hyperv6

If the economy does not get better the cuts will become very important. GM needs to make the cuts in areas where they are not efficent and not cut development of technology, quality and design. The future depends on these and cuts here will send them back to where they just come from.

We just got out first ones here and they were only the Demo's. While this was never going to be a high volume car it would have sold much better if more were available. I know they would have sold a number of them here in Ohio if you could get one.

Yes They Will!

This is not a Cheers and Gears kind of car but there are plenty of people out there who don't like what we like that have the money to make this car profitable. GM needs to make cars for everyone not just the C&G crowd. Lets face it only a few people here would buy a Cruze but GM needs cars like this because there are more of them than there are of us. Like I said this is not a home run but it will make money and not harm Cadillac name in anyway.

Now there you go giving an informed opinion. You have to stop that or you might prove someone wrong! LOL!

Wow a vote down? Someone really has a love for them. We got a kick out of old guy the other day who had a newer caddy and he had the gangster white walls and 3 stick on vent ports per side. He was livin large! LOL! I have to support your statment here. Styling of this car stands on it own and the body flows to the point it needs no props. I would even leave the name off the side of the car as it will not be mistaken for a Focus. The ports had their day and like continental kits they had their time and still have their place on collector cars. They really mean little today with 4 cylinder engines and add nothing to the car. Most people that will have an interest in this car not only don't care about Vent ports but more than not really never cared about Buick in the past anyways. They need new buyers and customers who are not Buick people.

He ain't kidding! As someone who drives both often I can say he is on the money. The 2.0 Turbo is an engine you can't judge till you have driven one. I used to think the same way and had to learn I prejudged it wrong after my first drive of one. In fact my 2.0 Turbo has as a better torque band and than any GM engine I have ever owned. That includes all the BBC and SBC engines I have owned. It is as flat as a table top. The N Star can run well but it lacks the bottom end in any version I have driven. I have not driven the SC version so I can not comment on that one. In fact the 2.0 makes my GTP Series III feel much less powerful sinc it has a much narrower torque band and needs RPM to get anywhere. I have wished since owning this engine they would get it back into a RWD and it looks to be the case in the ATS. GM needs to market the hell out of these engines as even the GM faithfull dis them just because of what they think and not what they know. GM really has one of the best 4's in the world and few people know it. Note too the engine is not overboosted 20 PSI is just the new norm as the engine even at this level is not even close to the limits and it would take little to pass even those points up. GM has enough faith in it for 5 years 100,000 miles and I have already many pass that up with no issues. They don't even leak oil like the N Star.

The truth is the Eco Turbo is a very calm high power plant that has a flat torque cure and V8 like bottom end most versions have max torque from around 2100 RPM and holds it to 5300 RPM . High revs are not needed to keep the engine rolling along. On the NorthStars in our family that I have driven it has V8 power but you need to pull some RPM to really get to the sweet spot. Having many miles with both I find the frenetic fashion to be more true on the N Star. That is not a bad thing just different as the sound of a high rev pull in a V8 sounds good. I too love the body lines on this car. Just imagine a sedan or coupe with lines that look as good as this. I think the Buick grill will look better on this car than the Opel as the grill is the only weak area. But I would leave the JC Whitney ports off. Sometimes a MFG can out live their traditions. When you have a beautiful styled car that needs no add ons why F it up. It's like the Veyron, Nice car but they should have moved on with the grill as it just does not work.

GM wants it because they can cram things into the XTS that they can't at the Buick price. AWD, Magnaride and many other more advanced systems will be seen in this car. It appears you really don't remember how this platform can be outfitted with different wheel bases and tracks along with many other features that can set this car appart. This platform is very adaptable to many different things. GM just never had the money to advance them much after it first appeared with the lack of money. This is not like the W bodies were they just slapped on a few features and trim to make a new car.

I see no bad here as GM will still be offering RWD cars and a lot of the Holden work is not shared with NA anyways. If anything it may mean more RWD cars for NA.

The key here is to price this car under $28,000 dollars and I agree with an Auto. My 2.0 with only a few more HP and Torque gets great MPG and works fine with the old 4 speed auto. It will only get better mpg and work even better witht he new Auto. GM just could not fit it in the old Delta without major floor pan mods. The old Auto is my weak spot since they had to pull a little power at the shift points like they did in my GTP. On the new Strut again the old one GM has pretty well under control as it was a great improvment over any of my 3800 SC Pontiacs. The new HyperStrut will ony improve on what they have already done. My old SSEI would head for the ditch when you jumped on it and my present SS just has a little tug once in a while just to let you know it is FWD but It does not take a firm grip to keep it all where you want to go. I expect with this car they will slot it in in OPC mode as a Buick GS model petty much as seen here with only a different grill. I also expect it may get a different name here and in China. I also expect to see this as a Holden and Vauxhuall. I would guess this will come in around 3000-3100 pounds and be a solid 13 second car with a 0-60 in the low 5's at the very least. Price this right and it will the star at Buick.

So that would make the 5 or 7 a Rolls Cimarron. Damn badge engineering I always thought the Rolls felt so much like a cheap 5 or 7 series. Let just see what the XLS is once it hits the show or even the dealers and then pass judgment if GM has really done a good enough job that few would confuse it with the Lacrosse. So far they have been doing pretty well with making Chevys a Chevy and Buicks not a Chevy than they did in the past. With the price difference of the XTS I expect we will see things that they could not put into a Lacrosse at it's price point. If this was a full on performance sedan the FWD would be an issue but that is not this cars Job. GM has made it clear that this is to advance the ball from the town car class and take it to the next level. That is a goal this car should be able to do and turn a great profit while not soiling the Cadillac name. Not everyone wants a BMW M series or AMG and someone needs to make them a car. God knows Lincoln made a lot of money off of them and it was really the only thing that kept them alive. Now they are working without a net and it remains to be seen what the new direction is and if they can make up for the lack of the town car. It is a move that will pay off big or it will kill the division. With Cadillac they have all the bases covered with RWD and the new XTS. THere is little risk here and more than anything more profit. Lets just see what they have done and then pass judgement. Many of the last few GM cars have been dissed by many like the Cruze for being under powered and too expensive and they were proven wrong. GM has been making some pretty good calls here and look like for once they really understand the people who are buying cars for once vs forcing just what they want on them.

Well if you take note at what they are doing now you would have a good idea they are finally on the right track with most 2014/2015 cars and later. In the past there was only so much money to do a car platform and less per model. That is why we had Z28's that went like hell and turned like a demon but interiors that sucked and power windows broke. The F body manager said it was simple when you have only so much money you spend it on the go fast stuff in a performance car and then cut back on the rest. You then fix it over the next few years and get it right in the last couple years of it's life. Today GM has the money to do a car right from concept to of the production line. They no longer need to half ass things as they have the funding and they also can invest into 2 cars what they used to invest into 4 cars. The XTS is not a good example of where GM is going. This car was started and shelved during the Chapter 11 and at this point is is just to fill a need at Cadillac to buy time while they get the new post Chapter 11 cars in place. That still does not mean it will not be a good car. Now that is not to say that this can no and will not be a poorly done car. THere are many things GM can do to this platform to set it apart from the Lacrosse. I also see the same being done to the Impala. This car will be better riding, more quiet and offer technology that is no and will not be available on the Buick. Time to be smart and let them show you what the details of this car is before you critic it too much. To dis this car is like to say Kobe steak is shoe leather with out ever tasting it. Note the XTS is not the home run car and GM does note expect it to be. This is the car that gets a good solid single or double and makes money while keeping customers would would go else where for a more Luxury car that really care little for high performance. This car will be replace sooner than you think and the next car will be the one the pressure to produce will be on. The long and short of it is the XTS may not set the new agenda for Cadillac but it will do it no harm. At least till you have seen, touched and driven the car in person hold the Lacrosse comments as they could come back to haunt you!

I wonder if the ATS-V will weigh around 3450lbs.... I think that would be a realistic goal reguardless of the engine and will be intersting to see if they get close to it. If they are speaking of less mass then I would expect they have done some major gains if they are hinting at it already. Lutz had already put them to work to remove weight in the new post Chapter 11 cars, this is the first real new car post Chapter 11. I expect a lot of details that always get left behind due to the lack of funds will not be an issue here.

Multiple cars on the same platforms for 4 brands was one of the reasons GM went bankrupt. They still do it with trucks and SUVs. All they learned was to price the platform shared car higher so it doesn't directly compete. GM does however do a better job than Ford of making 2 cars on the same platform appear different. We all know why GM went bankrupt and 4 cars with the same identical equipment and engines with only base options levels and red lit dashed being the only difference. Today GM has learned to change the wheel based, wheel widths body lenths, level of sound proofing, Engine available in one model not available in others. The Verano vs Cruze is only a squint at the changes we will see. These cars had to be similar in thier origins as they were still too close the the BK. In the future while the platforms will share parts the cars will move more and more in different directions along with the price. Anyone here thinking the XTS to be just a more expenisve Lacrosse with be suprised at the difference between them. Again the difference will be greater in future cars. As for the Truck GM is still selling the same truck they did before the Chapter 11. As the new models come we will see more and more changes to seperate the domestic twins. I think the firs shot will be the Granite that will not be shared with Chevy. At this point GM is working on a good many things we have not been told of or even hinted at. We will see some rea bigl surprises 2015 and on. Judge not what on you know today as you have few of the facts.

I'd far rather have a loaded Regal turbo 4 for the same price. Ok? basically repeating how fours and sixes have made 8's obsolete....something like the GXP Bonne would have no point to it these days.... Ok I just was not sure how the Regal came in but I see now.

Correct. That is why a tarted up Buick pushing into a high price point I don't see being a success. Especially once the Epsilon2 Impala comes out, then the Buick is a dressed up Impala, the Cadillac a dressed up Buick. And people that want a good engine and performance, probably aren't looking at Lincoln in the first place. (or Buick for that matter). Cadillac still has some prestige with the blue hairs, so that gives them an advantage the Lincolns don't quite have. Not correct as GM has learned how to make cars on the same platform different enough that many people do not undersand it is even the same car. The Buick and Impala will be taylored for different buyers like the Verano has been vs the Cruze. Now that we don't have to make 5 different verisons of the same car it should be easier to make them different. At Ford they really did not try hard enough to make the cars different. Even the body shapes are very similar between divisions. I expext the XTS, Lacrosse and Impala will have very little in common as they will change many dimentions and even power plants that will be available. I expect options with each price class to be much different too. If you want all the cool toys you have to buy the more expensive car. Second you have yet to see where Buick is really going. The Larcrosse, Regal and Verano are all cars concieved under the pre chapter 11 GM. I expect you will see some major changes in their qulity and line up. They may just yet come with the equipment to compete head on with the lower end Audi. They already have made a better Lexus. The Blue hairs still like the Town Cars but like white walls they are gone.

I'd far rather have a loaded Regal turbo 4 for the same price. Ok?

My gut right now is no V8 in the ATS. I just don't feel it will happen, as limited at the CTS has been with the V8 as it is. The next CTS I still expect a V6 to be the main player but I could see a NA V8 option and then a Supercharged V. The Flag ship I feel will be something special. Either V8 supplied by an jointly supplied to GM or GM takes the new V8 and gets creative with Turbo's or something special. I really don't see them using an engine that is similar used in any other GM car. These are just gut calls here based on what little we have heard. With GM gone dark on info No matter what I do know for a fact we will see some suprises as GM has really been mixing things up and will be more proactive in bring new things to the table. It will be fun to see and debate.

I don't the engine marketing is the issue. Just when you get to that price range there are much better cars than a Tarted up Taurus Lincoln. Ford is now looking to invest in Lincoln now with new styling and the same driveline. If they can improve the cars they should do better but they need more than just FWD/AWD only. Lincoln is damages as they have used way to much of the Ford line. Their badge engineering has not been all that good. Some of their cars even rehashed still looks like the original Ford. Ford is bringing a lot of restyling soon and it will be interesting to see how it works on all their cars.

I would not hold my breath for it anytime soon but it would be interesting to see GM show what they can do with one. No one would pay the price for a Lacrosse with all the goods. It would leap into the CTS and BMW price range real quick.

I feel they could easily do it if they want too. Having known what GM can do with a old Cobalt and turning it into a SS I would say they could easily do this here. I like you really would not want to see it in production but to see it run the track in street trim and plaster some of the most hollowed cars would be fun to watch. I really would love to see it just to show what GM can really do. How about a Buick Lacrosse with a TTV6 in GS trim from GM Performance. That would even be more intersting.

Two things... (1) Nobody is saying don't offer a 4-cylinder or not to make cars more fuel efficient. The "Green" crowd, the Europeans and whoever else values small displacement for all the right or wrong reasons can buy a 4-pot ATS or a 6-pot one. They can buy it with all the amenities and luxurious trim offered. However, I'll tell you that the C63 buyer and the M3 buyer in general is NOT particularly interested in greeness or fuel economy. If they were, they won't buy these type of car to begin with! Therefore, BMW and M-B's retreat from the V8 powered luxury-sport-compact market is a good thing. It allows Cadillac the opportunity to have it to themselves. Having a V8 ATS-V has no detrimental effect on sales to the green or displacement conscious ATS shopper who won't even look at the ATS-V. (2) Small displacement does not equal better fuel economy. A reduced total parasitic loss equals better fuel economy. Reduced torque output from reduced displacement often forces higher average revolutions and increasing specific output by piling on the number of valvetrain elements also increase frictional losses. Adding a turbocharger reduces the thermal efficiency of the engine from reducing the static compression ratio. If you are not careful, you can easily end up with inferior fuel economy by going to a smaller displacement engine while at the same time adding cost, complexity and failure points. There are multiple examples I can give you on this... BMW M3 (4.0 DOHC V8) -- 414 hp / 295 lb-ft / 3708 lbs = 14 / 20 MPG Ford Taurus SHO (3.5 DOHC V6 Turbo) -- 365 hp / 350 b-ft / 4368 lbs = 17 / 25 MPG Camaro SS (6.2 Pushrod V8) -- 426 hp / 420 lb-ft / 3849 lbs = 16 / 24 MPG Ford Focus Automatic (2.0 DOHC I4) -- 160 hp / 145 lb-ft / 2907 lbs = 28 / 38 MPG Chevrolet Cruze Automatic (1.4 DOHC I4 Turbo) -- 138 hp / 148 lb-ft / 3102 lbs = 26 / 38 MPG The point is that we can expect a large displacement, pushrod V8 to be competitive if not superior in fuel economy compared to a smaller displacement bi-turbo V6 of a similar output. That the competition cannot or will not bring themselves to recognize and adopt the superiority of the pushrod engine is a choice they make to their own detriment. My point is they are going to offer the 4 cylinder regardless of what anyone says here. It is coming across the segment and no one is going to be left out accept for Rolls. But then again you never know. THey already are dressing up Mini's. The numbers you have posted here for MPG are great for now but in the near future they are all in trouble with these numbers. THis is why GM is investing so much into the Eco engines and even looking to 3 cylinder cars like the Spark. Many of these will go overseas at first but in time they will come here I am affraid. Who ever though GM would really try to sell a Spark here? As for all your info and numbers they are informitive and interesting but they are counter to where the industry is going and what most are doing. I don't dispute anything you say but I look and see the entire industry doing other wise. I really don't see it changing. The fact remains that until or if someone changes the regulations for mileage cars and engines will get smaller than many even imagine. Yes we will have some large engines and a few large cars but they will be limited and cost enough to pay the penalties they will be saddled with. While GM's Pushrod V8 is a marvel no one else in the industry is moving to it. They have chosen to do counter to what you advise. If you facts are accurate I wish they would follow your path but I really don't see them going that way. With heavy investment in small Tubo 4 engines and various 6 cylinders inline and V I expect these are the cards that we will be left with. When it is all said and done ten years from now I see GM only offering a V8 in the Camaro [only in a top level trim similar to the ZL1], Vette [as a option over a base V6 Turbo], Pick ups [less sold in half tons as they will start a push on V6's like Ford] and Cadillac but only in a CTS V, Flagship Omega [if It ever gets here] and what ever SUV they offer. At Ford they already have pretty much purged the V8 except for the trucks and Mustang. So please don't think I disagree with all you say I only am looking at the market and doing my own prediction on what I expect. Note this is not what I want just what I expect. The days of where the V8 was 80% of the market are already over and will never return. It is sad to say I do not expect my son to ever own a new V8 car unless he buys a top time Vette or Camaro when he is older. But you have to play the cards you are dealt and while the engines are smaller at least today I have as much or more power than even my 9 MPG BBC in just 2.0 Liters. As for your last sentence. I suspect while you have a lot of good info I suspect they just might have a little more, just call it a hunch. It may be due to the fac they are looking farther down the road than you are? I am not going to say you are wrong but I will have to give the nod to the companies spending 100's of millions of dollars/ I just have a hunch they have this figured out pretty good before they would commite to spending large amounts of capital to this. If it were just one company yes they could be wrong but can they all really be wrong and only you be correct? I understand where you are coming from and I just explained my way of thinking. I am not going to argue this point as we each are ok to think what we think. While you say what they should do I am only saying what I expect them to do and not that I think it is right or wrong. To be honest I wish they would think like you do!!!!!!

The GXP was the best Bonneville FWD they did but sales still point it was the wrong car at the wrong time. At that time just sticking a V8 into a FWD Pontiac for $40K was not a good idea but it is all Pontiac had to work with. They needed this to have been a G8 or other RWD car to have done very well. Cadillac and Buick could get away with this one but not Pontiac. Large FWD cars are difficult to sell as a performance car and near impossible once you get to that price point in the 90's. Once you got to the price of a GXP there were just a lot of better cars out there at the same or just a little more. This is why I really do not see a XTS V coming and Cadillac will leave the performance to the CTS and ATS. It may have a touring package or the like but no V. I find with many this car was a love it or hate it car styling wise. Pontiac styling had gone to the pile of melted gray plastic look and they loved to over due the buttons, emblems and vents. My GTP Comp G is an good example of that even in its name. More is not better it the more is not better to start. To be fair the Bonnie was made a lot better with time and it really was not a bad car. Lutz had to work with what he had and little budget. He did get them to clean this car up and improved the look it was given. But also with the G8 coming with the help of Lutz they were not going to do anything more than they had to. The one my buddy had was a nice car but electrical issues, oil leaks one Tranny and two starters in one year was not something he was happy with. Sad but the starter was easier to replace than to fix the oil leaks. He sent it on its way before it cost him any more money. Sad it was not even a high mileage car with any abuse. It must have been built on a Friday.

My buddy just sold his GXP. They made the for several years but hey really did not sell too well as the sticker neared $40K and the car was getting old. The GXP bumpers andf styling I feel was the best looking FWD Bonnie to date. They cleaned it up and lost the dated ribbed cladding. The suspension was better tuned on this too vs the SSEI. I drove both back to back and it just seemed like it had a better ride and handled just a little better. I still would take the G8 over this in a performance applications but this car was a very good drive even with the FWD.