hyperv6

Ok I see your wisdom. Let see the rules were changed and oil prices are off the chart [neither GM could have predicted] So GM decides not to put any more money into a over weight car thast would only sell for a few short years to a limited group of buyer? Zeta may have not completed it mission here but it has done well elsewhere and it has paid for itself. By putting more money into it here for a sort term deal it would never break even for all that they would sell. I agree the G8 will be phased out but it did not cost much to bring it here and the work was already done. Second the V6 proigram was in place long before the oil price hike and CASFE changes as if you knew so much you would understand the V6 Mustang has been the back bone of their sales. For once the plan and timing of pushing a V6 program in the Camaro is right on the money. They are not brain washing anyone they are just tring to reach more buyers as in the 4th gen they coulod not give away a V6 and not enough people would buy the V8. I knew 2 years ago that a 300+ HP Camaro was coming and stated so right here. This was long before any dark new to change GM's plans. In todays market to put out any more 2 ton plus cars of any kind that sell for less than $40K is nuts unless your a high line brand. If you can sell a Silverado or F150 the most popular brasnd what make you think you will sell tons [pun intended] of a large Buck. After an start up run on it it will fade quickly and sit on lots much longer than your cold Saturns. Few people will be spending more money for the next 1-2 years on large cars. The market is going to be soft and even lower gas prices will help in the short term. GM needs to make the best and most efficent lighter car they can right now as that is what most other compnies will hove or already have. I would love the Zeta to continue but this is a place to think with your head and not your heart. In the last yerar we had two major changes happen that are game changers that GM could not forsee or change. Adapt or die.

Buick is not dead... a little more delayed but not dead. As for the wisdom of not moving ahead with the Zetas it the end it will prove to be a wise move. Why put more money into a platform that will not live very long, is over weight and to make it right has to be more than a rebadged Holden. You can sell Truck and even the 300 Sales are not staggering. So it is time to take a step back and do this right the first time. Just because the Zeta is canceled it does not mean RWD is gone. A enlarged Alpha can be done easily at the point it is at right now or a sister to the CTS would also make a very good Buick. It takes litte imagination to understand the options they have. As PCS has pointed out the new Invicta will show how far a Delta II can be pushed so a Lighter and a little smaller Buick may just fit the bill very well. As for the G8 it got a pass just because it was a rebadged Holden. FOr what little cost to make it a Pontiac made it a no brainer to move ahead. Also the Camaro is in a Class of it's own. It will sell V8 engines no mattter the cost of Gas to the enthusiast while the V6 program is going to pretty much back this car. You will be shocked at the V6 program once it is anounced. It leaves off where the 4th Gen SS left off. At this point how many of the true Lutz cars have been very far off the mark? It is time for many to start trusting in what he is doing as he has now given proof he has got a clue to what people want. It is better for Buicks health now to build for 10 years ahead vs getting hit like they did with a lot of 2 ton Duce and Quarters back in 1973-76. Back then it took them 5 years to pull ahead and in the end ended up with much better cars than what they had. Time to trusting in Lutz and company. This is not the same group of Roger Smith idiots we had before. Would you ever had though anyone could have converted the Malibu back into a car people would demand just 2 years ago? Or offer Saturns people would really want and not just be the only car they could afford.

Ok why are so many shocked and upset? Most here are smart enough to have know this was going to happen. Second let GM lay out what they plan to to as they did not kill this car off with out some kind of a plan. GM did not waste a Billion as they have already sold this plaform in many different forms world wide we just got only two of them. The fact is GM got burned in the past while still trying to pass of large heavy American cars in times of high gas prices or shortages and they will not do it again. They can't affords to do itr again as the last time it opened the door to MFG from Japan andf this time it will ber China/India. Zeta may have worked in the short term but they need to start now and with the money they have to work on a long term solution. GM is having trouble pushing their most populatr vehicles today [trucks/SUV's] due to gas prices. Do you really think a RWD Buick would do very well long term? Just as the G8 and the new trucks those who want it will buy and sales will fade away over the following years. Zeta is just too heavy and I am sure GM is either looking at a Revised Zeta that is lighter, an expanded Alpha or some new platform we have not heard named yet. In the end we will get a lighter car that will be better to take on a the future market. Either way to continue the car as it is for only 3-4 years would be a waste of money and is not a long term fix. Lets hear at least what they have to offer before anyone jumps out any windows. You might just be suprised what you might get. Now if they follow this up with a very poor plan they open the window. The bottom line is don't over react and act like a GM Insider expecting a Firebird anyday..

Guess they have not been inside my 04 GP? The G8 is a giant step up from my GP that stickered at $32,000 [Which I paid no where close to]. While the G8 is not perfect it is a improvment. Also the G8 reflects the BMW of which it as has Mercedes never had what I would call a great interior.

I may have a line on why the Manual tranny is not out yet in the G8 or Challanger. I sat in a meeting to day with two guys from Tremec and they told us about the new tranny for the Camaro that will be used in the Challanger and Mustang also. The new tranny is a TR-66 and is a T-56 but only stronger. It will also be offered in the aftermarket [hence why I was there]. Either way this will be a step up and most of the new cars will get it if they have a V8 application. I would expect the Veete to will ge a form of this improved tranny.

The only thing wrong with the SS is it looks like the old car too much. For the improvment in performance they needed some other changes to the looks to let teh unwashed GM fans know it was better and faster. .

The UAW is on it's last legs like the URW [united Rubber Workers] were right before they had to combine with the Steel workers due to lost members. These guys are entited to a fair wage and that is it. If they want more they can go back to school and get a new career.

The video can be seen at Autoblog.com. John makes a lap of the Ring look easy. Please note the car is very smooth little drama in the tough corners. The car is very quiet for a at speed lap. The car is stock less the safety equipment. John hits On Star at one point. Finally please note this was an automatic not a standard shift car. So could the the standard shifter be faster yet?

I drove a Impala, Lacrosse and GP all back to back and have to say I don't think many in the main steam public would know they were all sisters under the skin. The Buick was a shock as I own a 04 GP and the Rode better, had a better ride, much quieter and had a much better interior. Add into that the 3.6 had as much power as my 3800 SC and did not sound like a dish washer. I know it is a old car in platform terms but Buick did a great job. Right now it is a steal at the marked down prices it is going at. The delay and redesign of the Lacrosse that Lutz required shows. If they can do this on a old platform just think what they will do with the new Invicta.

Check out the short Video on Badboyvettes.com. The ZR-1 passes a car doing around 150 KPH with a video camera like a F-22 in super cruise going past a Piper Cub. If you stop the video you can confirm it was a ZR-1 but other wise it is a black blur going by with a loud American roar.

The problem right now is not GM is giving the platforms their own look. The problem is now GM that GM is giving too may models of the same platform. Saturn really did not need a large Crossover. Buick I am ok and Chevy I am ok. The GMC is very nice looking but I think they should just keep them to trucks since Buick already offers this platform in the same dealership. I think those who did buy a Saturn would just buy the Chevy and the GMC would buy the Buick. If want divisions to be different don't over do it by making a version for every dealer. Even worse to use the same platform more than onece in a BPG dealer. GM would be best suited to offer no more than 2-3 of any platform in any market. Spread them out over the divison an taylor them to that division. Also use different drivetrains in the same platforms in that market. Say like using a more standard Ecotech in the Chevy and a Saab base Turbo Eco. in a Saturn. Then apply a Saab AWD in the future Pontiac G6. GM has a big box of good product and they could do a little better job of mixing it up and give us combos not seen in many other GM cars.

I would not be suprised if they come up with a car nearly the same size and much lighter. CAFE is not the first time we though all was lost. If they even made a RWD Malibu G8 with RWD and a Turbo 3.6 the is so much a car like that could do while getting better mileage. I too have noted no one negitive review by the main stream press. The G8 looks like another hit for the Lutz Era. The only complaints I ahve seen are no GPS and the Digital gauges in the center stack. Neither are deal breakers if you want a car like this at a great price.

There is a lot more going on behind the doors of the Japanese companies than you hear about.

At this point Pontiac needed the new line up 10 years ago. Also Pontiac has been pretty much been a non division since the last Firebird. Now that Pontiac does not have to support an entire dealer network on their own and it has bought them and Buick some more time. Between the two of them there are enough vehicles to last a good while longer. Once you look at the present Buicks and Pontiac models that are available, together they have enough offerings that will let the dealers survive. As new models are added they will begin to recover step by step or model by model. I think we are not seeing a lot going on at BPG because Lutz understands that if he just continues to throw more rebadged Chevys into the dealers it will just finish off whats left. Flawed product is worse than no product in todays market. I do not mean to say the rebadged Malibu is a flawed car, but what I mean to say it is not what Pontiac really needs. My guess is Lutz wants every model, evey move and every dollar spent to count. Right now Pontiac just can not afford to put anymore G5 type cars out if they want to be seen as taking a step back to recovery. Right now they just do not have the new platforms available to move ahead yet. No RWD Alpha or even Delta II if they do remain with any FWD Cars in the line up. Pontiac needs to move forward on new platforms right now and there are none fitting what they need are here yet. From now on for Pontiac and Buick to make it each new model must break new ground and be a step forward. No latteral moves here anymore. The new Invicta is a leap forward of the Lacrosse and is removed far enough from the Malibu to make its own way. The next G6 needs to make a statement when it arrives and GM know that. The G8 is a great car and is doing wonders for Pontiac's image but GM knows the money car is and will be the G6 replacment. They need to get it right! You can drag up all the old names and argue what to call them all you like but it is the product not the name that sells cars. The average buyer wants affordable quality cars and really don't care what they are called. They relate to Accord and Camry because of their rep and right now old Pontiac names just don't invoke quality or reliability to many unwashed non GM buyers. Remember you have to sell to more than just Pontiac Fans. GM has one ace here and that is styling as most of their new cars trump most models from Japan. Honda could not style their way out of a corner and Toyota is not any fashion house either. With styling you can get them to look and then with each and every year GM has to earn a rep for qaulity. No one sells a quality rep it has to be earned with the public's trust over time. It is the show me and prove it before I lay my money down concept.

I just wanted to wish a special holiday today to all of the Mothers out there, including you PCS....

Hence again you need to give thenm a chance on the G6 and if they even replace the G5. This is a work in progress and the are not or represent what Lutz wants. We need to see what he wants and gets before we get to excited. With the BPG group it will be much easier and cheaper to Market and build the image on 12-15 total models verse the up to 25 pluse models there used to be. Defining Pontiac with 4 true performance models will prove more convincing than trying to market Atec's, Montanna's, Torrent's, T1000's, G5's or ony other non performance vehicle as a performance vehicle. To sell any of these and some of the other non performance cars is enough to make a marketing rep jump from the GM tower. Shadowing Chevy will not savew Pontiac but being special and different will. I am willing to see if Lutz gets what he wants before I pass judgment Pontiac will fail. As for Buic the more they share with China it lowers cost here if they can share the models. This deal is sweet like the Opel Saturn deal as it reduces the development cost on a larger scale with global platforms. I would not be suprised if the G6 is replaced with a car shared with Holden and not sold by other division here in the same package. We will need to wait and see. As for my other friends comments on living in the past. MayBach did have some ties to Mercedes long ago and the original car was like the German Dusenburg. But from what I can see few really car about the heritage today as few people remember or care in this what have you done for me latley world. Maybach may not be around much longer as they are cutting bach and failing. The new Maybach is just like Pontiac. The Maybach is a fance Mercedes that cost more. Few find it as a needed car as the Mercedes will do the job for much less with a remebered image. I was on onther web site where many people wanted to argue on bringing back the TA. I was shock to find most of them were younger and the 1980-90 is all thge performance image they know. I trew out names like Bunkie, Delorean, Tri Power, Duel Gate Shifter and They had no clue. Several did not knowe what a Tri Power was so this leads me to believe living off past names and images of the 60's-80's is a dead horse at this point If you have to teach many potential buyers your history you wasting your time. If you have to sped time educating them teach them on your new perfromance image. Todays people 40 and younger are all about what have you done latley and have little use for the past. This is why they jump from Hionda to Mitu to Subaru for performance cars there is little loyalty and it is about who has the best of coolest car. I want more than a hand full of 50 somthings buying Pontiac to just relive their past. The key here is the G6 will get their attention but the next G6 needs to come along soon. The present G6 GXP is so not a perfromance car that stands out in a crowd for the right reasons. The Performance Bling cars today are seen as a Joke. That is why so many bought cars like the CRX in the past as they coiuld make them fast even if they were not the coolest thing on the road to look at. It is ok to remember the past as we should but to relive and depend on it is a path to failure for Pontiac today.

You also have to consider the timing and replacment of Pontiac lines. The G8 and Solstice are only the first two steps toward a focused line up. We also would have a G8 coupe to add if not for CAFE. I believe we had more in the pipe line before the Cafe Challange came about. Pontiac also has taken the lead on getting the SUV's out of the way. I would give the Targa a full point as it is a step in good faith for Pontiac to move ahead and not only give us a coupe but a targa at that. Again special product only for Pontiac and the US market. The key still lies with the G6 replacment. Will it be special and a true Pontiac in the American market or will it again be a rebaged Malibu? The rebuilding of Pontiac will not be wasy or will it be quick. It will be done model at a time. The thing that will permit this is the fact it is rolled into Buick which also in the rebuild mode one model at a time. By rolling Buick, Pontiac and GMC into the same group they will not only play to their strengths they will also buy time to repair a lot of damage. As of now even if they killed off Pontiac they would still be spending as much on the Buick line as they are going to be spending with Pontiac and Buick. When we think Pontiac we still need to and should think performance. But now It is important that the old time Pontiac Enthusiast reset his old image of Pontiac as they need to move forward into what performance is in the present market and not what it was in the 60's and 70's. The Muscle Car is dead and has been dead for years and now it is a performance car. It must turn, stop, and accelerate well. It also is not required to have a big engine or V8. RWD is a must as would at least one AWD. I also see a place for one FWD but it must be the best in it's field and nothing less. Pontiac needs to adopt the standards of the GM Performance Division for all models and nothing less. I woulod see nothing wrong if they even gave control to John Heinrency and his group to over see all of Pontiac's models and not just the GXP line. With 4 strong models it would not be impossible for them to do. GM PD still could tune the SS and V cars but Pontiac could be their own line as in the Benz black series.

I think you should also qualify this too. 5-10 years ago Pontiac was also a full range dealer as they had to be. They had to offer all thing to all people. Today with GM tring to reduce the models but keep brands alive it has given the gift to Pontiac to be able to focus on 4-5 cars at best and make them the performance brand they want and aspire to be. Let Buick and GMC take up the SUV and low end Luxury market. The negitive side is we get less Pontiac models but on the up side we get more focused and more real performance grade cars that live closer to the Pontiac image they have always aspired too. Pontiac is more like Cadillac in a way as it no longer has the need to be a high volume brand and a be all it can be brand. GM is getting to be like a Mechanic with a box of specific tools for every job in the right drawer doing the right job the right way. When in the past GM and Pontiac had become like like a Multi Tool or vise grips where it did all the jobs but only have assed. GM right now can do what many other car companys can't and that is to focus brands to specific markets. Other companies with only 2-3 brands have to more far reaching and more deluted. GM's past weakness can now become a advantaged if mangaged correctly. I have always prefered to use the correct too for the Job and with the new Gm models it is more reflecting that. The only FWD suited for Pontiac would be a Cobalt/HHR SS based Mini Cooper type cars for the low end. Having driven the HHR Turbo SS I can say a small FWD Cooper like car would fit the Pontiac grade. But no plain jane G5 cars that shadow the Cobalt. A Pontaic FWD would have to be special and not a rebadged Canadian Pontiac Chevy. This car would share a platform but not the body or styling. The only thing wrong with the Torrent is it is not a Pontiac. It is nothing but a rebadged Chevy just as the G5 is. A good Chevy but not a Performance imaged Pontiac. Fancy Chevys do not make Pontiac's. Camino has the right idea and I can see he understands where Lutz is going. Change can be tough to take but once you get thorugh the transformation and see the results all will be much happier. After reading Mr De Lorenzo rant. I can see he understands some of where GM is going but he only sees a part of the full picture. Once the plan all comes together we will be fine. The G8 was not the car expected to save Pontiac but it was the second step after the Solstice. The car the replaces the G6 is the key car that will define Pontiac. Lutz came too late to do much there so he will make his mark on the next one. With every new model GM brings out it is one step back. They have had few misses under Lutz.

On Autoblog it said the video is soon to be release. I would watch Autoblog as they carry most of the video's

On Autoblog it said the video is soon to be release. I would watch Autoblog as they carry most of the video's

GM has release video and lap times of 7:59 at the ring in their 550 HP beast. To put it into perspective the M3 ran a 8:05 and M5 ran an 8:13 if my report was correct. The Caddy was stock less the roll bar racing seat and required GM safety equipment. It is said to be the lap record for a stock sedan at the Ring. John H and his performance group has done it again. I suspect the ZR-1 will live up the the 7:20 estimates and the new Camaro should be sub 8 Min laps with the sSUpercharged engine and just over 8 Min in the SS Camaro witht he standard 400+ HP engine. We just got the Cobalt SS at 8.22 and HHR SS at 8.44 so GM just keeps em comin.

The El Camino name was never in the running. THe last thing Pontiac wants to due is be compared with Chevy while shanging their image. As for the name the CTS has proved a great car will sell no matter what you call it. It is the product not the name that makes the car. The name is only frosting on the cake. Slapping the old Pontiac names on these cars will make very little differance. Most younger people could care less about names like Bonniville. I am not a fan of the G names but I do not support slapping old names to new cars either. It is time to make new Ledgends. Thank God Bunkie changed names in the late 50's to change Pontiac's image. I would have hated the BOnniville then to be a Silver Streak or Super Chief.

Here is the problem guys the Cobalt right now is a really good car. But it looks just like the old car. The SS is the performance buy of the decade right now but until the next gen come in the unwashed non GM people will over look this car. The new Focus does very poor in the comparo test and most panned it styling. What it is offering is not performance or styling but economy. Not just in the fuel milage area but in a great number of features along with a cheap price. Lets face it this is the car you buy your girl when she gets her drivers permit in high school and she drives it off to collage. In this market Price is everything and the value is balanced with the features offered. GM needs to offer the next Gen Cobalt with a lot of featured in a basic mechnical package to keep the price down. This is the formula Hyundia has ridden to great growth on several market levels. This is the key to Chvevys future as a Value leader. They are doing this with the Malibu and HHR now. So I expect the CObalt package will improve as it is upgraded.

I must have been lucky as my 97 Sonoma is tight and solid in the interior. The inside I could complain little about it. The biggest beef with the 97 Sonoma is the door hinges. The raqin water drains right on on top of them and I have to oil them a little more often, other than that only the brake pad wear was poor till I put EBC pads on. Now they are great. The rear shoes are still good at near 90,000 miles. If GM would sell a truck just as I have now with updated V6 I would buy it in a second. The only beef with the engine right now is the power. I wish it was more near 250 HP.

While an unknow and odd name to Americans it should have as good as of a chance as any. I am sure GM still owns the rights and that is half the battle.