hyperv6

The RWD Holden is the Silverodo of the down under market. Hard to kill a car that sells not so much in great numbers but in larger percentage of a smaller market. The better lighter materials will have to come no matter if it is RWD or FWD. The key is to keep them affordable. The ememy is highet car prices as the Asian cars have gained ground in areas of MPG and cheaper prices of smaller cars. People there are also faces with the rising cost of cars and hate higher monthly payments. They may still want RWD but GM needs to remain at a price the average buyer can still afford. If not someone will import something cheaper. GM needs to make sure they also have a FWD to go with this to shore up and prevent lost sales to the other FWD makes that are gaining some ground. They need a RWD FWD 1-2 punch. Some of these lighter materials will also get cheaper the more they are used. Right now many are not used much and the price remains high.

I also see it shared with the CTS V too. With the CTS coupe going away in a few years unless GM changes their minds it would give GM 3 different cars with the same engine. a CTS V sedan, Top Line Camaro and one of the Vettes. This would not cross shop the buyers and help spred the cost over several models. I just hope they dress them up different. I would like to see more engine detailing like the LS9 in the higher end cars. The plastic covers are ok for the cheaper cars and V6 models.

The Six auto would help but I don't think it would pick up that much as there is just much more mass to get moving. It would also take one of the newer engines too. VVT and the other additions will really help. I am still do not have a lot of faith in CVT yet. I just don't see the MFG putting much faith in them but for the smaller lighter cars.

This is the car taking the place of the Cobalt. We know it will be cheaper than the Cruze and that would smack it right dead on the old Cobalt price. The Spark or what ever mini class car GM chooses will take the place of the Aveo as the Fit fighter. But the Alero was never this quiet nor would it pass todays crash strandards. If it could it would cost it 4 MPG min.

Are you suggesting everything GM makes in ~2018 will be 3200 pounds or less in order to be LNF-ready? GM can't even make the new Regal 3200 pounds. No, a 4000 pound Impala or Camaro with one of your miracle LNF engines will be fine. Time will tell. Summit/Jegs is not the be all, end all. They are the Walmarts of speed and carry most of the standard market. They only lack the special tuners but in Summits case they even have them with the likes of SLP, Roush and a few others. So whats the purpose of keeping these parts secret? Do you really understand how many parts and companies each sell. The catalog would be honestly be 16-20 feet thick if they had everything in it. I do know daily they contiue to add hundred of parts. I should know I so it myself daily. You seem to know as much about the Performance Aftermarket as you do the LNF. Sure, there are EO numbers for a lot of the LSx stuff. But an intake for a LSx that allows use of a carb is never going to get an EO number. Now, subtract all the V8 parts... and all the listings for generic racing or standard replacement parts (I hardly consider a listing for a LED 194 bulb or a racing fuel cell to be part of the H-body aftermarket) and what is left from Summit and Jegs for GM 4 and 6 cyl cars with EO numbers? Not much. Why would an idiot use a carb on a new car. Are you going to put Bias Ply Tires on too? Edelbrock just came out with a supercharger system that is legal 50 states and adds over 100 HP to the present Camaro with no other work. This is just one of many options out there with more coming. OMG, a FWD SS with a problem hooking up? My friend's 1986 Skyhawk had trouble hooking up if you stomped on it, too. And to compare apples to apples, what percentage of SSes built in the last 10 years will your SS out run? How many of those are V8s? Oh that is right you have not even driven the Solstice with the LNF too. As for SS. My little 4 stock with the GM tune only will run 13.70 [ note my 68 SS stock ran 14.70's] and the Eco is able to handle up to 100 more HP before they recomend a upgrade in pistons and then they can see right up to 500 HP before GM recomends much more in changes. The future engines will only improve upon todays as GM is far from done with this engine. I've observed the automotive market for long enough to make an educated guess. You'll also note I say "Sometimes"... I know the rules of physics are not going to allow many cars to hit the 35-39mpg CAFE requirements. Sure, a ATS-V will be quite spiffy... but at a niche price... and in numbers that GM won't mind just tacking on the gas guzzler penalty. But if the Alpha Camaro ends up being primarily a 95% 4 cyl car, as Camino noted in the 6th gen Camaro thread, it should be retired. Imagining that future is like being in 1988 and imagining the Probe-based Mustang future Ford originally intended. However, even 4cyl LNF-esque Camaros might be too optimistic. After all, no Solstice came close to 35 mpg. And if we consider eAssist or hybrids, we're looking at more weight, complexity and cost... and more niche ...and we know GM's track record with niche cars... Fiero... Reatta...Allante...EV1... XLR... SSR... GTO... Kappa... G8... Sure, the CAFE 35-39 mpg requirements might never get enough traction to become a problem, but its clear that GM is taking CAFE quite serious right now... so we're going to get 35-39mpg CAFE influenced cars regardless if we get 35-39mpg CAFE or not. So you have been wrong before about the death of performance? Time to lean never say never. You may be right about the difficulty of getting a V8 Cheap but we will always have ways to go fast. That is the one constant we have has sinc Benz built his first car. Lets just wait to see what the ATS offers since it is the first Alpha and then do our complaining if needed. It is a bit foolish to to start swaping engines argue about the unknown.

The Genesis to 3 size is what I invision. Some have said the Camaro would be a longer wheel base than the ATS coupe. Not sure how true that is but we know the platform will be flexible per the need. I would love to see the Mustang size but in 5 years the Ford will shrink some too. The youth market is the key. They are the future buyers and there will be more of them as time goes on. Many like the smaller cars and engines but they do still have a segment that likes the older cars but it is just not as strong as it used to ber. The real thing that I feel hurts the Genesis is the lack of history and the fact it's styling while not bad really was to special. I fear they will learn and fix the issues as the Koreans seem to know enought to listen to people who understand the American Market. Just look how fast they are Gaining on the likes of Toyota and Honda. They are aggresive.

Well it is plain to see you have no clue of the LNF and what it really can do. So anything you argue on it means little since you base everything on older turbo engines that were awful. As for mpg, if I drove the GTO the same as my SS it would be much more than 4 MPG different. A LS will do ok if you just don't hammer it. My LNF will do much better than the posted numbers even when hammered on. Even in the cold driving hard it has never come close to hitting the 19 City GM post. In the summer driven hard [hitting over 20 PSI boost] it will see an easy 24 City and 31-32 highway. The hypermile SS owners do better. Driven hard A GTO will see 16 MPG. Lets install one in an Impala or Camaro so I can try it. Make em 3200 pounds and it is on. In this timeframe, the enthusiast market is going to be starving... GM would make good headway with a wink and a nudge to the enthusiast that wants to get around CAFE without sitting on a waiting list at the dealership, hoping he'll get to pay for the privilege to overpay for "one of the last V8 interceptors". Nice idea but then reality sinks in. Most people in the enthisiast market can not handle anything more than a simple bolt on. There are some good builders out there but not as many as one would think. Also the fact someone tearing appart a $35,000 car with a 5 year drivetrain warranty also kills the number of people willing to tear a car appart. Sorry but there is just too small of a market for the do it yourselfers no matter the wink wink nudge nudge. 85% of Summit and Jegs items only help you build a 30+ year old car or turn your Camaro/Firebird/Mustang/GTO into a smog-disaster that you will never get through emissions again. There is a lot more on the aftermarket than you think. These companies and others offer a lot more than what is just on the web sites and catalogs. Summit catalog is only 5% of what they offer if even that. There is a lot of parts out there offered by many companies that keep the cars legal even in California seeing that it is one of their largest markets. EO numbers are very common as most companies work for the 50 state approval. Are the parts cheap..No but few LS parts are cheap no matter where you get them. Also the parts are not sold in great numbers because few people want to spend that much with a car payment like they are paying and again the warranty comes into play. Most people so do not mess with the cars till the warranty is out or unless they buy it used. The discussion at hand is the future... where V8 Camaros are rare and GM and the dealers price them so. The rumor is no V6 in the Alpha... Might be best to wait and see just what they do. Getting too worked up now is not real smart. I suspect that there will be performace on tap that will top what we have now but it may just come in a smaller package in more ways than one. How can we argue on what could or might be? This is not the first time people are getting worked up with the death of performance claims. I think this is round 4 or 5. Who in 1976 though you would be able to buy a ZR1? I get your argument but it is not valid unless you just feel the need that you just have to have 8 cylinders as the power is still there even with the smaller engines. GM already has a 4 cylinder SS that will our run 80% of all the SS ever made. Hell my present SS runs is hard to get it to hook up off the line and GM has even added a launch contol to deal with all that all that lag you know. The Cylinder count issue is much like the mid engine issue. Some think a car has to have the engine in back of the driver to really handle. Well the Vette today proves it is the balance of the car not so much if the engine is in front or behind the driver. Same goes with engine. Some of the worlds most powerful engine are less than 8 cylinders. If you don't like the new car just keep buying the old used ones. While I hope they keep the V8 I also know it is not the end of performance with the other engines. In fact it quite fun to drive many of them. Sometimes I feel like by the time Alpha gets here, we'll ask, "Why bother?" Your last line really speaks volumes. To say this on a car you have no clue about other than it will have 4 wheels is a whole lot short sighted. To make this statment after you drive it would make it acceptable. At this point it is a little too soon to judge the unknown. Kind of like judging the LNF with out driving one. I think this sums up the whole story. I would like to save your line till the ATS and Camaro are released. It might be pretty funny when the sky does not fall.

Odds are they will have a option on a V8 but it will become more difficult to offer them in the numbers as they are today at the prices they are at today. The Question is now that do we have more people that will not adapt to the smaller package than those who will if the package is right. Keep in mind the Mustang buyers are more mixed with females and they have no cylinder envy issues. Like I said Chevy needs to redefine the segment in away that will appeal to the largest group of potential buyers out there. It will not be easy but with the coming issues they will have to find a way to live on limited V8's. The Sixth Gen will never live on with 80% V8 sales into the future. Unless they really sell the hell out of the Sonic. I know some will never adapt but most will. The move to 4 cylinder FWD cars was expected to be difficult but today look at the maket. I think they account for 75% of all the cars sold. Chevy may have to abandon some traditional buyers but they will pick up buyers who would have not been a Camaro buyer in the first place. There is a large segment of people who are not Camaro fans out. A Hyundai Genesis is the right Idea for a package with a limited V8 at the top. The thing GM needs to do is ad a little heritege and a lot better overal package. The Genesis feel cheap and still reeks a little of odd Korean styling. But they do have the engines and size worked out. If GM had a car that size the 4 and 6 would be fine and even a smaller limited V8 would still be a killer package. The 3rd and 4th gen Camaro's kind of let the Pony car image go away and they took on more a GT kind of image. That same idea would work now but they need to make the car smaller. Imagine if the 3rd gen has just been a little smaller and lighter. The 3th and 4th gens were good cars just too big to be the car they were really trying to be. It will be intersting to see what they do plan on doing. It is going to be the toughest Camaro GM has ever tired to build. They have a lot of things challanges that need to be delt with.

I understand and know GM pretty much can build anything possible if GM wants to make it happen. Hyundai has already pretty much already entered the RWD small coupe with 4 and V6 market. It is accpeted but still not like a SS or GT. This is how I see it. GM needs a 4 and 6 that would steal V8 sales. Plain and simple they need to get people to go for the smaller engines. They need to appeal to someone like yourself and ask what kind of car would it take to get a V8 only guy into a smaller engine package. But they also need to better attract the female buyers as the present car just has not done that. Any idiot can sell a V8 to anyone but to sell a smaller performance engined coupe to a gear head is a real challange. The company that figures this out will fundamentally change the Pony car market. The plain fact is the original idea of the Pony car is a myth today and lives on in styling only. Todays cars are real performance coupes and should be treated as such. While they are fast and fun to drive they are no longe cheap and basic as they originally were concieved. They have more in common with a 3 series than a Nova or Falcon. I wonder if they started marketing them as such if that would change things. I am not saying competing with the 3 series head to head as that is what the ATS is for. But on a cheaper level they can create a new nich for these cars. The world has changed as well as the market so we should expect change in the cars too. So many vehicles are changing as adapting to new market trends why should the pony car remain frozen in time. In place of being the smaller cheaper muscle car as they were in the 60's make the the smaller cheaper sports coupe of today. The Camaro could become the stepping stone to the ATS as the ownw gains more income as he ages.

Point one] They don't make G8 kits because there are so few G8's out there even less that will ever hace an engine changed since over half were V8 to start with. I know we are talking future but there needs to be a market before you fill it. We have no idea what these cars will need to even address it yet. The cars will come first and then a market can be created if there is enough demand. Point two] GM is not going to spent the amount of money to make engine swaps possible. This is better left to tuners that can address this. The cost and diffculty og OBD II testing for the different emission laws would be expensive for each and every engine package GMPP already offers. That is why GM lets companies like Mallet and SLP to the dirty work. Point three] You have not driven a new turbo have you? Lag has become nearly nill and the max torque is flat as Nebraska. Modern turbos hit max torque at just over 2000 RPM in the 2.0 LNF and it stays till just over 5600 RPM. That is 315 Ft-LB only limited by the Transaxle. The Solstice with a better tranny can go 340 FT-lb in the same flat torque curve. I used to believe like you but have learned better now. Point four] To build every car V8 ready that has a 4 cylinder would only add to the cost of the entry level car. The whole idea is to keep the cost down. Kind of defeats the whole plan. We are not talking 1,000 Hp. Many times like in the 5.0 Mustangs they used a factory clutch quad that was strong enough for the stock clutch. Any upgrade just a little better would strip the adjuster. The owner would then smoke his clutch in about a month. Little things like this are how far some of these parts are cut and that is why the aftermarket takes care of this. Finally you have to look at the big picture. Many who will do a engine change will seek a tuner or just do it themselves. There are less and less people who can do it on their own anymore. What few that can would not have issue buying parts needed from Summit or Jegs and doing this on their own. Trust me on this one as I see it everyday. I like your idea but it is just too expensive for GM for the too few people that would take advantage of it. Lets face it there are few people who can afford $30,000 for a V6 Camaro and then spend another $10,000 on an engine swap. IF they did they would just pay the little more and get the V8 anyways. This is not like the old days swaping a 327 in a old Camaro for the inline 6 that is in there. Besides I feel many of the buyers will ne fine with a 300 HP 4 or 400 HP V6 as they do not have cylider envy. Rememeber most of these folks grew up in 140 HP Hondas and never have owned a V8. The reality of today is if you want to make changes to a factory car it will cost you money and often a lot of money. That is why the bolt on market has made such a jump and many waste their money on computer chips and air filters in search of 10 HP. For right now we need to be glad GM is offering crate engines that make it easier and leave it like that.

They are only trying to give the market what they want with the parts they have. The reality of it is that many people want the dream of the old car with all the benefits of today. If any of them built a car to the level of say 1969 people would reject it. The cars back then did not stop, turn and must did not go as well as todays cars. Don't fall back on the old lie of well it was the tires. The fact is many of these cars would not keep with todays drivetrains even with the same tires. The real truth is there are many 4 cylinder Turbo and V3 car they would not keep with. Todays market is more diverse. People want a car the echo's the past but performs like any other modern car. So today makers are challanged with the task of taking a little styling of the past and putting it into a car of today. Originality today only counts at car shows and in the hands of collectors. Most cars restored to the original tune of the car often don't get driven anymore. Like the Mustang or not they have a good formula going right now. Just as everything else we discuss here hardware wise we need to keep an element of marketing in this. It is as much or more what the public preceives that sells the car as what rear axle it has.

It is not the cars like the CTS V or even the new ATS V that will be at issue. The Camaro is where the problem comes in. 80,000 V8 Camaro's do add up and effect things as would a Holden based Chevy performance sedan. GM makes the engines available now and that is all they have to do. The performance aftermaket takes care of the rest. The real issue will be in states that prevent engine changes like this. The loop holes are getting smaller and smaller in many and already closed in others. The best thing GM can do is offer Turbo V6 and 4 cylinders and offer tuner kits for them. With a turbo so many things are possible and easy to change anymore. 2 Map sensors and a computer flash can put 50+ HP into an engine with no problems. Just look at what the Turbo Diesel truck are doing now. A little tuning and 4x4 trucks can out run a Viper in the 1/4 mile. At least till they start breaking parts. Breakage is one issue on todays cars. So many have clutches, trannys, axles and other parts that are only a little stronger than the stock drive line. Often when you move the power up you have to address other drive line issues.

Well the Solstice is gone and I really don't see much there connecting the Camaro other than a more fastback roof line. On the engine front the V8 was never production in the Solstice and for the most more a GM show car or Mallet product. It will be safe to say it will have some kind of V8 but only on the top level. With Ford looking to the Ecoboost possibly in the GT we may see Chevy make a similar move. Ford may only offer the V8 in the special editions when it is all said and done. GM will be interesting to see what the new Chevy V8 is as the new Ford is really a sweet engine. The sound alone of the Boss is great as it the flat power band. Seeing the Camaro sharing the Alpha with the ATS should be a benifit to the Camaro. The Alpha will see funding in development that the Camaro would have never seen just on their own. This can lead to better suspension hardware and other drive line parts that could help upstage the Mustang. Yes it is more and more looking like the new Supercharged Camaro will have some suprises. Much of what has been said about it is false and when inside people like Scott Settlemire still say "what Z/28" knowing full well the supercharged cars are out and about point to hint of a new name. Scott is well know for telling us things with out saying them, Camino knows what I mean. My pick for the supercharged Camaro is ZL1 to go with the ZR1. Note too the new Supercharged Camaro may have more power than the present CTS V as I expect both cars might see a gain in their engines in the next year or two. If the Camaro is to beat the Shelby it will need more HP. Also I expect that the ZR1 will see a boost too as it still has more room for power. It was tested to 720 HP and still passed emissions and durability testing when it was developed. I suspect a special ZR1 before the end of the present C6 car. As for the 3.1 push rod engine???? what the hell if you are going to do that lets bring back the Iron Duke too. LOL! By 2015 we will have many new and many upgraded engines from GM. They will be lighter, smaller and more efficent. They will sport technology we do not have now and Direct Injection company wide. While we may get good MPG out of engines like the present LS it is not going to be enough in a few years. Gains of even a MPG or two will mean a lot. The one thing for sure is predicting the future will be difficut. We will not see small changes but large changes with little hints they are are coming. GM is not talking anymore so we will see few clues and a lot of misinformation. People will pick up on anything that looks offical just because the lack of into. Just note the people who picked on the ATS engine ideas that thought they were real. No matter what the Camaro really needs to get people to buy the non V8 car this time. It will need the MPG of the lesser cars. They failed with the present car this time but next time they will not get a free pass on it. It will be either sell more smaller engines or get less big engines.

More and more the V8 will be limited to higher end models only and more expensive models. You will be able to get one by you will have to pay for the priviledge. Price can and will help limit the sales of these engines. It is one of the only ways MFG will be able to force people into smaller cars and engines. IF they remain cheap people will always go for more cylinders no matter if it is the best engine or not.

I suspect the Buick will show up some where or at least parts of it will. GM seldom throws away good styling. Many never knew the 4th gen styling started out as the still born 1990 Fiero GTP. The design was rehashed to meet the needs of a Front engine car.

Well the ATS is the first Alpha I believe and that is a 2014 based on reports. I think we are looking at at least 2014 for a new 2015 for the new Camaro. One thing to keep in mind is Chevy now being a world brand the new car will have to not only appeal to Americans as a pony car but also to the world with world class performance. The new Mustang is proving to give the Pony car image with BMW like handling and performance. A smaller car will help in world apeal as most people outside the states want a daily driver that is very big and only a 2+2. I think now is the time to evolve the pony car beyond it's retro ideas. These are good cars that need to move forward and advance what they could be. As we know they can not remain what they are 4,000 pound coupes selling 80% V8 engines. The new regs just have no place to keep the status quo. So now is the time to do this and do it right or the Pony car will die. I see a need for the future of a Very good 4 cylinder option with a V6 that has power but better than V8 MPG. The V8 I see still in the picture but how many they sell will be based on the lower cars. If they fail to make the lower car move the V8 will become a very expensive and limited option. There could be a time that the V8 could be a very hard to afford car for most people. While I see a updated 2.0 Turbo as a very good engine in a smaller Camaro the problem will be to sell this to the fan base. Too few really know how good this could be but would never consider it due to the cylinder count. It is just hard to defeat preconceived ideas. It will be intersting to see how GM deals with the changes they have to face. They will have to make some gambles on making the right choice to be where they need to be. The 6th gen is not just another update but a total reform and adjustment for the model. They thought the 70's bumper and emissions laws were tough this is even more difficult.

I think with pending CAFe rules we will see weigh cuts in all engines. Heck they are even making the Ecotec lighter and smaller so the V8 should see similar weight reductions. In the future everything will have to be lighter, smaller or both.

Well I have it on my Series III 3800 SC and my Turbo 2.0 and it works well. The knock sensors kick in and it easily makes 20 HP change in the engine. The bottom line the help it gives marketing to hace the option. Note too the VVT and Direct Injection also pay a roll too. The use of Direct Injection give the engineers more option on controling the point of detination other aspects like temps etc in the cylinder.

The 5th gen at one time had a 70 and a half like roof on the car. This was before they went with the styling they have now. I hope they do a better job on the new car if they go this way than they did on that one. It was not very nice in the photo's that made it out of GM. They made the right choice with what they did. Camino How about they take the drawings of the Buick 2+2 that we posted and make it into a Camaro. It is a good design and if Buick never uses it then make it a Camaro. I wonder how many wrong cover drawings on Car and Driver we will have to see before we learn the truth. LOL! If they do go a little retro I hope it is just that a little with a modern edge. They hit a good balance with the present car. I just hope they do not try to make the show car into the street car. I would like the street car to be made into the show car so it is a little more real world friendly. I like the present car and could live with the issues but many real world buyers reject them. These are sales Chevy needs.

With GM being so dark on new products we will hear a lot of crazy stories before the 6th gen arrives. Right now I was told not to believe much on the Supercharged Camaro as there is a lot of false info on it out righ now. Even to the point some are thinking that it may not even be a Z/28. Also some good info on the restyle of the present inteior. Don't expect much. It will be a light redo as with a new car coming there is no need to spend a ton of money on it. I suspect we will see changes like a Steering wheel and shift knob as they are not real popular. As of now I would not get too wrapped up on the new Camaro yet as We pretty much knew the Alpha was coming and we all already know a 4 cylinder will play a larger roll this time. It has too. I also suspect the V8 will be here but the numbers may be more limited than before. It will either have to have a V6 or have a powerful 4 cylinder with a lot less weight to really make much impact. A V6 is a hard sell as it is in this class but a 4 would really be challange to many traditional buyers. The other intersting part is how will GM play with the styling. Do they abandon the Retro look or do they keep with a Retro/Modern style? Say like a modern 1970 update like the 5th did on the 1969. I know the answers will come but I suspect it will be a while before the truth is learned.

BJ has gotten a little stale on me last year and this year. Don't get me wrong but the economy has hit them to the point they just don't have the quality of cars as they used too. Last year I saw things there you would have never seen in the building before. This year I have not seen much but when a 66 Malibu went for $35K I knew someone had a little much to drink. It was a nice car but not a $35K car and not even a SS. I wish Speed would cover more of the races at Goodwood and show them. That is a trip on my bucket list. I have done many of the other great car things and this is one more I need to do.

It is a step backs vs the Cobalt. But then again GM did not have a good Aveo to catch the MPG people under it. The Cruze now has a Much better car in the Sonic to take the MPG edge. GM could take out all that makes the Cruze quiet and comfortable and it would be just another tin can the others are. I think it is plain to see the Cruze is not targeting the entry level car for the kid that is going to high school or collage. This is a small car for adults. I think they are looking to get owners of larger cars that are not getting anywhere close to 30 MPG into a car that will get better MPG. This is not a hyper mile car and makes no claims to be. It is a well built comfortable small car. One that would appeal to those who hate entry level. I think if GM would define the car better to the public it would be better understood. To many try to compare it to the Cobalt and Focus when it really is a different car. I see the Sonic eating up the entry level and those who more MPG. It is not really that much smaller.

These are pretty much the engine GM has already shown in the Holden Show car and the Leno Camaro. It that what you drew upon for these ideas? I expect most of the Turbo applications GM will have will remain Premium Optional. Marketing likes to keep it that way. One marketing manager told me with Chevy they like to keep the fuel a option as they do not want to scare off some who fear the Premium requred tag. With the electronics of today it is not difficult to do anymore. I have to agree that these are not too far off. With the present turbo being removed from the SRX I suspect this move was made with the intent of the new engines coming in. GM will not let the Ecoboost go on unchallanged.

Hmm the pay offs must have arrived. Just kidding. They are looking at this car for what it is. It is a well built small sedan that is quiet and rides like a more expensive car. That is what Chevy set out to do. It's MPG may not be as high as some but then again they are noisy tin cans that bounce down the road. Chevy never made any claims of hyper mile sedan outside the Eco edition. They never made claims to be the cheapest. Chevy said they wanted to make a car that felt like it was more than you paid. Well that is what they have done. Judged in that contect it is best in class. At least till the Buick arrives. Only the market will tell if this is the kind of car they want in this size. Few have really ever tried to do this and we need to give GM credit for trying not to be Honda or Toyota on this one. This also answers the question on why this was not called a Cobalt. Well it is not a Cobalt that is why.

These engine games are fun and as stated predictions are just that... predictions. With that being said It is hard to predict what we will have by 2015 as engine choices. Even the Push Rod V8 will evolve a lot by 2015 and the engine we have then will differ from the present LS engine as the LS did from the original Small Block. We will see a lot more technology in the next couple years to help with the MPG on all engine. GM has to move forward on these engines as even as good as they are they must get better. With GM sitting tight on info anymore it is hard to really gauge what is really going on. Predictions are getting difficult and GM is getting more and more unpredictable. They will be doing things that we neve saw coming. The one thing I do expect is the ATS will be a car that will be right for once. They will not be hindered by the many issues and lack of funds they had in the past. They will not just have to take just what they can get for once. I hope I am right to expect the unexpected here. I just get the feeling we will see a lot more than just a half pint CTS like we would have gotten 5 years ago. The real thing is this car needs to be right from engine to tires. It must be not only better in perfromance to the 3 series but it much also have the preception as a superior car. GM can not longer just be tought as the alturnative they need to be the publics choice. So no matter what engines they go with they must convice the public not only in performance but image and preception as being better. This is a case not just for the Engineers but also for Marketing.