hyperv6

This is the real question. Would EV cars be where they are at today if the government has not forced the issue in some places with Zero emissions and government funding on kick backs and department of energy loans? If the EV car was so perfected and superior in all aspects would counties like Norway have to pass laws to force nothing but EV cars? While the issued have forced the EV to where it is at today it is still not where it should be to satisfy everyone reasonably. If a product is right and good generally it does not need laws to help it or government kick backs to pay for it. A lot of ground has been gained but there is still work to do. Like I have said they need a balanced approach to all types of power and auto usage. Not one will be a fit all for everyone even in the distant future. Too bad we can't get cars to run on BS as Washington could power us all for a life time.

You... you mean like cars? At least cars hold their value after the initial depreciation. Cell Phones and lap tops are generally worthless accept for the Apple offer at the store for a used one they scrap. Then there are trucks that generally hold their value very well as even a fire wood special with the bed head together with a chain in place of a gate can still bring $2K.

They are in trouble with the car lines. It was clear long ago that they were delaying the LX replacements and that the new Giulia has had it's problems. The way I see it now they have abandon their smaller cars and are looking for a partner. Sergio is wanting to leave and run a separated Ferrari now. I see some kind of deal where a Maker from China comes in and takes over the car lines. I suspect this also is a smoke screen here as I think they really are not sure what they want to do. Of late I keep seeing web sites putting up the Lutz version of the Charger saying the new car will look like this. So you tell me they are going to use a design from how long ago for a new car? I don't think so. This i will really hurt as this segment is dying as it is not only a Niche and it is being left to rot. Thing are so bad the Challenger is now not even compared to the Camaro and Mustang as one story pointed out that it lost to the old Ford and Chevy and had no reason to test it vs the new models. Imagine the out cry if GM of Ford had let one of their models rot. The Hell Cat I think was just a cry for help from inside Chrysler. You know he folks in Auburn Hills can not be happy with the FCA people and Sergio. They see the money Jeep is making and they see so little of it back to them. That is just a crime. The Future if there is one should be through Chrysler Dodge, Ram and Jeep for FCA but as it is they will die do to Sergio trying to save the Italian brands no one wants. .

While I agree with the first statement above, unless manufacturers POINTEDLY install OBVIOUS obsolescence tech, the fact that the vehicle is powered electrically should not incite mass 'this is outdated, gotta get a new one' mentality in the market. Phones incorporate a LOT of fleeting tech & apps which yes, are subject to superficial judgement, but these types of features in vehicles are pretty much independent of the power plant propelling such. Phonesa re also a HELLUVA lot more affordable than cars- most people don't shoulder a loan to own one. Even subsequent generations of EVs that have improved range still should not see mass incentive to upgrade… this is in the same vein as IC vehicles' MPG improvement in subsequent gens. It's not usually enough to cause a trade- the costs are too steep for most consumers. I think what you miss is that EV is only at the start of the learning and investment curve where IC is at the end. With a EV we could be just months with major improvments with technology investments or we could be years it all matters on how it progresses and that remains the great unknown. . Based on other electronics I suspect that will see much greater changes in the EV auto than we have seen year to year in a IC car. Also electronic today fail after so long with age. or they just get old and incompatible. Unrelated and those supposed "hurdles" are no reason to stop pursuing the current EV path. IC, like the horse and buggy, will be a passing thought eventually. Not for a long time still but it will happen. That's the nature of technology and progress. There is no reason not to keep pushing the technology I never said anything close to that. I just don't think we should put all our eggs in one basket and we should keep working on ICE, EV and even Hydrogen. The ICE is far from dead and not quite the Horse and Buggy. The simple fact is until the EV is better in every way than a ICE it is still just an option not a primary in the market. Prices need to come down, batteries need to get better, infrastructure needs to be built up and the cars need to be able to be recharges in the same time as a fill of gas to satisfy most people. There is a segment of society that hold great fascination for the EV and are willing to put up with the in-convinces. A larger segment can not afford them and even more really have little knowledge on them if any interest. This will take time to change minds. The more and better product will do that but it will still take time and even better products. The simple fact is EV cars are coming but keep the spade in the shed as it will be a good while before they toss the last scoop of dirt on the ICE. The market will be a mix for a good while yet.

While I agree with the first statement above, unless manufacturers POINTEDLY install OBVIOUS obsolescence tech, the fact that the vehicle is powered electrically should not incite mass 'this is outdated, gotta get a new one' mentality in the market. Phones incorporate a LOT of fleeting tech & apps which yes, are subject to superficial judgement, but these types of features in vehicles are pretty much independent of the power plant propelling such. Phonesa re also a HELLUVA lot more affordable than cars- most people don't shoulder a loan to own one. Even subsequent generations of EVs that have improved range still should not see mass incentive to upgrade… this is in the same vein as IC vehicles' MPG improvement in subsequent gens. It's not usually enough to cause a trade- the costs are too steep for most consumers. I think what you miss is that EV is only at the start of the learning and investment curve where IC is at the end. With a EV we could be just months with major improvments with technology investments or we could be years it all matters on how it progresses and that remains the great unknown. . Based on other electronics I suspect that will see much greater changes in the EV auto than we have seen year to year in a IC car. Also electronic today fail after so long with age. or they just get old and incompatible. Unrelated and those supposed "hurdles" are no reason to stop pursuing the current EV path. IC, like the horse and buggy, will be a passing thought eventually. Not for a long time still but it will happen. That's the nature of technology and progress. Great point, like the horse and buggy that is still used today, the 1940's was a turning point for many in going to the car and yet not until after WWII did the car become de facto standard. Bigger question is will it take 50 years to go from hose n buggy to petro auto for ev auto to replace petro auto as the common auto? Me think about half that time if not less. 10-20 years at most. The change over depends on the technology and how it meshes with the everyday lives and needs of the consumer. Some folks can live with it today with no issues but more could not or just refuse to as it would require them to change their daily habits. The goal is to make a EV that would not change the habits or life style of a ICE owner. We are not there and the Volt is a compromise that price has held back. We will get there but there is not real time table as development comes at it's own pace. It could be 5 years the break through happens or it could be 25 years. Case in point I would not mind to have an EV to drive to work. I have a place to charge it and it fits my pattern of driving. Now for weekends and trips No Way. I am on the run and very spontanious and would hate to be restricted by the charging times. Note also I would resist fast charge as it degrades the batteries at a faster pace.

Yest here on the east cost we pee faster than 30 min to make it to Florida in 16 hours. It is a choice of life style and what you value. Nothing wrong with either but like I state one system at this point is not a one thing fits all. Sorry I do have to go and work on the race car. Damn thing is expensive and runs on neither gas or electric. When we got into soap box derby I thought it was like 500 and all is good. Well just coasting can put a car over $1500 or more depending on your paint. LOL! I need to get some photo's posted as we did a bitchin So Cal Belly Tank theme. We have a big race next week and I have to decide what balance we need to run. It is a real crap shoot since this is a new car. I will try to check in later. My surface plate is in front of the garage and I have to get it on the scales before it rains again.

While I agree with the first statement above, unless manufacturers POINTEDLY install OBVIOUS obsolescence tech, the fact that the vehicle is powered electrically should not incite mass 'this is outdated, gotta get a new one' mentality in the market. Phones incorporate a LOT of fleeting tech & apps which yes, are subject to superficial judgement, but these types of features in vehicles are pretty much independent of the power plant propelling such. Phonesa re also a HELLUVA lot more affordable than cars- most people don't shoulder a loan to own one. Even subsequent generations of EVs that have improved range still should not see mass incentive to upgrade… this is in the same vein as IC vehicles' MPG improvement in subsequent gens. It's not usually enough to cause a trade- the costs are too steep for most consumers. I think what you miss is that EV is only at the start of the learning and investment curve where IC is at the end. With a EV we could be just months with major improvments with technology investments or we could be years it all matters on how it progresses and that remains the great unknown. . Based on other electronics I suspect that will see much greater changes in the EV auto than we have seen year to year in a IC car. Also electronic today fail after so long with age. or they just get old and incompatible. I think I misinterpreted your 9:26 post. Agreed that as EVs age, they will be of very little value. Even basic battery-powered low-tech items, like cordless drills, are cost-prohibitive to keep running, batteries are discontinued/harder to get, and the performance drops off. Meanwhile a corded 25 yr old drill just keeps spinning for decades on end. Is the EV akin to the cordless drill? Probably. The problem there is, along with the supposed influx of autonomous driving vehicles, it will continue to sap all the emotion out of automobiles, making them more & more disposable. I have to disagree with you Balthazar and this comes I believe from my working in the Computer industry as an engineer and always being asked to think outside the box. EV's open a whole new world to the auto enthusiast. Without all the liquid issues, we have plenty of room for people to create and build performance electric motors to replace existing OEM motors and as EVs become more common and we see how OEM auto builders tend to go with their solutions, then you have 3rd party startups that can build and expand on what the OEM has built. Perfect example of this is a company I found while looking at electric axles. story posted to the alternative fuels thread: Electric Axles and the 4WD Ford F150 EV! This company I found, Protean Electric builds a complete motor, regenerative brake system that fits behind rims 18" or bigger and allows you to drop the whole power train, driveline, axle and allows one to create a unique AWD system. Why do I bring this up? Performance, creative choice, so many ways for a custom builder to build a green auto that can have a large range of power and mileage. As I stated in that write up, you CANNOT get the torque out of a gas motor that this electric solution provides. Ford F150 with the following: 2,300 lbs feet of combined torque from a dead stop 448 HP from the combined 4 motors Read the write up and then tell me your thoughts? I really think if we embrace thinking outside the box, we have so much potential in having some amazing rides. Think of your favorite older ride, clean no petro, plug it in too recharge and yet just goes with plenty of getup and go. As battery tech improves you can change out the battery pack, as companies produce more powerful electric motors, you replace them also. Even in traditional auto's, there are so many options now of powerful electric motors that challenge petro in performance and yet make it much easier to maintain. Yes you Make Valid points about cordless drills versus corded drill, yet I have had both rebuilt when they wore out and in many cases like an auto, just replaced with a newer more powerful version and recycled the older version. Everything wears out eventually, but I do see a cleaner nicer planet with EVs especially as solar and alternative energy platforms emerge and grow. It comes down to a life style thing and values. What do you value more and what changes to your life will a change from one to the other entail. The fact is the Gas F150 has enough torque to get the job done and it can refuel fully much faster on the fly that is important on a trip or for a company that is on the road all day driving. An ev will not fit their needs or lifestyle. On the other hand the guy who tools around town and does not travel long trips the EV would be an easy change as long as he has a place to charge it. Here is the big delema. In many large cities where people live in apartments and park on the street they have little in the way to charge. But their driving in Say NYC best fit the profile of a EV owner. On the other hand here in Ohio we all have garages and can charge every night. but we also do a lot of cross country driving. Things are much farther apart. We also do not want to sit in say Nova Ohio charging for several hours as there is just nothing there. This paradox is very common and will need to be over come with continued investment in EV cars and infrastructure. Once they get a battery to charge in the time of a fill of Gas it will be a more level playing field but when is that going to happen. 1 Year? 5 Years or 25 Years? This is why we need to balance this out and continue with both sides.

They sure do have the ability to do this and more. The suspect the penalties will be heavy if caught cheating. It has been a while but i read up on how Oregon was already working on this on gas cars because of lost tax money on higher MPG cars. They all are in fear of the 53 MPG in 2025 as much as EV cars.

While I agree with the first statement above, unless manufacturers POINTEDLY install OBVIOUS obsolescence tech, the fact that the vehicle is powered electrically should not incite mass 'this is outdated, gotta get a new one' mentality in the market. Phones incorporate a LOT of fleeting tech & apps which yes, are subject to superficial judgement, but these types of features in vehicles are pretty much independent of the power plant propelling such. Phonesa re also a HELLUVA lot more affordable than cars- most people don't shoulder a loan to own one. Even subsequent generations of EVs that have improved range still should not see mass incentive to upgrade… this is in the same vein as IC vehicles' MPG improvement in subsequent gens. It's not usually enough to cause a trade- the costs are too steep for most consumers. I think what you miss is that EV is only at the start of the learning and investment curve where IC is at the end. With a EV we could be just months with major improvments with technology investments or we could be years it all matters on how it progresses and that remains the great unknown. . Based on other electronics I suspect that will see much greater changes in the EV auto than we have seen year to year in a IC car. Also electronic today fail after so long with age. or they just get old and incompatible. I think I misinterpreted your 9:26 post. Agreed that as EVs age, they will be of very little value. Even basic battery-powered low-tech items, like cordless drills, are cost-prohibitive to keep running, batteries are discontinued/harder to get, and the performance drops off. Meanwhile a corded 25 yr old drill just keeps spinning for decades on end. Is the EV akin to the cordless drill? Probably. The problem there is, along with the supposed influx of autonomous driving vehicles, it will continue to sap all the emotion out of automobiles, making them more & more disposable. I don't disagree at all. That is why I stated they will be much more like a Lap Top and I phone in the future than cars. Just the nature of Millennials and electronics will take this path alone. You will not get away with 5,000 miles. I am sure other states will also tax you too. Most cars now can report the mileage via satellite with no problem. Hell GM tells me how much oil life I have left on my I phone now. Big Brother has been in your back seat for a long time and most people have no clue what all he can tap into if he would like.

Just wait till the government starts to charge you by the mile on the taxes they are losing on fuel now. Higher MPG and electrics have them all scrambling to take the tax by the mile. Also factor in the greatest cost in Fuel now is state and federal taxes and that is not going to go away. What about areas that have electric issues like in LA. In heat waves there are brown outs now what will they do when everyone starts plugging cars in? They are way behind on everything and solar and wind is not going to do it alone. What about the damns being torn down and not replaced? The funny thing is that you seem to think that the current fossil fuel/oil situation is a bed of roses and not every bit as bad as this doom and gloom you cast over electric cars. It is not perfect by any means but our lives have been built around this system for 100 years and it is and it flows with out lives and does not change the way we live or our daily habits. On the other hand EV are still new and in development. They are far from being non lifestyle changing at this point and many things in our society will need to be invested in and changed to deal with the new technology. HD TV was a simple change compared to a EV and many people still struggled with it as they had to change their cable or dish and invest in new equipment that until a couple years ago was no where as cheap. All I profess is that in all things we continue to invest but we do not kill what we are living on now. We need to make the change to where it is more accepting to the general public and will not change their daily patterns and habits. You do this they will be more accepting of the new technology and the change over will go much easier. Right now EV cars are not universally loved and accepted by most buyers. Also I caution that the EV is also by some being made to be the cure for everything. Well sorry it is not. There will be issues that will come along that will needed to be dealt with. Also the promised savings is not going to be as great as some make it. I expect that Electric rates will continue to climb, Taxes will be as much or more and the cost of the infrastructure will continued to be factored in. The fact is even now Gas is cheap considering what all it does and as of now it remains the cheapest and most fitting for most peoples live styles. Also we are not going to run out off oil any time soon. That fable has lead many on the wrong path. But we do need to continue to invest in all types of power and use a balances approach. Not only for the need of acceptance but also for the economy and our place in the business world. The green factor will take years to kick in as it is not instantaneous the savings as the investment will remain high. So do not try to label me in either camp. I believe a balanced approach to both needs to be maintained. Getting off oil is like getting off Heroin. Cold turkey could kill you.

They already have that figured out several ways. They only need to decide what to do. No one is going to get away with this easily.

While I agree with the first statement above, unless manufacturers POINTEDLY install OBVIOUS obsolescence tech, the fact that the vehicle is powered electrically should not incite mass 'this is outdated, gotta get a new one' mentality in the market. Phones incorporate a LOT of fleeting tech & apps which yes, are subject to superficial judgement, but these types of features in vehicles are pretty much independent of the power plant propelling such. Phonesa re also a HELLUVA lot more affordable than cars- most people don't shoulder a loan to own one. Even subsequent generations of EVs that have improved range still should not see mass incentive to upgrade… this is in the same vein as IC vehicles' MPG improvement in subsequent gens. It's not usually enough to cause a trade- the costs are too steep for most consumers. I think what you miss is that EV is only at the start of the learning and investment curve where IC is at the end. With a EV we could be just months with major improvments with technology investments or we could be years it all matters on how it progresses and that remains the great unknown. . Based on other electronics I suspect that will see much greater changes in the EV auto than we have seen year to year in a IC car. Also electronic today fail after so long with age. or they just get old and incompatible.

Just wait till the government starts to charge you by the mile on the taxes they are losing on fuel now. Higher MPG and electrics have them all scrambling to take the tax by the mile. Also factor in the greatest cost in Fuel now is state and federal taxes and that is not going to go away. What about areas that have electric issues like in LA. In heat waves there are brown outs now what will they do when everyone starts plugging cars in? They are way behind on everything and solar and wind is not going to do it alone. What about the damns being torn down and not replaced?

I had to LOL. TV aint free.....we pay for cable. (and netflix and hulu which we don't use much), radio ain't free.....I have XM in both vehicles.......LOL I test drove a 2017 Volt today I'll write that up, so its interesting to talk real numbers of cost to run. My take is on this the ominous take though. The current paradigm is that 'the man' gets a certain percent of your net income every month for gasoline. Every person is different, and gas prices fluctuate, but for the sake of argument lets say a lot of people spend 200 to 400 bucks a month on gas when its like 3 bucks or more a gallon. Take that one step further and for some people that could be 5-10% of their monthly net income goes for gasoline. RIGHT NOW, electric may not come close to that, but THE MAN will find a way to cut into your wallet the same percent over time. Demand for electric will go up, and a combination of real costs needed to pay for increased power generation will be one thing, but pure common greed of charging more for something everyone 'needs' will push that price up more. It's basically going to come down to pushing the limits of everyones wallet, they will push the price of the power as high as they can because they know people can bear it now. Somehow over time, TCO will morph out to be the same. Maybe the vehicle will cost more, maybe the insurance will, maybe the fuel will. But i tend to agree with hyper, i don't look to much in the way of the savings argument over time. So enjoy the cheap running costs for maybe what, 10 years or so. Once we are all latched to the outlet, the savings will become less real. Exactly the price of electricity will find a way to go up as demand grows. You can figure if cars go more to electric they will not just let the price sit there as in a capitalistic system they will raise the price. Be it going to regulators to demand higher rates to upgrade systems and also the buying and selling of power between companies. Also do not for get Uncle Sam. He is losing out on gas tax money and they are already putting into place systems to tax you by the mile. Yes they will get you per mile. Now consider that the largest part of gas prices are state and federal taxes now. You can figure your Electric car operation cost will rise just due to the taxes alone. Life ain't free and they will find a way to charge you for just about anything anymore. Sure there will be some odd ball with his own wind mill pissing off the neighbors but powering his car this way. They will replace the guys running on Mc Donalds fry oil. I expect battery replacement will not ever be cheap as if your battery dies the car will be worn and out dated and would it be worth the replacement? I see electric cars as being much like lap tops and cell phones. Most will hold little value getting old as they will be the old models no one wants as the ranges will be shorter and the technology will be very out dated in 5-10 years. Like now many lap tops the batter cost more than it is worth to replace in some lap tops. You can put a new battery in but the model is old slow and some times not willing to work with some new operating systems. Planned obsolescence will really take hold here. In the end the operation cost may still be a little better but as a whole I expect them to be about where the market is now. Companies and the government are not going to lose the income they have now and will find ways to make sure you still pay the load.

Is electric a traded and marketed commodity? Yes The supply and demand controls the price? Yes The more we move to all electric means will drive up demand? Yes The supply is growing at a slower rate than demand? Yes. What happens when demand out strips supply prices go up. Just as the oil markets were created in the 70's and oil became a traded commodity we will see similar actions with electric moving forward. It will matter little where it comes from as market will determine the cost. Electric companies buy and sell electric all the time. Just as oil America uses little from the middle east as only a couple east coast states use oil from the opec countries. But price of the market is driven buy all markets and the demands and supplies of oil globally. Electric is this way now but to a smaller degree. You add more and more demand on the market and slow growth of supply the prices will continue to rise no matter if you get it from coal, hydro, nuke, sun or wind. Drew they may tell you all of yours is wind driven but it is the same crap in the line everyone else is getting. As you know the line to your house is not directly connected to a wind mill. You may be paying a supplier that makes their power that way but yours may be coming from a coal plant on the Ohio River just as all your neighbors do. The free market for energy is a two edged sword. You may get by on cheaper energy but you also run the real risk of suppliers controlling the markets globally and raising rates for everyone. I really expect in the end there is not going to be any cheap energy utopia as there is too much money to be made globally. Also add in the power factor as the countries with power will hold global dominance. The ones to have large cheap supplies will be able to make things cheaper and sell it to those of us who have regulated ourselves out of the market. The redistribution of wealth is all very real and green energy is taking down the old players as others like India and China are taking full advantage of now regulating themselves. This is a very big geo political topic that is much more than could be covered here. The long and the short of it. I do not expect ownership of an electric car in the long run to save me much money in the future. Nothing is free or cheap anymore and it will only get worse. We used to have free TV gone, Free Radio now they have ways to charge you for that. Even free air to fill your tires is now more a memory. Things will continue to improve our lives but there will always be a larger price tag along with it. Hell I just bought a new $3,000 fridge but it is so efficient that the new models will not last 10-15 years anymore. The damn thing will do just about anything you want but again a price to pay is no cheaper in the long run over my nearly 40 year old unit that is still working fine. I plan to keep it as you just can't buy them like that anymore as it works great but just does not match the new kitchen we are putting in.

If I am buying a EV SUV I would be just fine with good acceleration and toss the rest into better and more range. If I want to go fast I am not buying an SUV or EV in the first place.

Yes the frosting is off the cake. I should make up Tesla Shirts that say A$$, Grass or Electric no one rides free. The free is going to go away as Tesla has to start making money and these add on items are where it is at. The S model people paid for the Superchargers in the price of the car and just never knew it. Nothing in life is free and if it is then odds are no one wants it like Pickeled Herring. Tesla is in a bind. They have put out billions and not yet really seen much return on the investment and even the 3 is not going to be the cheap car that it was made out to be. Yes it will be cheaper than a S but not Cheap as in Bolt Cheap with all the options. People tend to not understand the Bolt comes with most everything while the Elon basement price is going to be bare bones. Even he said $35K is not going to be the price by the time it arrives. He went on a media blitz again this week promising people to Mars by 2025 and that the three styling would be done in 3 weeks? Generally even GM has the Show car done before they show it. I figure he will proclaim himself Tony Stark next. For growth now Tesla is going to be like a car trying to go faster. The First 100 MPH is easy but the next comes at x to the third power and the next 100 MPH is x to the sixth power. Unlike his rivals he has nothing else paying the bills but brain washed investors and risk taking speculators that will grow tires at some point if they do not see a return. If they do not get this return they will bail fast to make their own return. Look for free superchargers to go away and free over the air updates to vanish. I expect they will sell packages with the cars to where you can get them for free if you pay up front. Tesla may be different in some ways but Options are still the place all makers including Tesla make money. The key to the Superchargers is they are more plentiful than any other charging system. If you plan to travel away from home they are one way to get there. Other wise between the oceans there are few other options and will be few moving forward for a good while as so little investment is going on in charging stations in most areas. In Ohio there are very few options and we are one of the most auto populated areas in the country. There are just not enough cars to make it a good investment yet as you will have to ride out the time till they become more common. Also you have to pray that there would be no other breakthroughs that may move the auto in another direction. Better investment in the cars is only half the battle the other in going to be the infrastructure. Musk was doing well to start this but it has slowed as his money was going else where in Tesla. If you are on the west coast you are golden in most areas but else where no so much. Local use is fine but trips are out for many especially in many areas where there is no plug in's. I think this will help with GM and the Bolt as it is mostly considered a commuter car. Also I am sure they will offer charging at all their dealers like they have with the Volt. Not a pure solution but a good use of too many dealers.

Because it is the progression of marketing and odds are the next performance model not mentioned yet at Holden will be even better. It is not to secret that the C7 will get a mega car before they move to the C8. Word is it will have well over 700 HP.

Regardless of what it looks like in China it was not one of the best GM efforts for the American market for the price slot they were targeting. While it does not need to challange BMW it does need to be better looking and more different than the lower models that do look similar. I as have said the same as Drew for a long time. They need to focus on the Audi/high end VW models and be the affordable euro like sports sedan that Pontiac always tried to be but never came close to being. Delorean has visions of Pontiac challenging the models from Germany with an American car that could compete. With Opel/Buick there is no reason why they could not do this and even offer some of the OPC models here. Buick in America has no limits that they have to meet and can take chances on lower volume models and grow appeal that is a Anti Asian like car. Even China like the Euro thing as they still hold a grudge against Japan for what they did to their people. Buick needs to be more than just a gussied up fancy Chevy like Pontiac was restricted to being for too many years. I feel the new Regal or what ever they will call it may show the way forward with their thinking as it is a true Opel Buick model. The Lacrosse has not shown their global intent but the Regal replacement will being shared in Europe and with Holden.

The AC in the stop starts I have been in never were an issue. The only real noticeable thing was the tach dropping and a little jump on start up that is no longer an issue. The first one I drove on a truck I was expecting it to feel like the car stalled and it never did. That was long ago too and the newer systems are much better and only getting better. Like I said I am not a fan but I can not bad mouth it because it does work.

I think you will find much more of the Opel coming to Buick as we go. Dropping the Verano does not mean we will not see other cars filling this gap much more effectively. While the Verano did ok it did not change a lot of hearts and minds. Now if they chose to bring the more Opel version here with a hot hatch and other versions they could market it much more effectively. I think the simple 4 door sedan was just too much like Chevy. Buick is looking for slots where Cadillac is not and Chevy just can't go easily. Also they will target niche models that sell in greater numbers in Europe and will not be as much a risk here should they fail. Buick is going to go places and do things you have not seen American automakers go and take risk we have not seen GM take in years. They will be much more progressive in their attempts to be different. You have to look outside the box here. This GM is not the old GM. This GM is more of the nature what will do a modern Z/28 the right way like they have and again are doing with the new model vs. just adding IROC stickers to a car and calling it upscale. The problem of the Verano while it was a better Cruze it really was just a better Cruze and not a car true to it's own nature. Buick is going to be more than just another up scales Chevy as they and Pontiac had been.

You do realize quiet, luxury and sporting can all go hand in hand. Audi does it well. As for Lincoln a good hard piss could blow Lincoln out of the water.

Sedan sales are stuggling in all brands. As for 32K units that is not even enough to pay attention at this price point. Volume at this price point is key. Generally they would want 75K and up.. Some models like The Cruze twice that or more. Even the Camaro is expected to reach at least 100K units anymore or it is a disappointment to GM. The Buicks issue was it did not sell as well as it needed to. It also was too close in size and price to the Regal that was well worth the price difference. I believe Buick is being targeted to do bigger and better things. We will see more special models that sell globally that can hold the lower volumes. We may see more of the Opel performance models and special models that are hard to price higher at Chevy. GM really had too much overlap here and the Regal, New Malibu and Cruze just took too much of this segment. Also Buick is still earning it's way and still has work to do to compete with any of the greater names in this segment. They will need to continue to let the larger more expensive models earn the rep and then retry the smaller cars later when they have improved the image even more. The only two sedans that get somewhat a free pass are the The Toyota and Honda. They get the benefit of happy owners returning. Even with them many are defecting to the CUV from these two brands. Utility and space is what it is all about anymore. My wife defected just for those two reasons. The segment also is a challenge for sedans now with the BU and Fusion with two very competitive models I expect some surprises here with Buick with some odd Euro centric things like Wagons, 3 and 5 door hatch models. AWD and more performance. Buick talks of white space and that I do not see in their SUV and CUV models but the cars need to be what Chevy and Cadillac are not. Buick can be what Pontiac always aspired to be a true affordable Euro Sporting Machine. The burden of high volume will be off anything they share with Opel and Holden. They can take risk and target things not on anyone radar. Besides after seeing the version in China let face it how many here feel better it is not coming here. I for one feel better it is not here. It just did not go far enough to change the perceived image here of Buick.

Well by then it will be like Seat Belts as you may not have many options otherwise. This is an industry wide deal and it is going to be found nearly everywhere. And seat belts can be worn or not worn. (legal ramifications are another story) The bottom line is legally they will have to have it with no defeat switch to count as a EPA boost to MPG. No different than the skip shift on the Vette. Now I can see a plug in for the OBDII that could disable it. The after market will provide what the MFG can not do. In other words don't get worked up over it as there will be a work around. Besides by the time you buy one they may be very common and well sorted. I hate it too but I have seen these dilemmas come and go many times. Good god the people got their panties in a wad over cars with Fuel Injection when it came out. It was Oh my god we will never be able to modify them again. Well Look around now.

Well by then it will be like Seat Belts as you may not have many options otherwise. This is an industry wide deal and it is going to be found nearly everywhere.