hyperv6

We went to the auction they had a the Glenmoore Concours last year and a low miles Seville went for stupid money. While the car was low milage it still needed a lot of work. There were a lot better buys at that event than that Seville. We figured they had two guys drinking and bidding against each other.

My first thought when I saw this one was "good things come to those who wait". This car would have killed any chance we had for the present well done wagon. The one Automobile showed was like the son of Aztek. The proportions are all wrong. It has the flow of a bad Volvo. My first thought when I saw this one was "good things come to those who wait". This car would have killed any chance we had for the present well done wagon. The one Automobile showed was like the son of Aztek. The proportions are all wrong. It has the flow of a bad Volvo.

Ok there were many who cried for diesels and for a Cruze diesel time to put you money down. I heard about this a little while ago. I hope it works. It is smart for GM to offer a high mileage diesel in the cruze first and show case what a modern diesel can do. It just may convince people it is a good idea for more expensice cars like a new Impala or even ATS. If GM can post 50 MPG with this car it will be a great marketing effort. That could even help sell more gas Cruze as it will put the car before the public and may get some to look at the car that never would have before.

What many forget on V12 engines is that most were very small engines. The Ferrari had pistons that looked like a Briggs and Stratton. The Jag has a stoke that was so short. I remember the first one we pulled the head off of and rolled it over it was amazing how little the stoke was. Many of these older V12's were around 5.0 liters. What V12s I have driven were very smooth. But that was before many V8 and V6 engines were refinded with balance shafts and other things that made them feel as smooth and powerful. The best thing I ever heard was a group 44 Jag IMSA car at Mid Ohio. Thes to this day are the sweetest sounding race car this side of an old Ferrari. I also had a guy here in town that had a rebodied Ferrari 250 coupe that was changed to a mechanically correct 250 GTO. Physically this car was a GTO and was reworked in Italy by Scaglietti. I would see him on the on ramp here in town near my work and the sound of the car echoing off the concrete walls was a thrill. Too bad any modern V12 would never have the same sounds as these cars.

Where did I say the pushrod did in GM? Don't even go there with me! Not having a good viable update or replacment for the Northstar did not help GM and put them behind in the eyes of many buyers but GM issues were much deeper than that. It is not that the pushrod did not sell cars, my point is that they would appeal to more people and would have sold more cars. The problems GM had would have still been there no matter what engine they sold. 3800 was a good engine for people who really never drove a modern power plant. Trust me I know what a 3800 is as I own one. Reliable yes, Economy ehhhh, smoothness no, cheap to build yes. Owning both a 3800 SC Series III [the best they did] and a 3.6 HV I would take the HV anyday for smoothness and queit. Gas economy is better both in town and highway by a couple MPG. Don't get me wrong I like my 3800 SC but it is a old engine and is showing it's age. The reliability was not one good point with me on the 3800 as I just had to put on a head gasket. It leaked and took the converter and 02 sensors out too. We also lost an intake on mom's Buick too. Other than a water pump on a GM engine I seldom have issues but the two 3800's in our family they both have needed more work than I have had to do with any other. A buddy work just put an intake on his Intrigue 3800. The plastic intakes are an issue. My point is the market has left the pushrod behind and it gives the public the impression GM is behind the others. What people think can hurt a company. It may not kill it but it can hurt image and sales. In the past some companies and models have died due to poor image and marketing issues. Pushrods kill GM no but do they prevent non GM people from considering the brands Yes! Fair no but that is the way it is. In this day and age no company can afford to leave any sales on the table.

GM will not do a V12, W12 or I12. A small V8 still has a place and could still be used in many vehicles world wide. Don't forget about Holden/Vauxhaul. VW just did the W engines to save space. They were trying to keep the cars somewhat smaller in the nose and these engine work well enough and made for a much smaller package. Also they marketed the hell out of it till the Phaeton failed.

Just a quick detail in Dwight's excellent overview: those early SOHC and DOHC engines were all inline designs, IE: one head. You obviously must feel the same way about the BMW inline 6. The entire world industry has abandoned the inline 6 in favor of a V6 decades ago. Therefore, by your logic, BMW is overdue to declare bankruptcy. That is so weak...you usally have better than that one and you know it. I can't even compare this as apples to oranges. The only reason the inline is not popular with most is size and has nothing to to with technology or in this case perceived technology. Many buyers today would pick the inline BMW as being a advanced engine not so much because it is but that is what they think. The Camry became the best selling car for a long time not because it was the best car but people thought it was and that is what they wanted.

The Ecotec replaced the iron-block pushrod I4 here. Made more sense that people know. And we know GM is slow to change things... To be fair, most of Ford's V8s prior to the Coyote were SOHC 3V engines. So also in this case, speaking of DOHC 4V is speaking more of the updates on the (admittedly) ancient Modular engine. However, since the LS7 isn't really replacing anything technology-wise, and the LS9/LSA are (to some extent) forced-induction LS3s, why mention anything about a valvetrain? As has been mentioned here, they've had to shelve any new DOHC V8 engine designs due to the financial woes of years ago, while the LS line has been (correctly) deemed indispensable. Whether they revive the Ultra V8 (or something like that) program is up for speculation, but I doubt anything will be unpacked in the next ten years. Other things matter more. Ok you and a few people on the web ands two companies that went bankrupt are all correct and an entire world industry is wrong along with their marketing and engineering staffs by heading down the path of the evil DOHC. Just think of all the money they are spending if you are right. I will have to watching for that protest in Stuttgart pleading for the pushrods return by the disapointed buyers. In fact we may hear Top Gears presenters dis all DOHC this year in efforts to bring back the pushrod. No one really knows if Tata or Mahindra will ever come here let alone even if they will offer a pushrod. They may lead the change? So at this point like I stated let agree to disagree.

You missed the point. Look at the latest Z06 3 page ad and they talk abot the Z06 V8 They give the power rating, the torque and even the fact it uses Sodium filled valves. They make no mention as they do with most V6 and 4 cylinders the cam and valve count. My LNF turbo has often been stated as being a 24 valve DOHC. Chevy markets the engine but leaves out the advances that they have made on the engine. It leaves me feeling like they are not wanting anyone to notice. Ford plasters the 32 valve on everything they can when speaking tech aspects on their new Coyote V8. They make sure people know. They have enough cars they put this in but in the cars they advertise they give HP numbers and some tech info but not much else. The engine is advanced enough it really to me is no longer a SBC. Very little is shared other than some dimentions. They did do a good job and should market it. Even on the LS9 they spend more time on the supercharger and intercooler than talking about much else on the engine other than the drysump. They could so enough DOHC small V8 engines that would sell world wide to make it worth the investment. Cadillac and the Vette could and would sell many overseas. They also would do well here. The smaller enigne would play well in many markets. I see it better than a V6 Vette. The future for any V8 will be limited no matter the layout. They will be more limited and more expensive as time moves on.

Here is the problem with your argument... I'll wager that 95% or more of the general public do not know what DOHC is. Of the remaining 5%, some of them will be smart enough to know technical merit when they see it, some won't. But whatever the split is within that 5% it is irrelevant from a sales and marketing standpoint. In the end the car will sell based on looks, interior quality, refinement, performance, fuel economy and value. It wouldn't sell on the alphabet soup on the engine cover or the lack thereof. Most know what DOHC means as it is self explanitory. They may not know the techinical merits one way or the other but they believe what they have been taught over the years. Also they see it in a Benz and BMW so it has to be better no logic needed by the unwashed. Remember precieved value, precieved quality, precieved refinment etc are what is true to them. Few people outside GM fans and old muscle car fans have any love for the pushrod. Where outside GM is the loud clamor for them? Do you see BMW fans writing letter asking for the pushrod? Benz? Even now few cry for them at Ford with the new Coyote out. Sorry but the market has shifted and most companies give what is expected in a car anymore. They no longer have to sell it as they all have it but for a few cars and some trucks. We will just have to agree to disagree. But as it is the entire industry is proving you wrong. They are making money and selling cars so someone must want what they offer. None of companys that offer nothing but DOHC have filed Chapter 11. There are many things todays advanced sports sedans don't need but the bag of tricks they offer sell cars. Self parking is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen but it sells cars. Technology sells no matter if it is needed or not. It is human nature that more is better that is what the luxury and sports market is all about. Bugatti could have gotten by with a pushrod V8 but lets face it a Turbo W16 has help set them appart and many look at them as a technology leader so much to pay the price. The guy could build a 1,000 HP Vette for much less. This is where Cadillac needs to be. A car special enough to pay more money for it so they can make a profit on less cars. People buy limited AMG's and other special cars as they want the only one at the country club. Luxury cars need to feed the ego it is not about that the pushrod is more efficent or fits in a smaller area. In this class less is not considered better. That thinking is best saved for an Impala etc.

I can tell you never had any real marketing in school or did any through work. You take to much for granted. The public as a whole are stupid. They believe only what you want them to believe and that is where marketing comes in. If you polish a turd enough and and market it right you can sell it to 75% of the people out there. While I agree with most but not all of you engineering ideas the fact is you still have to sell it as today few products sell themselves. The bottom line is you can post all the numbers you like and be right on most of them but the public precieves things much different than you and some other here. This line of though is part of what got GM in trouble. They gave people what they determind to be what they needed and people went elsewhere to buy what they wanted or thoght they needed. Numbers mean little to the public but good marketing sells the product and technology. Now see you example of FWD vs RWD is given at face value and is accurate. But people do not care about saving weight and adding space to a small car and the MFG understood this. So they marketed the cars as getting better traction in snow and sporty handling. You and I know these are false claims. While they were marketed with claims all the weight was over the front wheels [which is true till you step on the gas] the old rule of for ever action there is a equal and opposite reaction. In other words the weight transfers to the rear when you step on the gas. Now marketing has convinced many today they can no go into the world of snow without FWD and refuse to buy a RWD for fear of being stranded. If GM wants to change the image of the old pushrod they need to market it or get out of it. They are trying to hide it now and it wins few converts while everyone else is singing a different tune. As for the gear heads. I just had a guy today that has waited for 4 cams for his Shelby. $14000 worth of cams and he still has not gotten them yet after 2 months. He has no regrette as I asked him if he missed his old 5.0. His reply was no as he see's his new engine as much more advanced and modern. This is what I see more and more of. I am ok with it as my company just makes more money sellig more cam parts than ever. As for the Global warming deal no need to bring it up to me as we are on the same team here.

The interior is coming with the new car. The engine and tranny had to change as they killed off the Fred Flintsone drivetrain. If they were in production I would think they would not have changed them. The Driveline was an easy fix as it will carry to the new car. For once GM did the driveline first and the new car second vs the new car first and the new engine a year or so later. The Impala is not worth anymore investment than what is needed to keep it in production. The money is better sent to the new car and make it even better. The W has served it's company well after a bad start but it can leave soon with grace.

Most enigines today are around the same noise levels. The real issues effecting noise are insulation in the car and the intake on the car. Most have little to nothing to do with the valve placment either way. Smoothness is all in the tuning and how the crank is layed out and is the internal balancing system. Most noise today on most modern engines are the high pressure pump for DI. I just love the guye with Cadillac SUV's that by a K&N intake system then complain about the intake noise. They have no clue the intake noise supression is the restirction that K&N takes out to increase air flow. On the other hand the Camaro and Mustang guys love the intake sound increase.

Well, following flawed popular opinion in defiance of the technical facts and merit is not a good strategy. A good example is the 1.4T in the Cruze. Losing a third of the displacement and adding a turbocharger resulted in an engine that is both expensive and worse in fuel economy than competing 1.8 and 2.0 liter NA engines in the same or slightly superior power class. Wanting DOHC for the sake of the alphabet soup is more like saying you want the BMW grade interior but not an even better interior, because it is a grade BMW interior and people expect it. I don't think most consumers care about DOHC at all. They do care about performance, refinement and fuel economy. Show that you can do all that better than the competition and your choice of valvetrain layout won't matter. In fact, do that and sustain that for a generation or two and you'll have gear heads demanding, compact, lightweight and efficient pushrod engines. Flaw popular opinion of the public is also known as giving the customer what he wants. The public does not have to be product smart but a company has to give them what they want or expect. You think in many ways like old GM. You may be right in your numbers but if people want something else you will lose the sale every time. I think you really underestimate the public. FYI: I work with the gearheads everyday for the last 17 years. The market is not all pushrods anymore and is less and less everyday. I have seen it change first hand. Without any kind of marketing or vast brainwashing GM will be the last pushrods standing soon and they will pay the price for it in the marketing aspet of it. Hell they treat them like a damn seceret as it is. Just look at the latest Z06 ads. I fear the next pushrod V8 will be the last. If will have a good run but I do not see it moving to a next Gen. Marketing for it does not exist and there is less and less demand for it. DOHC is like the FWD has more traction debate. We all here know it is not true as simple physic point this out. But the marketing of FWD in the 80's sold it to the public and it is ingrained in them to the point many fear RWD as they think they can not get around in the snow. Yet we did fine for nearly 80 years without it. The general public is not car savy and believe what they are told true or not. Today most know little about DOHC but they have been taught it is better for performance, refinement and fuel economy and since nearly all MFG and all engine today have it, it has to be good. Sorry marketing wins 90% of the minds and hearts of the unwashed car buying public no matter what numbers you post. To bring back the pushrod would take a great maketing campain and it would be an uphill battle the entire way unless other MFG join in. People need pushrods but they want DOHC. It is that simple they don't have to understand it they just believe the last 30 years of marketing that they have been hit with about it. Even with many failed cam belts etc you thing some would think different after bending every valve in some engines.

They try and continue to try to organize these foreign owned plants but to no avail. Many of these plants are in the south or in areas that are not union friendly and most do not want to organize. They have targeted the new VW plant and and only time will tell if they can get in there. Many of the big three plants are in areas pro union and are much easier for them to heard the brainwashed workers to their needs.

This is the correct thinking. You want to appeal the car to the widest market of buyers you can that are in the market for a car like this. The formula for failure is to target the same small group you targeted for years. The Vette has been lucky to sell on legacy for many years and they finally got the performance back to where it needed to be. The rest of the car could and should measure up to appeal to the non Vette fan as much as the Vette fan. Last year sales were just over 12K units. In the past that could have been a death sentence for a new Vette, the chapter 11 may have saved the Vette. If GM had the Vette to the point it appealed to a wider group sales more than not would not have been as low as they were. Also if it was sold in a global market a 1000 here and a 1000 units there add up. Just look a Chevys global sales for the first half of this year as they set a record. Each and every market adds up and Chevy now is working as one unit and not 17 different Chevy Divisions.

Most of GM's engines are going to see weight loss as a prime change. Also we will see improvments in drive quality with more refine, power and more MPG. Sizes will continue to shrink no matter how some here disagree the trend is market wide. Few cars will offer a V8 and many pickups will soon be seen with Turbo V6 engines. I expect many turbo's to be available on most V6 and 4 cylinder engines. They will become very common on just regular non performance applications. As for the DOHC V8 I expect to see one at some point. Do they have to have one? On paper no but in the world of marketing and public opinion if they want to compete on a global scale with REW sports sedans, coupes and sports cars they will need one in some markets. DOHC is like the guy who said they did not need to put a better interior in the Vette as he was fine with it. It was pointed out while he was fine with it many others were not. As he was told the goal is to sell not just to Vette fans but to try to win over converts from other brands. You have to give them what they want not just what they need. I too am a believer in keeping both engines let the people choose and sell more cars. That's what it's all abou isn't it? Globalization of GM will effect the Vette as I suspect the new car will be much more smaller appearing and may lose a litte in size by the C8. Size matters in many markets. They don't have to sell the Vette in Europe but they should as like ever other market they can fit it in too. Chevy just set a record of first half sales this year with their global presents. All these countries ad up to a lot of cars and this first half they sold more than they ever have in a half year in 100 years. Not if they can turn these sales into profits. Hmmm! Now Volume is fine for Chevy and Buick but for Cadillac it should be quality and profit at much more exclusive volumes outside the ATS. The ATS needs to be the car to sell the world that the more expensive Cadillacs are worth the price. People will take a chance on a $40K car but not a $80K car.

Just proof the UAW memebers are on drugs. We even have several video's. I get tired of the Unions leaders and Politcians playing the class warfare card. They preach to these people how evil the rich companies and CEO's are as they ply their own pockets with money, power and votes. Funny how many of the riches political people in this country are supporting and supported by Unions but they are not evil.

All the right bits are in place for the ATS. Power train wise, GM will have a more than competitive 2.0T engine, 3.6 DI V6, DI Smallblock V8 and, if you really want, a 170~190hp 2.0 turbodiesel for our European friends to tap. Platform wise it'll be something smaller and light than the 3900 lbs Zeta. How much lighter might be subjected to debate, but even if its on the porky side at 3600 lbs it won't be a deal killer. It all comes down to the execution now... and as far as that goes the jury is still out. Yes the ATS look like the first real effort that would address the Global market. If and when they go back to Europe they will need s diesel and I am sure one will find it's way in. The engines you are juggling here are good fodder but I suspect we have yet to see what engine GM will really have. I get the feeling many of the engines you have mapped out may not even be in play and will be updated or replaced with other plants. The Eco is evolving now, The HV V6 will also see changes. The V8 pushrod is getting some major changes that GM has not even fully outlines and only hinted at. I also suspect we will see a small DOHC V8 to fill market needs in global markets. You can play with numbers all you like but most buyers expect these engines. Even with the Pushrod engine they really need to market the advantages and give the Cadillac their own tunes and trim. I would love to see the engines dressed in Aluminum covers and even billet parts with stainless trim. At the very least powder coated vs the plastic covers. The owner of a Cadillac should be proud to open the hood, trunk and interior to show of his car and its quality. It was details like this that made it a standard others were judged by. Even my Fiero came powder coated red covers and intake with Stainless 12 point fasteners. Cadillac should get no less. Actually, I do not expect much changes to the 2.0T and the 3.6 V6 between now and the ATS's launch as a 2014 model in 2013. The 2.0T just went through a major revision from the LNF to the LHU. The 3.6 just got revised this year to the LFX. You may be right. But engines are one area GM seems to be willing to make greater changed and offer more tunes than any other between markets. Just look how much the Ecotec has changed and varied over the years. I think GM is far from done with the engines. I see them tayloring these engine per model line and market with wider changed. I also see more moves to make them lighter like the new V6.

All the right bits are in place for the ATS. Power train wise, GM will have a more than competitive 2.0T engine, 3.6 DI V6, DI Smallblock V8 and, if you really want, a 170~190hp 2.0 turbodiesel for our European friends to tap. Platform wise it'll be something smaller and light than the 3900 lbs Zeta. How much lighter might be subjected to debate, but even if its on the porky side at 3600 lbs it won't be a deal killer. It all comes down to the execution now... and as far as that goes the jury is still out. Yes the ATS look like the first real effort that would address the Global market. If and when they go back to Europe they will need s diesel and I am sure one will find it's way in. The engines you are juggling here are good fodder but I suspect we have yet to see what engine GM will really have. I get the feeling many of the engines you have mapped out may not even be in play and will be updated or replaced with other plants. The Eco is evolving now, The HV V6 will also see changes. The V8 pushrod is getting some major changes that GM has not even fully outlines and only hinted at. I also suspect we will see a small DOHC V8 to fill market needs in global markets. You can play with numbers all you like but most buyers expect these engines. Even with the Pushrod engine they really need to market the advantages and give the Cadillac their own tunes and trim. I would love to see the engines dressed in Aluminum covers and even billet parts with stainless trim. At the very least powder coated vs the plastic covers. The owner of a Cadillac should be proud to open the hood, trunk and interior to show of his car and its quality. It was details like this that made it a standard others were judged by. Even my Fiero came powder coated red covers and intake with Stainless 12 point fasteners. Cadillac should get no less.

It is time for the UAW to learn a healthy GM would make and sell better products make more profit and hire more people to meet greater demand. They need to learn if they want more money they need to go back to school and get a different job. For Gods sake they are building cars not doing brain surgery.

While American may not sell big in some countries other they are very popular. My company sells a lot of part in areas of Europe and the Middle East that you would be suprised how well they love our cars. We have areas where people will send up shipping containers and will have us fill them full just in performance parts alone for American cars. England. Germany and France may be more nationalisitc but many of the other countries are a little more open to cars built here. Even England is not as nationalistic as they used to be since they really have few true British cars anymore. If GM builds future Cadillacs with a global vision they will do ok even in lower volumes to start. GM has to give them what they want not just cobble something that they might want. While the CTS is close GM has never really offered a luxury sports sedan that fits the global idea. The ATS I feel will be the first and the next CTS will be the next. I expect the XTS as a short lived car and only sold here as it has no reason to go anywhere but maybe China and the US markets. I think it is just a finished up project by previous admin. The people in charge today would have never approved it. JUst call it a gut feeling as it just seems out of place with the thinking of the other cars they are working on.

There were no other cars like it for a reason much like the Aztek. Most companies would have fired their stylist. Even Lutz called it homely. The preset car was just cleaned up but was still never what Lutz wanted. But he had to work with what he had. The W bodies were all a wreck when he arrived and he details some of what he did to fix them. The GTP was called the bucky beaver by many insiders. I knew one of the Impala brand managers and he told me some of the things they tired to fix but had little time and money. He was not even a fan. In most cases a mother will accept a homely child but in this case it was not to be.

Cadillac just need to get a few models started like the ATS and the next couple models and make them cars with a global appeal. Once these cars are out follow thw same path as they have with the Cruze and other models and slowly intro them tuned to each market. In the US market it is not as much a challange. In China it is becoming a growing challange there with the many choices they now have. In Europe the key is to just be profitable and get a solid distribution system in place. Sell in the areas that had strong sales move out from there. Nearly every new Chevy model is now going Global either under the Chevy name or Holden. Near every new Buick Buick is now going global either under Buick or Opel name. There is no reason to not expect the same with most new Cadillac models. It will go just as the other a model or two and then grow it with each new model.

Oh! God! My eyes are melting. These are the kind of people who name thier HHR and have Bud Vases. Now I do like the Surf Wagon deal on the right vehicle. My neighbor is just finishing up a 48 Willys Jeep Panel. It is lowered with a new updated lowered suspension complete with a Surf Board on the roof and a SBC under the hood. It is clean and originally from California. Not many panels with the original metal still left. His is tan and black with no wood. I saw an original HHR yesterday with the Pontiac like streaks on the rear of the fenders behind the tires. It looked ok. As for the truck it would not have hauled much but it would have been easy to do and I think it would have sold well. In fact it would have sold better than the SSR.