hyperv6

It also has been on Z/28.com since 9-21. Jason stops things if they are off base since he has the right connections. As of yet the thread is still going.

Here is an older tease photo I had. It give some idea of what to expect if they do not make many changes.

The car pictured here is not the Z. THe car in Transformers 2 was about 95% Z/28. The Camaro staff made it clear the work has been done and this car could be pulled off the shelf very easy once given the green light. I expected if the economy stablized we would see it at some point. The big worry now is the economy is still not stable and can they get this out before they have to change the plan. It will be intersting to see what Settlmire has to say on this. His post are the ones we need to watch.

That is the deal but the $500 rewards the people who know what they want. I would take the $500 long before I go for the return. If I am buying a car it would not be till I know what I am getting. Too many people are idiots when they buy and never really check out a car first. You have to be crazy to buy on a $30,000 whim. Besides I have had dealers give me cars to take home and keep for a day or so. In that kind of time you should know if you like it or not. I do not needs weeks to find this out.

I agree that the 10 Camaro is the best we have ever had. Thew first gen was basic at best, nice but basic. 2rd gen was nicely styled but very cheap. I should really cheap. The 3rd gen was not all that great of an interior either. I just loved the years with the duel speedo needles and the one with the free standing swivel radio in the Berreta option. The 4th gen was the most luxurious we have had till now cheap but looked good. The 5th gen tried to do modern retro a very tough thing to do with air bags and other things while trying to keep the price down. Scott Settlemire has pointed out in the past the interior of the Camaro has paid the price to permit the better engines and suspension over the years. Money was limited and the cuts always went inside. They tired to not over look the interior in the 5th gen but again they did have limits on what they could offer and keep a low price point. I judged a national Camaro event a couple weeks ago and I think it was my 8th year. I have looked in just about any and every kind of Camaro from ZL1 to even a 4th gen 4 cylinder. I can tell you I was no fan of the present one but after spending time with all of them in one day it fits in fine. Would I like to change a few things...yes as would the Camaro team would still make some changes. The bottom line is styling is subjective and quality at this price point is narrow. I think with what they had to work with and keeping the price down they did fine. At least they did not just try to pass off a Monaro dash off as a Camaro. It could have been much easier and cheaper but the most wrong thing they could have done.

This whole deal was more of a statment. Most people will never use this as they will know what they want before they buy. The stadards set here are resonable and expceted. This is GM not Avis as they sell cars not short term loans. The fact remains there will be a few to test this and they will have the rules to follow that they were given in advance. THis ain't just buy it and try it.

After spending some time with the real thing on the road the dash is not as bad as it first seem to me when I first saw it. The materials are in line with most cars in this class and for Chevy. The only real gripe is the steerig wheel. I know they tried to copy the old Rally wheel but it just did not work. I would have felt better with the Parts Bin Vette wheel. GM could address this one easy in the future. Just adding the CTS V Suede p[tion wheel whould be easy for the SS or Z if they ever get the green light. Make it standard with the HUD option.

I missed the Idling C-5 but the Buff I was in was sitting in the hat sun on the flight line at Miramar NAS just north of San Diego on a neat 100 degree day. A co worker of mine was on the staff of a Bomber flight wing ground crew. He was the one who told me how much they smelled. I have been in B 17, B-25 and even a B29 that just never had that funk. The oder of history. The neat thing with the CTSV coupe is you cabuy it with a full warranty and still buy a Vette new to run short trips in for the price of the Wangers car. I guess I know how much it cost to build one less the labor and just fell it is crazy to pay that much to someone else to build it.

If you have not been in a B 52 you might want to step in and take a wiff. They may be rebuilt but them babies stink like on old gym locker. LOL! I guess since I connected with most of these cars years back and on an occation yet they just don't seem better than they really were to me as they seem to many others. I had my fun and loved enjoying them but when I get into a Z06 or CTSv I flash back to today and understand these are the good old days. But I would like to get the 64 GTO my buddy has. He leaves it sit most of the time since he has gotten a new plane. I told him I was going to steal it and clean it up and drive it one weekend. He was told me where the keys were. I may have to take him up on that. The Tri power (Mechanical Linkage please) 4 speed is one thing I never really did get out of my system yet. So I guess I do have a little nostalgia left. That is one thing that helps as with my work and the people I know I still get to play with a lot of cool toys and not have to pay for them.

Saw they may price this $130,000-150,000. Wangers must be a little lighter in the loafers they we suspected. But there are some rich guys who can't build these like the street rods they over pay. So I suspect he will sell a few. I would rather buy the real thing for that kind of money in mint condition. Or a Ford GT..... used Ferarri...... Or s dozen of other cars before this deal. I could make a Lemans into somthing similar to these for less than 50K.

This is a required point in this class with so many MFG using it as a selling point now. Job well done GM. Did anyone see the 09 Malibu in the offset head on into a 59 Impala sedan on the web? It is amazing how the Malibu held up well and the Impala just caved in. The Impala's crumple room went right into the front seat. With some of the cars in the Junk yard I have seen I do agree the cars of the 50-60-70's are no match for todays cars. many old full size cars just did not hold up well in many crashed. THey deemed the Malibu driver walked away but the Impala driver was killed on contact. Chevy should use this somewhere as it shows how safe todays cars have become. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6av-SCFJBYs Here is a HHR that took a hit head on at 60 MPH with a Chevy Van. Broken wrist and foot if I recall. She braced on the wheel and was hard on the brakes. Daughter was unhurt. GM has been improving and most of their cars are very safe. I sell did not feel well in the Aveo Loaner I had once. Those owners are brave.

I also think the first Volt was done in a very short time so odds are aero was a priority on this let alone even put it in a tunnel.

Low volume producers do not need to do many of the little things. They also have ways around them too. I met with the people from Mongoose Motorsports over the weekend. They make trun key Corvette Grand Sports and Corvette GTP Street cars. Since they are low volume and kit providers they can forgo many of the Federal requirment. I have not see a price but most of these Turnkey Kits are going for $100,000 and up depending on what you want. Often they will tayor special request for bigger brakes and engine if you are willing to pay. Like the Mongoose cars they can put in any engine you want and other options at what ever you are willing to pay. I know the Year One TA comes in several different levels of performance also. Needless to say most of these cars are bought by the same Rich people who have street rods built because they can't do it themselves but still want the fast toys that other build. With a weak economy these kinds of cars do well as people pull money out of investments. I see it everyday at work.

Wanger is just making the buck here. He knows a good opritunity when he sees one. He is a PT Barnum of the Auto Industry marketing for better or worse.

I would say it has no mention of Pontiac anywhere. People have been doing these retro mod turn key cars and not putting the division name on them or even the model. GTO is a pretty open name so he may be able to get by with that one as long as he does not use Pontiac with it.

The Alpha was held up to find a away to make it affordable for CHey to use just as they did with the Zeta. Look at the size of the small Caddy in the 60 return spot and that is the size a new Camaro will be headed if it is to be continued. I also will be shocked if it has a V8. The present V6 car is being used to pave the path to it today. Note GMPP is making many performance parts for it. GM is out to prove the V6 is a performer. I just wonder what engine will get the Turbo? Ford is looking into the same for the Stang.

I hope he make enough for a new hair piece. Neat car but I could build something like it for a lot less. This is good for people with money and are not handy with a wrench. Besides I would rather have a stock GTO.

The siumple fact is most of the new Buicks have as much power or more than most of the old Pontiacs sold in the last 25 years. The only real performance cars they sold were the Trans AM, GTO, Solstice and G8 V8 in those 25 years I guess you could make a case for the Fiero too. The rest of the Pontiac has the same or less power than what Buick will offer in most of their present enignes. My GTP has 260 HP about the same as the 3.6. Also factor in most GP's did not come in the GTP paackage and were GT1 or GT2 packages. The GXP and GTP packages were such a very small percentage of the overal sales. Just look at the G6 Most were just lower non performance models with cheap interior. Factor in how many also went to fleet sales. It all comes down to the fact the majority of Pontiac buyers did not buy the performance versaion of most of their cars. Also factor in that many people bought G6's because they were cheap. I have several people I work with driving a G6 not because they had to have one but because it was discounted so much over other brands. Not any loyalty there. I still think an Insignia will do much better than a G6 in this market if priced well. The Lacrosse is twice the car my GTP was. While we have not changed here much the market is change to a great degree. The general public has been moving away from performance to reliable, affordable and cars with a lot of electronic features. In the future a onboard indash hard drive will be more popular than many oerformance options. Sad but true. The younger gen is all about electronics anymore.

Yes and it will be lighter. Abeit a lot smaller. The only way cars will lose weight cheaply will be to shrink in size.

Bud I like what you like but serving only 6% of the market with a manual tranny is not all that smart. Many of the other thing you ans I like also are in the very small minority. If you note Audi, BMW, Benz Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Lexus, Lincoln, Acura, Hyundia Toyota, Bugatti and just about every other car company now sports restrained chrome. GM is playing catch up here. No one said the car would be high as a truck if you have ever seen the Lacrosse it has a very low profile but the average person still can get into it without bashing their skull. These are sedans for the most part and not Camaro's. It smart to make it lower than practical? I can see it now with 4 people in the car it scaping the concrete going into a parking lot. If the wood is as it is now in the new car it is fine and it is expected by most buyers in this market. A billet look would also be nice but how much would it add to the price? Sorry but you lost Pontiac years ago. Buick also was neither Quality and Refined in the last 20 years compared to the others in the class it is fighting in. That is how they lost the share they did have. You had better look around and see what is selling. People are buying Genesis sedans like crazy. Is it a car for enthusiast....NO. Is it a car that the majority of average buyers want to buy yes. Hyundia and Lexus went out and built a better Buick and it is time GM did the same as there are a lot of people with money in this segment. The They sold a hell of a lot more Le Sabre's than GN's. The funny part is the guy who turned Hyundi around came from Buick. Use your head on what would make money in this segment vs what you want. When GM looks at the MY Domestic Penetration totals the features you want will show as a 7.4% on the sheets not a 75%. Not a good way to make a profit. The fact is this part of the market is not for the performance enthusiast for the most part. Or lets put it this way the kind of enthusiast on this web site. I would not expect the kind of car and market that Buick needs to target to be popular here. Lets face it how many Hyundia, Lexus or Lincoln fans are here? The bottom line is GM needs to cater to the main stream crowd as they buy most of the cars. Boring Yes but very profitable. When you choose idea's and product for a company you really need to use both head and your heart and I feel that is what Lutz is doing. If we all built car here that our hearts loved we would bankrupt a company faster than GM did on their own. The boring cars are what pay the bills not the low volume fun cars.

A little tasteful wood is fine. Seats should be comforatble but no racing Recaro's in a Buick. Sterring at GM has improved on most new cars. Can't get too low or it will be undrivable. My SS already pushes snow at 6 inches on the front bumper. A wider range of interior colors whould be used. Everyone does not want black or gray. Less weight is great now just figure out how to keep it affordable and quiet. Note even the glass in the Lacrosse is thicker and heavier for sound control. Some tasteful chrome is on a come back in the entire industry. Just don't get carried away. Billet accents? 50 series tires are a little extreem with no other options. All wheels should be 17" and aluminum no steel or caps. Manual tranny? Who is going to buy it. You would be lucky to sell 6% of the total sales. Would it even cover the cost to go through the EPA ratings. I want to see a 6 speed option too but if it is not going to sell it becomes a money pit. The HHR SS panel sounded like a great idea and many said they wanted it. But I got the numbers this week and they sold 216 units. A manual tranny is like when people tell you let me know when you sell your car, I want to buy it. When you tell them it is for sale the buyers all vanish. Buick just needs to improve on the Lacrosse formula and they will be fine. If they can beat Lexus and Lincoln they will do fine. Even if they are lower volume here the sales in China will covermost of the development cost of the plaform. Buick has always been a affordable luxury car company with a couple performance cars not a perfromance company with a few luxury cars. Refinement and quality are their keys with out rebadging Chevys.

The 5 and 4 star ratings are required by almost all automakers if they want a car that is insurable. A GM rep stated to me that they had to make the Camaro to a high standard or the insurance would kill it. The other issue he said they had to deal with is cost. To keep cost down cheaper steel is used. They can make a strong light car but few people can afford it or want a car that small. It is not the customers that are asking for the crash rating untill they have to pay the insurance. I in the past has to pass up a Z28 due to the high cost of insurance just becaus of my age with a good driving record. A car with a poor crash rating that increases the premium will kill sales to people who will not pay the premium. I know as I have been there as I could afford the car but not the coverage. There is not an engineer out there that would not want to lose weight in a car but they understand the car needs to remain afforable. That is unless you are in some high buck car. The Camaro is not in that class and has to remain affordable. Until prices on Boron Steel and Carbon Fiber get cheaper weight will be an issue.

The quarter gills are nothing but styling and never were. They are a Camaro trait from the first gen and are fine on this car. Now if GM had put them on a new GTO or other car that had no history of therm then it is an issue. It is no different than the Lacrosse side spear. The hood scoop is very understated and non functional. I would have left it off it it contributed nothing. I did see a Nickey edition 2010 Camaro and it has the old style open hood scoop to the front similar to a old Baldwin style. The GM engineer told the guy from Nickey at high speed they would have a high pressure area there and he told them there was a good chance he would lose the hood. GM evidently figured this out and that may be why we did not get a scoop like this. I noted even the intended Z28 looked to have a rear opening or it was just closed too?

I think if they wanted too they could have made the Camaro a little more tossable but I am sure it would have added to the price. The Camaro is not that "claustrophobic" . It does have a large blind spot that many other cars do not have today but it is worth it for styling and the mirrors are proper to deal with it. The Challanger has just a large blind spots with the Mustang not that much better. Just the price for style. The interiro on the Camaro is not as bad now that I have spent some time with it. The shock value has worn off and the better feeling materials make it more accpetable. It also is true to itself and does not suffer the cheap feel or look of being borrowed from a large sedan like the Challanger. The Challanger is like the Challanger in the past. It is larger and cost more than the other Pony cars. It held true to it's original role for better or worse. Chysler could have made a smaller car and changed it but then people would complain it just is not like the original. It was never intended to be a segment leader and is doing the job it was intended. While it is not my kind of car it has done well to fill the old shoes. The key to the Camaro now is since there is no Z28 coming to upgrade the new car with new features, powertrain and suspension upgrades. These packages need to compete with the Mustang as Ford will offer future Bullit, Mach one and Boss packages. The track pack is also a prime special offering. GM need to do this to compete and keep ahead of the Mustang. Ford is focused on this car and will probe more into the new features. Sorry the puns just came to me. GM needs to do better than in the past with just sticker special editions. Good example is the Transformer car. It is nothing but trim. They should have offered the Z28 nose since they already have it ready and some other special options. Also the Camaro needs some Gear options. Check out the available gearing and if needed offer them as a dealer install to by pass the CAFE. This car is geared for MPG and would be much faster with a better ratio. Maybe offer some Odd limited options in the old COPO style. Like a base car with the V8 and steel wheels? Crazy stuff that would keep interest high. I was in an original COPO 69 427 today. Even a few COPO cars for track use like the Cobrajet Mustangs for NHRA would be neat. Make 50 with the ZR-1 engines and show what is possible. I spoke to one of the Camaro team memebers this weekend and they are epecting this to be a Camaro year at SEMA. We should hear soon more on that. Also the road racing team is coming together soon. I love the road racing but GM still needs to drag race these cars. Imagine the KB pro stock team out of G6 and in Camaro's? Fords is going to own NHRA soon and GM needs to keep some tie there. I am no drag race fan but it is important to many fans.

I am sure they would like to sell you both! LOL! The Nox I drove was leather and nothing outstanding nothing bad at all. I imagine the AWD 4 would be sluggish. How did you find the steering on the Terrain? I may just be more used to perfromance based steering and was overly sensitive. I just like the feel of my SS steering even with the electric assiste.