hyperv6

I would love to see them grow Buick and Chevy in China. I think Chevy would prove very vital in the growth of the low end China market as more people get money to buy thier first cars. I saw a show where a Chinese man was proud to go buy his small Daewoo based Chevy. There are multi billion reason for GM to stay in that market. They would be better off to sell the N/A divison vs selling China. Not that I would want or expect that to happen. The only thing I fear is the Chinese goverment can come in at anytime and force GM to do what ever they want. Oh that can happen here now too so Never mind.

And Ground Zero is toxic for how long after a nuke goes off? Calling it the Soul of GM dose nothing for the average consumer. They could care less. It is either get the new product on the floor and prove it is improved or shut the doors. Soul or not if it is not shoing a profit either Fix it or Kill it. I like Buick and think it can be saved but the longer it takes the more is wasted that could save GM. I know GM's money limits much of what it does but so does time. If you want to save Buick do it with your brain not your heart.

Better tell Fiat who is about to re entering the American Market. Or the ther several other brand working to come back. You have to stop thinking the old way as today car companies are doing many things not even imagined in years past like GM filing for Chaper 11? Many now think it is insane to even prop up Buick or Pontiac at this point. The fact is Buick shutting down here in and around the GM crises is small potatoes. How many will really miss a few SUV and two cars? To many Buick died a while back. Besides removing Bucik form the US market and bringing it back while it lives in China is not like bringing back Packard. I would bet if they brought backa FIrebird and slapped a Pontiac plate on it and sold it at a GM dealer people would buy it. You have to start thinking outside the box as GM just does not have the money in N/A to support everything. Heck they brought back the Camaro after a lot of negitive press? And how much are they spending? Bringing anything back is mearly a option.

It is unlikley GM to sell Buick. Buick unlike Olds and Pontiac is selling very well somewhere in the world and is making a good Profit. It has nothing to do with souls. Hell GM tradition and lack of adaption is what created this mess to start with. I could see Buick here being shut down. Once Chevy and Caddy are stablized in reorganiation Buick could be reintroduced later to this market as they will be still making and selling many models in China. This also will close a lot of dealers. Heck some idiots may see them as an import and swear they are better cars. LOL Heck if GM does this right just because a brand goes now does not keep it from reintroing it later as limited targeted model that could be sold in a Chevy or Cadillac store.

It sure was not RW who stopped Lutz on some of his product plans. The board was also the one who had to be sold on the Volt. They were affraid of it and Lutz and RW had to sell them on the car because GM was so far behind the Prius already. They had to convince them they had to move to the next step beuond the Prius. Invest in Pontiac. The Solstice was the last real investment in Pontiac they did. The Holden is just a rebadge, the G6 is a light refresh and the Vibe is a Toyotas rebadge. GM has put little into Pointiac even in promotion. They did not even show at the Pontiac nationals this year the largest Pontiac race and car show in the country. I have been saying all along GM is killing Pontiac as the cars finish their life cycles. The niche thing was just a way to slowly starve the stand alone Pontiac dealers out with the remaining years of the Solstice and G8. GM here locally is already making back room moves to close dealers and give others new brands. There is a move here to close a Chevy Buick store and give the Buick dealer to the new Pontiac GMC store. The Chevy dealer will fade away as there is one only 8 miles away aready. Another Pontiac store in Akron has just bought a large Chevy dealer. They bought the Pontiac store a couple years before Olds shut down. They knew it was coming just as they have seen with Pontiac and moving to Chevy today. This is part of the old GM system that Rick could not change and it needs addressed. As I have said The way GM has done buisness for years has caught up to them. The ways of waste and slow responce can can no longer be absorbed. With the longer the Economy is down the more GM will have to cut. At worse they will be Chevy and Caddy. If needed Buick can be left to run in China and be reintroduced later. Buick is not unlike Holden and Opel and the N/A operation is not the only option to their future as it is with Pontiac. Right now their is just no money, interest or time at GM to save Pontiac anymore. GM will need all they have to make Chevy and Caddy into what they need to be. Too many here wish for Turbo AWD GMC pickup revivals and large RWD sedans to return. GM right now needs to make the Curze the best damn car they can. Not as good as Honda and Toyota but better. They need to make Chevys that are AFFORDABLE, high quality, attractive and did I say AFFORDABLE. In tight economic times people shop by monthly payments and long waranties not HP ratings and 1/4 mile times. Hynundia is not selling well just because of the backing if you lose your job. Hyundia is selling becasuse they are gving the most car for the money. VALUE is the key word. Make it good looking, make it relaible and make it affordable and they will come to you. GM can not just target Honda and Toyota as the level to achieve they need to aim higher and under price them. Where I work we are the Walmart of the our industry. We are everything right or wrong with the market. Many buy form us because they love us and many buy from us even though they hate us and why? Because we give them value and the cheapest price in town on the best names in the industry. Even in these hard economic times we are still doing well selling products people could eaisily live without. In fact we even are highering and added overtime.

The fact is GM could let Buick live in China and make a profit. Then in a few years after Chevy and Caddy are stablized reintro Buick back to the N/A market. GM and Chevy need to get back to basics and just build affordable, high quality cars, good on gas that people like. The fact is Chevy is GM. If GM can not turn Chevy around nothing else matters. It is time GM get back to the core market and rebuilds. In time Toyota will appear to be the bloated company and GM the growing one. Hyundia did just this. They went back and fixed everything they needed to. Now people love them as they offer cheap, affordable quality cars. We here need to stop dreaming about GM building AWD Turbo pick ups, Kappa III and large RWD cars if they can't sell a Cruze or a even better Malibu in large numbers at a profit. GM needs to step up and make Chevy that are affordable better than anything on the market. As good as just will not do it. Making the core cars profitable will let GM do the kind of cars we want. You have to do the hard work before you play. Even cars I hate like the Spark and Orlando need to beat not just meet the compitition. We only need to look at the top selling cars to see what the real average people in this country want. Most are not fun cars but they pay pay the bills. Also key is the Volt has to work and last long enough to permit a profitable second gen. GM needs to lead in this market. The Prius and new Honda get way too much credit for what they are. GM really has the better idea and needs to make it the right way to go. It is kind of like the Beta VHS fight. The winner take it all. We here lament how GM should have changed over the years. We as GM fans much change too if we want our company to survive. I too am a GM fan first and division fan second. GM must live on.

This was my thought. Gee honey lets go buy a new H2 now because I might lose my job in 3 months? My thought is Hyundia sales are growing more because one they are a growing company to start with since they did not sell a lot of cars before. Second they are a cheap good value on the market where Toyota's and Honda's just keep getting more expensive. Finally Hyundia I find are often bought by people who shop monthly payments. They often don't shop overall price but how much they pay a month. I think Ford and GM could come up with something a little better. I wish they would jump up the warrantied a little more. If they are both claiming to be so improved they shoul up the warranty on each new car coming out. Put their money where their mouth is. Or change in this case. I know extending the warranty would add some cost and hurt extended warranty sales. But if you want people to believe in your product you need to show you believe in it first. Besides The 2 08 GM cars I have are both trouble free since purchase. I had one TSB done but other than that the HHR and Malibu have been flawless.

Well I was going to state my case here but Evok has cover everything I had to add and then some. In fact he hit it out of the park. Some of the keys here are it takes money to make a company smaller and more efficent. It cost money to buy out employees and dealers. It cost a lot of money to shutter plants. Also the other issue is even a prepackaged Chapter 11 is not something 100% sure. Even if GM makes the deals on that there are no signed agreements and mostly it is a hand shake deal. If the economy worsens they can pull out on GM and stop the whole deal. This was pointed out in the WSJ on Wed. GM's greatest hope now is the economy stops dropping. If it can level off and let the markets climb it will help them a lot. Then if the car market has a good second half it will help. Right now GM is getting killed and the other car companies could Join GM in trouble if they have to keep burning through cash reserves. A flawed system that fought change all the way to the top, some bad decision over the years, Poor product in the past and a lot of bad luck in timing but then often you make your own luck. This day was comning and no one could not have stopped the perfect storm here . Rick had the ship turned into the wind so it could ride out the waves but then a large wave of the economy came over the bow. Rick had not onl a ever changing deal with economy but changing goverment regs that hampered him even more. Even now with the bail out going on the goverment is looking to increase the eviro regs that could add another 14 billion each to automakers cost. I know GM put themselves in trouble but at time it is almost someone some where is out to make sure they do not get as second chance to recover. Too often when something start to go right they get stopped again and again. No one could have that much bad luck.

Ok he has laid out his reasons all in one spot. Please address each point on where this is either right or wrong in one spot. At that point it is time to agree to disagree. Don't just make fun of his Ideas, give us your reasons why he is wrong. A nonsense reply like this will make you wrong even if your answers are correct. He showed us his ideas so address these in a proper way and you will make a valid point most of us will agree with. I don't agree on his answers to this but I do agree with how he laid out his reply. He gave 6 points that are easy to address, Reply to these clearly and politely and you may not change his mind but teach others what really happened.

Never had issues on the mirrors. They work fine for me. Besides after her 97 Lesabre mirros they are like truck mirrors. The center console cover slides forward to make a arm rest. Neat feature that few know about till you are in the car for a while. Or read the owners manual. The one complaint I have is a good one. The 6 speed tranny is too smooth for the paddle shifters on the steering wheel. You really have to keep en eye where you are as often if you shft by feel your 2 gears behind. The 3.6 is great and with DI should get a little bett mileage. Suspension tune is great it rides better than my GTP even with 18" wheels. While it may lack the very limit handiling my GTP has it is so much better and easier for daily driving. It goes confidently where it is pointed. the one weak area for material in the interior is the plastic. It still has a little more hard plastic in places I wish it had better. It looks cheap around the door speaker. But to be fair it is as good or better than the Camry or Accord. For the money this is the best car in class with a V6. I can not comment on the 4 cylinder having not driven one in this car. But I do have a LNF Turbo Eco in my car and I love it. The Turbo engine may make a intersting option that could improve mileage? The Key gor GM is to build on this car. Each car to come along needs to beat the Malibu or last Chevy model in Quality, Styling, Feel and Value. Hyundia is now chalolanging moany because of these factors. The bad quality rep was earned over a long time and has to be earned back one car at a time. This takes a while and GM doed not have forever. At least the sales have gone to levels most Chevy cars or any GM car sells at so someone has crossed over. I do agree to put some of these in fleet rental units only as top models to shine. Too often you get a Enterprise car that is a crappy entry level car like the Cobalt I had where it did not even have remote door locks. Talk about bad impressions.

I just fear in a time it is hard to sell any car a large car is not going to fair well. Yes they will sell but how many? What other cars could GM be investing in that would do more to bring in more volume and profits? The problem anymore is most Camry and Accord owners are not going to move to cars like this. You may get them from Dodge? Also if they have money they will go to a more upscale image car. We here think like enthusiast and traditionalist when the majoprity of the buying public sheep will be happy with small FWD sedans. I have liked this car from the start but the new grill looks to tacked on Korean.

I read this in yesterdays issue. IT is a true fact and not one GM did not know going in. You will have to earn your way back. I know GM knew it would take one generation of this car to win some creed and in time people will come back. The problem is now the Economy has hurt them on the time front. The story on Ford worring about GM and Chryslers Bankruptcy giving them an advantage over Ford already signed deals is a good read as is the story on how thw prepackaged Chapter 11 is no walk in the park as many think it is in down economic times as this. I for one know the truth on the Malibu and was glad I bought one for my Mother. She loves it and it has been a sold problem free driver all the way. I never thought I would like it till I got to sped some time behind the wheel and at that point I would gladly give her my GTP for it.

Try this. State what Rick should have done at GM that he did not do and how he would have paid for it vs telling us what he did wrong or just that he did a bad job. Even a list of accomplishments and failures would be from all of us. But the key part on what he should have done is you must be able to back up why and the important key is what he had to do to make it happen and how GM would pay for your plan. PS hind sight is twenty twenty so keep this in minds when you make case. Keep it from a persepective as if Rick was moving forward with out the benifit of know what was lying ahead. This will give us a better look at what your trying to say.

He may need the money in 60 days if Obama is not happy with him either. Give the guy a years pay and see what he is doing. After one year he can live on that and give the $1 PR BS a try. As the public goes they are idiots. Just look at how they have voted the last 20 years. I have always said just watch an episode of Cops and see where society as a whole is going.

Good car to steal G8 sales.

If GM had prepared in the 60's for the 70's they would have been ready. The Vega was the right idea in 1970 that was so poorly exicuted it did little for GM in 1973. IF anything cars like the Vega, Pinto and Gremlin showed how bad the industry was. These cars were designed and planed in the 60's. IF GM had built the Vega like it did the Chevelle in 1968 imagine how well it may have been. But by 1973 the quality was gone.

Tight money and poor economy will benifit smaller cars and affordable cars. The Korean cars are not selling well because they are the best cars on the market. They are selling because they are the best value and are affordable. Any money GM has needs to go to the cars and the markets that are going to sell in these times. GM can not afford to have any misses at this time. The cars they need all need to be high volume and sure things. Large RWD are nice but not the high volume kind of car that needs a lot of investment in right now.

No the development money already spent would be not be wasted. Much of it will carry over to the new car. My thought is why update a car for this country and sell it for only a couple years and then replace it with smaller car. GM need to do this right and meet the changed goverment rules so this car can live a longer life and under pin more than just two Chevys and a low volume Pontiac. A smaller lighter RWD car would carry on with the public in a wider appeal and if gas goes back up odds are they would not rot on the dealer lots. UInlike GM in the past do not put a car out if it is not ready for their future. A lot has changed since Zeta was started and GM had some bad timing. They just need to fix this now to live on for many more years. I just would rather see the money put into making it a Chevy be puit in to adding years to a RWD plaform.

I think you would approve of 80-90% of what is presented.

There will be no Caprice because GM needs to put the money into a smaller V6 car and not a large over weight car that will have a very limited shelf life. GM is going to havr to shrink their cars so they need to start now as it will take them 10 years to complete the job with little money. GM is going to have to build for the future not the present. If they have one?

With GM's lack of money it may be wise to just adapt the Zeta to a smaller platform. Much of the engineering work would be done. The only things needed to be done is to scale down the car in size and weight. If it ain't broke adapt it. Just think of the time and money that could be saved. This could move the program up a year at the least. The question is will shrinking the size along get the weight down to where it needs to be to replace a Alpha? Keep in mind the Zeta also will support AWD. This is a Holden need.

There is as lot to learn. Both books should be required reading for those in GM [reread for most] and the Obama's staff. A few people here need to read and learn the truth on how things back when we though it was great the problems were just masked by the size of GM.

Yes the general public as a whole and even many smart buisness and political folks miro read this as a one person issue. The real issues it he system that GM has lived on for years. At one time it could support the waste but today times are too compeitive and GM did not react or change their ways to compete efficently in a global manner. The new technology has permited countries like Indiam Korea and others to compete with us on a even if not advantaged level. GM and much of the American MFG did not react nor did the general public want to adjust to compete with others. THis would hav ment working for less many times. In a capitalistic world the one whio can be efficent and do it cheaper is going to win. That is how our country competed internally and now we have to do it on a global scale. It is time for those in our country to step and adapt or get left behind. Our countries system is nealry in the same condition GM is in. Again it was brought on by many years and failed changes. While Obama will make mistakes it is not also fair to blaime him for everything nor Bush or Clinton etc. There were many who contributed to the problems we face today. The key to day is for us to compete globally but not give up our Sovereignty. GM is the same they need to compete globally and regain their Sovereignty. GM will survive but it will be a much changed company. It will be sad in some ways as traditions and heritage are always hard to give up on. But on the other hand a company that agian will be smaller, better managed and faster to react will be fun to watch. I am tired of seeing GM lose and if they only end up with Caddy and Chevy but again be a leader to me it is worth it. I still have some American pride and I am proud to be an American. I want GM, Ford and Chrysler to become relevent again.

Ok I understand this is all RW fault. I glad that has set me striaght now. I was mistaken that the Sloan model that had run GM as decentralized for many years and that the many other CEO's did not fix what was wrong was part of the problem. You know like 20 purchasing operations for 7 MFG units with as many or more engineering units. I see now that that was not part of the problem. Here is the example from the Federal Mogal rep that sold parts to GM in the 80's. "They have many purchasing departmentand so many various groups that buy engine parts that that we sell thew same ball bearing sets to 11 different organizations at GM under 17 different part numbers under prices that vary widely and nobody in GM knows sombody else in GM is getting the same exact part for vastly less money than they are paying. That is a picture of utter diysfuntion." Not good when vendors see this years ago. GM also when told how Toyota did things in their plants they planted their heads in the sand and refused to believe their own peoples accounts. Even when NUMMI came GM failed to learn from the new ways of MFG. Roger Smith took a ship that had hit the iceberg and turned the radio off and just called for full ahead with programs that really did not address GM's probems wioth in their systems. Jack Smith did a little better and recongnized things needed to change but was just one man fighting a system and did not have enough balls to do all he needed to do. At least he understood some of GM needed to go and killed Olds. RW came in and made many of the changes needed to consolidate many of the problem areas but there is more that is need, By then he had little money to do it. It takes money to make a company smaller. It take cooperation form the UAW that was very reluctant. Most times they agreed onlty when forced with a plant closing. GM needed to revamp lines of cars but had no money to pay for it. The 900 program was moved up to bring in the profits it needed to pay for cars like the Cruze etc. Gas prices spiked and killed the sales they needed badly. It takes even more money to buy out emplyees, close plants that are not needed and buy out dealers you don't need. You just can't come in and lock the doors. The GM system and lack of adjustments to the Sloan model over the has killed GM. Also the fact GM untill the last 5 years really has not operated as a single company 90+ years. GM has been more a 7 headed beast with each head with 7 minds of its own. To think if one man would come in and fix everything in only a few years even with out the economy tanking and gas price spikes is crazy. Even the most respected people in the industry would still take years to fix GM under the present conditions let alone when RW took over. Rick is not without sin. The Fiat deal was a mess and several others but in the long run he did more good than bad and has done more to change GM than most CEO's have done for years. My great uncle was a hot shot at GM years ago. He was of the old school of though having been there from 1927-1962. I am sad to say the way he thought and the things he told me about how GM worked today are a lot of the reasons they are in this trouble. He knew and hated John Delorean because he worked against the system. Anyone who tried to bring changes was scorned. That is why so many just played the system and reitred. Books from people over the years have warned us of GM's flawed ways and why they would not or at times could not be changed. On a Clear Day You Can See GM is a prime example. In the end GM condition today was a group effort over years and not the work of one man in only 7 years. Today get the book Why GM Matters by William j Holestein and you will get a good perspective of the where this started, where it has been and where this is going. This book gives the good and the bad on this whole situation. I am not so much a RW fan as he was not perfrct but I will not throw him under the buse either since this was not all of his doing. It takes a Dysfunctional Corperation years to make a mess this big with a very flawed system. Then it takes time and a lot of money to repair it when it goes on uncorrected for so many years. The truth is GM was so dysfuntinal and money was so easy to come by I am sure many with in the walls of GM for years never realized they hit the Iceberg in the 60's and just kept on sleeping only to find most of the life boats are gone now.