hyperv6

The HHR sold well and better than any Cobalt wagon would have done. The real issue is to redo a retro is a real slippery slope. If you don't do enough to change it the car ends up looking like it did before. The PT fail liked this. Now if you change it a lot then you lose a lot of the people who like the present design. The Granite is coming and like it or not it will sell pretty well if priced right. The price more than the styling is key. The HHR sold half on styling but half on price as you got a good verital vehicle for the money. Like the box styling or not they are selling and this is what the public wants. You can sling a dead hamster anymore with out hitting a Soul. Here again price and styling are working together. This was something many said would fail and it turned out to be one of the best thing GM did in the last 10 years as they made a lot of money on this with little investment. I want to see where they price the Granite and see where this takes us. I bought my HHR because of the way it drove, utility and the MPG. ALso I hated the Colorado. I have no regret buying it even when I did not want a 4 cylinder or FWD. Good styling does not need to be retro and that way is drying up. I feel GM can do well with some modern styling if they just keep it interesting. I would love to see somthing on the Granite platform that has a modern Nomad roof like the HHR Nomad show car had but with is different nose.

The 04 GTP had 10 when Bob got there and then they added a much better looking 5 spoke option that I got on mine. The 04 GTP was called the bucky beaver when Bob arrived. He fixed what he could and the car we got while not perfect was a lot better than we would have gotten. I saw a photo once of the original and it made the G6 GXP look good.

I know some have has issues but my 2 buddies that have one and the 5 people at works have all had trouble free vehicles. Mine only had issues with the intercooler hitting the map sensor once I upgraded to the Turbo upgrade. I was the one who figured this issue out that lead to a memo to the dealers. Also I has a seat belt with high resistance that that needed replaced as it turned the air bag service message on when it got hot out. Otherwise I have had a very trouble free 3 years. More trouble free than most of my other GM cars. While the HHR is not trouble free for all I also know the many others walk on water either.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/autos/1106/gallery.jd_power_best_initial_quality_cars/9.html Funny how no one loves a artist till he is dead and GM always gets a car right and stops production.

When was this? I seem to recall a lot of non-Chevies having 5 spoke wheels. Actually, the chrome band BS is what has really driven me away from Chevy in the last decade. The 5 spoke deal was when Bob arrived at GM. If you are reading at home wait till you get to the part about APEX. Advance Products Experimentation. A group of non car people who basically free think up crazy ideas that will be the next big hit. Basically Bob discribes them as artsy free thinking hippies that can't draw. They would come up with ideas like why don't we do a car that flys? Their ideas then are transfered to paper and then to scale models or clays set in Hollywood sets in a studio. Needless to say they were one of the first things to go along with their bean bag chairs. Bob also points out one of the cars he was shown they were looking at was a 7 passenger Vue. It had a tail tacked on that looked like a extended van. Imagin how that would go over. He said one mistake he made was the XUV from GMC. He wanted to kill it and then got talked into keeping it. They kept telling him that studies said they would sell 90,000 or more of the long wheel baised moving roof SUV. Well the one year it it 13,000 with many leaks and motor issues. The Seville that later bacme the STS has a laid back windshield and a flat roof. It made the car look horrible. He asked why the out of proportion roof? The reply was it could use the sun roof from the old car and save money. He told them that why don't you use the roof from the CTS and make the roof correctly proportioned. They liked the idea. Bob pointed out something we all need to consider here with all future product. The needs of a customer can be satisfied by any 2 year old used car. What Automakers need is cater to the wants ans desires of the public not only to what they need. One last one The stylist on a new Chevy showed him the new sedan he was doing in the studio. It looked nice and was a big improvment over the old car. The car did not have chrome Day Ligth Openings. [Door window frames]. Bob told the stylist the car needed them and he agreed that it would look much better. The stylist was worried about going over budget and Bob told him if the car fails he will get the blame and if it is a hit they will forgive the cost overun. The car was the 2005 Impala. The part with Joe Spielman is a classic story from Bob on how they improved the body panel fit and what it took to get it done. Joe the Harley riding Corvette collector made a impression on Bob in several ways. One last story. They took a Chrysler 300 per managment wanted to know why they GM could not do a car that looked like that. [This was a FWD 300]. They had the car in the studio with over 90 post it notes on GM design rules it broke. Things like tire to fender fit etc. The ash tray that needs to work smoothly at -40 was the worst.

Some of it is so obvious that you can't believe they still did what they did. In the TV interview Lutz points out these facts also in the book. Chevy was the only division that could have 5 spoked wheels. Chevy had to have a wide chome band in the grill because people liked it in their trucks? Pontiac had to have a head rest with a open hole in the center. It cost $15 more because they think Pontiac people expected it? All Buicks at the time he arrived had to have a sweep sear not matter if it fit the styling or not. It gets worse.

The 220 Turbo is not branded a performance car just a sporty sedan with more power. Power it really needs to get the mass moving. I expect it will be the one that sells the most. While the 300-360 Bi Turbo AWD sound great do you really thing people would pay between $40K-50K for it? This is why I expect the OPC is not here. The OPC is not cheap in Europe let alone what it would cost here. Buick gets a pass this time on this car as it is like the Chrysler 200. It is just an older model filling hole till the new clean sheet of paper car arrives. The next car needs to be right and more than the customer expects. It need to exceed expectations to make a dent in this market. The present car while nice only meet expectations. GM needs to step it up to move forward. As it is now I just got a flyer today from a local dealer showing Regals available for as low as $25K and they were well optioned. 220 Turbo's were under $30K.

You must. It answers a lot of things we thought we knew but were not sure. Also it reveils how bad somethings were. I waa amazed when he said Saturn was mad bland because people who bought Saturns were not car people and like bland post modern styling. The first Vue's nose was pointed out as being plain because that the buyers wanted it that way. Who in their right mind would ever think that. It just points out how much lack of common sense and out of touch GM was. Lutz stated on Autoline that GM has some of the smartest people in the world working for them but they lack the common sense of what to do. Too often he shows how GM over aynalzes everything and then still make the wrong choice because they just did not use common sense in the end.

The book is his book and his own opinion. Bob has every right to say what he believes just as Al Gore has as much right to publish his opinon too.

I just started readng Bob Lutz's new Book Car Guys vs Bean Counters. This is one of the best books to show the modern workings or should I say non workings of GM in the last 20 year. Bob give a little past history and also addesses some of what got GM to where they are at today. He details his time there and what he found when he arrived. It goes on with the business think and how they over think many simple common sense things. I have not gotten all the way through yet but Bob is very candid and many GM people still with GM contributed to the book. I think this is his way to try to make sure things don't go back to what they once were again. In other words it may be directed at the board and gives him the ability to stay what needs said to them. Also I think it will help those in GM still trying to carry out what he started. This book is much like John Deloreans book On a Clear Day You Can See GM. I think some will in GM will hate it and others will love that some of the foolishness has been exposed since they can not do it themselves. Shame and public knowledge can be a game changer at times. Also check out Autoline as Bob was on there and spoke on this topic for a half hour. This book is a must for all GM fans.

There is a 2.4 liter, a 2.0 turbo and a GS, not sure what you mean by the 1.4 turbo. But regardless, the 2.0 Turbo is $30,000-$35,000, and the 19 inch wheels are an extra $2900. Putting a loaded 2.0 at $38,000. The Regal GS I think will cost $40,000, and won't sell at that price. Sorry I mixed up my engines. Most of the Regals here are really selling for $30K and under. I agree the GS can not get too close or over $40K as there are too many other cars more appealing. If not this will be a rebate car at $33K.

This is why in large part we did not get the OPC. It would have been well over $40K. Nice car but tough to sell in this market. I figure they will keep the price in the mid 30's to kind of under cut the others. Pricing is what killed the GXP Bonnie. It was a nice car but at $38K a few years ago there were some really good RWD cars for just a little more. The real key to the Regal is the 1.4 Turbo. This is the profit car. They will sell more of these and make more of these. It is the one they need make sure is priced really well. The GS will sell 5000 unit the first year and less after that till the plaform is redone. This car is just a patch in the line up and not the the package Buick going to end with. Like I said before this car will be a short run and we will get a upgraded model say 3 years from now.

Were good, just a tough day at work. We are in the middle of busy season and we have the big race at Norwalk this week. Add to that I am in the middle of building and moving to a new house and new garage. I have to decide which Corvette billboard to put up the 78 Silver anniversery or the 93 Red roadster. Both are 22 X 9 ft. What one would you do?

What excuses? GM still has a lot of work to do and sticking a V6 or a V8 in this car will solve nothing nor add any more MPG. You might gain a 1/2 to one second on the 0-60 that few buyers will notice. The real fix will come with weight reduction. GM is already taking weight off the engines and if they are doing that you know the next gen cars will also lose a few pounds. Just the new exhaust manifolds on the 3.6 lost 13 pounds. The header companies will hate the cast part of the head but that is the way it goes. By the way how many LNF turbos have you driven and how much seat time did you get. I assume you also have a lot of 3.6 seat time too? You seen to really understand so much what they are really like to drive in the real world.

Here is a good case were someone needs to drive a LNF before they make statements like this. Here are the plain truths from someone who owns both. Turbo Lag is not really an issue as it once was. The new LS even has more lag in kick down getting on the freeway. I agree there is a little more noise but often it is due to the fact the car has little noise insulation since it is a cheaper car. The Regal this is less a factor. MOst of todays cars can be made to deal with the increase in NHV with no issue. The new ATS will prove this. Note the 3.6 V6 will wail like a Banshee as much or more if you nail it. It is far from silent. Greater complexity. What engine today is not complex. Things like dropping cylinders etc on the new LS has not made it simpler. It soon will have a more complext VVT system and ther features too. Oil changes are no more frequent in a turbo 4 than any other engine. The NA 3.6 does not get better MPG. Not even close. I can safely say there is a place for both engnes. I used to be a cylinder bigot but knowing the truth today I fine all numbers of cylinders accpetable with the improvments in todays engines. This is a good example of how I also felt till I drove one of these engines. I felt like I was taking a risk with the LNF when I bought it as it was not something I ever even considered. But today this engine has met ever needm challange and expectation I had. I have enjoyed this engine and everything it has provided. Now I have not spent time with say an engine like the 1.4 Turbo but again I really don't know as I have not driven one yet nor spent any time behind the wheel of one. To me the combo of less power and more weight do not sound good but who am I to judge since I have never driven one. The auto world is going to be mostly small turbo engines and GM needs to get these engines in place. The rest of the lines will see Turbo V6 and some V8s in the larger cars. This is where things are going. 323 HP is in a FWD car is not really an issues. GM of anyone has tuned the FWD to the point that they can do what many said they could never do. I agree it is better served in RWD but not all cars will be RWD so they need to make due with what they have. I have owned many RWD and FWD performance cars and today I can say that the FWD LNF has been one of the most fun daily drivers I have ever owned and by far the cheapest to keep on the road. The issues with the GS is nothing that 3200-3400 could not solve easily. Based on the non Turbo Regal I drove mass has everything to do with the MPG and 0-60 issues. But then again this is not a M seried killer nor does it claim to be.

The GTP 04 Comp G with the 3:23 ratio (other see 3:08 I believe] gets 19 around town and 25 highway. That is also the 260 HP Series III with less torque. One thing to we need consider that the new DOHC VVT Eco Turbo engines are great on torque and over a much flatter power band. This makes the car feel even or powerful than it is. My 2.0 feels more like and pulls more like a V8 vs my 3800 Series III. The only real gripe I have is the exhaust sound. Not much you can do with it.

It's even heavier than that, weighing 3669lbs and having a 0-60 of 6.6 seconds... All the better to compare. I seldom heard anyone say my GTP was a dog. While this car is not going to set any records at the ring it will be a good driver. 1/2 to 1 second on the street between 0-60 few will notice. It will feel faster to 80% of what the buyers had before. Also the MPG will drop less in this car when driven hard. It all comes down to the point GM could have not brought the Opel in this gen and waited how long for a clean sheet of paper car. Or GM could bring the Opel and start work on future models and still sell a decent car to the public. This cars point is to drive the age of buyers down and prepare Buick for a future of cars that appeal to more than someone 60 years old. IT is setting the direction of the brand away from what it was to where it is going. The GS looks good and I am sure based on the Opel drives very good in daily driving. If you want more there are other cars to choose like the Camaro etc.

I mentioned that in my first post in this thread. Quite true. My wife's Maxima can do it in the 6-sec range as well... I think it's 6.6 for the auto. Again, we come to weight... both your GTP (3400-ish?) and our Maxima (3001) are at least two people lighter than the Regal. I think my GTP is 3500-3600 pounds.

Wow someone gets it here! The Regals weight is a massive issue. As a regular driver of a Eco turbo, 3.6 V6 and a LS V8 I know what they all can do. The Smaller engines have an advantage of higher city MPG vs the larger engines. The highway MPG can be close with all. Also if driven hard the 4 will still keep pretty good numbers where the larger engines can make a larger drop in MPG. The area where the Eco turbo stands out is that it get good MPG no matter if I drive it hard or not. I can't say the same for the others. I also have a advantage of almost 500 pounds less weight but I do have the aero of a brick. Funny thing is there were many muscle cars in the 60's with big blocks that could not hit any of the numbers the Regal can do today in performance or economy. Some even weighed in less. The MPG is a non issue on the GS as people looking for economy will stay with the normal Regal or opt for the coming E assist package. I would not be suprised if this car is a Premium fuel recomended car. If so watch for a dealer installed Turbo Upgrade kit. A bump of 30-50 HP id not hard. Just bump the tune and require premium. The kit is a good idea as they let the owner chose what he wants and keeps his warranty while GM and the dealer have an add on sale. Might note the times for the Regal GS are similar to my GTP series III 3800. It's a 6 second 0-60 car and I never heard anyone complain there?

The simple fact is they can't lower prices but they can increase content. That is just what they are doing. The same is happening for the present cars where they are adding more standard features if they raise the price. Labor and raw material cost are pretty much fixed or rising in the industry but adding feature adds precieved value and helps sell products with out adding much more cost to the cars. People want all the bells and whistles and they also want them to work a year after the car was built. China could pose a challange in the future but they have many things to overcome first. They can copy at gain a share of the market but they can never dominate with a poor copy. Also they have some real economic issues of their own to deal with. Even with low cost and forced labor they have had to prop up their GDP with un needed building projects. They now have 50 Million empty apartments no one there can afford sitting empty. They will see a houing crisis greater than our own. Hyundai learned you an low ball a car but the Americans in time will reject the low cost car quality. They have moved the quality up to a point they are not a low ball company anymore. They are now just under cutting priced a little now with much better cars. It was either that or go the way of the Yugo. In time they will continue to increase their prices with better acceptability. The low cost advantage goes away fast when people understand the money they saved up front will be needed to fit the cheap car two years later. If building a cheap car was a good long term plan they all would be doing it outside the third world.

The car in person is not a bad looking car. It has a lot of room in it for the size it is. The improvment in feel and quality is night and day from the Aveo. Chevy will also offer things in this car standard that either are extra cost or not even offered in the others. It is not a car for me but it will find a market and the buy American thing will play well with many. GM will do well with this car if it handled as well as Autoweek said it did. The Turbo engine should make this a sprited drive. This is not a car for most here on this web site. But here again we need to look at this as the big picture. The whole point is to sell car to everyone not just gear heads.

It is only going to go higher I am sad to say. By the time you stike your deal this will be below 14K.

Check this out. http://www.mongoosems.com/index.php Mongoose is not in Ravenna Ohio Just east of Akron. They used to be G&S Corvette years ago in Akron and then were sold to someone in Medina Ohio when they did have money issues. Mogoose took over they have been in and around the Akron area since. Even Tim Allen came to town and had one built. I is common to see these cars in Penske colors or even the Foyte paint running open side pipes with pumped up LS or even 572 Big Blocks. THey use a similar tube frame with new Corvette control arms etc. Some are stipped down inside like the race cars and some are fully fitted. Each one is different. The GTP cars are amazing. I wish they would paint one in the Goodwench colors. That would be something to see. The thing on the GS that always make me sad is they never really got developed as well as they could have. A few simple changes to the nose and we may not have so many Shelby fans today. I would love to build one of these cars some day. A friend of mine has one and loves it.

This. Get used to it boys....the next round of "entry level" cars are going to start at 20 grand. Remember, as trucks slowly disappear, a company has to make money you know....... Yep! With the average price of a car now over $30K that leaves $15K as entry level. GM can also market the hell with the fact this is a made in USA car vs some third world. Fit and finish for this price range was good in this car for this kind of money. It is not a CTS interior by anymeans but much nicer than most. I did not drive it but from what I have read so far it sound like it does well in ride and handling.

If driven around town and like they should they fall well short of the ultra high numbers. Whle they still do pretty well they fall short of what the average buyer wants. The Regal is not a car trying to be a replacment for the LS loving Camaro owner. It will do well with the people who are into this type of car. God knows there are a ton of Regals here on the roads. Most with under 50 year old drivers.