hyperv6

Like this was a suprise? I and several other have posted this was the most likley move for Buick. They already are going to sell the Inisignia in China and we already knew this car was gone from Saturn. We also kne there was a snow balls change it was going to become the G6. THis is the logic that told why Buicl was spared vs Pontiac or Saturn. Folks it is one world today. What we have they will have and they have will also be ours. If it can't be sold in other countries it will not be sold. GM can cut their world wide products in half along with the cost of developing so many different models for no reason. Before it is all said and done most everyting will be FWD except for the Vette and Cadillac. WIth the new CAFE laws the entire industry will go this way to save weight. As for the new Opel it is not Euro looking it is world looking. This is a car that will look in place no matter if it is London, Denver or Shanghi. Good up to date looks know no borders.

My point is Honda's fair no better.

The manual shift cars are a pain as they age. The shift linkage goes and the Clutch, slave cylinder and clutch peldal all go away and make for a poor $h!ing car without some work. I bought an auto new not because I wanted it but brcause I knew the GM linkage back int he 80's was crap and did not want any expensive problems later. The Fiero is a fun car and if you have a good one easy to maintain. But today I see so many rusted out space frames and interiors that atr trashed. TOday the Fiero's are wither really good to new or just wasted. It amazes me how much some people invest in fixing one up when they could have spent less for a low mileage one that has sat in a a garage for 20 years. I see some low milage 88 GT going for some good prices today.

There were two ZL-1 Vettes sold to the public nd both are still around. The yellow one is in Florida and the white one was in Washington state the last I heard. There also was some who thought there was a red one but no one can document if it is around or if it ever was sold. GM used it for magazine stories and it has not been seen since. They even made a diecast a few years back of the white car as it was Zora's test car.

Most Civics here are trashed. The winters just don't do much for them and the 20-30 year old women driving them seldom wash them. My buddy also makes money on fixing them as they do break down and few want to pay the dealers rates.

I got to judge one in a Camaro show that was very original. We did not take off for the original valve covers with the rocker arm dings in them. Some one had missed a shift over the years. It was one sweet car.

Keep in mind I have shown my car locally and nationally since the early 90's. I spend a lot of time sitting in the hot sun at shows with other Fiero owners. During these times sitting in this hot suimmer sun is when we noticed the noises. We would laugh and joke how the cars were coming alive. Also note the black cars made the noise more often. Not all will do it but the fact is the plastic bodies move and grow in heat and cold. THis also creates for poor fit and finish. To bring out a car today with more than a 3MM gap or uneven gasp the press would be all over it and the car would be labled as what is wrong with Detroit. There is only one real free pass and that is the Vette. THe XLR does not count since few really care about it and it will die soon enough.

Logic in these times say they all die together. Low volume little if any profit and we are in a time money is better spent on a high volume higher profit Cruze. If the Kappa live on in the Alpha I will be suprised. So buy one while you got them.

As a 24 year owner of a Fiero and a past club president of a Fiero club. They creak. It is a well known thing with most of our owners and club members. Also how badly the Fiero rusts out under the plastic skin. Many a member has been burned to find that everything behind the rear axle line is just held up with the fiberglass quarters. As for hits in the parking lot. They hold up to door dings but many times the panels will crease or spit to where you have to replace the entire panel. It happens more than you think. Having a lot of time with plastic panels I will say they are not horrible but they are not what will fix Saturn. Having said that to fix Saturn you do all sorts of things but the bottom line is get them to just make a profit on the volume they are selling at now. Thas is all that is needed. We too often think in terms of volume but many other companys sell less cars of different lines but are making more money. What can make Saturn profitable is the key and nothing more. As for panel gap every press outlet will rip you if you have poor fit and finish on a new car. While a GM or Saturn fan may forgive the many Civic driving Consumer Reports reading potential Conquest sale will read their report on gaps and just write it off as American poor quality. Remember the general buyingl public [in the words of Dr House] are idiots when it comes to cars. They only know and believe what they read. They need to be respect as they are because your not going to change them so give them what they want.

Unfortunatly Hondas in our area are no bargin after 5 years. Many have worn iteriors and rust around rear hatches etc. The big problem in this class of car is people buy the, for economy. The at is not just fuel mileage but also not changing oil, washing/waxing or just good plain upkeep on the car. I have found many low priced cars suffer damage just from neglect. When they got a stone chip no one touches ut up etc.

Sorry but GM is being realistic and trying to get their cars up to the standard of the entire industry. To a MFG what the car looks like in 5 years is not an issue as long as it did not rust and the paint still shines. Dents are not their issue. Also all the cars dent the same so no disadvantage. It many not matter to you and a few others how a car it fit together but with car being better made today a wide gap shows up and stands out to most import buyers. And yes the Fiero's ade noise and the Saturn body panels may or may not have made noise since they were half breeds in plastic parts. But their panels did expand and contract in hot sun light. Also I suspect the cars are eaisier to make lighter weight with just a supporting fender. This also helps meet the crash strandards with more metal to crumple. You plastick had to be supported and the plastic just shattered in a crash. Not mush crush zone in a injected fender.

Make it an Opel and it will be. As for GM being behind Saturn. Reminds me of a line in the movie Stripes. "I just want you to remember when we are then thick of battle I will be behind you guy all the way!"

Do you relaize how much you would save in just the marketing aspect alone. Opel would a fesh start in this country with many and has a good rep in Europe. Lets face it this is no different than the Sham Wow comercial where the guy says "they are made in Germany and you know the Germans make good stuff". People are really that simple minded and believe crap like this. People ued to think years ago Orange peel on a Benz ment it had more paint? Americans over look things form else where when if it is frm here they cut no slack. Saturn needs to ditch the Outlook and update the Aura. GM has other Opels that would sell well here with the import minded folks. They are priced well and are of good quality. Right now the Saturn name is still is in that love hate relationship with the American publc. To some it it that special car, to others it is that cheap plastic crap with the engine that burned oil due to ring problems. Yes Saturn burned many on enigne problems in the early years and they remember.

Then how do you explaine the 5-6 MM panel gaps when everyone else has 3 MM. It may seem small on paper but people notice this anymore and they equal it with quality. Also explain to them whrn the body make noise as it pops and cracks in the summer sun as it expands. I tell people my Fiero is talking to me when it make al sorts of noise in the hot sun at a car show.

Just dump the Outlook and stop changing the Opel emblems out. Change the name to Opel and just import what they are building. Then also Market each car. Cars like the Astra and the like are mysteries to many. I have heard more than one person see one and ask what it was. That is a sign that GM is not doing its job. Now where do we get the money to market it better? That is always the problem around here we all get good ideas but never factor in the cost of things like marketing or saving Pontiac etc.

Saturn is like a bad wife you have neglected to pay much attention too till it was too late. She is difficult to figure out. She is expensive to keep up and brings little money in. She is so far gone that that the new boob job and face peel is not fixing the rest of the problems. But in the end you don't divorce her because it is cheaper to keep her. If you Divorce her your going to have to keep paying as no one will marry her and take her off your hand. So you work on things and try to work things out. You still have a lot in common and with a little more attention [better Marketing of the Opel based cars] you make things work. Unlike Pontiac Saturn has a positive rep with many non GM owners and a dealer system that seems to work. Also just the right niumber of dealers. IF they drop the big SUV and other odd cars not in the Saturn frame they could turn things around with some proper marketing. Product development is contained with Opel so the risk is little. If they can restructure the product to be a tight unit of good product and market it much better than thery have. Lets face it most Saturn ads on tv are all the models in a show room but not specific models. No one is going to buy Saturn unless someone gets crazy in China. So it is either make it work or kill it. Both have a price which one will GM pay?

It could vary well be the G8 but as a Zeta it life is limited unless it goes to a Alpha. At this point no one here knows for sure what is going to happen so putting odds on any of them is a bit extream. I expect what ever model they save it will not meet with the approval of many here. Their best cars the G8 and Solstice have limited lives at this point.

They have less room because flat screens fit in these easier. The Saturn front is ok as it is a little less plastic looking and the Saturn will go away any how. The outside should sell well as some of the imports are just flat ugly and they do well. I think the interior will sell this vehicle as it looks very pleasing and the duel colors make it look much more expensive. WIth the lack of marketing for the Traverse and the Nox being cheaper I see this hurting the sales of the Traverse. Before the old Nox would have helped the Traverse. THis one is a major step up and should help in the turning of GM. Now if the economy will just start to slow its decline and turn around.

Grass Hopper, A wise man believes if Buick N/A vanishies it would not effect Buick China. But a wise man know Buick China can and will effect Buick N/A. With the Lucerne Going away and the new Lacrosse coming it looks as if Buick N/A may get some of the same cars offered in China. The Insignia sold in China would really look good in a Buick show room. It was taken from Saturn so where does it land. Buick or even as the last Pontiac? The Euro car of the year is coming to N/A but where? The G8 comment goes back to When they first came out. As few as the dealers got in they are not moving them much at all in midwest. The sad part is the midwest is one of Pontiacs strongest markets. That is even with them priced so low they are hard to pass up. I even found one on a used lot for less than $19K. It is a shame the harsh market and lack of marketing has hurt the best Pontiac sedan in their history. Few people outside the enthusiast know what a G8 is.

Note I have not seen it yet but you may still be limited in 1st and 2nd gear as they are not upgrading the tranny. It is not likley they will put anymore power in the first two gears. But you already have 250 HP in 3rd and 4th gear so you will see 290 HP in those gears for sure. From those with this already they are seeing 20 PSI. But the best news is the learn feature is opened up by GM so if you put a cat back on or a intake it will learn it and increase the performance vs the present system that will not do a thing to take advantage of the new parts.

Here is where Holen is going. Holden, known for it's massive sedans and massively appealing V8s, is on the small car bandwagon with its announcement to build a four-cylinder car in Australia to be sold alongside the Commodore. Holden currently has three four-cylinder cars, but they're comprised of rebadged Daewoo's and an Opel, and haven't set the Outback on fire. The new compact car will be based on the Chevrolet Cruze, but with a body designed by Holden, and will offer both four-pot gas and diesel options. Down the line, Holden said it will investigate ethanol-capable engines and start-stop technology for its new Corolla fighter. Holden has a few reasons to make such a move right now, changing consumer tastes being one of the most important. The Australian government has also pledged $6 billion (AUD) to its local auto industry, which has allowed Holden to carry out its plans with less concern about the bottom line. Holden will spend $200 million (AUD) and the government will provide another $179 million (AUD). The new compact sedan will have to stave off competition from Toyota, as well as the parade of cheap Thai cars that have been flowing into Australia after the two countries concluded a free trade agreement. The new Holden will face-off against the Ford Focus and Toyota Corolla when production begins in 2011.

I don't know what they want to do but the deal ia already made with Toyota so they will neither gain or lose. Too many assume this saved car is the G8 while they sit on dealer lots unsold at very cheap prices. My thought is for ther most GM has little care if Pontiac lives or dies. THe Vibe is cheap for them to produce with the NUMMI deal. and it keep them from paying out money to dealers to close at a time they have little money. With cutting Pontiac to one model do you really think GM cares if Pontiac lives or dies? It is all about the money or the lack of and some need understand that. Besides how longer is the NUMMI contract still in effect? It may be longer than what GM intends to keep Pontiac around? This may be the last Indian standing simply due to the contract length with NUMMI?

Lets face it too many are thinking G8. [i hope they are right but] The cheapest car to keep is the VIbe. GM has to spend so little on this one. They don't engineer it they don't built it. They just style it and market it. PAy a fee to Toyota as part of the deal they have. The Vibes life will be longer with the new CAFE vs the G8.

That is the open new thinking we need.

Ok with all this remake of Pontiac stuff. The bottom line how much would it cost? Let see some real figures. Talk is cheap. Also where would the money come from over and above what GM is already working on like the new Buicks, Cadillac, Volt and Chevys? If anyone has a realistic idea of how to save Pontiac they need to include numbers. IF someone could show GM a economic way to save Pontiac you just may do it. Coming up with models is the easy part just paying to design, test, tool, Marketing it properly is where the problem is. If we want to save Pontiac we need to stop complaining and find the money to do it. We can't take money saved from Hummer or Saturn as it is already going to save GM. Saab is off the table as it looks to be staying as part owned by GM at the least. Also if you plan to market this car you have to make all new models available some where outside North America. That is the new GM way so they can not excape that if your doing more than one model. Our best bet it to work at the future with a Apha based model and make 2 or 3 versions of it. I am sure by the time a Alpha is available money will either be more available or GM will be working out of Chapter 11. Also they will have to share the platform to save on development cost. Taking the budget for the entire Pontiac line now and placing it on one model three versions. Make it special. Use the present maketing money for just one car. You might pull it off. IF it sells and woirks out well you can grow the line again as demand warrents and let the models pay the way for Pontiac. Pontiac is at the point it needs to learn how to walk before it can run again. To toss a lot of money at Pontiac now much of it will be wasted. GM as a whle needs and is working to do this. For a company to recover it has to step back to move forward. Pontiac has the luxury of not having to remake the entire line at one time. Use that to your advantage. Buickl and the new adde models I expect from Opel and China will support Buick with car people here never imagined Buick doing. Pontiac can take advantage of this and earn their way back. Sharing with Holden is your international link. As for the amount of money I can not cover that. There are some here informed and smart enough they could help with what it would take. Like it or not it is just my out of the box though It may be a workable idea it may not be. But to stay as it is now it will not work. Maybe someone can come up with a better idea based on this? The bottom line is we need new ideas as they are not going to use the same old ones we rehash.