hyperv6

Things like Tilt, power windows, locks, delayed wipers, blue tooth, 6 speed man, Full air bags, AC, Stability control, AM FM radio will all be on the base, LS since they are already standard on similar cars already. So this would not be a suprise. They have already made it clear this will not be as cheap of a car as the Cobalt. It will have more value for a little higher price with options not expected on caes in this class. What Options? We will have to wait and see. I have heard things like rain sensing wipers and other new items to this class will make their first appearance. GM is wanting to rase the price of the car just a little and give the buyer things they can not get from Ford, Honda, Hyundai and Toyota. I amnot sure if this has changed since this was anounced a while back. I have noted they are doing things like on the RS package like 19" wheels and other things you just don't see in the subcompact class. Cloth on the dash and door panels is something many of the other lack too. I would guess there will be a few suprises with this car. I just hope the options will be enough to draw people in to give it a look. The new GM is keeping things close at hand anymore and we will only know closer to the release. We will have to watch the ordering web site as they will post the options there first, long before the Chevy web site gets them.

Yawn. It looks like the prototype my friend drove last year. I would like to see GM do some neat un anounced options or packages that would add some spice to the Camaro since all we are seeing is what we have been shown for a while now.

Nice looking ride. I would for sure find a better dealer If people would stop dealing with them they will go away. Fill out the customer surveys for your salesman. They really do get taking into notice. As for 12 weeks I have seen many over the years go much longer time wise with many companies but you still should have been treated better by the dealer salesman. If there service is not any better I would take any issues to another reliable dealer. The sad part this is only one dealer out of many more like this so choose carefully.

Keep your eyes on Europe and China. They will see anything first. Note they have already stated new sub models will be add as time goes. The norm will be a new sub model every year or two and not intro'ed all at one time anymore.

I think you would be wrong as the people of Flint went because they were proud and not because they had to go or end up in Siberia if they failed to show up.

Here is how it used to be in America and at GM. http://www.archive.org/details/Achievem1955

The less weight and lower cost are two key points. If these batteries are cheaper to buy and replace than this would make the cars a available at a very much cheaper price. Also factor in that technology will improve once there is a market for these and you will not have to buy from GM. I suspect outside suppliers may offer a varied range and quality of batteries. THis would let the owner choose what kind of qulity he or she may want to pay for. What I worry about is if the price does not come down we will end up with a lot of electric cars not worth the price of a batter replacment. IF it would cost you $5K to replace it and the car is only worth 5K in 10 years why bother. Given options on batteries would give the ability to make this afforable to some or also give options based on the condition of the car. Kind of like replacing tires on a 10 year old Cobalt. You would not put on the top of the line Pilots on a beat up old car. But a set of cheaper private brand tires will get the high school kid to school and back just as well.

Just call it a hunch. I have been around enough NHRA drivers to know they don't do much for free at the pro level. I just have a feeling something is up and I would have to guess the Camaro would be involved since it would look like a real Camaro in Pro Stock. I has a new 2010 SS in my garage yesterday and today. I was looking at it and feel like it would make a bad ass looking drag car. I would love to see one painted up like Grumpy's Toy.

Even the couple Cobalts are still showing the colors too and are not getting funds. General rule in good racing marketing is that if you are not getting any funds you do not show a name past present or future. Even in the past if a team was not funded by GM they may have had a G6 but it did not always have the Pontiac name on it. No name on the car opens the door to others you may be willing to pony up money as Ford has with the Mustang for several lower teams. [Pun intended]. I think GM has a hand shake agreement here. I suspect they have return plans and once the goverment is paid they will return in a big way.

One odd thing I have noticed is that all the GM drag race teams in Pro Stock are still running Pontiac's with emblems and names still on the cars. They are not getting funds from GM since they were dropped last year. Most times once a team is dropped they will either go with a new brand or they will run the same car with out the brand and model name on the car. I suspect GM has plans to return soon to NHRA but I only wonder what they are planning. I know the Mustang has returned could the Camaro return to Pro Stock be far off? I suspect there is angreement with the GM teams and that is why they are still flying the Pontiac colors for GM? I know someone connected to the Ken Black racing team. I will see if he knows anything or is willing and able to say what the deal is. Other non GM teams made moved from Dodge to Ford so I wonder what kept some of the top teams at GM? KB racing could have gone to another brand real easy being a multi time champ.

That is one car they should have put the pen down a few days before they did. It is just over done as Korean cars of the past often were.

I guess you have not priced a LTZ? Fully loaded they are stickered at $31K. Note I have yet to see a CC worth buying for less than $30K since we have been looking at them. The bu I have now went for a little over $27 and we got it for $19K. What the cars are stickered at and what they sell for will be different. While GM is trying not to come down as much as they have in the past most of these cars will sell for low to mid 20's fully loaded. But since we have no prices now weights on any of this there is no need to panic yet since it is hard to get worked up on guesses. Note the Cobalt SS and HHR SS both were turbo's that stickered for mid $20's and could be had for low 20's with no issues. I got a little over $6K off mine with no major incentive running. With a slow market and so many dealers it is the art of the deal and not so much sticker price.

Hey this is all just fun speculation. We could all be sitting here belly acking about the loss of Pontiac or have a little fun messing around with ideas. I find this more productive till we get something real to talk about. It has been a little quiet. It beats the hell out of arguing over a Patten line drawing of the new Malibu that is not a good representation of what it will be like. If Pontiac comeback or not we all will get up Monday and go to work. It will not make a differance to me if they do anything or not. But it is fun just to mess with the idea. There is a lot of things not going to happen till the economy gets back on track. Right now it is a ways off.

Splitting hairs over stand and non standard equipment or special packages done out side GM like SLP are pretty bogus. The fast is the cars generaly did not differ much in their normal standard Z28 and Trans AM packages. Pontiac did offer a limited Turbo Pace car on the third gen that was about the only thing that really set that gen apart. The SS and WS6 were the same car. The Firehawk was more a outside deal like the GMMG cars. The differeances in the last gens were like identical twins with different fingerprints. Sorry but that was a GM car not a Pontiac or Chevy any longer. At least in the first gen they lowered the car and even did a lot of tricks to the suspension that the Camaro never got. The one or two arms in the back to keep the axle planted were never used as were many other parts. I always called the Camaro a poor mans Firebird! LOL!

If you recall GM anounced the large amount of money they were investing into the Ecotech to update it. Much of this will go to making it a smaller package and I am sure the effciency and performance will also see gains. I do not know the time line but they are working on it now. I have to agree the torque curve on these engines with DI and VVT is amazing. Mine kicks to full Ft-lbs just over 2,000 RPM and hold it to over 5,000 RPM. The only thing I have ever driven with torque that flat was an electric car.

So that is not a turbo on the coming Cruze and Aveo? So I guess it is just a bump in the exhaust system? The last time we took a big jump in CAFE we got fuel injection standard on every car. This time we will see smaller engines with Turbo industry wide or at least a turbo option on each model. Drastic CAFE times bring drastic technology changes. I feel safe to say the 225 HP Turbo 4 from the Regal or a variation of it will show up as a option on the LT2 and LTZ. It will not make it a race car but it will be very drivable and give great mileage. That my friend is value as Chevy used to do it. If I recall Chevy is the one who made the OHV V8 affordable for the average family sedan When most others were working with old flathead V8's and straight 6 and 8 engines.

Not dead not a sure thing either. With the economy all things are in flux right now. As for that Pontiac group they have no idea they are crazier than we are. If Pontiac returns it will be a lot less than 200,000 cars. If we can get a couple rebodied Holdens at 40k units a year we will be doing good. Remember if they do it they will not and should not be cheap or lacking what they need to be world class.

I think that means it had a spoiler? HP will ve less a factor as we gain more gears and with the new Turbo DI VVT engines making torque in such a flat curve the number are a bit misleading to the real performance.

There again smoke and mirrors. Real euro performance in a real world class car needs to be GM's goal if not in a Pontiac then in the new Buicks if they choose to do performance cars. It is time that GM stop comparing them selves as like the Audi and BMW and start maikling Pontiac or Buick the car the others are compared too. Like the recent SRX Turbo vs Audi in one of the magazines. They said that Cadillac nailed the suspension and it was more planted than the import. If you want to be accepted you need to be the best. If they had only made the interior a little better they would have had a hands down win. If Pontiac stops being the Walmart performance car and comes back as a true class leader it can make a impact. With a higher price on a class leading car they can make it. But if they try to under cut the price and say it is almost as good that is not going to cut it. With no dealer network to support and no need to make econo cars to fill ever niche or need they can do one thing and one thing right. The real issue is will they do it. Low volume means they will have to get it right as you are not going to fleet sale these things if they fail.

Unless you are talking ram air hood or Firehawk they were the same engines and suspension. Only the shape of some of the body panels were different. If I am missing something tell me? When I deal with these cars at work nearly all the mecahincals are listed as 4th gen F body or Camaro/Firebird. The mechanicals are all the same. Even the WS6 package from SLP was a Camaro SS. I do not lump in the second gen so much as most years did have a real Pontiac engine and it own tuning for the suspension. Now starting in 1983 most of the real mechanical differance went away and they became mechanical twins. I do still feel bad for the guy in the Virgin Islands who though he had a factory 402 BBC Chevy in his 79 TA. I think I broke his heart when I told him he had a Olds 403. He was not the only one. All you have to do is ask where do you dump the oil in?

Pontiac did lose much of it's identity in the 70's and later a model at a time as they got watered down and became more corperate. They all did not go at once. As for what Pontiac had it was not the real performance of these items but the fact that Pontiac was first and offered the future in 1965 vs not getting some of these items till much later. Radials on the 1965 GTO would have been a major deal. Also the disc would have force the industry to play catch up as Deloren wanted them all the way around not just the front as a option. These things were really really cool as only cars like Jag, Ferrari and other high end cars offered such rare things. These things spoke real performance. As for my Restyled Camaro comment it was ment for the 3rd and 4th gen cars as under the nose and tail they were just sisters. At least the first gen really got different engines and tuning to the suspension. They were better in almost every way vs the Camaro. In the later cars one was not really any better than the other. IF you bough a Bird it was for the styling over the Camaro nothing more. The long and short of this is if Pontiac returns it needs to regain the performce image like it once held and be legitimate about it in a modern world. No more Euro wantabe. It needs to be a true world class performance car.

You miss the point. My point was Pontiac offered what few others did at that time. Often it was copied by the other later after they did offer some of these things that set them appart. The new car would need new things and new advances. How would you like to see Pontiac come back first in the GM line up with the 420 HP TT V6 and AWD? How would you like to see a Pontiac coupe or sedan be the first other than the Corvette to use Carbon Fiber panels? How about the first GM or American sedan to come with Ceramic Brakes like the ones on the ZR1. With Pontiac going for performance and offering cars that have reason that make them worth more than the $40,000 people will pay it. Pontiac has pretended to be an Audi or BMW from America but blacked out trim on a FWD sedan just was never convincing. Also with what the Pontiac's were based on they were never worth anything over $30K. Now if they focus on HVS like cars that Holden and Vauxhaull seem to sell well at higher prices Pontiac can return in low volumes at Buick dealers. Pontiac would no longer have the burden to be all things to everyone. The only real thing we would salvage from the 60's is the performance image. Today they would create new and exciting features just as they did in the 60's that we remember today. Many get too wrapped up in what a company did and forget to create a future classic. Time to move ahead as right now many of the performance cars today are the best we have ever had. Right now is the good old days and many will miss them because they are looking back. My present 08 SS 4 cylinder would spank my 68 SS 8 cylinder in many different ways. And with the way thing may go we may look back 20 years from now and say remember when?

I figured some one would post this. The National Geographic Channels Ultimate Factories went to GM Warren fab shop and showed one of the Volt prototypes being built. It was a cool show to see them at work in the shop putting the car together. But it also showed the Volt in detail on construction and many of the parts that go into it. Watch for a replay as this will be shown again. I did not know about it till I got a internal e mail from GM telling employees about it.

Like I said it is foolish to judge the car just on the line drawings. Even with these photos we get a little better idea but we should still wait till it is near final trim. We know much less about GM cars now till late in the developmen so we need to watch or rush to judgment anymore. No more 5 year sneek peeks like the Camaro anymore. I think most will be happy with the final result. I see a lot of Camaro in the rear. Nice to see Chevy getting back to a family theme.

My buddy just bought a GXP Bonnie. Nice car and looks great. You can buy them cheap now. The issue was they were not worth near $40,000 new. No FWD Pontiac was worth over $30,000 Now let see a raise of hands here. Let see who knows what a real Pontiac was. Who remembers. Tri Power. [Yes I have had people look at me as ask what that was and they were driving a new Pontiac] Duel Gate Hurst. 8 Lug wheels. 421 SD 455 HO WS6 Ram Air I, II, III IV, V Royal Bobcat [no it is not Canadian if you don't know] Reverb........ I wonder if they could use that with XM? LOL! What I think is lost on many is they think Pontiac was lost when they lost Pontiac Power. I think the truth is that Pontiac lost it's identity once Delorean left. He fought the system to make Pontiac as different in not just Perfromance but styling and features. Many of the thinks he could not get approved but the ones he did made Pontiac different and something that was not just another Chevy. The loss of identiy started in the early 70's and faded till the mid 80's. I think that is what Lutz tried to do with the G8, GTO and Solstice but he came so late and has too little money to do all he wanted. There was a lot of similarities with Lutz and Delorean. They fought for what they wanted and often stepped on many toes on the way to doing it. If Pontiac had gotten the Radial tires. OHC V8, disc brakes and Fuel injection as he wanted in the 60's imagine what that would have said about GM as a real leader. In the end we just ended up with a better styled Camaro and other restyled Chevys. Only the Fiero, Solstice and G8 stand out but GM screwed them all up with too little too late I suspect the new TT V6 will play a strong part if they should bring back the Pontiac name. Holden is all over it already.