hyperv6

Yes he bought the first to the public 003. But now the grey 001 is in Leno's hands make it the first one in Public hands. GM stated that it was the first in public hands and not the first one built at the time of the sale. This was made clear at the time of the sale. It makes me wonder how soon we will see a Lemans blue as a regular option. I am guessing Leno is just holding the car for the Vette team. But that is just a guess. It would not be the first time a GM engineering team has stashed a car to protect it.

I wonder how this is realy going to work? The first production ZR-1 of the public went for a million dollars last year. It was a special on off blue. But since then I see Jay Leno has a gray ZR-1 that has vin# 0000001. Now I would assume that Jays car is the very first since we know the first car was gray. Now being in Jays hands make it the first production ZR-1 in public hands. I wonder how the guy who payed a million feels about this now? I have wondered if the Vette team has given the Z for Jay to care for so GM will not sell it off? Is it hidden in plain site? I wish GM would just give these special cars to the Vette Museum and let them be protected.

GM marketing blows it again. They should have forced the G8 DT on the idiot and given him no choice. Or let him choose from the other 3 cars they plan to keep. It is bad enough he picked the Torrent but to pick a car they ar dumping soon. It is bad enough for the press on the ST going away but to now do this on top of that. That is as bad as calling a Cadillac concept a WTF. Oh well I guess it just not a good year to be a GM and Cleveland Browns fan. Err not a good decade is more like it.

Wow! A pillars nearly as big as my HHR's!

Is that the Flux Capaciter on the back.

The Caddy came later but he had the Buicks first. Sun Yat-sen, China's first president, took his first automobile ride in a 1912 Buick. And two Buicks bought by China's last emperor, Pu Yi, in 1924 were the first cars owned by an emperor and the first to enter the Forbidden City. A Buick advertisement in 1930 claimed one in every six cars in China was a Buick, and that "Buick owners are mostly the leading men in China." Also note the the kings of England also imported Buicks form Canada in the early 20th century.

Cadillac, Buick, Chevy and Daewoo [Himm? a line up similar to what we will have] already have the market pretty well covered and are showing a profit. Do you spend the money on a poor line up of Pontiacs. Or do you keep with what is working that has no overlap and is showing a profit? Lets face it Pontiac has only two cars worth a damn and the Chinese already have cars better than the G5 or 6 [Note they are Chinese not stupid]. They also already have the Matrix/Vibe. If GM was to sell the two best cars Pontiac has they could just rebadge the G8 as a Buick as they already do on the other Holderns and sell the Soltice as the Daewoo they already sell in Korea. If Pontiac had a strong line up and was doing well here I would say go for it. But you want to spend a lot of money on product that will overlap the Divisions Already in China. Sounds like it would create the same problem we already have here. Also has anyone got a clue what the Chinese really want. Do they even have a clue of Pontiac. If this works how much money would GM make vs how much they would lose if it fails. If you want to save Pointiac it has to be done in this country. As it is Americans less and less want Pontiac so to expect the Chinese to save them is nuts. For this to work we would have to show improved products here first and then there. Last I looked GM can't afford to hardly fix Chevy let alone much else here. There is just too little gain for so much risk. Again you have to think Profits. I has come down to getting better product here means less divisions. To get a Alpha paid for means less other models. I have two Pontiacs in the garage but I would gladly trade Pontiac for a strong and profitable GM. I think too few understand too that Pontiac could someday be brought back and rebuilt one model at a time if GM fixes the other prolems. Ok you spend all the money to make and market these cars in China and it fails what do you tell the other divisions in the State that are just hanging on. GM needs to run its world wide operation like its plants. They want less workers making more cars. Well GM needs less Division and models making more profit. Less is more these days. Besides DC would not want to see much development in China since they handed out the money. Many of the cars GM has in China are not imports. They are built there or are sent in in kit form and assembled there. China does not want to take in a lot of imports. If you were going to send anything over send Hummer. They build a hell of a close knock off already and the Chinese know what a Hummer is. Once it is up and running sell them off to someone there.

Might build a lot of G8's in black and will put some screaming chickens on the hoods to send over. In each glove box with could have a DVD of "KGB and the Comrad" It is the little know Russian knock off movie of Ukrains running voka west of the Volga river. The best part is Big Ivan and Little Ivan.

The car the last emperor used was a Buick before the communist came in. This left a lasting impression on the Chinese and they have not forgotten it. This was an advantage GM could not have ever paid for in their market. Buick has the preception deal down just as Toyota has here. Not sure bringing Pontiac is is the solution. Best to get a real understand of their market and what they want and can afford. Just sending in a Pontiac is just so GM. What is good for GM is good for China. You Buy Hop Sing. We are not selling Pontiacs to people who conjure up old images of the 60's. The Solstice and the G3 may be the best chance to sell over their. Most people in China are buying cheap, very cheap Daewoo's. Many of their people are now just getting a car and a two room apartment. You would have better luck selling the G8 to the Russian Mafia. They like fast V8's to out run the Crown Vic police cars in Russia.

It is not how many units sold as it is how much profit per car is made. Volume means noithing if it does not bring in the dollars. Avis pays little for the G6. Caddy makes a profit and with the Buick we will get that are shared in China and Europe they should also make a tidy profit. GM is in the buisness to build cars and make a profit not just building cars.

I heard talk of a sales of part of Saab to the Sweedish Goverment. If they sold 50-51% to them and supplied the cars they could help absorb a lot of the cost. They also are a solcialist goverment so funding a Auto company would not be out of line.

And the G8 ST goes on sale in the fall of 09.........OPPS! I hope you were not waiting on that one too. Like I said till it is in the showroom I would not put to many bets on platforms, models and dates. If you do you will be disapointed. We might be lucky if they even start on the C7 by then. GM has so many other things to spend money on first.

At this point we all should be smart enough to know untlil it is in the show room there is sure thing including Alpha. Odd are still good but in these times things change and changed fast. If ther is more than one 2 seater in the future GM has won the lottery. Untill the C7 comes off hold don't expect a second gen Solstice. The Vette is a priortity the Solstice is not.

At a time GM has little money to get the Cruze out sooner I would not hold my breath for a two seater car. The Kappa is such a limited market in sales and profit GM has better things to dowith their limited funds. A new Impala to compete with the new Tuarus is a much greater need than a 10,000 unit two seater. At this point we will be lucky if we get a Alpha for Cadillac and for a 6th gen Camaro. There are still a lot of changes to come yet. Time to stop dreaming and start thinking on what models will be profit centers. If it make little or no money we don't sell it.

The 4 Pontiacs are also a limited life. G8 Zeta will be around how much longer? Soltice without the Sky how much longer will it last 2012? G5 will be gone with the Cobalt in what 2 years? Vibe is not even a Pontiac let alone a GM car. I give Pontiac 5 years if they have nothing planned to replace these models. Might note here in town the largest Olds dealer bought a Buick and the largest Pontiac dealers before Olds was killed. That same dealer just bought one of the largest Chevy dealers a few weeks ago. Hmmm Someone knows something! GMC is around since they are high profit per unit. The G6 is dead because it is not high profit per unit with the number of fleet sales they have. It is all about making money not what models or market share. I expect more model cuts in the remaining brands too. No suprises here. It is all about getting back to the basics and the core products that show profit.

Well guys enjoy it while it last. The 4 cars we will have all have a limited life. G8 Zeta how long will this one last? Solstice after losing the Sky will die sooner with little hope of a replacment in the next few years. The G5 is gone after we lose the Cobalt in a year or two. The Vibe is not even a Pontiac and will last as long as GM keeps this agreement with Toyota. I give Pontiac 5 years or less. The only hope we have is if they have models planned to replace these we do not know about. im not holding my breath. I think this plan get the most out of these models and keep Pontiac alive till later when a dealer buy out is budgeted. At least a buy out of those who are left. Note in my town the largest Pontiac dealer just bought one of the largest Chevy Dealers. They were the largest Olds dealer before they bought out the largest Buick and Pontic dealers. They bought the Pontiac a few years before Olds went down. I think someone there has a clue.

Or they needed it to haul things at Milford.

No reason this car could not get a 260 HP or what ever Turbo Eco they have at the time and bump performance a little. The Fisker is using the 260 HP Eco now with more performance. GM could do just the same since it is a similar system.

You can watch Barret Jackson next year and GM might be selling some of the prototyoe ST's off. Just buy one from them.

Sales can prevent the Kappa from a longer life. The two seater market is a limited market and you do need to upgrade it one in a while. IF you don't change it up as often as Mazda does the Miata sales taper off till it is not worth while. I am affraid sale with the poor economy will slow Kappa sales and in turn not make it worth keeping when it is timw to upgrade. Pontiac will get a needed boost witht he coupe but how long will that last? I don't thing GM will kill the Kappa but the lack of sales will in the future.

This car is a bases loaded home run. WIth this car Lutz gave us what he wanted a ELectric that would sell on looks alone and not give up much in return. THis show what GM can do with an electric and what we have to look forward to in the future. The cars form Japan are just getting it in the styling deparment as they never hasd many well styled designes. IF they did they farmed them out to Italy. This is a landmark car. We mamy get a Alpha later but this is a Voltech E flex plaform car and with GM record of late I suspect it is 90% production as it is. At least GM has done some good with the little money they have left. Now if they can upgrade a Volt coupe styling to something this stunning.

From what Lutz said this is FWD and we may very well see somthing similar to this on the Voltech plaform. Sorry this is no Alpha. Ther Converj may very well be 90% of what we get in the show room and it would sell to many who would never buy the golf cart looking Electrics on the market. THis is the kind of electric Lutz wants. A car that would sell on look regardless of drivetrain.

Nice vehicle but I would caution replacing the HHR with it. I would offer the Orlando but retain the HHR along side it. With sales of 100,000 each of the last three years for the HHR, I would keep it around update the styling to a mid 50's mode on the Orlando's platform. But to kill the HHR to sell the Orlando on only is a big gamble. It is like so many other SUV vans nice but boring.

This would be good if Pontiac get the Alpha platform. If not your going to lose 2 out the three in the near future. Kappa and Zeta are not going to live long enough that they would sustain Pontiac long term. We are yet to know if we are going to get the Alpha for any GM division yet. Also we need to see some real number form the G6 and none from Avis fleet sales. To do that we need a better G6 with at least the AWD option from the new Buick.

My point is if it would help save GM to kill cars like the Camaro, I say pull the trigger! No matter how much I like the car. It would not be the first time a car I like was removed and it will not be the last. The good part is they did not spend a whole lot to make this car a Pontiac to the losses will be small. The ST on its own is not going to turn GM around but the other cars we have yet to hear of will help. The ST was only the first major shot. Or was it the RWD Impala or the GTO or the....... As in the timing of this. 4-5 months ago did anyone really thing that even Toyota would just now anounce they are cutting production? Alot has happened with even more to come. I got my Schwabe statment today and witht he market I made some money but we still have not lost all the jobs and recovered all the sales our economy needs. We have yet to hit bottom. Once we do it will take to time to recover and not MFG's will recover. GM right not is doing what they can to survive while they are just trying to pay the light bill. Once this is over the face of GM is going to be a lot different. Some for the better and future and some not. The truth is the Auto industry as a whole is in for a big shake up. I feel for ya brother but of late I am looking at the big picture. Even at my work We are not sure what to expect this year. We may be ok or we may not? No one can tell but we have pulled it in on cost and are prepared the best we can be for the worst. Even the MFG we deal with have cut back and many did not even go to SEMA this year. Some of them will not make it no matter what. I can already see that coming. It is a death watch. Some of the performance names are ones we all have known for years.