too far out of High School but we are glad you love Pontiac and have rejected Honda. My commnet is not to offend but we all have been there. I understand you feelings and thoughts. I even agree on a few points but I hope you sped some time here and learn what todays market is all about. Pontiac is into sedans as they are 85%+ of the market. Most of us here like Coupes too but understand they have to build what the general public wants to buy. As for the show cars making it to production. I don't know what you expect? THe Solstice , Sky, SSR, Camaro, The new CTS coupe and more all have kept even more than could be expected styling from the show cars. The reason you have as much as you have is people like Bob Lutz who has made the styling teams keep it as close as possible to the original concept. Before Lutz the Solstice would not have even happened let alone be that close. As for the G6 It was a pre Lutz car and has been upgraded to be better but it was too far along to make any real changes. While better than the Grand Am it is still behind the Aura and Malibu in overal quality and build. A second Gen will fix that. As for the G6 GXP ... the sooner it dies the better. Bad wings fake scoopes, poor quality interior and the buck teeth did little to help it. We have many people here that either work in the auto industry here or have great knowledge about it. I hope you take the time to follow what they say and the information they have as there is so much more to building cars than just doing a cool design. Don't mistake our comments for hate as most of us are die hard Pontiac fans. I have been around Pontiacs all my like, driven most all years of GTO's and Trans Ams. I even show and have 5 first place wins in class at the Pontiac nationals and have contributed to some storys in High Pefromanc Pontiac Magazine. Many of my friend own 421 SD cars and one even has the Ventura that was runner up in Detroits NHRA's US Nationals 1960. Pontiac is in my blood. But likw others here we know Pontiac is struggling and know they have to do better in a tough market. We may not like all the changes but Pontiac needs to draw in people who have never owned a Pontiac before or they will die. It is that simple as there is no longer a large enough base to depend on.

Because 90% of it was shot by a guy post on the Camaroz28.com web site with is video camera on his motorcylcle. All you would have gotten was wind noise. HE did say the car was a V8 manuel. He also said the guys driving it claimed it was more quiet than the production car will be as it does not have the production exhaust yet. GM has spent a lot of time on the sound of the car and I assuem they don't want it out yet.

Here is what GM's Scott Settlmire [FBODFATHER] has said on the latest sound bites that people have taken wrong. Scott S: Many quotes -- and more misquotes in the past week. Do not take everything you hear as gospel......some quotes were taken out of context -- others had numbers and such wrong. Premium.....the V8 Camaro will not be $37,000 -- if it were, it would bomb. It will be affordable and it will be in Mustang territory. "Premium" could mean a few hundred dollars...... We think you're going to be pleasantly surprised at horsepower and torque numbers -- fuel economy - and standard equipment -- (Or -- Good ole fashioned 'bang for the buck' ...) This car is going to have some details that 'surprise and delight' -- ...... You've heard me say this before and I'll say it again......there is a lot riding on this new Camaro -- and some of the best in the industry are working on it....... Have I lied to you yet?????? Now-- go forth with your enthusiasm -- (but when you hear some high pricetag put on the car -- don't believe it -- the LAST thing we'll do is price it.........) (by the way -- the "!2 disciples of which there are 15" will be coming to Detroit in May -- and they may have some impressions for you once they return home.) (.......that is, if we can get them to stop grinning wildly....) One of my friends is one of the chosen 15. I have know they were goiing back in may and get to drive the production car. I was not sure if or how soon they would be able to talk about it or some of it once they get back. I have gotten few details but I will once they are permitted to speak. I have got a lot of cloaked hints and cut short comments that mean nothing now but will once the facts are spilled. THis will be their second visit but they have been giving feed back all along. GM has really taken this car seriously. While I am sure we will always have a few that will complain [you can't please everyone] about something the majority will be happy with the results.

Does a slogan really matter as long as they start to give us cars like the G8? That car and the Solstice coupe say we are starting to bring better cars just as the first CTS did for Caddy. They can make what ever slogan they want but till they get at least 2 more good none will matter. In todays market product speaks louder than any cheesy markting slogan. A replacment for the G6 and G6 would domore than any words can say.

Scott Settlemire has confirmed this is nothing but Marketing and nothing more so don't get too crazy! GM just can't let the Camaro only be seen as a performance car only as it will automaticly be eliminated as a efficent daily driver from many potential buyers list. Do they really think they need to market this car to the performance people???