hyperv6

The bottom line come down to the fact that DOHC is being done with the intent on higher emission levels. They can get better burn and cleaner engines with them. It will be interesting to see what they can do with the DI on the Chevy V8. To this point VVT is something that has been used not only improve performance but also improve the emissions on the engine. It for the most tunes the car in ways you could not do otherwise. Also with two cams per head they can work with the extra valves for more control of what the engine is doing. Chrysler has the Cam in Cam deal but it is not common. Word is the new Chevy will have some form of this. As things get tought to meet performance levels and most companies are investing for the future to meet what is expected to happen. The other reason right or not is marketing. People today informed or not like these engines and want these engines. Technology sells today and will sell even more in the future. The youth of today are very tech driven. But no matter what they are here to stay. Companies see enough benefits to spend the kind of money needed to make these. They also are not having issues with fitting them underhoods or making a profit by installing them. For the most many are making more money with them than without as people want them. If they are willing to pay more profits are there for the taking. But in the eyes of the engineers they are looking and emissions and control of the engine. Cam phasing is being used to many things today. I can watch on my scan meter on my 2.0 and see how they have thing phased and what they are doing. It is kind of like Direct Injection on the new engines. Carbs are cheap and work but you have much more control. DI is more expensive and more complicated with a high pressure pump that is cam driven and fuel pressure that are off the chart. My fuel presusre guage reads in thousands not hundreds of pounds and they have to use better and more expensive lines and injectors. But they get more performance and cleaner engines with it.

Answer this question first. If all you claim is really true then why do so many great MFG's and most of the top engineers all disagree? While you make a good argument I think I will have to side with where they are going under the conditions they have to face in the future. Keep in mind you appear to be behind too on you precepsion of a DOHC engine. When you voice concern over low end torque it sends a signal you have not kept up with what really is going on with the engine today. That kind of concern is no longer in play as is many other issues. Like price Ford seems to know how to make a low cost DOHC and still show profits. Also they are giving what people seek. Wise or not it is bet to serve the customer what he wants or they will find it else where. Times and buyers are changing. Much of the same arguments were made when companies went from valve in block to in head. Many Flat Head Ford guys used a similar arguemt.

Best to look at the 458 Italia and Mclaren MP4 as better modern examples. The F40 while leading edges back 25 years ago still had many of the issues the older turbo cars had. The fact is with both engines available it is a win win. Let me add a third win if they could share with Cadillac. The Pushrod is like NASCAR a good and entertaining racing series but still people world wide love F1 for the techinical aspect. It makes neither wrong or bad just different and that is why people support both. Some people are happy with Checkers and some like Chess, people like choice. Most MFG have figured out how to build these engines cost wise I am sure GM will soon figure it out too.

It is a shame how so many engineers and companies are spending Billions on these engines. Too bad these highly trained engineers don't have your facts it would save them all this money. Funny too how many companies leaders have approved business cases on how many DOHC engines. They too must have missed the facts to. I get the feeling they know something you may have missed somewhere?

Ok let get this out first I am not a pushrod hater. I like and have built pushrod engines for years. But I also appreciate the new engines and what all they can do now that the electronics and technology has given them performance and torque at the low end. The fact is in the future engines will have to get smaller and there is no choice on this. The goverment is pushing for 60 MPG and while they may not get there next week they will get there. The Vette team needs to look ahead and try to bring in this new technology as the engines get smaller in displacment they will have to make up the performance with Turbo's and better breathing. As for size and weight that is not a great issue. All the other great sports cars can fit them in and the weight is lost else where. We already know they want to cut the weight in the C7 and even more in the C8. As in cost yes they do cost more and there is no way around it. But that is just going to be the cost of doing business in the Future. The fact is you can toss all the numbers out you like but the DOHC cam is much more lower emissions too. That is what got all this rush to DOHC started in the first place. Emissions are tough everywhere different but tough. They will only get tougher as time goes on. GM stated that they do not want to do a hybrid Vette. To their credit they are looking for ways to meet the future demands to keep it a full true gas powered sports car. As for sales Yes they are doing ok right now but never sit back and just let growth get away. Those sales and younger buyers need to be brought in all the time. Otherwise the Vette could become the new Le Sabre. The youth market is not in love with the Chevy V8 like they used to be. In the past it was the only thing to have and today it is being passed over for many other engines with more cams and often less cylinders. Often these guys are paying twice as much to build these engines and do not care. I see it daily with the sales where I work. We used to be just Chevy, Ford and Dodge V8's and today the the Pushrod is king but not like it used to be. I thing the entire market has shown how to go. If Pushrods were the answer for the future they all would have one in production. Might note Chrysler and GM are the ones with pushrods, might also note they are also the two who were cash strapped and got bailed out too. They even had to kill the N star update for lack of funds. So to say the Pushrod is not a good engine is short sighted as it is still viable and the DI engine will help it at least another 10 years. But to take a look at a DOHC will leave them out to dry later when the stricter regs come in and also as the youth market gets to the point they want higher tech Vettes. GM needs a now as it will have to have it sooner or later. Better to get a start on it now while the pushrod engine is viable and get it right when they will need it. IF there is anything to this whole deal the Vette team has standards and if the DOHC does not meet them they will not do it. I expect the new engine if done would be as good or better than the present engine. If not we will not see it anyways. As long as you have a pushrod engine this option for a DOHC is a no brainer and no risk. This is the kind of plan that should keep all happy. Those who what pushrods will have it and the DOHC will have a chance to sell itself. If it is not as good or better it would not make it anyways. SO lets just look forward to the DI pushrod and see if they bait the hook on the DOHC and see what they catch. I think if you look at the engines and names of the companies with great DOHC engines GM should do well. They can if funded well make a engine with great power and low torque with little to no lag.

My first thoughts were of Europe. This is just the kind of engine they love. While the Push Rod Vette has its fans in Europe it still has never sold as well as it could or should. To many over there it is still the plastic car made by fat men in Kentucky. They like their F1 and High Tech Engines. Even in this country more and more of the younger generations grew up with higher tech engines. Most were smaller but that is what they are interested in. I deal with this at work and know there are a lot of people out there that feel the same about push rods as Camino feels about DOHC. The Auto market has always been about adapt or die to what the market wants. That is part of what got GM in trouble as they tried to force what they wanted at times and not give what the customers wanted. I see no issue on offering both engines and give all buyers what they want. Some act as if they do a DOHC that it is a threat to the Pushrod? I don't see that as it will be around in DI form for forseen future. Either way if there is a chance to offer an option on the Vetter of this engine and also offer it thorugh Cadillac it will only help sales and makreting with the younger buyers and Europe. No matter number anyone can post and any claims of no need of DOHC these new engine are very able and are part of what will keep performance alive in the future. The new Mclaren M838T is putting out 600 HP with 80% of the torque available at 2,000 RPM with only 3.8 liters. It is enough to to give 0-60 times under 3 seconds and 0-124 in under 10 seconds. The Mclaren weighs in at 2866 pounds not alot less than the Vette and I would also expect the C7 and C8 to shed some pound too. The next two C 7-8 will only be better than what we have now. If they were killing the Pushrod I could understand the crys but they saying here if true they both will be around. You would have your engine and others will have theirs what could be better? We will get a better interior no matter the engine so that excuse is out.

Misinformed buyers =$$$$$ If done as stated where is the down side. If they would offer both engines who loses? Let the market decide what they want. If GM can offer an engine like this and pick up buyers who would not buy a pushrod engine I see it only as a positive. GM has done well with the LS but lets face it there are many good reasons most others no longer make them other wise they would be more common outside pickup trucks. At this point before I can condem any such plan if one were to happen I would have to see what they would build. To condem the unknow is short sighted. Just like many did with the Malibu and other cars that are ok once you see them. Right now I see this as a positive and will neither fully endorse or condem this idea till we know more about it if it even happens at all. Even if GM did this I could see them sharing this with someone like Lotus etc. Infact someone like Lotus may be involved in the development like they were on the Ecotec. Either way GM needs to move forward and give the market want it wants. Most sports cars today are DOHC and that is what many buyer expect. If you keep pandering to the same crowd you cars will end up like Buick did with the old people image. If GM had moved Buick forward a long time ago they would not have had to rebuild their image. Of late GM has had few disapointments and I am sure if they could not do this engine at the right price and with as good or better performance they would not do this. The Vette team has done well and it is time to just let them do what they do best and see what they really offer. They have done a lot with so little for so long the new money being invested may make things interesting in many areas on the future models. One thing is for sure the changes will not stop at the loss of the pop up headlamp. Tradtions are fine to a point but even the best cars have to move forward.

Well if it is as good or better than my 2.0 Turbo you have no worries. 315 FT-LB from something like 2300-5100 RPM and 340 FT-LB in the Solstice. I would expect the V8 would be even greater torque and just as flat. Too many just don't understand most of todays Turbo DOHC engines have very flat torque curves with the advanced VVT and Scrolled turbos. I never has a V8 with as flat of a curve. Here is the stock Eco Turbo curve. The upgrade is just the same just with more torque. I am thinking this engine if proven true would provide Cadillac with just what they need. Technology is half the marketing in the performance Luxury market.

You may be onto something.

That is what the claim is. Well just over 3.0 liters is the claim. Quote ":Just how small, exactly? TDB reports that the next Corvette's European-style V8 could measure in at just over 3.0 liters, using an overhead-cam setup and dry sump oil system. With the aid of turbocharging, unnamed GM sources expect that this engine will deliver "in excess of 400 horsepower," or about 125 hp per liter. What's more, the smaller V8 could be of the extremely high-revving nature, with TDB citing that engine revs could handle up to 10,000 RPM." I know there has been a lot going on we have little to no clue on and this could be one of the things they have been working on. GM is moving forward into the future now with the better cash flow and they no longer have to continue to rehash the same things over and over and over. I expect we will see a lot of suprises in the next 5-10 years. I find it interesting on how with this story on how they will keep the traditional buyers happy and go after the high tech crowd at the same time. Not everyone like Chocolate some want Raspberry, So GM is going to give them some? I just know if there is anything to this GM will not just use this engine in one car unless they buy it from someone else and I really don't see them doing that. With the Viper coming with help from Ferrari they need to step up their game some if they want to remain king of the American hill. One would have to assume the same engine would be a nice fit for a CTS or ATSv.

Hmmmm? I wonder if there is really anything to this. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/25/next-chevy-corvette-to-offer-small-displacement-turbo-v8/ A 3.0 TT DOHC V8 for the Vette. Hmmmm I am sure Cadillac would find a suited place for this engine too. Now before anyone here starts spouting numbers on an engine we have not even confirmed let alone know what I will have lets just see what pans out. The high tech aspect would play well with the Euro buyers. Marketing is 50% of the luxury market. It is not really how fast they will drive it but the number and technology they show off. Hell Benz puts speed limiters on their most of their cars and no one really cares. Note this engine as discribed here is similar to the new Mclaren. It is one sweet engine and somthing GM could do if funded right. Sharing of Cadillac and Vette is very acceptable in my view. Besides with the turbo Cadillac can tune to their own needs very easy. Also to consider that Chevy is going back to Indy. A smaller DOHC Turbo would play into the marketing for the Vette. Also Pratt and Miller are looking at doing a Daytona protype racer just waiting for a better engine.

I do like both designs in this thread (I think they are different). I like the B pillar door handle. As for platform I think gm has everything they need in EPII (112 in wb) for a grand Touring 2+2 coupe, and convert. Riviera and Velite. They have the Platform, powertrain (w/Haldex awd),Global brand and design talent to make it happen. I rally think they are the same. The photos were released at the same time and stated as being the same car. Keep in mind these are computer generated images of the same car from different angles. Often they will appear different from different perspectives. At least GM claimed and labeled them as the same car so take it for that.

Yes there was several angles of the Buick 2+2 Coupe done by the UK GM Design Lab. That is all I ever heard it called. Who knows what the Alpha may bring in the future. The underpinnings of the Camaro if small enough could provide a place for a nice coupe like this. I would expect a little less sport car and a little more sport coupe. Something that would appeal to a larger market. Even in FWD this would make a statment in styling.

There is little reason they it could not be done with todays cars. With the new electronics tuning is an easy thing to do today. Let Cadillac lead the way and get the newest and best first and as they move up give the old engines still relevent engines to Chevy. Same with the Transmissions. On the Turbo engines adding power is very easy and the premium fuel required would not scare of Cadillac buyers. But they should dress the engines for each division. The plastic covers are ok for Chevy but GM should do better with Buick and Cadillac. Details like this do not go unnoticed. Some of the best cars in the world spend time on how the engine is presented. Some do such a good job they put a window over it like Ferrari. This is where Gm really went wrong on the F body etc. GM should have dressed the LS and LT engines to make them different. Also they should have given Pontiac a little more HP. While 10-20 HP may not seem like much it would have given people a better reason to buy a Pontiac other than different sheetmetal. It also would have given brag rights. Pontiac could and should have gotten better every thing like headlights etc. Today GM needs to share but they also can afford to do some things to make people want the next car up. Every Chevy Driver should wish and hope for a Buick some day and every Buick owner should wish for a Cadillac someday. In the end all other make owers should want to buy GM because of the precieved quality, options and styling along with price. Here is something GM as a whole needs to live by. "That which is good or great makes itself known, no matterhow loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to lives -lives." the Penalty of Leadership. Cadillac Motor Company Advertisment, 1915 This was true back then and can again be true for GM again. GM and the divisions it has can again be all they can be if they do what needs to be done. They need to target the other companys and keep away from the inhouse rivalry that has plauged them for years. While Cadillac may not compete head to head with Benz next year or the year after there is no reason why they can't work to that goal. Just building a flagship will not do it but building a strong division a model at a time can do it. Lexus was not taken seriously at first but today they are respected. The Alpha can too be a building block to the future. It may not dominate the 3 series but it can continue to chip away as the CTS has. Cadillac moving to the lead will take some time but it is do able. If it was not do able then they may as well shut the doors. The big thing with Caddy is if you pay more you should get more. In fact you should get the best GM has and it should never be directly shared intact with a Chevy. You can share the basic platforms and engines but give the buyer something that he can only get in a Cadillac.

Sharing is a fact of life and it is not going away as it is the only way they can the number of Cadillacs they do without jacking the price to a level no one would pay. But with that said I would like to see Cadillac if they have to use the Chevy V8 do things to it that Chevy does not get. While it may share the engines and platform they could still afford to put a little more effort into these vehicles to make them somthing more than just another Chevy platform or powertrain. Daimler did this with the older Benz items and used them at Chrysler. Few people ever realized how much old Benz parts were in their new RWD cars. I would love to see a LSC engine. A direct injected engine based on the LS with Cadillac specific tuning. They could do their own intakes and own tuning to the point they could get more HP than other applications or more smoothness etc. GM has done this in the past. My Fiero has a 2.8 Chevy in it but it came with it's own fuel system, intake, exhaust, GM performance cam and larger valve heads. Only a few parts were shared witht he X-11 version. Also they could dress the engines in their own trim vs just sticking a cheap plastic cover over it. Make this something you would want to show to your friends and open the hood. People see my Fiero V6 think I dressed it up and are shocked it came this way with red powder coat and generous aluminum parts and stainless fasteners. As for the platforms I do not see an issue here as much as they really do change these platforms so much few know what is shared. Even the 70's Seville to this day few knew it was really sharing Nova and Camaro parts under it. Preception is the name of the game. If it looks expensive or different it has to be better in the eyes of the public. GM has no issues with tuning and performance in all areas as of now. Most of the issiues are mostly preception.

Hmmm! A GNX wagon? Too bad GM has not found a way to bring the OPC good intact to Buick at a resonable cost. I think these cars could do well if they could keep the priced in the Market. OPC's are not cheap in Europe and I don't see many flocking to a Buick in this price range yet. But it would be cool if we did get them here at some point. Buicks are gaining in popularity and given time and some new models I think there may be a time cars like this could make it here. Leave the damn wood off!

Not that small. I was told to expect something just a little smaller than today but it will still have a long wheel base. I was told to expect something along the lines of the Mustang in body lenght and width. Packaging a Camaro into a Cobalt size would prove to be difficult. But then again there is little info on on the Alpha and even less that is accurate do it is a little early for the sky to fall. Like I have stated the known points of info from GM are pretty dry. PCS is not the only one not talking or giving the GMish criptic clues. They have gone dark and left us with a lot of people speculating on things with little info or no idea. It is wiser to wait and see what real info comes in the future before this gets too far. I am sure there are going to be things some of us hate but there will be more that we will love. That is just how it works.

The fact GM will have two different size RWD platforms will help the need to stretch either platform to extremes. Where as the Zeta tried to be big and small now the Alpha will cover the low end. Size alone should keep the Alpha under the Zeta weight in RWD form. Now when you add AWD etc it has to add mass and there is little you can do when you add more parts. The fact remains the more you stretch a platform the more compromised it becomes. With he cars we know so far for the Alpha it is not being over used too much. If anything the Camaro will benefit from the investment from Cadillac as it will get more funding that Chevy can share to make it a better Camaro. As of now the only people who really know anything are not talking. Even criptic hints are few as since the Chapter 11 things have gone dark at GM. It is like Area 51 anymore. Much of the lose talk on other models have been just that. Even the few people I know are not saying as much if anything anymore. So to get to freaked out now on the Alpha is a little premature. Once we get some real info and facts lets not get to worked up here. Lets face it most of what GM has done may have not all been home runs [no one hit all home runs] but they are now building some of the best cars they ever have and I expect it to improve now with enough money to do the new models right. When the Alpha comes out I suspect few here will be disapointed. This is kind of like the new Malibu as many freaked out at the early drawings and half finished interior shots and now it looks as if they will have a very good car for the market slot.

What they fail to say is that the platform will be able to support models from 3400-4000 pounds. I am sure a CTSv V8 or TT V6 with AWD in the longest and widest wheel base may be 4000 pounds. That does not mean the Camaro or ATS and other models will be that heavy. Also when you share a platform there will be comprimises that will add to weight or the ability to do some things that a single model platform can do. When you gain flexibility you have to comprimise in some areas. I would not hit the panic button yet on this deal. While when it comes out I am sure many will say it could or should be lighter but they would still say that at 3100 pounds too. Lets just see what we really get.

I am a long time Camino fan but never really paid much attention to the production numbers. I looked them up and the old car did pretty well most years. It looks as if there was a strong market for the car most years accept for when it tapered off into the 80's were it still did ok till the last two years. I would think and hope there is still a market there yet. But the auto market has shifted greatly as has the truck market. Will people still be there to eat up the kind of numbers GM wants to sell. Also can they price it well enough to attract buyers. Two seater cars have a limited market and I don't Think Holden offers a Bench? After the sales are done with the retro buyers who want to relive the past will there be enough new buyers willing to forgo a full size truck for one of these? I hope there is but at least there is little risk for GM if they did do this. Lets face it the work was already done for Pontiac and even if they only sell 10K units the Holden market will eat up all the rest. Check out the numbers I would think this car is worth the risk and even if it was only around 4-5 years it would at least pay back some of the investment they spent on the G8 ST. http://www.chevelles.com/elcamino/ec_total.htm

Did you see a picture? I hope it wasn't something like this: No picture, but I suspect that it looked quite alot like that. Hell just take the GMC off and one could just slap on the cheap gold bow tie I pulled off my HHR and replaced with a billet aluminum one. I never understood the cheap gold emblem that gets crappy anyways. That is all GM would have done anyway. Maybe GM should just sell it with the two emblems and who ever buys it can just slap the one on they want. If I ever got one I would find a Holden Lion for mine. I have a guy local here with a GTO converted to a Holden less the left hand steering. It is kind of cool.

I see this not as a vehicle that will make or break GM either way. I do see it as a car that could help fill out a line up with some holes in it till they get new product out to help the remaining divions. While it may not be a home run I feel if they can do a SSR they could do a limited run of these for a couple years at the least. The work was done for Pontiac so there would be little investment there. The only real issues are how many do they need to in and make a profit. The exchange rate and how much they need to sell it for here. But again there is a lot more to this than we ever consider here. Our jobs are not on the line if we make a wrong call.

From a product stand point the vehicle would be a good niche vehicle for GMC in a low volume and higher price range. GMC is now becoming the upscale truck specialty division and it need new and different products like the Granite and others to set itself appart if it is to remain relivent. I see pricing this as a Chevy might be difficult as this is not going to be a cheap car even if it is a V6. Even as a Pontiac I never expected it to really be optioned as most people would want for anything under $30K and closer to $35K or more. Not really a good Chevy price. On the other hand from a marketing stand point it would be so much better as a know name from a know division. If it is not a El Camino people will all wonder why. Too few people knew there was even a Sprint even back in the 70's let alone today. God knows I had to explain so many times why I had GMC emblems on my El Camino SS years ago. As for the any idea of both a Chevy and GMC version that is the worst idea. Either way has positives and negitives. If I had to choose I would take the maketing side and go Chevy with it. But that is just my take as it is a tough choice either way if they so choose to bring it in. My only hope is GM really has some kind of plan here as they do not need to make a lot of noise on this and then not come through again. If they are going to talk about it then do it and if not shut the hell up and let it go. Camino is not the only fan that is getting tired of the tease. It is time for GM to put up or shut up on the Ute idea.

I have to agree on the CTS. It is not the roomiest interior for the size car it is. I was in the back seat of a CTSv wagon and had little knee room. Infact I have more knee room in my Malibu.

Yes they look to be in that mode where they get the excitment coming and stimulate public demand and then tell everyone well gee since you want one we will bring it back. Just my guess would say the Camino plan is already in place and just ready to be put into action at a already determind time. The only thing that could stop are things like a unforseen world conflict, collapes of the economy, a major GM leader making a fast exit and a new one coming in that hates the idea. You always have that intangible that could happen. I expect to see this late 2013 as a 2014 would be my guess. We may see a show car nest year and or prototype spy shots in MI in about 10 months to a year. Just a guess on the time but I see this car coming and not all that far off.