hyperv6

Close only counts in horse shoes. The Camaro has a lot more invested and has a heck of a lot better chance to make money from a wider group of people. GM at least hope to recoupe their large investment. Besides the public relation fall out on that car would be much worse due to the number of fans. Most people did not know or care about the ST. You were one of the few in the big picture. If your so worried about Pontiac a better G6 should be first on your list if you want to save them. But in the end I don't see Pontiac being with us much longer just do to the great need of money elsewhere in GM. Think of it this way. You a doctor and you only have so much blood in the blood bank. Do you give it to the guy who has a good chance of making it or do you give it to the guy who lost half his body on a mine. You can't save both and you have to decide. The smart doctor does not like to lose any but he is always going to take the stronger of the two. And no saving both is not an option! Many models are going to fall in many companies. Times today are not unlike the earliy 30's were we lost many of the great car companies and models like Cord, Dusenbuerg and Alburn. They went away and new classics and models filled in once times got better. Times change and in this kind of era it is adapt or die and that is what GM is facing. You may have lost a model but do you really understand how close you are to losing a company? Be mad but be wise!

Comino Get A Grip You're smarter than this. You as much as anyone should understand how bad things are right now Even companies like Toyota and Honda are maing changes to make sure they survive even thought htye were stable going into this tough time. GM is a very bad way and was so even before the market turn down. It is time for them to get back and to the basices and concentrait on the core markets and making a profit with those vehicles. Niches are for good times not bad history will point that out. Be glad the Camaro is as far along as it was so you at least have someting while it last. Too many want to sit here and debate market share and models when we need to think about maximising profits. GM nees to start making money or soon die. There is nothing at Pontiac right now able to do wha they need in any great volume. They shot old Yellar not because they wanted to. It is ok to not be happy but to carry on when you know better is as bad as being a B pillar wack job. Time to thing with your brain not your heart. I don't mean to be rude to you but I hate to think I have under estimated you all this time. I know your smarter than this.

Since when have you seen a proposed drawing of a future car that looked worse than the production model? The pen is mightier than the metal press. I do like the rear tail lights better. It has the Chevy family Vette look of 1960's-73. the C6 look is not a bad thing to relate a small sedan too. When I wash my moms bu you really get a feel for the design. The front clip is more complex than you realize. Spending time cleaning it you see lines that tend to get over looked in a passing glance. If GM could bring this out a little more with out geting cartoonish.

Can't agree more. The future of Pontiac may not even be sold yet as it may be a new model or two we have yet to see. They have not given a time line yet. This stuff is changing daily so GM may not even have it hammered down yet. Just think about the poor guys working on this stuff to only get it killed in the last min. The Impala team must not be happy.

This cut was seen coming from a mile away so no one should be suprised. It is time for some to deal with the reality that niche cars are great in good economic times as when this car was concieved. But today it is time to get back to the baisics. GM as do all auto companies about getting back to the core buisness. They need to worry about the cars the majority want and not just the cool neat cars a few will ever buy or be able to afford. Right now the high mileage affordable cars are going to rule. People are losing their jobs and taking pay cuts so who ever win the market for affordable is going to survive. I too hate to see the ST go but some times you have to grow a pair and just deal with it. I sometimes thing many here just really do not grasp how bad things really are. When you see Nissan, Toyota and Honda making cuts and putting new product on hold that should be a big red flag. GM needs to take care of the core product first and what ever money they would spend even just printing up the marketing material and lunch for the press release for the ST would be better spent on product that may just save the company. GM is not out of this yet and still can turn it around but they can not afford many more mistakes or wasted money. Once the good time return we will get the good stuff back. Things were bleak in the 70's and 80's but it came back. Adapt and react to the market or die! GM putting out the ST now is just an example of what got them into trouble in the 70's. Wrong product at the wrong time. You would sell some when it first comes out but in the next 2-4 years it will fail.

Pontiac needs a world class G6 that is worth a dam more than anything else. The G6 sell well now just think if it was a even better car. This would do more to support or change GM or Pontiac than anything else. Imagine a car Better all around than the Malibu that the magazines all brag about. Something more performance oriented and just cool to look at and still be affordable.

The G8 may be of a profit but with limited units sold the profits are limited by volume alone. Do you spend money on a limited profit vehicle or one that could prove to be more profitable in greater volumes? The Cruze will also be profitable with it being sold world wide but with more volume to bring more reward. Also how long will GM keep the G8 coming with pending CAFE and or if the price of oil goes back up. If we get high oil again the car companies have to decide do we try to wait it out or do we risk it and keep what we have. I see small cars and smaller engines on the fast track and the Zeta just playing it out till it get phased out. I see GM and most others going conservitive on product development unless it is alturnitive. This is one hell of a time to be a product planner with oil and economy changes hourly and product development still in years.

Hmmm? Lets see, We are hurting for money and we have to becareful where we spend out money. Do we keep the car we did not invest much in that will sell in limited numbers and make little if any profit depending on the value of the dollar? Or do we invest in sedans and other cars that sell closer to 200,000 units per years and are expected to make money since they are not imported. GM has to take a step back to basics to pay the bills and if they do that the good fun cars will return later. If they do not fix the problems of being able to make a profit selling cars and beating the compitition in the primary markets all the new Vettes and G8 ST's will never return. The basics of trying to sell up to 200,000 Cruze's may not be fun but they many save GM not a car that only has 5,000 units sold. Also the fact Pontiac is getting cut to one vehicle may have something to do with this. Just might be it is not a G8 as so many assume. Keep in mind the G8 ST could also get a Chevy nose graft and become an El Camino in due time. If Pontiac is gone this car could get a second chance with the Chevy nose Holden uses. There are options here yet. If GM can do a good job selling boring cars the good cars will come. Things are so bad Honda [king of boring] and others are killing some of the fun things. It is still going to get much worse before it improves. We have more to worry about than a low volume pick up.

Have you seen the front end of those things? Not a face to have in a slow market. Looks like a metal pumpkin. Guys this is called getting back to the basics to survive. There will be time for those who survive to play later.

I hate to see this but know it is the right thing to do at this time. Limited volume cars are not going to save GM right now. Let GM build what they need to now and we will get things like this later.

Wen I was seeking a car for my mom I thought the Bu would make her a good car. Now that she has it I have been able to spend a lot of time behind the wheel. As they said in the Automobile "Drive It". I am impressed with this car and after driving it I would have no reservations of replacing the wifes GTP with this car. It shows me how bad my GTP really is. This is the best all around sedan GM has ever built other than the CTS.

Buick is at the point now they can market to the younger affluent middle class. Before they were too worried about offending the snow tops that had Le Sabre's that they left the car to rott. Most of the snow tops went to Camry's anyways and Buick failed. Now they can make cars for the younger people with money and not have to worry about the old and dead. Opel cars can do this for them. You can sell an old man a young mans car but you can never sell a young man an old car. Check how many older drivers are in CTS's when few young sain driver's apire to a DTS. The cars in China are the cars Buick should have been offering here. They started off with the old crap we had but they replaced it with product that is attractive to a younger group.

The people I know who bought Saturns [i know quite a few] bought them because they were inexpensive. Most times a better deal then a Cavalier. The bottom line was they got them because they were the lowest car payment. And that was a GOOD THING! Saturn did a lot of things right but GM gave all the advantages away with too few new products and tried to sell the old cars way too long. Then when they go to replace them they bring us the Ion? To win a race you need a good start but you also need to finish the race. GM had a great start with Saturn and just never finished. The compitision is too tough in this class not to off the best you can. GM did not offer that. You can offer great service and plastic bodies or what ever but if your product is too old and too few ypu just can compete in this class. Even the Cobalt is gettin long in the tooth for Chevy. With Honda updating every few years you have to match them.

What ills Saturn is not going to be fixed with plastic fenders. The cars they have right now are as good as Saturn has ever had. The dealers still sell just as they did in the past. I even had one offer lunch while shopping. The fact is the original cars were ok but they were pretty much entry level and too limited in models. Now they have moved up scale to wher emany would buy but many remember the some what plain cars they offered before. Note the GM add where the guy looks twice that they are Saturns. We kno what that ad is about but they still do not put a name on the models in advertising. They need to sell the cars a Saturn models and not just Saturn. Selling Saturn as Saturn worked when you only had two cars. Today they have a lot more to show and offer so market it. Today the bodys could be made out of Spam as long as the the car holds up and is well priced and reliable. The average buyer could care less if they are plastic or steel. I have seen a ton of Bonnievilles, Lesabres and Park Aves that have plastic front fenders flapping in the wind The rest of the car is ok but the fender took a hit and shattered. Looks bad if your trying to sell plastic cars.

Saturn's got the best car they ever had right now, The dealers still have the same good service and who cares what goes on at Spinghill unless you work there? The old cars were too few in moderls, they were good but not great models with engines that the Piston Rings would fail on. Saturn did not get worse but the rest of GM and Ford got better. To compare the Crown Vic to anything on equal terms you would have to go back nearly 20 years. That car was designed and first sold years ago and little was change over the years. the best to compare it to is say like a 87 Buick Regal as they were designed in a same era. Todays Aura and Astra are leaps ahead of the past Saturns in all areas and to be honest they are ow getting behind the many other new models coming out so it is time to replace them if Saturn is to stay around. Years ago I had nothing against Saturn but I would not consider one. Today they have several models I would consider.

Heard a good one today. One ot he wifes co workers a eductated person tried to claim since all the Detroit Automakers are bankrupt that the Detroit Auto show was canceled and that they were going to move it out of Detroit. This is the kind of false BS info that Gm has to fight against. These people think they have it covered and have no idea. This is just about the autoshow can you imagine this person having anything good to say about the automakers themselves? Not sure what kind of car they drive but I betting it is not American.

Nav screens are on the way out as on board hard drives and internet is on the way in. It will take care of all the needs that a driver can have. Nav, Weather radar. Music and Movie down load information on where to stay or eat ETC. See if GM can package a Internet Link that is affordable to put in like On Star across all models. I have no use for NAV as I read road signs. But I would love to have weather radar on my cross country trips. When I am hitting snow in WV and going north I would like to know more of what I am running into when the roads go to hell. I know every Exit on just about every interstate but the weather is always changing. Unless you in So Cal. Also a hard drive with all my music would be great. Better than XM as there would be no Bruce Springsteen messing up my commute. If GM wants to lead they need to leap ahead vs just catching up with NAV screens. Or better yet turn On Star into a internet cell phone service that can be used at home or on the road. If you can do this all on a I Phone why can't you do it in your car with a removeable intergrated I Phone or something similar like a Blackberry? It would beat the hell out of having a self parking car you talk to. The youngrt kids today and coming up tech savy that a NAV screen is not going to be enough in a couple years. Time to more forward and meet the future. Information is power and people know that now. Besides we can spam the hell out of the Toyotas with GM advertising once they get it.

Fbodfather Scott Settlemire has pointed out while GM spends tons of money on some part fo a car they tend to neglect other things. He pointed out on the 4 Gen F body GM put a lot of money into suspension and drivetrain but little into the interior and other things that ended up as well know problem areas. Yess they had a car that could match a Porsche on the track but they had owners with power windows that failed. Also It has been pointed out Chevy never had moeny left over to market the car as they should have. Even Ford left a little for the Mustang. If Gm could kill off half the model they make today and keep with the best they have now and coming. Then they could afford to cover all the details and not have to cheap out in areas that come back to bite them. Saturn is a case study of the problems GM has had. They sell the some fine cars but those outside GM know so little about them. Also they have had a few models like a large SUV that really should have been a Chevy not a Saturn They corrected that but still no marketing? But then again no money for Marketing. GM needs cuts and they need to get trhe word out on their vehicles. People are shocked when I come out of work and my HHR SS is running. They are even more shocked to know remote start was standard. Then I tell them it even starts the rear window de froster if it is cold enough. Why go through the mostions on adding these great features that no one knows of unless they go into a showroom or visit the web site. The sdad fact people for the most have not considered GM enough to even check them out. GM needs to get these cars and features in the face of the public. IF you can sell them then word of mouth will take off if the vehicle is good. Better to sell half the models and market them well vs offering twice as many and not marketing them well if at all.

To quote one of Americas Great Idiots. The Larger the crowd the lower the collective IQ.

I am a life long GM owner and fan. In the past it was never an issue but today people even where I work shake their head and ask why I am still loyalto GM. Most drive Imports and if I ask them to be specific in why I should not buy GM they can only give me the general crap that is in the publc domain. I also ask have you driven a new Malibu or Turbo Ecotech or any of the other new offrings like a CTS and not can even tell me they have even sat in one. There is a uniformed general bias against GM now and it has been growing as time goes on. Who in 1970 would think you would get persicuted for buying GM from a Mazda or VW owner? Even my 72 year old mother has been questioned by a few [not as many] friends for buying a new Malibu she loves. Though anyone who has been in it loves it and tells how they never know the new car was this nice. I think it is funny when a guy at work shakes his head that I bought an HHR but he stops when I tell him it is 250 HP and has a Turbo. He is a road racer do I gave him the lap time at the Green Helll and he would not believe me till I showed him the Video of Heinrency's lap. I then told him and showed him the stories of the Cobalt vs his prised Mazda 3 and again he could only ask when did they put a Tubo in. Then all he could do is say it will never hold up. It is sad the lack of open minds today to GM even if they do get something right. Oh I do work at a firm that deals with the performance after market and we make 90% of our income based on American cars. Go figure we would have some narrow minds.

A couple of details here. #1 they are not the dreaded Evil Corperation GM. Yes they made bad cars but their coperations in this country were never labled as evil in the press like GM has been. #2 They are not American companies. People in this country tend to trust 4n companies more for some reason and are more forgiving of them. #3 Finally they all have done some great marketing.. Audi has built a good image. Nissan was coming back but has stagnated of late. VW is still having problems but they are making good looking cars and have great advertising [i do hate the talking Beetle as much as the Gecko] Hyundia has stepped up quality and priced the cars to were even Honda and Toyota fear. All with the help form a past leader from Buick. Kia its been Price Price Price. They are not that grat of a car but better than they were. The bottom line is they are cheap and now some what relaiable. They all have done what GM needs to do but GM needs to do it on a much larger scale.

Invicta would have been my choice as something or but new again. Lacrosse and Regal conjer up some of Buick good but not great years. I think of a Old W car that was not bad but not great and My moms rusted out Regal. At least with Invicta to the young it is new and if your old enough it will bring back more positive memories of the Buick of old.

It is easy for someone to get a bad reputation but it is so much harder to regain the respect. GM is like a ex convict. He may have served his time and may be a really good guy now with a freshly earned PHD. But the neighbors still wisper he is the guy that held up the bank 20 years ago. Toyota is like Martha Stewart. Yes she may have been convicted of a feloney but to many in the public they feel it was not a real crime because there was no Gun. Toyota makes a mistake or have a problem they get a pass because they are not precived as evil. GM is like the old Bank robber and has to go out and show and prove how they is no longer the thug and is prepared to give back. GM took a lot of money form people with poor quality cars over the years and robbed a lot of bank accounts when the owners need to repair them. That is trust that is going to be hard to earned. GM did the right thing and admitted they made crap but they need to follow through with this and market the hell out of what they are doing right today. Since GM is on Goverment welfare. they should show just what and where the money is going. This will show it is not wasted and should start to earn some trust. Also it will keep GM honest. The big catch phrase today seems to be Transparent. I know it was a bunch of election crap but for GM to become transparent to the public is a way to shead that old stoggy evil corperate image. Apple makes themselves look as if they are your partner. The truth is Steve Jobs is just as hard nose as any CEO. But he makes sure they protect their name and image. GM forgot to protect their image and they have to earn it back. GM needs to offer Quality, Value and Image in their vehicles then market the hell out of each model. If you can't afford to maket all your models properly then you have too many models. As well as the Accord sells Honda still markets it heavily. They take nothing for granted.

That is one way to put it. Seriously, My wife works in a library system and there are many Alturnative live style and higher eductaion people there. I mean more than just gays as we have goths, feminist, witches collage students old hippies, needless to say a very diverse urban group. Most drive imports and most are faily expensive imports since they have a faily good income. Most of the ones I have met buy vehicles based on what they read, few are car people. They tend to believe what they read and they have had good enough service from the vehicles to not regret what they bought. I was able to talk one into buying a Saturn Vue [Cat Person]. She has been very happy with it and is now glad she did not buy a Honda. Another thinks she is saving the world in her Prius [note they are not getting great mileage and have visited the dealer about it] and Highlander Hybrid [old hippie]. Many have affordable cars including Cobalts and Hyundias. Now the city officals here tend to drive Cadillacs [CTS] and Benz. Sure glad they raised my taxes.

Unless GM can find away to to sell cars in California, Florida and New York they will have a harder time gaining ground or retaining ground in all other parts of the country. GM made a mistake of not tayloring cars for California as often most trends start there. Toyota, Nissan and Honda started there. They will not retake the California market in one car or even in one year. They need to earn it back and that starts with a good product and some very good marketing Now they have good product it is on exclellent marketing and the cost of marketing to sell the product.