hyperv6

The 48 Retro styling was never intended for them as it was never sold there as a regular model. I know a few guys there that have picked them up in odd imports or from GI's. Most of them are in Italy, Germany, Sweeden and one in Russia. The owners are all American wannabes or hot rod fans. I did not explain this point because I though most here already understood obvious facts and it did not need stated, but I guess I was wrong. My point was the HHR was not understood in review stories done by Euro writers. That being said if they had wanted to make it a regular import the styling would have been an issues. Now in the case of the Granite it has no Reto look that will puzzle the Euro buyers and could make it an easier sale over there if the idea of ever moving to make it a export or an Opel came up. That was all my point was about. I think most here understood that most there can tell a 37 from a 48 and I gave them credit for it.

I don't see where the bringing up the El Camino was necessary here. El Camino was "struggling" due to being based on a 9 year old design on a 23 year old chassis that was being discontinued. In fact, El Camino sales didn't tank until the latter part of 1987 when the end of the line was obvious and many people didn't even know that it was still being sold... otherwise, '80s El Camino sales range from about 45K to 24K. The '80s numbers aren't far off from the '60s numbers. The biggest dent comes in '82, when the introduction of the S10 steals 15K sales, no other introduction after '82 seems to affect the El Camino sales. When I say El Camino, I am including the GMC Sprint/Caballero version in with the numbers. Oh don't get overly sensitive. The small car based truck were killed off with the new Rangers, S15, S10, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda. It was not just the S10 alone. No sin there just a change in market. I for one would have bought the Camaino if they had not killed it and had to go to a S10. I owned a GMC Sprint SP and I know the numbers. The one I owned was only sold i the several hundred and I wish I still had it today. The one thing we must consider here is the Ganite has a more world appeal in styling. While the Asians are selling boxed world wide the HHR never was understood anywhere but here for the most. I have read the reviews of the HHR by the overseas press and the 1948 Suburban styling is lost on them. They understood the PT old Ford look but the HHR just never hit the mark with most of them because they never understood it. The Granite would not suffer the same retro misunderstanding in other markets.

What, no convertible to round-out your ideal line-up?!? J/K I agree with your point that a panel version for commerical customers is a great idea and the pickup version would be a great addition for the weekend warrior customer - maybe the DIY'er who needs to handle small runs to Home Depot/Lowe's, or the outdoors/sportsperson who needs to haul their kayak or canoe. Having small-medium-large offerings in both SUVs and pickups (Granite-Terrain-Acadia/Yukon and Granite/Canyon/Sierra) will open the window of opportunity for GM to sell GMCs to more customers. The panel is a no bainer as it would be very easy and cheap to make. The HHR has proven that. As much as I love the pick up the reality factor also has to play in here. How much would it cost to make it along with the regular Granite. Can they make it so they can share many of the same parts and keep the cost down? Also can they make the expandable bed work Like shown on the show model? This is important as it would open this up to many more buyers. A bed that is too small will kill it like it did for the Ford Sport Trac. The Sport Trac was a nice vehicle but you had better never cared to carry anything. Also the big question is can they sell it to enough buyers to make it worth the investment. FWD trucks have come with several companies. They all have never lasted. To be fair they were car based and at the time they were out even the El Camino was struggling for sales vs the small pick up trucks. I think with the new times it could work It must be maketed as a truck and being a GMC will be a good start. They need to keep the price inline. It can not creep into the space where the future Caynon will be. The fact that GMC needs smaller vehicles going into the future weighs heavy. This is a step that would really help this. The last thing that can effect this is the unknown factor. GMC may have something else already that may move this direction. They are making a lot of changes and I expect to see them do things that we may not have expected. One other thought, does the Granite get shared with Holden, Opel or even GM of Brazil? It would make a nice export to these counties. It would help spread it out with increased volume and you will get more and better investment in the vehicle if they know they can turn larger numbers.

Come on I know you are smarter than this. I assume you want Ford to ask Model T owners to appraise the new Taurus? You get people who are in the market for a mid size and full size [or what they call full size today] to elaborate on what they want in a car or how GM can make it better. You don't go out and pick a bunch of people living in the past waiting for the second coming of the 1970 LS6. I know several of the Camaro Diciples and they while Camaro fans are also a group that also understands GM wants them to help move the car into the future and make it better. They are not a group that is only willing to say we need to put a ZL1 427 in every Camaro or it is not a real Camaro. Their goal it to keep the theme of the car alive but also advance the car from 40 years in the past. The present Camaro group worked real hard with GM to advance the car in areas that have been difficult to sell the Camaro in before. Some ideas were used and many were not but either way GM is trying to keep a little of the past while moving the car to new markets and buyers that could care less for it. With cars like the Camaro and Vette they will include the enthusiast. But with the Impala and Malibu they can still use present owners and even owners of competing cars to learn what it would take to improve these cars to be what they want or expect. The fact is there are more mid size and full size FWD buyers than there are RWD Malibu enthusiast. I think we all know that learning what the market wants is more important than reliving the past. Those who fail to learn their history are doomed to repeat it, but those who fail to advance and keep up with market demands and wants go out of buisness. Believe it or not 90% of the many many people in the market could care less for RWD in fact most would rather have FWD. Time to lose the fan boy fantasy That everyone wants 600 HP and RWD. Just because we here do the real buyers as a whole could care less for it. The most common 4Dr Chevell Malibu with a 307 was though of nothing more as an appliance back in the 60's. You were not cool or special unless it was a SS and how many of them did they make vs the plain cars? The bottom line is most of todays buyers are not car enthusiast anymore. Many people out there could care less what the car is as long as it is affordablem, reliable and gets them where they are going. The fact is for the most the love affair with the car is pretty much over. You now understand why people can drive standard shift now. They don't care and just because GM makes it does not mean they will buy it. It is not GM's fault for making just regular cars it is the fact that is what most people want.

I have to agree. This is the opposite of what I would want expessed. I think a commercial with someone in a Diesel and not knowing they were even in one would be a better way to go. We here in the mid west have many of thoes Volvos still on the road with the black tailgates. Th problem for the Big Three is the truck engines really do little to help with the car engines. People here do little to connect them and in Fords case with the early Powerstrokes that is a good thing. Dodge would have a hard time relating a Fiat Diesel to a Cat. GM would have a shot if they would intro their engines as a Diesel family and not just as car or truck Diesels. I think also a diesel racing effort somewhere would help as Audi did with R 8 and others racers. These are the cars that woke me to how really good the new engines can be. But for the sake of everyone the old sterotypes need to be left alone. I would bet many after the BMW spot still did not know the BMW was a Diesel unless they were focused on the spot.

Well this was a system that was to have been short term and now is long term. Who knows the next step may be to expand it. Time will tell.

I know that the GM rep, not the spokesmodel, took down my comments, name and address about the Granite at the NYIAS last year. Where they went or what was done with them I don't know (never been contacted), but the rep stated that public approval was high on the Granite from the Detroit, Chicago, and New York auto shows. I know GM really does look at the response to their show cars more now than ever. They do also have a lot of clinics too to try ideas out. The Camaro program got the Discpiles together as a advisor group for the 5 gen Camaro. It went so well that they are now using them on ideas for updates on the present car and the future Alpha Camaro. It pays to say you like something and let them know. While it may not always change things it does help those who are trying to change things for the better with in GM.

Apparently, neither the base or upgraded systems in the Regal have a subwoofer. Kind of like my GTP. They try to fake a sub with the rear speakers. The Monsoon in the GTP is good but for the top line system it is not what it should be. I have had static in the right rear speaker for 3 years and even replaced the amp. I finally got mad and hit the dash to the right of the stero with the heel of my palm and it has not done it since. Go figure. Anyone need a good Amp? Now on my SS the front speakers are fine the rear are hard to hear in the bottom of the doors but the sub fills in great from the rear. I am not going to rattle the neighbors windows but it has good range and does not distort till pushe more than you really need. The rear system is Pioneer supplied and it does a good job for the money. I did get the last year of the six disc changer. I love it as I put MP3 files on the disk and have near 800 songs in my stereo at any time. I could drive from Ohio to Florida and never hear the same song twice. No need to plug in any I pod of my phone. I could if I want as I have the port to do so and that is another 16 gig of Music.

The Dash for sure could be done pretty close. It kind of fits with GM's theme of late of having motor cycle like dash pods like in the Sonic. As for the rest.... The seats look more like something you would make someone ride the lightning in. I think when this car was done they were just tossing ideas and really did not have production in mind. If they do usually GM strikes it close than this. It may really be public feed back may have got this one to move ahead?

A black or metalic gunmetal gray Granite would look great in a suede leather ebony and red interior. This is what I have in my HHR. It makes a cheap interior look better with just color. I just hope to God they don't get any ideas to do anything like that shagg carpet pizza looking thing on the dash of the Nissan Cube.

My guy in the service department said that Hyundais are like the way Chryslers were. Keep em 3-4 years and let them go. Over the last two years he filled me in on may of the issues that have not be made too public. The sub frame rust issues were much worse than many have been lead to believe. The repair was to hit the sub frame with a hammer and break off the rust and then shoot it with a wax compound. Brakes have been sticking in many of the rust belt states. The dealers are lubing the slide points and letting them go again only to return in 15,000 miles. He told me the quality issues pop up and go away. It is like they are consistant on the assembly lines. I have noted rust issues here in Ohio on many. Some of the Santa Fe's here are bleeding rust out of the rear wiper hole down the back gates. Hyundai has improved vastly over the first cars as they were Yugor like in quality. But again to keep prices down I am sure they have taken some short cuts that are now showing up with age. It will bother some and other who trade cars every 5 years will not care. I just don't see a Sonnata being like a Cobalt here in Ohio 10 years and 250,000 miles and still going. GM cars may not be perfect cars but they do run for ever here in the midwest. The import cars just have issues with rust and the damaged roads and just do not hold up as well as they do in SO Cal etc.

I could see them graft a larger rear box to this and make a Transit competitior very easy. I see so many Transits on the road anymore. There is a market for small delivery vehicles and GM really has nothing to offer there right now. The Transit proves that you you don't have to look good and only cost less and get better milage to sell in great number.

Ok we have one year in let now go for 2 years and then 5 years. This is not a game that is going to be won in one years. Good Job GM now keep it up. Lets all hope world matters don't overshadow and kill what GM has started.

Very soon everything will be DI. As for weight everyone in the industry will be working on this. Better MPG may be the goal but the side effects of the Handling and the Braking will be great. Less mass can do things larger more powerful engines can never do. The only real issue is cost. I expect most small future basic sedans will have great handling and braking performance with out being a performance model with the less mass. Let just hope they are more durable than a Lotus.

What else would you use for testing a sub. Sad but True can be very revealing. Pink Floyd also has stuff that is good for clairity.

I went for the Red and Black SS interior in my HHR. I even changed colors of the exterior to get the two-tone color. The Hyundai people I work with and there are many bought because of cost. They said they could buy a Hyundai new cheaper than many other cars used. It made sense to them at the time. Now they have Transmission issues and other nagging not cheap issues with cars with less than 100,000 miles and the dealer gives them the well the warranty does not cover this or that. Unless Hyundai stand solid on their warranties or boost quality up to the point were the cars hold up I think they will only see short term gains. I have had several friends buy used HHR's and Cobalts to replace their Hyundai's. I have another who works in the service department of a Hyundai dealer and bought a Chevy and passed on his Hyundai discount. They all saw issues and said the cars were not worth putting the money into. Brake issues, suspension issues, transmission issues, Body and door issues etc have all come about. At at least the engine has not been a problems. I agree with you Ford and Chevy just need to under price Honda and Toyota and let time takes its told on Hyundai. Hyundai my fix there issues but if they do the price will reflect it. It comes down to the old saying you get what you pay for. You can gift wrap a turd but inter the fancey paper it is still a turd. GM is in this game for the long term and they may gain only half the distance at a time but they keep their ground once it is theirs.

Now when I stay $28,000 that is sticker on a loaded vehicle. In reality buyers would pay under that. My HHR stickered over $28K but I paid much much less than that. I too agree GM needs to focus on getting the price of cars to the point more people can afford them. Hyundai has done well to keep prices in line with attractive options in their cars. But the back lash has been many find their Hyundai's not of the Honda like quality as they age. I have had several co workers who abandon their Hyundai's when they found large dollar items in need of repair that the dealers just gave them a run around over. I think many of the new converts to Hyundai will find this out if they keep a car 5 years or more. GM has tried to offer smaller cars with more features standard. They now offering smaller cars in the quality that no one has in the past. When was the last time you heard of a small car being as quiet and rode as well as the Cruze? I think GM is trying this to see if they can move the market down and win buyers. Will it work? I can not say. That is why I think the Granite needs to be priced about where the HHR is. Many have been sold as they are a good value no matter what model you get. If only the HHR had a more modern GM interior with better materials would it have been better. It looks fine just too much plastic.

I suspect they will price this on the high end of the Kia and Scion. It will have more features and be a little larger too. The Kia is only about 2/3's the size of the Granite too so that will account for a higher price. The Terrain starts at $24K but most are sold at $29K or more. Many are priced near $35K Stickers one AWD is added and a V6. I see the Granite overlaping the low end of the Terrain but not going anywhere as high. I also do not see AWD being any part of this as it is available on the Terrain. Also the Terrain is more a crossover and the Granite is in the new class FWD Box vehicles that have been popular. I really see the Granite and the Terrain appealing to two very different groups. Just the ride height alone would appeal to different buyers. The Granite is in a sub set of vehicles much like the HHR is. Not really a SUV but not really a car. Polarizing styling that will be either love or hated but for sure special and different. I don't see GM keeping the price too low but they can not get too crazy either. I do see them offering options and standard features the others nerver had. The HHR for one sold so well as it was a hell of a deal. You could buy them cheap and they got good MPG and were pretty reliable. This is a combo that really sells with the public. I would expect a $17,999 - $28,999 range with some really nice options.

Is that why they only offered it in the base model and killed it in 07? Haldex is a very good system but anyone who wants it needs to look at the added cost. It is one of the best AWD systems out but it is not cheap. GMC needs to price this vehicle at $30K and under. We have people here who complain about a $24K Cruze? Well this is nothing but a Cruze with a box body. GMC also needs to price this under the Terrain. This is going to go up against tyhe Scion and Soul so it has to keep somewhat in the same price range. I love this little car but once I get over $30K there are many more cars I like better that would take me away from this. As For AWD I understand it in a WRX performance kind of way. But as in for a car like this it is a little over kill.

Maybe Buick still thinks most of their buyers are listening to Benny Goodman. We could send them a Metallica MP 3 disc to Flint. I have always found GM's sound systems not being consistant from model to model. They have some cheaper systems like the Pioneer sub in my HHR that for the money over achieves. Then the Monsoon in my GTP is the best they offered. It is good but not as good as the HHR system. With GM just because you spend a lot of money on the sound system does not mean it is the best GM offeres.

The Hinge on my Sonoma was a advanced articulated hinge. There was a lot of engineering that went into it but even with that it still has no provision to deal with later issues. Most all hinges fail because no one lubs them. The fact is most people don't engine oil and tire pressure either. My comment was only the hope and expectation they do get it right. I know the new trucks are better but that dose not preclude possible issues if they mess up. Not that GM has messed up before. I also wonder how people will like the rear door. I know it gives the advantage of a larger opening for larger items which is good. But on the other hand the two doors open at once make it a dance for passengers to get in and out. Does the good out weight the bad? The rear door would swallow anything large anyway so is there really a need for the side to be that open. Also as reg pointed out will it be independent. If it is not independent I see that being an issues with buyers as this is the kind of vehicle that would carry more people than a Extended Cab truck would. I like you expect they will get it right but untill it is in the field we will never know. I just hope they do because I like the vehicle.

You need a new Florist.

Yes they would have to be independent or they will be a pain. Few people will want to open the front door in the rain to let the kids our of the back door. Not sure on the AWD. Some HHR people say they want AWD and when asked if they would pay $33,000 for say a SS AWD few will take it. There is really not need for AWD in this kind of vehicle. It is light, small, on road and I hope inexpensive and not really in need of AWD. My HHR plows through snow now pushing it on the front nose when it is over 5". I have yet to have a need for anything more than FWD with the electronic aids. I would rather see them add AWD to other cars GM has that really could use it like a GS or other real peformance or off road vehicle. The HHR people are polarized on this. They either love it or hate it but not much in bettween. I think more would like it once they see it in person. Many think this is Aveo size and don't understand it is larger than they think. I do see this attracting many non GM buyer who are replacing Scion's and Elements. 3rd row here in North America is not an issue. In Europe it might be a factor. I see leg room not being an issue as this is not that small of a vehicle.

It's these typical Balth statments that gives me pause! "Expreience is a teacher and it is a hell of a way to learn". Well having first hand account of 3rd door hinge sag on my 1997 Sonoma should count for something. My Sonoma got lose and needed some work to get it so it was tight and did not rattle and hit the cab frame. I seldom used the third door so it was not from over use or abuse. There was no adjustments on the hinges that made it difficult to fix. The dealer had to hard plastic wrap to cover over the lower latch to raise the door up to get it in line. It was that or cut the door off and reweld it on which I did not want to see done. Note the dealer did the work so it was under the 3 year warranty when this started. I had the top of the door coming in contact with the top of the truck and taking the paint off the cab and the door where they would hit. Mine was not the only one to do this. Another factor was the Sonoma was not a really ridged truck. the frame and cab would also flex with the ZQ8 suspension. It had a lot of wiggle in the frame. GM has had a long history of poor door hinges on large doors from the Gand Prix's, Monte Carlo's, Camaro's Trans Ams, Eldorado's, Toranodo's, vans and Riv's. I am sure everyone here has lifted and pushed shut a F or G body door to get it to close fully. There are many mechanics who have made a lot of money on hing repair on many GM cars over the years. The dealers still sell a lot of pin bushing yet today for 4th gem F bodys. There have also been many a owners who put a jack under the door and bent the hinges up till it lined up again because they don't want to spend the money to fix them right. I agree the full size trucks today have done pretty well and I only hope and expect these will follow suit with the Granite.

The outside is do able for the most. The rear hing doors has been solved. I expect a little smaller wheel and tire combo like a 19" and different seats. the inside is not even close. No AWD as no one would pay the price it would take nor would they like the added weight. The bumpers could be tweeksed easy. I see a manual 6 speed in this one easy. They have it already and it would be an easy install for this. Some how even as hard as it may be to do I get the feeling this will not have a b pillar. With the size of these doors the rear hing with a B pillar is pretty useless. The whole point was to give a large opening. With a B pillar why bother just make a normal front hing and open the door out to a 90 degree. If they can do it on a truck they can do it here. I just hope they get it so they hold up long term.