hyperv6

I know this is hard to beleive but most buyers today don't want RWD or even a V8. The Regal is a sporting car for them and it will sell as witnessed by the large number of them on the roads here at least in the midwest. when 80% of the market is already in FWD sedans it shows where the market is. Even when offered RWD and V8's that get mythical levels of MPG most buyers pass. The market has changed. 0-150,000 sales mean more than a second on 0-60 MPH. Like I have been told here before it is about results but to get to the point it is about sales. The Regal is not the second coming of BMW as it is more a sporting Malibu. GM has had to work with what they had and the car has sold well in Europe and China. Many here will find it to their needs too. It is a Camry with some personality. GM is not just getting to new product that was developed post chapter 11. I expect weights to start to decline with the use of new materials but the fact is they are not here yet. GMh and all other MFG's have to keep their 5 star crash ratings in the mean time and that means weight. The Regal is not where GM is going just a Vehicle to buy time and help keep them viable till they get to the product they want. Not not all of their new cars are going to BMW killers either. In the long or short of it even while this is not a car for most people here it is a car the market has taken too and should do well in sales. The next version of this is the one to expect greater change as in less weight. If they fail then that will be a problems as the rest of the market is moving this direction too.

I saw the story on this car a while back and liked the work that went into it. Aero packages have won a lot of races and save lives by making cars much more stable. Trust me I know what a 65 GTO is like at 140 MPH plus in a sweep curve. When the wheel is to the right and the car is still going straight you start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But I agree it also hurts styling when you have a weak styling department. I think some of GM's cars today have help break some of this trend like the CTS v and Camaro. In racing while aero helps win races it also runs up the cost and has killed some series. But back the the GS. I have several books on these cars and have followed there history. There have been better race cars but there have been few with better stories. Each GS has a very interesting story and each had seen some of the best drivers in the world behind the wheel of each. The fact the 5 that raced are still with us is amazing. This site has some neat info and stories on Vettes. http://corvette-racing.tripod.com/ When I was a kid I usd to make my Dad take me to every race car appearance in town. Living in Akron the tire companies would always have something around. I have sat in everything from the Sprit of America jet car to Garlits Swamp Rat. Once day at a Marathon station near our house the Greenwood BFG Corvette was there in all it's Sebring glory. We went over and I recall the station owner that my dad knew putting me in the car. I still remember rowing the gears in that car. Sweet memories. I suspect with what we have seen with the new Sting Ray Wellborn is letting us know it may still be aero but styling will not be forgotten. I have seen this car in person and photos do not show it for what it really is. If they use it as a guide for the C7 we should have a good car to carry the name on. I saw a Mongoose GS tonight on the road. It was a Penske look alike with yellow 17 inch Hildebrand wheels on it. It has the vintage look with todays technology. The Sunoco colors suit it well.

Even more than the price that GM would have charged. Like everything else at GM this is only the begining and not the end. I would just keep your eyes open and just see what all is coming. GM is not telegraphing its moves 5 years out anymore. In most cases we know little about what is more than a year out anymore. Just look at those here and elsewhere that use to hint and leak GM news that no longer speak openly even with strong hints. I expect a lot of suprises coming. I too wish the OPC would have made it intact but even in Europe it is expensive let alone what it would have been here. It may have been a tough sale here as once you get to that level people have a lot of very good choices. Yes, but didn't GM say in the past that the Regal (this generation, at least) would only come equipped with four-pots? That's a little worry I have to consider. True, I'd love to see the 325hp AWD come over as a new GSX/Grand Nat/GNX, but I fear it not happening. I also have to wonder how much more they can do to this car/engine to make it even better/sportier/whatever This engine is not even close to what can or could be done. It is just a matter of what GM whats to do with it. THe LNF in stock form can do 400 HP with no upgraded parts. Even then only the pistons and Valves are recomended for upgrade. GM is walking a line for performance and MPG. I would not be suprised to see the Eco Turbo breaking the 300 HP barrier soon. Torque with the GM upgrade was only limited by the driveline. They the Solstice 6 sp was sitting at 340 FT LBS with the full 5 year 100.000 mile factory warranty in place. I suspect this car will not last long and will get a 2.0 version in the near future. This one will not sit still 8 years like many past models. Camino you are not the target buyer here and it should not appeal to you. Again you have to look big picture as many here are no longer the average car buyer anylonger. Todays buyers are changing for better or worse to cars many of us here have no use for. Yes they will still offer us something but not in the numbers we used to get. It is like everything else time and markets change and that is why they have oldies stations on the radio. This is a Camry with some personality. This car is to be a good sporting car to drive at a lower price than most rwd sports sedans. GM at this point as to work with what they have and could not do a clean sheet of paper car in only 2.5 years. This car will spark interest as it really is a good car but it is not the home run we are looking for. It is a good solid double and there meat of the batting order is still to come up. I expect more power in the furure as well as weight reduction in the next version. I would not be suprised to see it alittle over 3300 pounds. The use of lighter and stronger steel is coming to the market with most companies. It is more expensive but will shed weight keep the 5 star ratings in place and will be cheaper than carbon fiber. Lighter cars will cost more but do more for performance than anything else. Handling and braking will also improve not just 0-60 and MPG.

The Cobalt has too many square hard lines. It has that boxy effect of the Older FWD Malibu. It make it look like a old Asian car. We did get the better sporty looking of the two.

Sorry but this car no matter how good looking it is will always be the also run. If the GM engineers had the chance they would have had a small nose spoiler at some point and beaten Shelby. Winning is also as a thing of beauty. Imagine a GS that not only looked good but handled well. Looking good and winning is what beauty we did miss out on. Like you said elsewhere that results matter. I just don't think these cars ever got to show what all they could do and it is a part of history you can never change. I used to sit in school drawing the 003 coupe from a picture in a book I had. Trust me I know the lines and the history of these cars well. Note not all aero is ugly. The Chaparral 2E is still considerd my many a work of art and function. There again too bad Jim Hall had to mess with so many new technologies at once. Leading aero, automatic trannies, prototype engines etc lead to a lot of failures.

The CTS starts where the GS will leave off. This is just one of many models that made the OPC not a good idea here. The OPC is expensive in Europe alone and would have been as much or more here. At that price there are a lot of good choices to pick from makeing the Buick a diffcult sale. The GS and Regal are still old GM yet. I expect we will get some good suprises in the future. It is too soon to expect them yet. Lets face it at least GM had the Euro car of the year here for Buick vs a restyled Sebring as a 200.

It is a show case of the race think in the early 60's not just Zora. Back then light weight ruled with the GS, Cobra, Birdcage and even the Aluminumed bodied factory cars. They all knew lighter was faster. The GS also showcases the lack of understanding with aero effects. Remember this is the car that at speed could not keep the front tires in contact with the pavment and had trouble turning at high speed. It was not just GM either. The Paul Van Valkenburgh book Cheverolet Racing? is a must read for any GM fan to really understand all that was learned out the back door even when GM was Ehh Not racing. I at times think that the things they learned starting with the GS led to the many things they learned and applied to Jim Halls cars. Even Donohues Book Unfair Advantage shows how crude and difficult sorting cars out back then really was. GM's test truck helped a lot but doing so out the back door made it difficult. Imagine if they went to it with support like HF II gave Ford. It is sad that it was confirmed not long ago that a sixth GS was confimed burned on the Warren proving grounds. Sad it was lost. Locally here we have Mongoose Motorsports that produce repo's of the GS and Corvette GTP. We see a lot of these running around here. I would love to have one of these over the many Cobra repos cars.

Even more than the price that GM would have charged. Like everything else at GM this is only the begining and not the end. I would just keep your eyes open and just see what all is coming. GM is not telegraphing its moves 5 years out anymore. In most cases we know little about what is more than a year out anymore. Just look at those here and elsewhere that use to hint and leak GM news that no longer speak openly even with strong hints. I expect a lot of suprises coming. I too wish the OPC would have made it intact but even in Europe it is expensive let alone what it would have been here. It may have been a tough sale here as once you get to that level people have a lot of very good choices.

Did the driver intend the car to go 0-60 in 5.9 seconds or was it on autopilot? It's nice to hear the numbers are up a bit. As has been mentioned, the weight is really bogging down the performance numbers, but I'd say it's a solid entry all around. Anyone know if this is the "updated ecotec"? I know they were supposed to get updates sometime in 2012--just didn't know if it was for MY 2012, or in the actual 2012. I would expect this to be an updated LNF. Not sure what they would call this one. I think they had a LNX and LNY floating around for while but it never came to market both were 300 HP 275 LBS FT from 2600-5600 RPM with 2.1 liters. It got lost in the chapter 11. I expect this engine will be Premium recomend as GM has practiced of late. On regular it will lose about 20 HP. While premium is not that much more they do not want to scare any potential buyer off because of the fuel. The new systems are sweet as you can run regular with no risk of damage but are rewarded with the extra power putting the good stuff in. My SS was this way till I upgraded the Turbo and the GTP is still this way. While it may seem petty and silly to most here the thought of the price of premium does scare a lot of folks out there. I never tried it in the HHR but I have done it in the GTP just to see the difference. It is not a lot but noticeable. There is more torque steer with the premium in the GTP.

There is no suprise here and this number is not all they can do so I would expect more in the future. Even a Turbo Upgrade kit may be in the works like my SS or the Solstice. With the better trans axle it will be easy to go over the 300 HP level. The weight issue is the car now the turbo. It is the price you pay for a better ride and more sound deadening. Remember this is a lot better level of a car than the Camry. As for AWD I was not really wanting it in this car till they can either lose some weight or find a lighter or add a V6. AWD would not only add weight but rob more power from the engine.

The one my inlaws DTS was a quality nightmare and they were very lucky to get the extended warranty. This car even though they like it has left them with a less than good feeling about a new Cadillac. I was never a fan of this car as it is just not my kind of car but that is just my deal. I am willing to see what we really get with the XTS no one here really knows enough about it yet to really condem it yet. For the most the DTS shared with Buick too and few here complained about that. Cadillac is far from done yet so lets just see what else they bring to market. Right now they are building from the ground up and the higher volume cars are getting the first work.I would not be suprised to see a larger RWD sedan in the future. It is a shame the Northstar did not get the upgrades over time and could have become the engine it could have been for this segment. It was not a bad engine but GM just could not grow it as they had wished and killed the second gen due to the lack of funds.

Everything is going up the Vette is not the only one. Also could they be adding more to the price this years and hold the line on the new one? Just a thought.

I paid LESS in insurance for my 2002 Z-06 than I pay for my BMW 330i so no insurance is NOT a factor. And I was in my 20's when I had the Corvette. Lucky you it is sad but it just does not work that way for everyone. If it did we would have a hell of a lot more 20 somethings driving Vettes. What I am saying is the fact many in their teens due to age, areas they live and poor shopping for insurance can't often afford a Camaro insurance let alone a Vette or a BMW. I know when I was in my early 20's I had a clean record and wanted a Z28 TA. I could afford the cars but the insurance was more than I was willing to pay. I could afford it but I was not going to throw money away on just insurance. I can remember many even with a 2M4 Fiero getting reamed for $1500 a half in the late 80's and early 90's. Sorry but some of this is what drive many of todays youth into Civics and Cobalts not Vettes. I was lucky on my Fiero at $800 a half when I was working part time and in collage. The insurance agent gave me a $1300 quote on a T top Cutlass with a wimpy 305 V8. I told him I had a clean record and he said he would not even be taling to me if I had any issues. Back then you did not have a lot of cut rate deals on marginal insurance companies like you do today with Flo. A friend a few years back bought a Viper. He could afford the car but had to have it in his fathers name so he could insure it at a resonable price. Same on his BMW. He had a clean record. Not many kids today can afford a new car let alone a new performance car and insure it. This is part of the reason so many are driving crappy cars and they are happy with a video screen and stereo.

The age of Vette owner ship has gone up with price but also with insurance. Few people under 35 and single will foot the bill on insurance. Insurance is a bigger killer to more buyers than the price.

like the idea but its pretty much Fiero 2? I'd like to see an Acura NSX part duex. For lower price points it really just makes more sense to do something akin to a Cobalt SS. The Cobalt's problem was not its ability, but that no matter how effing well the car performed, it was still a $h!hy cobalt at the end of the day. Translation, a well done performance Cruze makes a much more sellable proposition in the market. Rule for cheap sports cars. #1 If you are to make a cheap sports car give it an area to carry luggage. #2 Make it a convertible #3 Make it appeal to women too. #4 Don't expect it to last more than 5-9 years. #5 The Cheaper the sports car the more practical it needs to be and the more it needs to share parts with other models. If GM were to do a mid engine it would have to be a higher end car. It would be low volume and it will not appeal to many out there. This is a small segment. Many people like these cars but will not buy them as they are not good for much other than driving. Trips are difficult and even a trip to the store can be a challange. These are task few do with an exotic so it is not a problem. While I would love to see GM do a exotic Mid Engine I just don't see it a great need for them to do. I would rather see them make the Vette smaller and lighter with as much or more power. Moving the engine to the middle is not the great advantage it once was with the new cars longer wheel base. Today you can achieve the 50/50 balance with a front engine and still not get the drop throttle oversteer. I have had a mid engine for 26 years and know how life is in one. While it is cool and neat to do it right would reduce the market and add a lot to the price. Note while the NSX was a nice car it just never caught on well. The Mid V6 hurt it as well as price. There were many other better options in that price range.

To get the emissions and power to keep it viable in todays world Porsche had to advance the motor to the point it only shares only the cylinder numbers and configuration. It would have been cheaper and easier to have go with a V8. Note Porsche considered it a several times but felt they had to keep the flat 6 for tradition and marketing. If you don'r believe it is that advanced then you go make a Air Cooled 6 that meets todays emissions standards. The Vette for the most has added FI and a few other things to help with emission but it has still kept the same valve layout and similar head configuration. It did not have to add water cooling and it did not have to add forced induction to make more power less the ZR1. Hell you have me defending the SBC as not having to be as reconfigured to meet the power and emission as easily as an air cooled engine. Yes the Corvette SBCs has used to have carburetors, points and condensers, etc. etc. But for Porsche it took a lot more just to keep the engine on the market meeting emissions and making the kind of power it needs to meeet or beat some of the V8 engines out there. Porsche could and should have taken the cheaper and easier way out but they did what they did for maketing. They gave the people what they want. Note that this did not stop Porsche from making the V8 and using it in many other cars they make. They give their customers a choice and they have increased sales and responded to it.

The Lotus Merc project was flawed from the start. They built it way over priced for the time and with technology that was in need of more computer. Today this same type engine could be made in house much cheaper and much better performing. The Porsche flat 6 is only a shodow of the original motor. It is a opposed flat 6 and that is all it really shares anymore. It is one of the most advanced engines in the world. It now has more valves, Liters and is now should I say it? Water cooling. There are a lot of things that make a Vette a Vette but even many of these things have changed over the years. Headlights that were open then hide away and now open again. A Split window that was then wasn't and will so be again. Heck the Vette was a inline 6 too but they changed that. Many said the loss of the Big Block was the end of performance it was not. While change is difficult in the Vette there are things that often are not popular moves at the time but in the long run are accepted. We will see a lot more changes in the C8 that will shake up some. Half will love them half will hate them and in the end they all come around and keep buying the Vette.

Been done and it was called a Fiero. Chevy already rejected this one in the Mid 70's when GM engineering offer it to them first. The book Inside the Corvette has a good section on this. A car like this would last 5-7 years at best. Check the life cycles of most low cost sports cars. A marketing manager said these cars are usally good for the stated time span and no more. Only the Vette and Miata have been able to find a solid long term market.

There are bigots on on both sides of this story. It is just is wrong to say the LS engine is just a pick up engine as it is to say DOHC is irrelevant. Both are very good engine both can be made to perform well and as well as the other in 95% of the places it is used. It is kind of like racing world wide. Some people love NASCAR as it puts on a good show and draws lots of fans. On the converse some love F1 not so much for the show they put on [unless it rains] but for the technical side of the cars and how they do what they do. There is nothing wrong with either forms and I appreciate both. The same goes for todays engines. Many people in todays market are tech crazy. They want the most advance and most trick engines. Ford has shown with the just what good marketing in a tech driven society can do. This whole game is more than just numbers and output. It is about marketing and making money. Many people precieve a companies advancement based on their technology hence the many new audio and voice systems in cars. To me they are a waste as much as many see DOHC. But it is what the unwashed masses think that matter as they are the ones laying the money down. The tech marketing is not just in the car field but phones, appliances and many other daily use items. All or most could be made simpler but it would effect their sales and profits. The fact is GM has really done litte to promote the advanced LS engine for the most part. To most they think it to be just an updated old SBC. To me it is much more than that since other some bore spacing and other small specs it really is a new engine. I stopped calling it a Small Block long ago since it share little to no parts anylonger. The fact remains that GM and Chevy are now a world wide brand and must appeal to all types of buyers world wide. The Vette like it or not would have an added advantage overseas as a smaller DOHC engine as they markets expect. The fact is Chevy will have to sell cars over there and to not take the Vette is a mistake they can not make. If they have both engines offer them here and give who ever wants what engine have their choice. Same applies to Cadillac as they must offer what others want and not just America. How many times do they have to fail before they do this. I would expect a ATS with a TT DOHC V8 or V6 would be right on with what they want over there. While they may not doninate the market over there right out of the box they do need to start by selling what they want. Selling and marketing cars never made sense. The public has always wanted more than they really need. Image is king. The bottom line is any IBC and DOHC engine can be made to do nearly the same thing and handle just as well in any car. To say one is slower or poorer handling is ignorant. Cars are tuned to handle with the power plant given to the car and we already know both engines can make more than enough power. It is now a adapt or die to a global market. If a company is not selling global cars in the next 10-15 years it will be at a great disadvantage and may be on their way out of the market.

OK if the pushrod is so great then ask why every major company is going to the more complicated engines and spending 100's of millions to do so? Why is it only a few people on the web see the light and so many of best engineers in the world are going down the other path. And again like stated before nearly anyone in support of a DOHC in the Vette also embraces keeping the pushrod engine too. We just see nothing wrong with opening the appeal to a larger market. No matter what you can never sell too many cars. If the pushrod is as good as you say than prove it by not showing fear of a second engine. I feel it has no reason to fear a second engine why not you?

No For one I am not a hater I and most others are open minded enough to understand the big picture and accept both engines. I have all ready ordered my event hat shirt from Badboys Vettes yesterday. When will you and others learn we are not aginst you we just would like to see the option of two engines offered. Long live Jake!

Funny how the LS9 Supercharger adds weight to the ZR1 and take power from the engine and GM found ways to keep the car balanced and fast. I guess they must have lost the engineers that figured this one out and can't do it with any other engine. There is no reason that a DOHC Vette can not be as balanced and as fast as any Vette on the market now. They would intergrate the engine into the new platform and make the car a complete package just as they did with the ZR1. They made a lot of changes and beter tuned the ZR1 to use the LS9 and did not just bolt the SOB in. They went to the carbon fenders and hood to keep the balance along with other chassis changes. The logic by some here is not valid with the ways they build cars today. This is not like some C3 they bolted some BBC in and tweeked the springs. Those days are long over. How many here are against a duel disc clutch too? Too much added weight and complicated?

GM need and should keep the pushrod engine as long as they can as there will be a place for it. That does not mean they can not or should not produce a modern engines that would better appeal to other world markets. GM has made it clear Chevy and Cadillac are now being moved to be global brands. They need to address engines and cars to appeal to more than just the NA market if they want to be sucessful. As for some of the claims on DOHC engines being slower? where does that come from. First off you can state this on an engine that may not even be in the works. What ever the power requirments are and what ever the chassis balance needs are they can be engineered into the car. If GM is to ever do this the car will be as good or better than they have now performance wise. The bottom line they should keep the one and just add the other engine. There is never a time when a company has sold enough car or made enough money. Hell people today are paying $795 more than a V8 for a TT V6 DOHC engine in the Ford F 150. Call it what you want but it is sales and more cash. You know the price difference is more than what it cost them to make this engine.

No one said it could not be done. A well trained driver and the Vette is not full less electronics. It may not be to the over kill extent of the Nissan which is good but the Vette has systems that can make a average driver a much better driver. I am begining to think this is high school again? There is 7 pages of posts in the other thread of people saying that the Corvette couldn't be competitive unless it goes DOHC. I also didn't say the Corvette didn't have electronics (however, it does have a competition mode that lets you shut most of them down.) The Nissan has 3 computer controlled differentials... that's a bit more computer intrusion... and the only way to get those numbers in the GT-R is with those computers. The Corvette + skilled driver performs better without. It's not highschool. It's proof that the "DOHC ONLY" drumbeat isn't all it's cracked up to be. No one in the other thread said it could not be competitive unless it goes DOHC only. Nearly everyone there that supports the DOHC only wants it as an option and keep the pushrod. Don't add to what was ever stated. As stated many many times to have both engines is a win win deal for GM. This is more than about NA market anymore. We need to look at the big picture as GM has clearly pointed out again this week. You have to give places like Europe what they want or GM will fail again to sell in Europe and the Vette will never do as well as it can there. What is offered there would make a nice option here. The pushrod is good enough to not be treatened by it in my view. It is kind of like car colors. Not everyone wants black so they give you options. As for the GTR I hate the car. As for the Vette it is not pure non electric sports car as while not up to the GTR level it does have some good systems on board but you can atleast shut them off. So let me make this clear I am in favor of keeping the Pushrods. I just would like to see an option engine to compliment sales and offer what many in the market want. It is all about giving the customer what they want and selling car is it not. In todays market you can never say we sell enough as present sales levels can vanish in months. Today you need to be aggresive and fight for every sale.

No one said it could not be done. A well trained driver and the Vette is not full less electronics. It may not be to the over kill extent of the Nissan which is good but the Vette has systems that can make a average driver a much better driver. I am begining to think this is high school again?