hyperv6

1 Reliable is yet to be seen. 2 The mules driven have performed under electric as well or better than most gas powered cars. 3. Efficent is a given with 40 miles on electric already. 4 The first gen Volt is prove of concept to the public. Its job is to prove this systme works and is better than the Prius. How many year has it taken the Prius to get to this point. It has not been an over night sales secsess. At least now with the Volt the topic of electric cars is open to a larger goup and they are now willing to look and better understand what it is about. Chevy really will need to educate people on how the Volt works and the Prius works. The Voilt system should sell itself once they understand the differance. For those who drove the Mule in the press they have claimed it nothing special and it drives like a normal car. That is the best compliment this kind of car can get. To drive an Prius in a mode where it gives you fiull savings it is not driven like a normal car. It is like Hypermiling a gas car to keep it in electric power. The Volt just stand on it.

The Gen one Volt will not save GM but it will need to sell the system and type system to the public. If GM sets the standard it will lead the race for this technology. I would be shocked [pun intended] if this car sells the idea that this system works and will set the trend for futute electric cars. The only thing GM needs to do with the first car is prove it is a better system. Prove it works as promised. That it is reliable and has no problems. IF GM comes out with the Volt and it has a recall or under performs in anyway the press and the powers who work against GM will be all over it. GM needs to make this a flawless vehicle form the start as they will not get a second chance even on some BS thing. Just look how they jumped all over the Battery cable recall on the Camaro. There are people out there payed to make sure GM fails and they will be watching. That is why I think they have under promised on the mileage just has they do on HP on present cars.

I agree as it will be the first car you can drive like a normal car and reap the full benifit. I also have a gut feeling the 40 mile Electric mode may go higher by realease time. I suspect GM is conservitive here just incase they had issues.

No they did not. The Volt on the other hand is a whole new way of doing this. GM has stated there is no pressure on sales volume on the first gen. Now if the system proved to not be reliable or has issues. Also if they can not cut the price to make a profit by the third gen car then it will be a flop. GM is trying to prove a better system and then get others to use this system. Note GM is now trying to get the industry to use a standard plug and other things needed to keep this system open to all MFG. For the most part the first Volt is like the Impact. It is more a proof od concpet type car. But in this case it is a car they can sell to the public in small numbers to prove the system and have something to build upon. the bottom line is the Volt is not competing for sales. The Gen one car is here to prove a better way to do a hybrid car vs the duel systems the others are using. The Volt is to make the Prius look like the Saturn Hypbid looks compared to the Prius. The key is the electric drive as this system will provide a way to reach numbers in the future the Prius will never see. Even under gas power the performance will remain the same but the engine will be running at a preset level and stable efficent RPM. GM needs to teach people how this system works like a train and how much more efficent it will be as batteries improve. The key is it will not effect the way the average driver drives. That is one of the sticking points with 80% of the people who would not consider a hypbrid car. Imagine a small diesel turbo in a Future Volt. Imagine the milage it would get with a engine designed only for this application. The key for GM to show reliablility in the new car and how the system works. This is what they need to sell to the public not cars with the first gen. Now once they sell the idea and improve on it then the sale of a car that will compete price wise with the Prius will be improtant. I expect we will see advanced Volts in just a year or two. GM also state they will be able to down load and upgrade the first cars with the new advances with down loads. Firmware upgrades for cars is something that will radically change early cars vs nothing much can be done other than body kits for the present duel modes. I have never been a Hybrid fan but the Volt system is what I always wondered why no one ever worked on. Now the technology is being developed so it will become a reality. It is a better system but now the public need to learn about it and accept it as the better system. It will be 5-6 years before we know if GM has sold the public and industry on this system. If they can reduce the cost and show it works they will sell this tech to the other companies. Some are already invested.

Wrong as they will have a second gen and third gen of this technology no matter if they only sell a hand full of these cars. The first gen Volt is a not for profit, non high volume car. This car was to create a system that works like a normal car and a system of suppliers and technology that was not even around a couple years ago. Now that they have created a parts and supplier network the progress should advance quickly. Now if the sales are low and the price remains high on the Gen three then this car will be DOA. Toyota is in great fear that this new system will prove itself and other companies will adopt it. Other are already waiting to use it soon. The Toyota is heavily invested in their own battery system that they will take a big hit if it goes the way of the Beta. This hybid system fight is not unlike the Beta vs VCR battle of the 70's. The system that is adopted by the industry will be the winner. The Prius system is the first but it may not win if GM's system is proven reliable and the cost drop in the future. The bottom line is this system does not live or die on the first $40K Volt. too many think this way and GM has made this clear from the start. The Prius is just now getting to the point where it is getting to the point it is improved and cheap.

Johns book was good and it shows so well how messed up GM was. It is only a small snap shot of the problems they had but it show so well how they were not working together as one company. I need to reread it as it has been a while. I bought a copy a few years ago and glad I did. I know later he wished he had not written it as he burned a lot of people and bridges.

First thing we will all need to accept is the First Gen Volt will not be a run away sales hit. This is a car just as the first Prius that will intro a new technology and will provide the public with a veiw of a new way to drive and save. GM already has the work started on Gen 2 and three. We will then see this technology incorverated into more models and may even be incorperated as an option on many other models. Lets face it the Prius was cheap and a run away sale hit till just in the last year. Even now sales are not great on Gen two as they are offering 0% on them now. When gas was up they took off. GM should do well with Gen two and Thress as the prices will drop and by then gas will be higher. The key to all this is a car most will be able to drive to work daily on electric and still drive cross country with out alturing their daily driving habits. In other words you will beable to use the technology while driving normal and not have to feather the gas around town to keep the engine from kicking in. We are not far away from better electric motors that will have more power, lighter and more efficent. The same with the batteries along with faster charging. The job for the Volt is to set a new standard the industry will follow. This will give GM the lead in the future and with them clearing Chapter 11 they will be able to concentrait on this more and advance quickly. My onlyt worry is with the Green House laws the goverment is playing with is how much more expensive are they going to drive electric rates in the future. Also will the utilities be able to keep up with the growing demand of electric. We already have problems in some areas of the country during peak hours in the summer. The Volt one will be bought by the curious, the rich, the I have to have the first and the Evro nuts like Ed Begly Jr. [Note I respect Ed as he really practices what he preaches and has done so long before the the other Hollywood mental cases jumped on the PR train]. These people will buy enough of these cars to prove GM's system works. That is all they need them to do, They wil not recoupe the investment nor are they expected to. So to sum it up the job of Volt Gen One is to sell itself as a reliable efficent way to drive normally. Once it proves itself the cheaper more efficent Gen two will look to making more volume and profit.

Just saw at Autoweek they drove the Volt mule. They claim it is nothing special.... But that is a good thing. They said it rode, drove and performed as a normal car even on full electric mode. That is good news as most hybids and electic cars all have to be diven differently to take advantage of any savings in fuel. The Key to the Volt is it you will not have to change in you driving style or habits form a conventional car to be efficent. The only change you will need it to plug it in when you get home.

I had a friend who had a 1964 GTO with ever factory option. It is one of the few I have ever seen and they were all factory installed. This car was near perfrect. It was red and the one thing I was not crazy about was the white interior. It though was original and perfect. He just up and sold it 2 years ago for $20K If I had know he would let it go so cheap I would have bought it as it was a 40K plus car in the condition and optioned as it was. The Heavy Chevy I remember were near where I mowed grass growing up. Back in near 1980 the guy who lived near by had a red BBC HC with the black stripes and his brother had a identical one to it but his was just a Red Chevelle with the stripes. Then the guy about 8 houses away had a Can AM. I am not a big Vedero Green lover but there is a Firebird on the way home in Vedero with red lines. It seldom is out side but it is spectacular. It has the 400 on the hood and hood tach too. The neat car of late is a guy at work just bought a 61 Tempest 2 door with the old slant 4. It only has 32,000 miles and was just bought from the original owner a littl old lady. It had been stored for years but only needed an oil change and was ready for the road. The tires have some flat spots so I think he is going to change them. ANy sunny day he drives it to work. The only T-37 I ever liked was the local guy here in town that reproduced the Kanafel special edition Magnum 400 edition. It has been in severaql magazines. Other wise they never appealed to me.

Yep Chevy is a no go. You were right they never pulled it off. Yes in Canada it is Canadian market cars even if they are built here and sent over. That was my issue on my car as it was built in Pontiac MI but they had no in at Pontiac USA. The Canadian group gave me all my info.

I had read it was going but It may have stopped? Jim Mattison was doing it along with the Pontiac deal. GM also was now offering it in Canada. I had to go through them to get info on my Fiero as it was a Canadian car and PHS in the states did not have the records. The Canadian arm was cool they gave me a lot of info and even the recall plate I neve got here to check the oil at ever fill up. It may have only been sent to the 4 cylinder cars. The neat part is is they sent me one in French too. We always laughed at the plate as this on the console stating to check the oil to prevent a fire was a real resale killer if anyone put it on.

Thank you for understanding the story. Remember the Rallye 350 Cutlass. There is two in my area. I see less of these than I see of even the Hurst GP's. The economy caved in just after 1970 and the insurance was killing the big cars. This was the begining of the sticker cars. They has all these graphics but not as much are near the HP as in the past. Accept for a few very rare Pontiac engines there were very little to performance other than stickers. I remember a 442 form around 1975 or 6 that had a 5 speed and I got excited till I found it only had a 260 Olds V8. Also 75-76 Chevy pretty much gave up on performance. We had no z/28 and Vettes with Vega steering wheels. The sad fact is GM divisions did more damage than toyota or Ford did to hurt GM over the years. Imagine if they had all worked togeter to offer models that complimented and not competed for the same dollar. All these divisions worked when they offerd 3-4 versions of the same basic model platform not 4 versions each of 18 models.

I never said everything is this world is 100% correct including you. Yes some where some place you were WRONG too and will be again. I know the HV Chevy was availiable big and small block that was no seceret as I had a few in my area and one had a BBC so what is your point? you're not the only one who knows that? A wide range of engines were also available in the the T-37/GT-37 too but I suppose you want to claim they were two totally different models too when in fact they were two variations of the same car. The point of Jim story is the fact That such supposedly-perfect people [GM soldiers] did so royally f**k up Pontiac after 1970. His point of view was form a marketing stand point. In his case such as yours hind sight is 20-20 but mistakes were made and some people have different opionions than you. That does not make you right and everyone else wrong and you need to accept the fact that right or wrong other are permited to have their say. So sorry I do not bow to your alter. I find it odd as you correct everyone else that either lived the history, wrote about the history and many who make a good living selling history of Pontiac and GM and you are just on a web site. I am sorry I even mention this story. I hope some will read it and enjoy it as I thought it was a nice review od names people in GM and the things they did or did not do. Agree with it or not we all need to look at other views and opinions. I have wasted enough time on you time to move on as It is not as important to me as it seems to be to you. In other words get a life.

For a few years the Pontiacs were getting pretty high priced for what I would term not anything rare type cars when it would take a numbers matching Z/28 or a LS 5 or even a convert SS Chevelle. The economy may have dropped some of the prices on the Pontiacs as I just checked and the Judges are still up in six figures if documented but many of the GTO's are back to where they were a few years back. I had a couple buddies traqding in GTO's thew last couple years and made some big coin on cars that were nice but not for the price they sold for, One thing I think helped the Pontiac was PHS for a few years and now they offer the same for Chevy. Olds guys are hurting since many of the records burned in a fire at Olds years ago.

>>"Unless you really feel you know more than the guy who lived it first hand?"<< I do not, but as with any deeply-involved POV, the question of objectivity rises right to the surface. You don't think everyone who was ever 'there' is dead-on accurate? Ever read of 10 people giving individual descriptions of a criminal to the police ? Last direct involvement Wangers had with PMD was in '70, the height of PMD's performance engineering. You think he was happy about no longer being directly involved w/ the marque that realized his childhood dream???? This is basic human nature, confirmed by what we both readily know about Wangers (& his hobbyist involvement) since PMD right up to today. This speaks volumes of your Opinion. I find it funny how you feel everone else is wrong and you and your opinionated fact over rule everyone else including those in the hobby and who partisipated in the act of working there. The T-37 was also born out of the economy that was in poor condititon. Pontiac dropped from 3rd in sales and they wanted to capture sales with a lower cost car. The T-37 was GM's code for coupe and Pontiac used the name. They did apply this to a hard top also. Pontiqac was trying to win back sales they lost to the Maverick, Vega and other low cost coupes and sedans. Production for the GT-37 the rival for the Heavy Chevy was less. You're 20K quote also included the non performance T-37. The GT-37 only had 5,802 for 1971. The GT 37 was hard top only since the sport mirrors would not fit the coupe doors so it was never offered in the slightly lighter coupe. Either way there is no reason to argue with some one who knows more than the people at GM. I can quote their opinions and their ideas only to be told by someone not even involved that they know more. You are not the only one involved with Pontiac. It is ok to have your view but to make wild claims if they built 97 limited cars that made them a performance division. If that is what it takes your revisionist hind sight and it makes you happy then fine. It is a good thing Delorean is not here anymore as if he made a speach you would stand up and correct him with your opinions. Anyway the story of who killed Pontiac is interesting and is from someone who was involved, he has a right to his view. It is his opinion and who has a right to say he is right or wrong. Better contact the magazine and tell them you know it all so they can let you write the magazine each issue. No need to interview all those peskey people from GM since they know little or recall little correctly.

The T-37 was a decontented GTO for all intents. Also it was a way to cut the insurance cost for many. The Heavy Chevy package was not promoted much and few people today let alone back then knew much about it. Either way the numbers for each make them a rare car today. I still don't see much impact of the T-37 and it still is being overlooked often in the muscle car market other few other than Pontiac fans really care for one yet today. Even today if your going to buy upscale muscle car you buy a 442 or GTO if you want a cheaper one you buy a 1971 Chevelle SS. Chevy had no need for a decontented car since they were cheaper to start. You had better accept Delorean inherited many cars he did not want at Chevy. He got a lot of Ed Coles projects he did not want. He did what he could but many of his moves were blocked as he no longer had Bunkie running block for him. He left after a short time there as he could do very little of what he really wanted. {Read onb a clear day you can see GM by Delorean and it out lines his many fights during Pontiac and Chevy. Low volume V6 TA Turbo, 455 HO and 455 SD Completely immaterial??????? Please you make me laugh. You are trying to say if you build a few hundred to just over 2,000 cars that make you a serious player in the performance maket? This is not Shelby! With numbers for the 455 SD 1973 of 252 and 1974 of 943 that does not make a performance division. The 455 HO did better at 1971 2,116, 1972 at 1,286, 1975 at 857 and 1976 at 319 in the Bird. Lets face it other than these rare engines the stock 400 Pontiac may have been better than most back then but were far from what Pontiac offered only a few years before. That IMO is too little and much too few. As for Buick my comment was only the GN. I never commented in the past. In the 80's Buick had one car and it was not till 1985 till they got it right. I love this car but did Buick need to be the one selling it? As for the GS and GSX that was years before and had nothing to do with my comment. My comments were focused that we had a Monte Carlo SS 305 HO and Pontiac GP with a 305 even the 2+2 was available with a 305 base engine that was nothing. Should the claimed performance division be the first one in performance or your luxury division? Again a perfomance division with no performance? Ok on you last comment I can see you know it all. If you think they did such a great job since 1979 to each his own. other than a good model here and there the division lost its way and seldom got good GM support. It lived off of marketing as a performance division but often with no real performance . But today they no longer can do that since only two of their cars were real performance cars. You can't fool people forever. Hell Chevy has a Cobalt SS but Pontic has a G5 with a what? I did not hear you!! Did you say a 2.4 4 cylinder that has no performanc about it? I don't think Jim is too bitter as he is still worth a big chunk of change. Also again agree or not with him I will let his word stand over you or I since he was there. I think even you are not that aragent to think you know more than someone who was a part of most of this history. Sometimes they can tell you things you may not like but just because you don't like them does not make them wrong. Either case this story was his opionion and he has a right to it. What Pontiac magazine is interviewing you for your Opinion?

I thought you knew your history? The GTO was a broken rule. THe Trans AM Chicken was killed till Schinella broke rules and painted the prototype Johnny Player gold and black. This time Michelll gave in and approved it. He killed it before. The Fiero was klilled many times by GM and was farmed out to hide the program. They then lies and called it a commuter car and built a high mileage model they never really sold to convice GM keep it alive when they found out the program was still around. Delorean broke rulles on the Firebired a and almost got what he wanted till he was saddled with the Camaro. He still had them rework it from what GM wanted him to use to make it at least a little different. There are more cases where he broke rules and was stopped. The OHC engines were hated BY GM, THe FI engines he wanted later after the 57 were hated. The read disc brakes he wanted were klilled by GM, THe radials he wanted in the 60's were killed by GM. THe two seater he wanted was killed by GM. ETC! If you want to go back farther on wheels the Skylark has special wire wheels in 53. It too was a rare like the caddy wheel. Hey it is Jims take on thing if you want to disagree with what he said fine. I do not always agree with him too but he has one advantage over you or I he was there and we were not. Unless you really feel you know more than the guy who lived it first hand?

I truly think the end was decided when they killed the ST and called for a niche divison. I do not think they would have replaced any of the cars they kept, each would have dies at the end of ther life cycle. Obama just gave them an excuse to move it up. The Pontiac has had a history of little friends in GM. Note the one friend they had is retiring I think he is tired of fighting the battle with in GM.

My factory forged 18's on my HHR have very little weight on them. My guess the the tires are just cheap OE tires as usual. GM and most other car comanies want the cheapest tires they can buy. That is why Goodyear and many other tire comanies are pulling out and companies like Hankook are OE now.

I mostly see G8's on dealer lots right now. Only see a few on the road and even had the wife tell me she wants to see one on the road and yet has seen one. I expect a lot of GM cars will find fleet use soon as they need to dump inventories. They have just got too many cars as most companies and they are not going to sell them all in the next three months.

Jims point on the T-37 is if Pontiac was to be a upscales performance division why offer a decontented car? That was the job of the almost forgotten Heavy Chevy Chevelle. Chevy was your value leader. If you bought Pontiac it needed to be a step up from Chevy not down. The Grand Am, 455 SD and 455 HO were too rare to really make a differance. Lets face it Pontiac ended up thriving on graphics and movie images more than anything else. The Bandit sold more image and cars than any 455 SD. All that is good but the bandit needed more HP. Then the Tubo V6 TA [ You need to not confuse it with the 301] was a great car but again how many were made? Too few again. This was a car the Pontiac engineers should be thanked for but it was too little too late. That car should have been built in 1985 when GM finally got the turbo right. GM spent too much time selling the tubo in the GN and GM let the TA just be another Chevy. Buick should have been a luxury car not a performance car. Pontiac should have been a performance car not a luxury car. I expect now that GM will be down to 3 divisions and a lot less managment many of this inter corperate bull &#036;h&#33; will stop. Lets face it Pontiac only did good things when they broke the rules. If Delorean had not broken rules and was backed by Estes and Bunkie we would never have had the cars we have today. Pontiac only thrived under real car people. Pontiac needed to be run by engineers not marketing non car people.

I think that was the point jim was making. I do agree with the editor that I would rather see a quick end vs a long dagged our end with even worse cars. Even the niche deal I feel was just a lie to keep the brand viable till the life cycles played out. The truth is Pontiac had 10 strong years and that was it. yes they had some good models in the later years but they pail to the what was called the Glory Days.

Just got the July Aug Pontiac Enthusiast Magazine with a good story by Jim Wangers. Jim wote a good story that is better detailed thasn hi quotes by others on this topic. He name names and points out the failing of most since Delorean left Pontiac. Jim stated most in charge either did not know or understand Pontaic and what was built in the 60's or did not care in the later years. While I do not always agree with Jim he did point out many good failings of many at Pontiac and how they gutted Pontiac from what they truely were. Jim does give credit to a few that did try to keep it alive but they were too few in numbers to stand up to GM on their own. zzTHis is a good story and covers the main point of GM's failure that being GM's failure to treat Pontaic as a true performance division for too many years. Performance built Pontiac in the 60's and 40 years of too little performance killed them. Jim gives credit to Bunkie, Estes and John D for making Pontiac mean something after years of not meaning much. Now his list of who did not get it. Jim McDonald 1969-72 GM soldier trying to fit in. Thought cheaper Pontiacs would sell better. Gave us decontented Chevys as a T-37. Martain Caserio 1972-1978 True GM soldier. Affraid of critism of too much performance from GM. Held up the 455 SD and killed the 455 SD GP and GTO. Bob Stemple 1978-1980 Killed the GP SJ. his quote was "the GP was a luxury car and did not need performance". Bill Hogland 1980-1984 Failed to give the Trans Am it's own tuned version of the TA/firebird engine. It became a Camaro me too. The Fiero never also got the support to make right from the start. Mike Losh GM soldier. Had cars like the STE but gave them the 2.8 when a 3.8 was available. A Euro sedan with no power? Delorean would have fought for more on the 14th floor till he got it. Roy Roberts Never understood Perfromance and never promoted the Supercharged GTP the publicv and gear heads loved. Lynn Myers Pontiac lifer Woke up one AM and learned she was in charge. Missed out on the tuners for the GTP and superchaged engines never promoted performace in a true nature. Would not call the GTO a muscel car and never considered drag racing it. Missed the market. Introduced Bob Kraut as marketing manager from Madison ave. HE was proud h knew nothing about Pontiacs image or past. He was the man behind the GTO not being called a Muscle car. John Smales The toothpaste king from Proctor and Gamble. GM villain. Quote "people do not care what end drives the car they only want to know how good they look and feel". Nuf said! Ron Zarella THe eye glass man who could not see. Hired a lot of outsiders with no clue on Pontiac heritage. People he gives credit too are Bill Collins John Schinella Steve Malone Bill Harrison Bob Lutz Jason the editor also had a short thought on the death of Pontiac and while he is sad for it he said it could have been saved but in the end would it have? If so it may have been best to kill it now than to let them struggle on with no support. The end could have been even long and shameful at the hands of those in charge. Like Jason stated we are left with a lot of what if's. Imagine a Lutz supported John Heirency running Pontiac 5 years ago?

4 speeds are rare!!! Even more rare than the tent option anymore. I just saw the tent on a Ventura last summer. Not many sold and few survived.

The GMC I owned had the higher HP 4.3 it gained something like 8 HP whooo ho!!!. But I did make sure it had a limited slip. With the LSD read it would run like a tank. The handling was 3 gen Camaro like for a truck. In fact my buddy talked me into autocrossing it one day and he had been running his 4th Gen LT1 that summer. I out ran him by near 2 sec on my runs. We both were on street rubber and on a tight track. I could get the power down when he could not, lots of wheel spin coming off corners. THe V6 lack of power made me fast that day. I also out ran a few cars like an Audi, Volvo and Probe GT that were in my group. THe guy in the Probe came over and flat our asked me how I was doing that. I told him I did not know as it was my first try at this. He was not happy with his soft Hosiers on and me with my Goodyear All season Eagles. LOL. It was a good truck and the closest thing to a El Camino I could get that GM made. I would have bought a new one if the Colorado's ZQ8 if they were not so crappy inside. I had a couple buddies with new 454 SS trucks. Nice looking truck but nothing but gas hogs. They both did not keep them long as they liked them but got tires of the gas mileage.