hyperv6

For me it was a typo as I had just gotten up. Unlike some anal retented B pillar........ Oh never mind

We can only hope the greed of investors buying up cheap stock will help rebound markets. There are some great bargins out there right now. If the markets become stable spending will start to increase. But even if things start to turn now it would it would still be a year before we will have any real recovery. This is like an accordian and will take time for it to regain forward momentum. Also if they can get spending the goverment to spend on space programs or even a Apollo like program for electric and alturnitive fuels and vehicles and building Nuke plants. The spending will spur development into new product just as the moon program did and better many lives as it increases spending by many who will be employed in these fields. This kind of programs touch all 50 states and millions of people. Even people right here in Akron Ohio benifited by the moon landings and made a lot of money and developed many nw things because of it. But the wild card is as always the Russians [Putin], Iran China, and the many wild cards in the Middle East. There is a lot going on and could make a bad time even worse. The key for the MFGs is to work on product and cut cost. The goverment has to now worry about every UAW worker not losing his job. This about companys not workers. IF the goverment wants to help they need to find new places for the displaced workers from the auto industry as there will be plenty. It is clear many will not be needed were they are.

Congress just wants to look like they don't want to give the money but still give it to them. They don't want to lose the votes by caving in for the whole total. Plus they don't want to get the blaime for all that could and may happen id they lose one or more of the Big three. Besides they will wait till all the newly elected people are in so the can claim any and all credit. This whole DC deal was just a game and show.

I have always pontered where GM would have been today if John made it to the top. We may have had good product but we still may have had a too large of company to deal with todays maker. As for The Grand Prix... it was termed as personal luxury car. The near Luxury performance cars did not really start showing up till the mid 70 in any kind of numbers and BMW pretty much st the market with their lower end cars. Today all the Lexus, Audis and Acuras are not copies of a GP.

Generally most people will not let you cut their leg off unless they are going to die otherwise. The UAW, Dealers and other factors that would fight many of the things that need to happen are now on their knees willing to give to live. It is oh so easy for all of us to be a CEO behind the keyboard. Either way driving down in the Malubu was good and driving up in the Volt was good. The poorest part here is the CEO's [accept Nardelli] are very poor at standing up to the DC creeps. Rick did right by driving the Volt but he should have called out Dodd and the others on the panel to go out and let me not only tell you what we are doing but show you! This whole deal reminds me of when they grilled Howard Hughes in DC in the 40's. He was crazy but sucked it up and stood up to them and called them out. Rick does not have to get in their face but he needs to stop the lies where they are given and should call out Senate districts and tell each Senater and Congress man how many jobs and tax dollars he will lose in each district. A little whats in it for them. I think the autop makers should have give what the people in goverment would lose vs so much what the automakers would gain. They also should remind them of the cost to meet all the goverment standard in Air quality and fuel economy standard coming up. Not to say they are wrong but just present the cost to revamp to meet them. LEt them know how much money Washington is adding to the cost and losses. The Automakers are going to get their money as Rep Sharrod Brown has already said they have to bail them out because the banks would lose on the bonds invested. THis was a hint they will bail them out with the bank money to help the banks. My hunch the money will come form the Bank bail out money and they will say it is to help the banks. The DC folks are just trying to make themselves look good.

Too bad so few watch that network.

The BMW on a budget thing is not a new concept. Most of you Asian up scale cars are all using the BMW/Benz formula. How many of the older Lexus had many of the Benz lines. BMW pioneered the near luxury perfomance cars and many have tried to mine the market as that is where the profits are at lower voulme. When some us call for Pontiac to be a Econo BMW be don't mean to copy them in full but to offer true modern performance cars that are not the crude muscle cars of the past. The idea of Pontiac heritage will carry you only so far. Nostalgia is a good thing to a point but it also limits you to expand into new areas and with many people it can also be as much of a turn off as turn on. Note the polarizing effect of the HHR. The herritage Pontiac need to carry fromt he 60's in the leading edge perfromace in 4-6-8 cylinders but also blaze trails with the latest technology. We are not selling Pontiacs to the same people fromt he 60's as most of them are driving CTS or are dead. Pontiac as a niche market can showcase new options and ideas for GM and then help spread it to the rest of the line up. The Muscle car died in 1970 it is time for GM and Pontiac to move on and compete with todays cars. The niche market while is a step back in some ways will also give Pontiac freedom to do things they could have never done and prevent them from making models they should have never rebadged. Time to stop living in the past when there is so much more out there to be explored. If they had rerlived the past in the 60's Pontiac would not even be a topic today. We need a Delorian mind set but with todays best parts.

Well the Cobalt is at the end of it's life so You won't have it to kick around anymore. Besides in a SS Turbo with rear disc VS 3 the SS kicks its but in all department but looks and those are subjective. They the way the twist beam axle is good enough for a 8:22 lap at the ring with no drama or undue action from the car. Just check the Video out on Youtube. But the indipendent is on the way in the Cruze any way. As for looks! Just take a look at the 09 Mazda 3 and I think it with it's grinning front bumper, it is not something even many Mazda fans will even like. It is a shame Mazda just killed a good looking car.

Gee I only posted this last week that they should use a Cruze/Volt Mule. Wonder what took them so long to think of it? THe gears are slow but they are starting to think!

Buick can change their image if GM does it right. Give the people a great car at a good price. Hyundia has taken this path to a great selling line up. It was not all that long ago Hyundia was not any better thought of than a Yugo. Buick right now are selling ok old out dated cars [what few they offer] at not anything to write home about prices. I am not saying you have to make Buick cheap but give the people a great quality car for the money like Hyundia is doing with the new Genesis. We have to stop thinking of heritage or Grand Nationals. The majority of the buying public was the most car for the money and one they do not have to have repaired often with problems in or out of warranty. GM is starting to get the cars right now but they really need to make sure every detail is right No more cars that are 80% right till the last year they are made. They need to be right the first year.

This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again. No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA. Best yet no Avis cars!

I can go for this plan as it was many here assumed already accept for the Pontiac Niche move. I discounted the niche ideas as I never though GM would go for it. Saab is already for sales along with Hummer. Once things play out in DC look for both to sell quickly. I still thing we will see Holdens and the Buick/Opel Insignia here as a new Buick. Lets face it they have some great Buicks in China that will sell her just fine. The GMC is still something I think we could do without. I know they want to keep a truck in the Buick/Pontiac dealers but with less trucks being sold GMC will have to cover the crossovers. The next question is will DC bite on this 18 Bill is asking alot. Also will GM stick to it's game and work together as one for once. They as we all know have been their own worst compitition/ememy.

I have to agree with this. Who would buy Pontiac unless it is sold with Holden. Also who would spend the money in times like this? Even Saturn would be a hard sell. Only Hummer and Saab could be sold but again who in these times will spend the money. Even Toyota was down graded for loans from AAA to AA.

Not on a global basis. Buick lives because it is a global car. Saturn goes back to just being an Opel and the rest of the line dies. Selling Hummer and Saab is a problem as no one has money. Pontiac could only live on if it was fully merged with another brand and sold world wide. Holden is the prime one to consider but Hoden is not on the most stable of ground itself. Opel has already tried to be a Saturn ad I don't know if they could save Pontiac now. At best Pontiac is going to be a rebadge of somthing but there are little options as it is just not that cool in the publics eye to own a Pontiac anymore. Has anyone noticed the Opel Insignia is now a Buick Regal in China and was canceled here as a Saturn. Could it show up here as a Buick under a different name? It is the euro car of the year! If Pontiac dies does the Holden Buicks sold in China come here as new product till the Zeta dies? Lets face it Chevy and Dawoo have their future tied on a global market. Caddy will go it alone on the global market with a few shared platforms but no rebadges. Buick has Opel, Holden and Caddy to sahre platforms with that are already sold around the world. Pontiac has ehh Canada. If they have not pumped money into Pontiac when they had it I don't see any of the 25 B going to them even if GM gets it. I own two Pontiacs now and would love to see GM give them the love that they need. But the truth is these are harsh times and Pontiac is like my Dog back in August. I could have spent a ton of money on her but the fact was she was 15 years old and no matter how much I spent she was not going to make it more than a month or two in great pain. I did not want to see her put down but understood it had to be done. It did not make it easier but the options I had just were not enough. I also could not bankrupt the family for a dog that had lived a full life with little hope of any recovery. The money that could be spent on Pontiac may very well be the money that saves GM. Just saving Pontiac will never save GM.

Selling will not be an option for a good while. Hummer has sold not because no one whats them but the fact no one has the money to buy them right now. Everyone is hurting and few companies are willing to spend money on damaged brands in times like this. With companies like Nissan, BMW, Toyota and others making cuts what CEO would have the nerve to buy Hummer Pontiac and Saturn. The Share holders would string them up. It is not like they were buying Honda. The bottom line is no money=no sale of unprofitable divisions. Everyone is trying to keep afloat in these times so few will grab the concrete block if you throw it to them. Now if times were good and companies were cash rich Hummer and Saab would have been gone already.

Is Pontiac/Satun making money? How much money will it take to make Pontiac Profitable again. How long till they are profitable? How much money will GM lose till they make a profit vs how much it would cost to shut them down. With the current economic market how much more money will they lose and how fast. In times like the the strong are hurting the weak are hardly holding on. For most companies that are hurting finacially they have to lose divsions and sell of what they can. They need to get to the core part of the company they can make money now with. Then they have to rebuild expand as they go. In other words they have to take a step back before they move forward. Goodyear tire has just gone through this in the last 5-7 years. They are a much smaller and leaner company. In the past Goodyear made belts, hoses, convair belts, tractor tires, Aero space products, chemicals, viynal wraps, fiberglass, oil pipe lines and much more. Today Goodyear makes automotive, truck, aviation and motorcycle tires. Today Goodyear is a much smaller but stronger company and they are making through this down turn much better than some of their competitors. They were at one time as bad off or even worse than GM. Robert Kegan has had to make some hard choices and we lost some heritage along the way. But the fact it he saved the company to build and live on. Google what he has done and it will show you a path to recovery. GM has studied some of what he has done. To detemind if all or any of these division make it you have to consider the cold hard facts and not heritage and nostalgia. Just because you love Pontiac is not a reason to save or kill it. You need to see how much it is losing how much it will cost to fix it and how long it will take vs how much it will cost to kill it. the one that cost the least will win. Also what money you spend on Pontiac/Saturn with no assurance you will make a profit, what could you do with that money on a future Chevy or other product that will sell in greater numbers. GM right now needs niche like a hemaroid. They need great small cars that will appeal to all sell in volume and make a profit. Honda and Hyundia have proven you don't have to be cool to make money just affordable and reliable go a long way. You can have time to be cool once we start making money again. We here complain that too many at GM are bean counters and don't know or think cars. We are the oppisite here we think too much car and not not enough of paying the bills. Saving Pontiac or Satun is not going to work if you think with your heart. GM needs to think with their heart but their head and the right thing to do in times like this are seldom the thing you want to do. Too many want to talk about product but few here ever mentions cost and losses. FYI I hate accountants but you have got to have them.

I would like to have 10 cars in my garage too but with what money I have coming in I can only afford 3 solid cars. I could sell them off and buy 10 junk cars for the driveway with no money to fix them. GM is going to have the funds to fix 2-3 divisions and unless Pontiac sales are up in China I would not hold my breath. Killing brands has not worked because they never fixed the surviving brands. Chevy is the work horse here and they need to make Chevy the best they can be. The money and good products going into other divisions is not going to save GM. Pontiac is not going to save GM. Chevy needs to evolve like Hyundia has and retake the market. The less divisions also would get everyone on one page working in one direction. In the past the division fighting has done more damage than Toyota has. GM is going to get one chace to get this right. The money rebading Chevys as Pontiacs could go to makeing better Chevys. GM is wokring to make Caddy world class. Well why are they not wokring to make Chevy world class in it price group? Not as good as Honda or Toyota but better. Right now who ever give people the most good car for the money is going to win, and right now Hyundia has a lot of people worried. If you wanted to save Pontiac it should have been started 10 years ago. Or convice the people in China it is better than a Buick. To show how bad off Pontiac is here in one of it's strongest markets I saw in the paper a $30,000 G8 advertised at $24,000 and I am sure you talk them lower them lower on the last day of the month. Sad but even one of the best cars Pontiac has ever offered is not selling at fire sales prices.

BMW has been able to stay independent throught the good times. Now the hard times are here it may force them to take a dance partner to make it. With the cost of development of cars and with less money coming in new products will be slower in coming to market. Other than the Mini BMW has little to support them in a maket where many will cust their spending.

They can and will do what they can to save GM. IF they have to kill off my fav division so be it. As of now I am a GM fan first and a division fan second. My fear is if GM should fail all together or get taken over my next car may have to be of a brand I never wanted to buy. I can live with a Chevy much better than a Honda.

They will. The key is to make the base car as good as the performance car. The Cobalt SS may out perform the compitition on the track or street but it still under playes in thge interior. Once GM upgrades the rest of the car they can use what was learned on the SS and make it even better on the Cruze.

Stop all this we could put this model in this line up. We have too many models non not just divisions. The idea is to do away with all the many models and divisions to save money. If the model is not sold world wide it is gone.

I too own a HHR SS. I love the turbo engine and the GMPD tuning. I have had a blast driving this thing and I am shock how often people remark that this is stock and it has a turbo? The Cobalt and HHR SS are the best kept secrets at GM the Cobalt is just being discovered but few know the HHR SS even is out. This is my first FWD daily driver as is my first 4 cylinder and I have not regretts. It is the most fun car I have owned since my 1968 Chevelle SS. Only this one stops and turns. The biggest problem is to get the people over the preception of these being Chevys. They are screwed together very well and are priced to sell. I got the HHR SS loaded for $21,700 and I have seen the Cobalt SS's in at a Cleveland dealers for $19,000. At that price they should be flying off the lots.

You kill the division it cost ypu money and if ypu keep the division it cost ypu even more money. It is like a gang greene leg you hate to lose it buyt sometimes you need to step back to move forward again. The bottom line is if Pontiac, Saturn or Saab is not making money and it will cost you a lot of money you don't have to fix them you stop the infection. The money put to Pontiac and the others could be used to make the profit centers of Pontiac and Cadillac better. It is no longer about Market Share it is profit. Who cares if you hold 30% of a market is you can't pay the bills.

I have entertained the Idea of rolling the Saturn Aura and Astra to Pontiac and kill the rest of Saturn. Kill ther G6 and G5. Sell Saab. You eiither fix Pontiac or kill it as who would buy that mess.

And the Cobalt SS turbo does it in 8 Min 22 Sec for under $20K. Hell my HHR SS is not that far behind either. Just enjoy the G8 while it last as it is a great cor for the money and one of thew best all around Pontiacs ever made.